Job Crystals for Squadron Members?

Has there ever been anything said about letting squad members have jobs? I've been wanting to use a couple of the post ARR jobs as members since it's been out (looking at MCH and SAM in particular). It would also be nice to have more healers than just CNJ.

I wouldn't mind having to level some of the jobs like with retainers if needed; just as long as the ability is there

IIRC, only the Padjal are white mages. The warrior of light was specially chosen to become a white mage. So unless SE is willing to break lore (do they have a history of that? Idk.) job crystals probably won’t happen.

Perhaps they could allow for "Subjobs" so while not fully powerful versions of the real jobs, the squadrons learn some of the more "global" techniques of say Scholar, Astrologian, etc, without needing a job stone. But the signature moves (like say Benediction for White Mage, not sure what else you'd add for that and other jobs), would not be learnable. So like the classes, they'd be a fairly barebones version. That could potentially be done without breaking lore I guess.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

IIRC, only the Padjal are white mages. The warrior of light was specially chosen to become a white mage. So unless SE is willing to break lore (do they have a history of that? Idk.) job crystals probably won’t happen.

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Didn't they classified HW Y'shtola as WHM? Outside of the, Padjal no only white mage but also just regular conjure so who know. Such as Conjure Guild Master.
Outside of the, they where only a few WAR in Eorzea... Now apparently they entire Tribe of them in Azim Steppe.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Didn't they classified HW Y'shtola as WHM? Outside of the, Padjal no only white mage but also just regular conjure so who know. Such as Conjure Guild Master.

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No, she's a CNJ who just happens also to be Sharlayan scholar (as in one who studies things, not a SCH), so she has knowledge of historical magicks that are lost to most people.

Well I'm sure they make excuse wouldn't be the first.

can you not make your retainer a WHM?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

can you not make your retainer a WHM?

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Yes, they can become everything beside crafter I think xD

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

can you not make your retainer a WHM?

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That's just something we have to hand-wave away as a player convenience feature, because the only reason they let retainers take jobs is so you can put your hand-me-down gear on them instead of having to buy or craft class gear.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Yes, they can become everything beside crafter I think xD

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OK, I dunno cause I only have one "job" retainer and have never bothered with any other job for them since it's all the same.

So.. if Fetchy McGogetstuff can be a WHM I don't see why someone who actually adventures with you cant =]

Also the other people in your party while you're doing raids and dungeons are technically canon, so there's usually a WHM or two in there.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

OK, I dunno cause I only have one "job" retainer and have never bothered with any other job for them since it's all the same.

So.. if Fetchy McGogetstuff can be a WHM I don't see why someone who actually adventures with you cant =]

Also the other people in your party while you're doing raids and dungeons are technically canon, so there's usually a WHM or two in there.

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Your right, so this argument is basically settled.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Also the other people in your party while you're doing raids and dungeons are technically canon, so there's usually a WHM or two in there.

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That you take other adventurers with you into (most) dungeons is canon. That they bear soul stones is not. There is exactly one non-Padjali WHM in the world.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That you take other adventurers with you into (most) dungeons is canon. That they bear soul stones is not. There is exactly one non-Padjali WHM in the world.

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You're able to "handwave" away that your retainer is a WHM on player convenience but not for squadron members? Their adventures are quite non-canon as far as I know as well considering that the stories that play while you do your squad runs of course cannot be canon since you've run those adventures already. I don't see any reason it cannot be done or shouldn't be done.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're able to "handwave" away that your retainer is a WHM on player convenience but not for squadron members? Their adventures are quite non-canon as far as I know as well considering that the stories that play while you do your squad runs of course cannot be canon since you've run those adventures already. I don't see any reason it cannot be done or shouldn't be done.

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It sounds like you meant to quote my earlier reply, because the post you actually quoted is less to your rebuttal.

Retainers get jobs because we get gear that is job-specific, and if the retainers don't get jobs, then we can't give them some of our gear when we're done with it. Retainer jobs exist strictly for the convenience of the player.

