Why are people calling the NM train "parasitic"?

Like seriously. Why are people hating on the Fate train? Its literally people helping one another in leveling up. Why are people going elitist on this and calling lower leveled players parasites?

The mobs needed to spawn NMs can be killed while the NM is on cd and yet you see low levels hanging around high level NMs instead of prepping low level NMs for the next spawn. Why do you think that is?

Because people get mad™ that people figured out the easiest way to level was just to stand near the high levels and afk.

Don't blame the player, blame the developer for making it absolute balls to level any other way.

I tried to do it the "intended" way today by getting some similarly low-level people together to take on monsters around our capability. EXP bar barely budged after grinding mobs and participating in an on-level NM kill (got silver even though I was tanking the NM for most of the fight, go figure!). That took about 90 minutes.

I tired to "leech" by following around as a raise bot in a NM fate train group and got two levels in an hour. I didn't feel good about it, but hey- it was way more effective than the other way.

It is parasitic. You stand around hoping you don't get hit by stuff and let people do the hard work and get rewarded for your lack of effort. But it's the safest and most efficient way of leveling in that place. Especially since there are fewer and fewer lowbies and more and more people grinding at or near 20.

I don't personally care that people afk, especially the lowbies. They're going to do like 50 damage to any mob more than a couple of levels above them and get one shot by everything. Sure they could go split off and try to spawn lower level NM's, but really the easiest and safest way to level up is to just follow the train. Blaming them is pointless and does nothing about the actual problem which is the way Eureka was designed.

It’s generally in reference with how the content was designed. With how the elemental level system in place works, low levelled players can barely make a dent in enemies that are too far ahead of their level. We’re talking about damage in the tens and hundreds compared to someone appropriately levelled that can do more than ten to a hundred times their damage. This is essentially what it boils down to when the term is referenced.

Players who are severely underlevelled can’t really do anything to enemies in higher levelled areas, so it’s better to passively wait in the immediately area to mitigate risk of the person tanking dying and the enemy running towards you and the group. Doesn’t excuse those people who are legit lazy and don’t want to contribute when they should, but eh, what can you do? @_@

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Because people get mad™ that people figured out the easiest way to level was just to stand near the high levels and afk.

Don't blame the player, blame the developer for making it absolute balls to level any other way.

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Oh they didn't do that when they were leveing right? And everyone afk's.... NO ONE is killing MONSTERS for 3 hours straight. In addition it's hard to paricipate sometimes as a caster when the monster is dead before your cast ends. I have 3 toons at 20 and I can say it's really not much of an issue from what I can see other than the occasional comment about afk'ers.

I tried to be "more efficient" during my initial visits this week. I'm just trying to get Amenos crystals at this point. Instead of following the train I went and solo popped some of the lower level NMs near where the train already was.

This always resulted in me missing the NM that the train was at, while the train had plenty of time to get to the NM I solo popped. Even when I popped Bombadeel when the train was at Callisto, I didn't have enough time to get around the rocks to the FATE before it died.


So yah, I can understand why ppl don't want to work on popping other things and get too far away from the train now.

Doesn’t bother me one bit if they’re low level, I did my work the first 3 days and people afking doesn’t take it away from me.

What bothers the crap out of me is people splitting the train, being indecisive, spawning a NM on the opposite side of the map because nobody can agree on where to go, and half the instance not getting credit because it melts in 15 seconds. I’m hoping the magicite level sync hotfix coming fixes that.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh they didn't do that when they were leveing right? And everyone afk's.... NO ONE is killing MONSTERS for 3 hours straight. In addition it's hard to paricipate sometimes as a caster when the monster is dead before your cast ends. I have 3 toons at 20 and I can say it's really not much of an issue from what I can see other than the occasional comment about afk'ers.

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It's not a problem. I never said it was. But some people do get super mad about people afking even though they couldn't do anything if they wanted to. I tend to play healer/caster as well and I don't do jack to anything before it's dead, so I don't even try besides the occasional Fleche and picking up people who died.

I am all for afking. You go little afk buddies.

It's not a parasitic relationship between high levels and low levels in Eureka, it's a symbiotic one. If the low level players went off in their own separate train to spawn low level fates, then the high level players would very possibly miss out on the rewards from them since there's a very good chance they wouldn't get there in enough time before it died or they could get gold.

If there were enough fates to support always having one available for different level brackets, then there'd be less reason to want to kill every possible fate regardless of your own level. But the current rate of fate pop means that one big train for all is the best way to do it from both the high level and low level player's perspective, even if all the low level players do on the high level content is stand there or occasionally raise.

