Do you guys think we need to have Maat back?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Anyone played FF11 still remember their first lvl 70 challenge?
I starts to think he may be a good feature to help new players to fully understand their first FF14 job.

NO. Oh goddess no... I still have nightmares of the level 70 WAR fight. Keep him in Ru'lude Gardens where he belongs.

Also his fights did nothing to help you 'understand' your Job, they always required some stupid gimmick to pass (not helped that he was fundamentally a MNK who just subbed whatever Job you were challenging him as, so MNK was in fact the most difficult to face him as - especially when he used Hundred Fists and pummeled you into submission). There is a reason why his cap was nicknamed 'the No-Life Hat'.

I'm glad such nonsense is not in FFXIV and that level cap increases are automatic (as long as you have bought and registered the relevant expansion pack).

Limit breaker I love those fights. Is he not related to the adventurer that unlocked ARR relics? Lionheart or something.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I'm glad such nonsense is not in FFXIV and that level cap increases are automatic (as long as you have bought and registered the relevant expansion pack).

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I thought people wants the challenge.
He is not only the challenge, he for most of time is a roadblock.

Id love Maat to be back, but tbh Id love to see Shantotto come back to take us to an instance for Windurst or a Dynamis-Windurst. ^^

How would one go about making a proficiency trial in this day and age of MMOs though is the question. Maat was a terrific roadblock to be sure but as Enkidoh said, he was more about a job-related gimmick than actual skill (thf maat 3 tries to steal from him whoopee). And let's be brutally honest, if anything remotely difficult was added that would gate players from level cap there would be mass hysteria here.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

How would one go about making a proficiency trial in this day and age of MMOs though is the question. Maat was a terrific roadblock to be sure but as Enkidoh said, he was more about a job-related gimmick than actual skill (thf maat 3 tries to steal from him whoopee). And let's be brutally honest, if anything remotely difficult was added that would gate players from level cap there would be mass hysteria here.

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You haven't try lvl 70 Ranger with him then, it is duel or die.
He certainly would undergoes mechanic change if he is back to FF14.
A redesign of a very challenge mirror fight.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You haven't try lvl 70 Ranger with him then, it is duel or die.
He certainly would undergoes mechanic change if he is back to FF14.
A redesign of a very challenge mirror fight.

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I heard nightmares about rdm's maat fight but if I remember right the strategy for most jobs was a bit the same right? Opo-opo necklace, sleep pots, two hour, pray lol

Only did about three of his fights not including thf's before he became unsync'd content in the current XI so I imagine my memories could be skewed. I would love a tough fight to prove class mastery but again that would cause so much crying on here I can hear it already

Also remember you had to farm the testimony for you job to do the fight. For the longest time they were a one and done deal. So if you lost the fight you had to go farm another one.

It was a good challenge back then. FFXI was strewn with struggles and it made that game feel a lot more real and worth it. Greater sense of community too, because many times you'd have to have a few friends help you get the items you needed for the fight. I remember feeling so much dread back then when I had to fight Maat the first time. I'm sure many didn't appreciate these challenges at the time, but looking back I yearn for challenges like this now. I loved them.

I remember doing the WHM one with an earth staff using vile elixirs before they added Repose. (You could cheese it by just sleeping him after that.)

I don't think their game design philosophy supports it though. Some of the class quests they could probably tune to be pretty hard, but if you die enough times they just give you echo and you already have brilliant conviction for some of them by default (scaling regen that heals for more the lower your hp is). Not to mention the jump potions will eventually just let you bypass it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You haven't try lvl 70 Ranger with him then, it is duel or die.
He certainly would undergoes mechanic change if he is back to FF14.
A redesign of a very challenge mirror fight.

