Can someone from devopment explain why Eureka was delayed for so long?

There is no content in it, why did it need to be delayed for so long? All it is AoE zero monsters, You could done this in 24 hours of programing I bet.

Strongly suspecting that very little of that was actual work, and we're seeing the results of something that went through a lot of stalled development and non-consensus on what they were actually intending this to be. It's not a bad concept but the execution is equal parts baffling and worrisome.

That's what has a lot of long-term players concerned.

The common opinion is that they had to test how long it would take to finish one set of relic gear, in real time.

Some people can sorely underestimate game programming... For one thing, compared to other MMOs SE does release new content with very few issues, and said issues tend to be minor. Maybe one big issue pops up they quickly hotfix... Furthermore, the elemental system used in Eureka is not only new to this game but also a seperate leveling system in and of itself. In other words, it's more than just another instance.

My guess is that the system-level changes they made (elemental affinity, dynamic affinity changing, chaining changes, new XP tables and splitting calculations, leveling system changes incl. level down, etc.) were a lot more complicated to get working in FFXIV's codebase than people would believe. I highly doubt it's like they had an entire team of dozens of developers working on nothing but this nonstop for years, but probably the amount of staff they have who can make those kinds of system level changes to the server code are very few, and it probably had all sorts of bugs and complications with many iterations just to get to this point.

(This is also why I'm guessing that making the types of changes people are requesting now (adding things on top to make it more interesting) will probably be much smaller in comparison, having built this foundation.)

Of course none of this changes the "that's it?" feeling you're alluding to at all, and that's still a pretty major misfire. But I suspect this will be one of those cases where the work involved will mean a lot more to the people inside the team (who know what was really involved) than to anyone on the outside (who, rightfully, only judge the final result).

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Some people can sorely underestimate game programming... For one thing, compared to other MMOs SE does release new content with very few issues, and said issues tend to be minor. Maybe one big issue pops up they quickly hotfix... Furthermore, the elemental system used in Eureka is not only new to this game but also a seperate leveling system in and of itself. In other words, it's more than just another instance.

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I agree in general, though there are two points I'd like to add.

(1) Issues that crop up often aren't minor, unless you define 'issues' as purely unintended bugs. From a broader user experience standpoint, SE has an absolutely atrocious record. They've ignored class balance issues for entire expansion cycles; they still haven't fully fixed housing; they still haven't fully fixed Glamours. They haven't properly resolved the MSQ missions at the end of ARR, and arguably made matters worse with this latest change. These issues shouldn't be properly classified as bugs, but they are absolutely 'issues' in the broader sense of the word - major ones, and ones that often go unresolved for months or years.

(2) I don't know that the player base is wanting SE to prioritize steady and rapidly-paced update cycles at the expense of creative and ambitious content anymore. It made perfect sense early in ARR's lifespan, when there were only a handful of level-cap dungeons, one 24-person Raid, and one end-game Raid. Fine. Now, I'm not so sure. SE's job is to support FFXIV in the best way possible; that doesn't just mean releasing new content without bugs.

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

My guess is that the system-level changes they made (elemental affinity, dynamic affinity changing, chaining changes, new XP tables and splitting calculations, leveling system changes incl. level down, etc.) were a lot more complicated to get working in FFXIV's codebase than people would believe. I highly doubt it's like they had an entire team of dozens of developers working on nothing but this nonstop for years, but probably the amount of staff they have who can make those kinds of system level changes to the server code are very few, and it probably had all sorts of bugs and complications with many iterations just to get to this point.

(This is also why I'm guessing that making the types of changes people are requesting now (adding things on top to make it more interesting) will probably be much smaller in comparison, having built this foundation.)

Of course none of this changes the "that's it?" feeling you're alluding to at all, and that's still a pretty major misfire. But I suspect this will be one of those cases where the work involved will mean a lot more to the people inside the team (who know what was really involved) than to anyone on the outside (who, rightfully, only judge the final result).

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This is a good possibility. That said, I'd be very interested in a more formal explanation. Diadem (both iterations) and Eureka have been such disappointing flops for so many players, SE would be well-advised to open up the floodgates and actually communicate with players. Distribute a survey, share the overall results, discuss it in a Live Letter. I happen to think FFXIV has one of the most forgiving fan bases on the planet. Many of us already stuck with the game throughout the debacle that was XIV 1.0. That said, speaking personally, I need to be thrown a bone. I need to feel like the development team is aware of the concerns I have, concerns that appear to be shared by a not-insignificant portion of the player base. The deafening silence from the development team is going to become a problem very quickly, as it always does, and SE would be well-advised to get out in front of it and be proactive.

Another factor is that might been understaffed and had a slower development for this.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Another factor is that might been understaffed and had a slower development for this.