I can see how it would be annoying if things are taking a while to die and 80% of the instance is AFK. But if they're dying really fast in 1-3 hits, and people are usually waiting for spawns it's whatever. Low levels are just going to get one shot anyways doing tickle damage per hit while someone at level or over is going to be doing an obscene amount of damage per GCD in comparison.

When people say to split the groups so low levels can spawn the weaker NMs, the NMs get obliterated before the other group(s) can get back to it. So yeah, no one is going to bother doing that on NA/EU.

I don't care about the NM train or people afk'ing in town, I do care that asshats think they're so entitled and pull so damn early just so people don't even get a chance to make it to the NM before it's killed.

I don't care if a person is low level and follows the train doing nothing. They can't do any damage anyway and it is the most effective way to level up. It's also the safest. I died in a nm the train was at and instantly had 4 people cast a res on me all at the exact same moment.

I see a lot of people, including myself as I've been level 20 for awhile, hang around certain points as the train moves to res anyone who dies. Tanks grab agro on things to protect the low levels in the train as it goes. Everyone is helping out, and it's only a small few that complain in my experience.

Overall I like what I see. The community is banding together to get stuff done. High levels protect low levels, no one left behind. That's how it should be. Sure you get people who complain about low levels being around but you always get a few intolerant people everywhere you go. A few even drag monsters to kill the players, report them. GM's will deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I don't care if a person is low level and follows the train doing nothing. They can't do any damage anyway and it is the most effective way to level up.

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Sort of. If a low level player (example, level 4) is in a party that gets a Gold Rank on Pazuzu, they're only going to get ~2000exp, which is less than what they'd get if they fought Callisto or the Anemos Emperor. It's much better for low level players to band together and spawn the low level NM's than to hang around high level players and fighting high level NM's. Hanging around high level players who focus on the high level NM's first before going down the list will take significantly longer for the low level player to level up.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Sort of. If a low level player (example, level 4) is in a party that gets a Gold Rank on Pazuzu, they're only going to get ~2000exp, which is less than what they'd get if they fought Callisto or the Anemos Emperor. It's much better for low level players to band together and spawn the low level NM's than to hang around high level players and fighting high level NM's. Hanging around high level players who focus on the high level NM's first before going down the list will take significantly longer for the low level player to level up.

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Its a net loss if they just focus on the low levels and ignore the high levels, rather than doing both. The train is going to spawn and zerg the low level NMs regardless. Better for the low levels to get both the high and low level NM exp then just the low levels and then being left with nothing when they're all gone.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Sort of. If a low level player (example, level 4) is in a party that gets a Gold Rank on Pazuzu, they're only going to get ~2000exp, which is less than what they'd get if they fought Callisto or the Anemos Emperor. It's much better for low level players to band together and spawn the low level NM's than to hang around high level players and fighting high level NM's. Hanging around high level players who focus on the high level NM's first before going down the list will take significantly longer for the low level player to level up.

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I had at least 3 Pazuzu kills before I was even 19. You may be right but it doesn't hurt to get experience with the boss mechanics earlier. Though at the same time, as someone else posted, you can miss a ton of nms by not being with the train.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I had at least 3 Pazuzu kills before I was even 19. You may be right but it doesn't hurt to get experience with the boss mechanics earlier. Though at the same time, as someone else posted, you can miss a ton of nms by not being with the train.

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Exactly, the train focuses on which NMs are ready to spawn ( and to a degree how easy it is to spawn which is why certain high level NMs are never bothered with). All those low level NMs are going to be spawned and zerged by the train as their timers are ready. Its much better for a low level to follow the train to whatever NM its going to as NMs in their level range will be zerged as their timers are ready plus they'll get the exp from the high level NMs. You could argue they are losing out on the exp from the mobs used to spawn it, but unless they're grinding the mobs and building chains continually for longer than it would take to satisfy the spawning it isn't efficient for your time.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The mobs needed to spawn NMs can be killed while the NM is on cd and yet you see low levels hanging around high level NMs instead of prepping low level NMs for the next spawn. Why do you think that is?

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Yet when someone calls out the level 20s sitting on their mounts while level 16-18s do all the leg work for Hazmat/Fafnir/Poly/Strider we are called toxic...why do you think that is?

I don't think it's parasitic at all. People are working together (mostly) in order to spawn NMs in a certain order. Yeah, some people will leech, but there's no real point in getting mad about it. No matter how much salt you throw their way, leechers gonna leech. Just ignore them and keep killing things.

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Because people get mad™ that people figured out the easiest way to level was just to stand near the high levels and afk.

Don't blame the player, blame the developer for making it absolute balls to level any other way.

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Nailed it.