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lol.. ranger was not hard
blink/sleep tp > use abilities > sidewinder/slug> tp wing > sidewinder/slug> release barrage > eagle eye shot (if necessary, i/e still alive after barrage)

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

I heard nightmares about rdm's maat fight but if I remember right the strategy for most jobs was a bit the same right? Opo-opo necklace, sleep pots, two hour, pray lol

Only did about three of his fights not including thf's before he became unsync'd content in the current XI so I imagine my memories could be skewed. I would love a tough fight to prove class mastery but again that would cause so much crying on here I can hear it already

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Most maat fights where not hard if you knew what to do, most melee was easy being a generic blink band > sleep for tp > >buffs> ws > tp wing > ws (most benefited from self sc) use 2 hr/ other abilities.

RDM maat was hard in a sense people where not in the right mindset to beat it. Most people, esp when FFXI was newer, played rdm as a melee /caster hybrid, and you can't really beat maat like that unless you had some insane setup most people wouldn't have. Typically you needed sleep and nuke, something out of most people's comfort zone/ mentality.

With that said, I think FFXIV could use the idea from it, having some kind of trial of "You know your basics, can queue for expert now" or something of the sort. The style of FFXI's maat would not even do that, as said it was easy if you prepared correctly.

The blue mage version of maat was awesome, but yeah what others said people would be non-stop crying "too hard plz nerf dis". Can't have challenging content in xiv because of that crowd.

Well, there isn't any one character like Maat, but there's certainly break point challenges as you go that you need to complete to get all your class's abilities. Some are more difficult than others, sure. And yes, I'm sure some of you perfect players that have never hit a wrong button ever somehow mastered every single one on your very first try because they were so easy and everyone should just git gud.

For the rest of us scrubs, the breaks were kind of nice content even if it was a strange balance between dodge\kite\nuke for some of them.

XI limit breaks were interesting content. Rdm was the most challenging and I remember players spending weeks preparing by fighting Ruby Quadav in Beaudeax. That was more of a sleep\nuke strategy and the challenge was landing sleep on Maat. Folks would go in naked and put gear on later, have a stash of specific potions to be used at specific times - it was a real event in and of itself.

Could it work here? My gut says no, because there really two kinds of players here now:

1. New players that are used to other methodology and wouldn't appreciate performing so much work for one incremental increase
2. Old players that actually already did that and maybe would appreciate it more, but don't particularly want to revisit XI event-for-event

SE is in a tough juggling spot here and I don't envy them this position. No matter what they've introduced, it seems like one half or the other is out for blood.

I liked the challenge of the level cap quest but they don't have a place in ffxiv, with job quest being a challenge for some.

My 70 mnk quest still isn't done but that's because most of my gear is 60.

If I had 70 weapons for mnk I'm sure I could finish it.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I liked the challenge of the level cap quest but they don't have a place in ffxiv, with job quest being a challenge for some.

My 70 mnk quest still isn't done but that's because most of my gear is 60.

If I had 70 weapons for mnk I'm sure I could finish it.

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Just a note - MNK is the job I was talking about with the weird balance there. There was at least one quest in that chain that I couldn't see any way to complete it that didn't involve kiting, and my gear was level-appropriate. Some of the design is strange for these quests. When all else fails, try kiting.

I wouldn't have it gate a level cap on this game however if it offered a job related reward + something else if you cleared all of them I would be all for it. Granted the only reason I wouldn't have it gate level progression on this game is just because I don't want to see the flood of people crying over it because it actually requires effort and they cant have other people carry them through it. Example being one of the recent MSQs.

I'll echo what other people already say. I'd like to have him here, but in order to honor his presence in XIV, they need to make him somewhat difficult. Difficulty and XIV don't mix well together outside of Savage, Ultimate and Ex trials, specially if you're going to tie him to a crucial path of progression. The rants will be relentless. Let's not forget that it's because of these rants that they nerfed Steps of Faith (And Pharos Sirius, but there was more to it).

It would be nice to introduce him as a nod to the fans in a future cross-over event, like they did with Shantotto and Iroha.