Squadron members don't have that same need. Without jobs, they can still be given (and in some cases, already have been given) abilities that a player cannot use as the same class and level. So they don't need jobs.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It sounds like you meant to quote my earlier reply, because the post you actually quoted is less to your rebuttal.

Retainers get jobs because we get gear that is job-specific, and if the retainers don't get jobs, then we can't give them some of our gear when we're done with it. Retainer jobs exist strictly for the convenience of the player.

Squadron members don't have that same need. Without jobs, they can still be given (and in some cases, already have been given) abilities that they cannot use as their classes or as their current level. So they don't need jobs.

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What I'm saying is it's not exactly game breaking to allow it. While I don't think there's an urgent need I don't see why this couldn't be considered. But on the OPs original question: I don't think we've heard anything about them implementing this.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're able to "handwave" away that your retainer is a WHM on player convenience but not for squadron members? Their adventures are quite non-canon as far as I know as well considering that the stories that play while you do your squad runs of course cannot be canon since you've run those adventures already. I don't see any reason it cannot be done or shouldn't be done.

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That's because in the grand context of the game, the retainers don't exist. They're a prop, not a player. Nobody else can see your retainer unless you own a house and park them outside it. You can't take them into dungeons.

The Squadron, other players can't see either, but unlike the retainers, the characters you recruit are all "existing" people in the game, and you can take them into dungeons.

SE just painted themselves into a corner with now classes/jobs work. They either need to retrofit a reason to give them a job stone, or they need to create a precursor class for Astrologian, Machinist, Red Mage, Dark Knight, and Samurai

Or they can bend things just a little. The entire purpose of the Class -> Job is a throw back to Wizardry that FF1 used up to FF5. Where in Wizardry it let you either do a full on upgrade of the base class, or you could pick a job that was a merger of two classes.

I don't expect the squadron to ever be playable on the field, nor do I expect them to be brought into 8-player trials or raids. So that means they should be able to have any job YOU do not have.

The most basic, and probably cynical, reason is probably because this won't improve performance at all.

Squadron AIs seem to operate on an VERY simple AI Roulette with just a few modifiers like healers prioritizing esuna way too much or melee DPS missing 3 GCDs just to land a positional. I can easily see MNKs formshifting at random. Squadrons also lack cooldowns for whatever reason, and it may not seem obvious now, but it'll be noticeable by everyone when a WHM uses assize every 15 seconds. Personally my favorite was my WAR who kept alive at 1 HP for 20 seconds by spamming holmgang.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

No, she's a CNJ who just happens also to be Sharlayan scholar (as in one who studies things, not a SCH), so she has knowledge of historical magicks that are lost to most people.

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I wouldn't be opposed to enhancing the combat knowledge of my squadron similarly to how Y'sthola enhanced hers. That could be really cool.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

IIRC, only the Padjal are white mages. The warrior of light was specially chosen to become a white mage. So unless SE is willing to break lore (do they have a history of that? Idk.) job crystals probably won’t happen.

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Your retainers can be any job you want them to be though. They don't have the crystals, but they learn they ways of the jobs.

I love doing the squadron dungeon runs. I believe squadrons should be 1. elevated to JOB status since they are max level to 60 & have level 60 abilities. 2. Give them some level 60 dungeons. There several level 60 dungeons that are not mechanic heavy that the squadron can get through. I took my squadrons through all the dungeons they have given them so far.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That's because in the grand context of the game, the retainers don't exist.

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The Scions basically told you to join them because they'll let you use retainers if you do. That is the single way in which they even remotely lived up to their promise to help you with your ventures instead of the other way around. So I'd say your retainers are top notch canon.

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Nobody else can see your retainer unless you own a house and park them outside it.

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Or they have something up on the MB in which case everyone on my server can see their name on the MB listing, clear as day.

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You can't take them into dungeons.

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My FSH retainer is farming Ravana ex, donno about yours.