I was kicked from a party once presumably for doing this, but I don't know what I was expected to do when nobody was dying (res mage) and the mobs we were at were 15 levels over me so I was doing less than a hundred damage per hit...

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I had at least 3 Pazuzu kills before I was even 19. You may be right but it doesn't hurt to get experience with the boss mechanics earlier. Though at the same time, as someone else posted, you can miss a ton of nms by not being with the train.

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Which unfortunately only happens because people instantly attack the NM the second it appears, rather than wait for people to show up. I'm still disappointed at the SMN who instantly attacked the wind NM I spawned alone.
That said, the only NM's I really care about not wanting to miss (now that I'm level 20) are those that are level 10+. Anything below I can deal with missing. Especially Sabotender Corrido. Really don't care if I miss that one.

Personally, I still think it would be best for low level players to focus on spawning/fighting the low level NM's on their own. If a high level player complains about missing Sabotender Corrido, then they need to get off their high horse (especially if they can use a mount).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Which unfortunately only happens because people instantly attack the NM the second it appears, rather than wait for people to show up. I'm still disappointed at the SMN who instantly attacked the wind NM I spawned alone.
That said, the only NM's I really care about not wanting to miss (now that I'm level 20) are those that are level 10+. Anything below I can deal with missing. Especially Sabotender Corrido. Really don't care if I miss that one.

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If the train is there, it's going to get pulled. There's always going to be that 1 person. This is why people either need to stay close to the train and/or spawn area, or join the train itself. Otherwise, good luck.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Which unfortunately only happens because people instantly attack the NM the second it appears, rather than wait for people to show up. I'm still disappointed at the SMN who instantly attacked the wind NM I spawned alone.
That said, the only NM's I really care about not wanting to miss (now that I'm level 20) are those that are level 10+. Anything below I can deal with missing. Especially Sabotender Corrido. Really don't care if I miss that one.

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Most NM's spawn right on top of the group pulling them instantly.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Personally, I still think it would be best for low level players to focus on spawning/fighting the low level NM's on their own. If a high level player complains about missing Sabotender Corrido, then they need to get off their high horse (especially if they can use a mount).

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Let's imagine everyone goes off on their own perfect spots and grind out the low level NMs. They've spawned the ones 1-7. Now what are they supposed to do? They won't be up again for probably another hour.

par·a·site
ˈperəˌsīt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites

an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.
derogatory
a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

..I mean.. they're not wrong? But it's not the lowbies fault really. The NM Zerg train IS killing eureka but the only fault falls in the design NOT the people who figured out how to do it. The train is leeching the lifeblood of eureka out (a consistent spread of levels) and leaving nothing but a husk of pazuzu seekers and stranded newbies.

The only times I've really seen people called out for AFKing are when a majority of the players lv 17+ are sitting around on mounts while 12 or so people are actually killing things to make the NM pop... on every NM the train goes to.

I get annoyed by slackers when they aren't doing anything despite being leveled enough to cause significant damage plus the mobs are taking so long to die that the active players can't even keep up with the respawns.

As far the lowbies go, I don't care as long as they aren't stupid and constantly pulling unwanted enemies into the mix because of their larger aggro radius. People don't seem to grasp how much grief you can spare others by just letting yourself die and resetting the mob instead of expecting people to save you.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

par·a·site
ˈperəˌsīt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites

an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.
derogatory
a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

..I mean.. they're not wrong?.

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You missed the at the hosts expense part in that. There's nothing about the low level presence there that harms the high level players at all. It's not parasitic.

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You missed the at the hosts expense part in that. There's nothing about the low level presence there that harms the high level players at all. It's not parasitic.

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More people in the instance apparently makes NMs require more kills to spawn, so there's that. Not sure if the NM's health pool gets adjusted similarly to boot.

Just because something is being parasitic doesn't mean it has to be tearing out huge chunks of your flesh or anything.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

More people in the instance apparently makes NMs require more kills to spawn, so there's that.

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I've never read or seen discussions on this or hinting at this, but even if it were true using that line of argument would mean that all players are parasitic.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

More people in the instance apparently makes NMs require more kills to spawn, so there's that. Not sure if the NM's health pool gets adjusted similarly to boot.

Just because something is being parasitic doesn't mean it has to be tearing out huge chunks of your flesh or anything.