Sounds like the thing WoW had in MoP or WoD. You needed at least a Silver to be able to queue for heroics, and what happened? Either people couldn't do it, or the ones who did STILL didn't know how to play their class.

Roadblocking does not work, all it means is that people will be permanently barred from content or people will barely pass it and you will still find yourself in groups with these people in the end.

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Originally Posted by Narangerel

Sounds like the thing WoW had in MoP or WoD. You needed at least a Silver to be able to queue for heroics, and what happened? Either people couldn't do it, or the ones who did STILL didn't know how to play their class.

Roadblocking does not work, all it means is that people will be permanently barred from content or people will barely pass it and you will still find yourself in groups with these people in the end.

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It would gives them initiate to do some re-search about their job at least.
It is better than not doing anything, i think

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

It would gives then initiate to do some re-search about their job at least.
It is better than not doing anything, i think

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if it is done right sure, but if say SE copies ffxi maat and put it in ffxiv it would be outright useless because maat really did not teach those how to play better. It was more about gimmicky work arounds more then knowing how to really play your job.

if done wrong, all you are doing is making people unsub.

Mostly it was reading a walkthrough, doing a lot of farming for proper gear, medicines, and potions, and then trying to do the single strategy for your job that would beat him while hoping you had leveled one of the easier jobs to take him as, as well as RNG was on your side. It wasn't a fun experience, and I don't think many people did it more than once. I don't think it would work here. Though it would be utterly hilarious if we got him as a hero in sigmascape, especially savage.

The lead up to fighting Maat was the most difficult. Farming your testimony, having the needed items (it’s been so long, but you needed some sleeping potions and an item that allowed you to build tp while asleep). Having an Icarus Wing, having potions, etc... all to Zerg him down in less than thirty seconds. Yes, some jobs were more strategic than others (having poison potions so he couldn’t sleep you is an example), but otherwise it was a one strategy to win fight. However, I would like to have him in the game, for nostalgic sake :’^)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

NO. Oh goddess no... I still have nightmares of the level 70 WAR fight. Keep him in Ru'lude Gardens where he belongs.

Also his fights did nothing to help you 'understand' your Job, they always required some stupid gimmick to pass (not helped that he was fundamentally a MNK who just subbed whatever Job you were challenging him as, so MNK was in fact the most difficult to face him as - especially when he used Hundred Fists and pummeled you into submission).

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Most difficult fight was considered to be RDM. Hundred Fists worked great against him on MNK to be fair, with Counterstance up.

I'd love to see him back if only to destroy those "it's only a leveling dungeon" people.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

There is a reason why his cap was nicknamed 'the No-Life Hat'.

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It was called the "no-life hat" because you had to have every job pre-WOTG at lv66+, so you could challenge him, not because of the fight itself.

Maat would make these forums cry like wee babes.


Would be entertaining at least.

I don't miss farming testimonies and relying on gear and RNG to hope to God that my Sleep would land so that I wouldn't die in 2-3 hits.
Cleared it on RDM years ago and while it was exhilarating and a huge sense of accomplishment, I wouldn't have time to tackle it again at this stage of life.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

It would gives them initiate to do some re-search about their job at least.
It is better than not doing anything, i think

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It won't. People who do not want to get better will not get better. In fact, I would predict the end result would them removing it as a requirement for experts halfway through the expansion or removing full on next expansion at the latest. Roadblocking is just bad all around. If you want to bring it in as a cool challenge for a neat reward, by all means, but do not use it as a wall.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Anyone played FF11 still remember their first lvl 70 challenge?
I starts to think he may be a good feature to help new players to fully understand their first FF14 job.

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Yes. Oh my goodness yes.

I'd also love to see roadblocks before new dungeons or the like that require players be exposed to basic mechanics prior to new content. In fact, make them repeatable on-demand. It's really frustrating sometimes to struggle with a dungeon / raid mechanic, and not be able to practice without subjecting other people to your learning curve.