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SE just painted themselves into a corner with now classes/jobs work. They either need to retrofit a reason to give them a job stone, or they need to create a precursor class for Astrologian, Machinist, Red Mage, Dark Knight, and Samurai

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With the exception of DRK, none of those jobs should have any trouble giving you extra Soul Crystals depending on where you are in the story. MCH is a brand new job and we can safely assume anyone with the title has a Soul Crystal just like how you do (MCH is basically a class but has a Soul Crystal because that's how this game works). SAM I dare say falls under a similar issue, but once you're buddies with the Samurai in Kugane it's not unthinkabe you can get extra Soul Crystas for your retainers should you vouche for them. BLMs we know of several active Soul Crystals, likely there are more. SCHs, just talk to your buddies in the Wanderer's Palace, etc, etc. Even for WHMs it's not that only Padjals can be WHMs, it's they're the only ones allowed to be. But we don't know if they have in their possession all the Soul Crystals. Hell it didn't look like the Seedseers even knew the Soul Crystal you have was in the tree where you found it. You could've easily found a long lost one during a venture into the Amdapori dungeons. Any other job you can basically get more Soul Crystals by talking to your mentor who gave you one in the first place.

The only job where this logic falls the shortest isn't WHM, it's actually DRK, but seeing how you basically found yours lying on the floor in the street, maybe you found another one for your retainer lmao. Or, given that your squad-mates supposedly had adventures before joining, they could've had their own job quest already.

tl;dr there's nothing stopping squadmates from having job and many of the quests actually support this sort of thing, relying on your character vouching for your squad mates. Soul Crystals must be handed back upon discharge from the squad.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned DRG as another job that would have trouble, from a lore perspective, allowing squad members to be the job. The lore seems adamant that there is only ever one "Azure Dragoon" (are there other dragoon colors?) except in a small handful of cases where there are two. Even if there were other dragoon job stones, you know Ishgard has that stuff on lockdown.

Personally, I'm fine with hand-waving away the ability for squad members to be jobs, similar to the retainer argument.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

The most basic, and probably cynical, reason is probably because this won't improve performance at all.

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Counterpoint: There are a variety of important actions that are job-specific (and EVERYTHING above 50 is job-specific) and as such, not available to classes. If they plan on continuing to raise the cap for the squad, they should really allow them to be jobs instead of classes, as they will continue to be less and less useful as the levels increase. Tank stances, Blizzard 3, anything involving Aetherflow stacks... all job actions. Perhaps they wouldn't need the AI to be able to spam the same actions over and over and over again if they actually gave them access to the same kit that players have.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

To all the BLMs out there: Could you imagine not having Bliz3? I feel bad for our THM squad members.

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They can feel sorry for themselves on the bench they've been put on since the beginning.

Have you payed close attention to what they do? More abilities isn't going to make them more effective. They aren't even effective with the abilities they have. There's a reason ARC is the god-king of squadron members even after the engage nerf. The other classes spend too much time doing nothing. They only have a few dead abilities: invigorate, diversion, tactician, and refresh. I don't think I've ever seen them use second wind, and they thankfully use tactician and refresh infrequently. On the other hand I've seen my ROG go true north, bloodbath, shadewalker, diversion, blood bath, second wind, and by the time he finished the mob was already dead.

Well TBH, the flames do have Summoners in their ranks so I believe it might be possible, maybe they will restrict some jobs to certain GC who knows

It would be a nerf to mission affinities. You can usually match all the mission affinities for classes because there's enough squadron members to be every class expect one.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Well TBH, the flames do have Summoners in their ranks so I believe it might be possible, maybe they will restrict some jobs to certain GC who knows

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I think it would be a little silly to only allow some jobs and not others. I think we can all agree that if they wish to push this forward, it'll be a segregation of gameplay and story.

If we're concerned about lore most jobs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine a very plausible excuse for WHM and BLM. BLM is....dangerous to say the least. It would take a lot of dedication and careful research for being able to use those arts, and I think it would be quite alarming if BLMs were just suddenly out and about advertising their skills as adventurers considering the stigma attached to them and the Sixth Umbral Era. WHM's are even more farfetched considering it's power bestowed by the elementals ,and it's something the Padjal are groomed for from birth.