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Their HP scales based on the number of people in the instance. Guessing they didn't quite factor the elemental wheel into it though, that adds damage to everyone's attacks making them drop even quicker. As far as the number of mobs required for a spawn, I have yet to see any sort of evidence that would suggest it scales similarly. Seems to be entirely random, within reason. I was in an instance with 60 people and dropping as we were trying to spawn Teles a couple weeks ago. Took just as long as any other does compared to a full or mostly full instance. By the time it spawned I think there was like, 30-40 people left.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Like seriously. Why are people hating on the Fate train? Its literally people helping one another in leveling up. Why are people going elitist on this and calling lower leveled players parasites?

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lol why are you bent about it being called that? That comparison fits perfectly.

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(of an organism) living as a parasite.
"mistletoe is parasitic on trees"

resulting from infestation by a parasite.
"mortality from parasitic diseases"
derogatory
habitually relying on or exploiting others.

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It is exactly what is going on, at level 1+ I knew I was being this, have no choice in the matter, how is it elitist to describe something that is going on?

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

You missed the at the hosts expense part in that. There's nothing about the low level presence there that harms the high level players at all. It's not parasitic.

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that is not what she is saying, missed the point completely.
or if we look up parasite:

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par·a·site
ˈperəˌsīt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites

an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.
derogatory
a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

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You never heard of people call babies and children parasites cuz they cant give anything in return? it fits the situation perfectly.

Why are people calling the NM train "parasitic"?
Because that is what is going on.

I personally never seen people call the NM train parasitic, but this thread gave me a laugh since it is so fitting to the situation.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I don't personally care that people afk, especially the lowbies. They're going to do like 50 damage to any mob more than a couple of levels above them and get one shot by everything. Sure they could go split off and try to spawn lower level NM's, but really the easiest and safest way to level up is to just follow the train. Blaming them is pointless and does nothing about the actual problem which is the way Eureka was designed.

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I have nothing against what you said as I agree with it, but I wanted to add that there is a strong common misconception at least in regards to Wraiths. A level 19 player will do about 400-1300 damage (depending on job) to wraith per attack. A level 10 player will do about 50-400 damage per attack. Albeit not much, it does stack to kill these things much faster since the difference on at least this one particular monster is not that different. I only say this because if you have 20 level ten players attacking the same mob with 300 damage each, that's 6000 damage combined per GCD. The creature will melt with the more bodies on it no matter how inferior their dps may be from a higher level player.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

You missed the at the hosts expense part in that. There's nothing about the low level presence there that harms the high level players at all. It's not parasitic.

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The host being the content, which is becoming more and more hostile to everyone by the day.
One might also argue that newbies running in trailing mobs is also to the higher levels detriment since synching to get credit makes you vulnerable.
Also expense implies you're spending effort. It doesn't say increasing debt.

I'm not saying newbies deserve hate, or higher levels are right. just it fits.

The reason for afk’ers is that if they looked away from Netflix at the game for longer than the duration of a FATE they’d realise Eureka is just sheer boredom in video game form.

The train isn’t parasitic, it’s just mind-numbing. It’s no wonder people from both sides are constantly irritable, hitting HP Piñatas to spawn a bigger HP Piñata for hours on end with the same attacks is enough to drive anyone to madness.

There would need to be life in Eureka for a parasite to exist there. All I see when I go in are punching bags that let you try out bigger punching bags, but without a battle system that’s interesting enough to make me want to punch things in the first place. Even the rewards are dull; weapons/armour we already had but now they have a faint coloured glow and can be dyed. Or you could just continue logging in once a week and get something stronger by capping tomes / doing savage. Can’t wait for next Eureka patch in 4 months time when my glow will go from faint to obtrusive, it’ll be well worth the wait.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The host being the content, which is becoming more and more hostile to everyone by the day.
One might also argue that newbies running in trailing mobs is also to the higher levels detriment since synching to get credit makes you vulnerable.

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na you are just using the wrong definition and reading too much into it:

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a person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

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that's all, its exactly what is happening, low level players where being a parasite or leech, can't give any return

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Let's imagine everyone goes off on their own perfect spots and grind out the low level NMs. They've spawned the ones 1-7. Now what are they supposed to do? They won't be up again for probably another hour.

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I don't quite understand what you're implying. If level 1-7 NM's are spawned first, then that's fantastic for the low level players. More experience, potentially quicker to level up and be ready for a little higher NM's... like, if low level players are unwilling to get off the train, then why not have the train start from the bottom and then go up (Pazuzu being the exception, but then a low level player shouldn't even be in a Pazuzu spawning party).

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I've never read or seen discussions on this or hinting at this, but even if it were true using that line of argument would mean that all players are parasitic.

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Not really, if they're actually contributing to the kills in a meaningful way.

All these issues about Fate Train, afk'ers, low levels hanging round - are not the fault of the players.

Eureka content design is the issue. People could see this was going to happen from day one - so why didn't SE?