From someone who doesn't know who maat is, why not bring him in to be the npc in charge of the next teir of the hall of novice. Have him teach more of the complex mechanics players would see in hard/expert/raids/savage.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

Let's not forget that it's because of these rants that they nerfed Steps of Faith (And Pharos Sirius, but there was more to it).

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To be fair, if SE weren't going to add a "Vote Restart" feature to Steps of Faith, a nerf was the next 'best' thing they could do (missing one or two dragon killers and having low DPS pretty much required you to sit and wait for the dragon to reach the end). I'm still salty about Pharos Sirius 2.1, though. That dungeon was fine the way it was :(

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

I heard nightmares about rdm's maat fight but if I remember right the strategy for most jobs was a bit the same right? Opo-opo necklace, sleep pots, two hour, pray lol

Only did about three of his fights not including thf's before he became unsync'd content in the current XI so I imagine my memories could be skewed. I would love a tough fight to prove class mastery but again that would cause so much crying on here I can hear it already

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WHM was very different, you COULD defeat him... or the easier path....out cure him/survive 5 minutes. I missed the cut off by 5 seconds my first time...if only I had 2-hour'd...

Maat would be an interesting form of optional content, and would gladly welcome it.

Yes please. I'd love also to have a similar accomplishment to Maat's Cap

I really wouldn't mind some genuinely tough optional solo fights that require using all of your job's tools to the fullest and do high DPS.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Anyone played FF11 still remember their first lvl 70 challenge?
I starts to think he may be a good feature to help new players to fully understand their first FF14 job.

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That's the purpose of the level 70 job fights. The SCH fight required me to keep 2 NPCs alive, while the DRK quest required me to tank. If you want more of that, rather than ask for someone like Maat, let us redo the fights at varying difficulties.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Yes. Oh my goodness yes.

I'd also love to see roadblocks before new dungeons or the like that require players be exposed to basic mechanics prior to new content. In fact, make them repeatable on-demand. It's really frustrating sometimes to struggle with a dungeon / raid mechanic, and not be able to practice without subjecting other people to your learning curve.

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Players are exposed to core mechanics as they level through the various dungeons and raids. That's a core design philosophy of the game, which is to add new mechanics slowly, give people a chance to learn what they mean, and then add those mechanics (and variations thereof) to more challenging content. A few days ago, I had to remind people to stack up for Ahk Morn in The Final Steps of Faith, and despite the marker clearly indicating that, we still wiped because people didn't listen. Additional roadblocks won't solve that problem. That's more people paying attention and communicating, which is how the group should function. If the group is not willing to help you learn mechanics, roadblocks won't help. It's more a community mindset of rushing through the dungeons and one shotting them. People need to remember that dying is not a bad thing.

Maat was not a good roadblock, either. Imagine that to be allowed to do any ex primals or savage, you had to first do a solo fight which required a couple million gil in consumables. The fight varies wildly based on your main, with some being easier and some being much harder. There's no straight up fighting either, you need to use gimmicks to buy yourself enough time for things to come off cooldown, and there's a heavy RNG component in whether or not his attacks critical, or your buffs stick to him or not. Pretty much you need to strictly follow a solo walkthrough and hope everything lines up, because there is no compensating for any mistakes.

By the time you got to him, you were invested enough in the game to hammer at him, but he'd be a huge wall in a modern game like this. FFXI was a game where you might spend weeks farming a single piece of bis gear if not months; people tolerated a lot more there, and that wasn't always good. Just getting the ninja abilities utsusemi was equal to a relic step here.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Anyone played FF11 still remember their first lvl 70 challenge?
I starts to think he may be a good feature to help new players to fully understand their first FF14 job.

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Maat on RDM was ridiculously hard. I would love to see him in Eorzea

I like the idea, though I feel that this game's average player couldn't handle it without being severely dumbed down.

hell ya bring maat back! and this guy Wrathare
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Wrathare