Im all for it, if we can teach our retainers, I say we can teach a squadron of whom we are commanding and training specifically for battle.

It makes more sense to me that squadrons are taught than retainers

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I think it would be a little silly to only allow some jobs and not others. I think we can all agree that if they wish to push this forward, it'll be a segregation of gameplay and story.

If we're concerned about lore most jobs wouldn't be an issue, but I can't imagine a very plausible excuse for WHM and BLM. BLM is....dangerous to say the least. It would take a lot of dedication and careful research for being able to use those arts, and I think it would be quite alarming if BLMs were just suddenly out and about advertising their skills as adventurers considering the stigma attached to them and the Sixth Umbral Era. WHM's are even more farfetched considering it's power bestowed by the elementals ,and it's something the Padjal are groomed for from birth.

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Tbh if you complete the WHM storyline from SB there's a hint of change coming to the WHM community also in a way BLM story is trying to fix their reputation too.
Personally I think that making some jobs exclusive to some GCs might give them a bit of flavor especially if the increase in stats is substantial compared to normal ones, ofc they would have need to rebalance the entire thing to make it work, like how affinities works only with class and not jobs.
And who knows maybe you can later add missions that allows you to teach your squadron the ways of a job not from the GC you are affiliated with to unlock it.
Frankly the sky is the limit

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I'm surprised no one has mentioned DRG as another job that would have trouble, from a lore perspective, allowing squad members to be the job. The lore seems adamant that there is only ever one "Azure Dragoon" (are there other dragoon colors?) except in a small handful of cases where there are two. Even if there were other dragoon job stones, you know Ishgard has that stuff on lockdown.

Personally, I'm fine with hand-waving away the ability for squad members to be jobs, similar to the retainer argument.

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I'm pretty sure Dragoons are the elite Ishgardian military, and the Azure Dragoon is just the one allowed to use the Nidhogg eye.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Tbh if you complete the WHM storyline from SB there's a hint of change coming to the WHM community also in a way BLM story is trying to fix their reputation too.

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Honestly, I think freezing how the jobs are earned in time is a bad idea. We learned them, we can teach them to others. The scholar storyline has already implied this.

However what needs to happen is to take a page from how the companions are implemented in FFXV, and rather make the player able to tell them to call strategy, or have the AI player call strategy before each fight. That would at least make it less stupid. Like the way it's implemented now, is simply too dumb for complex mechanics.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

We learned them, we can teach them to others.

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That's not exactly correct. You can teacht the arts, but some jobs are a bit more complex and requires some gizmos, like BLM, you can teach some1 black magic arts, but without the gem of shatotto they will combust themselves.

That's why I said they could make it an unlockable to make the GC missions more interesting in a way

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

I'm pretty sure Dragoons are the elite Ishgardian military, and the Azure Dragoon is just the one allowed to use the Nidhogg eye.

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Yeah, it's been awhile, but wasn't that pretty much the DRG class story in HW, we were taking a pupil under our wing to train to be a DRG... I mean, she jumps, right?

On topic, I'm in favor of Squadron members gaining access to Job Crystals. As others have said, if my retainer can do it the I don't see any reason why my squadron shouldn't be able to either.

At the very least, they can be given the same 'workaround' as the retainers get if they really don't want to give them Soul Crystals

Most of the 60/70 job quests involved you training a new generation of your job so the job lores are definitely leaving the possibility of us mentoring people into a job open.

I see no reason why we couldn’t begin training our squad in jobs we have levelled up, they could add new individual training as an option on the training board where they could unlock jobs and learn job skills.

If nothing else they could just give the squad pseudo jobs. E.G. they’re not a White Mage, they’re an elementalist. They don’t use benediction, they use full cure, it just happens to be the same thing as benediction.

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Originally Posted by Moonfish

IIRC, only the Padjal are white mages. The warrior of light was specially chosen to become a white mage. So unless SE is willing to break lore (do they have a history of that? Idk.) job crystals probably won’t happen.

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Well retainers can be white mages sooooooo..

But yeah be nice to give them jobs. Sucks you only have 1 healer option with cnj