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Another thing to consider is that the housing wards and housing changes we got recently were not intended to be released at that point. Those were released in response to the enormous uproar over the Shirogane launch.

It's possible this contributed to Eureka being delayed.

im pretty sure they searched the fun in it. and at some point they just had to release it without it.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

(1) Issues that crop up often aren't minor, unless you define 'issues' as purely unintended bugs.

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The issues I speak of are indeed the known issues and stuff listed in the patch notes. They try their best to fix what they can with new content before releasing it, but usually there are still a few kinks to work out that aren't too big an issue that should delay the release further. Again usually some bigger issues than expected do crop up but they get hotfixed. By way of example, for Eureka the minor issues consisted of the bit where world names don't appear in party chat and the few other things, and then the big one that appeared they had to hotfix was the elemental level "rewind".

Remember when you are doing something and friends around you criticise what you are doing? Ye that

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

FFXIV has one of the most forgiving fan bases on the planet.

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Yes and that's the only reason why the game is still there. The exact same game with another skin and the game would have had another fate...

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Another factor is that might been understaffed and had a slower development for this.

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Got to keep manpower available to design all the cash shop items ;)

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Got to keep manpower available to design all the cash shop items ;)

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The irony is that the cash shop is the one source of revenue that goes back into the game, iirc

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The irony is that the cash shop is the one source of revenue that goes back into the game, iirc

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Yeah sure, and money grow on trees.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The irony is that the cash shop is the one source of revenue that goes back into the game, iirc

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I heavily doubt this now.

I honestly believe most of the work went into the design of the map, weather and balancing of the leveling when comparing enemies to your lvl.

they probably didnt change the core of the code from v1, for a game with different objectivs than v1.
They have hard time so to developp anything.

For the lack of fun, 12, 17, 24 month wouldnt change anything, they dont have good game designers for fight content...
They have the High Level PvE team (that provide omega, primals, 24-raids etc)
the diadem/eureka team (yes... the same team did the 3 fails...)
The palace of the dead team (FUN FOUND!)

The first group wont specifically try to find the fun, but interesting fight mainly. (If the fight is good, interesting, the fun will be there)
The second and third have to make the content fun, but only one of the two team get some good game designers...

Why was it late? Poor project management.

I think the Leveldesign took so long....

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

the diadem/eureka team (yes... the same team did the 3 fails...)
The palace of the dead team (FUN FOUND!)

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Eureka:

• Map design alone is a breath of fresh air (many ppl still don't care)
• Players are now optimizing NM spawning, initial first impression salt of just chaining non-NM pop mobs is now irrelevant unless you just want to solo everything.
• 20 NMs specifically designed for the content and many of them are above S Rank designed hunts and we haven't even gotten to the higher NMs.
• Initial Salt they copied XI, yet it is trace elements of XI and newer content but still with the base grind relic that has been staple FF tradition.

Palace of the Dead:
Content with even more elements of XI's Nyzul Isle only watered down for XIV players. Even the RNG shard trade in is a watered down Nyzul turn in.

Hate to bring some reality in (definitely not defending SE, as the 4yrs of base tome grind is old as hell), but between the initial outcries of Eureka with players just mindlessly grinding trash mobs and the "this is not XI" hate. Many aspects folks consider fun have more elements of XI in them than Eureka. I wouldn't be surprised if the new deep dungeon had elements of XI Salvage or other XI content that was highly successful modernized to fit the XIV formula.

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

My guess is that the system-level changes they made (elemental affinity, dynamic affinity changing, chaining changes, new XP tables and splitting calculations, leveling system changes incl. level down, etc.) were a lot more complicated to get working in FFXIV's codebase than people would believe. I highly doubt it's like they had an entire team of dozens of developers working on nothing but this nonstop for years, but probably the amount of staff they have who can make those kinds of system level changes to the server code are very few, and it probably had all sorts of bugs and complications with many iterations just to get to this point.

(This is also why I'm guessing that making the types of changes people are requesting now (adding things on top to make it more interesting) will probably be much smaller in comparison, having built this foundation.)

Of course none of this changes the "that's it?" feeling you're alluding to at all, and that's still a pretty major misfire. But I suspect this will be one of those cases where the work involved will mean a lot more to the people inside the team (who know what was really involved) than to anyone on the outside (who, rightfully, only judge the final result).

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Possibly add in the work it took to do the ability to manage teams inside a duty instance...

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

My guess is that the system-level changes they made (elemental affinity, dynamic affinity changing, chaining changes, new XP tables and splitting calculations, leveling system changes incl. level down, etc.) were a lot more complicated to get working in FFXIV's codebase than people would believe. I highly doubt it's like they had an entire team of dozens of developers working on nothing but this nonstop for years, but probably the amount of staff they have who can make those kinds of system level changes to the server code are very few, and it probably had all sorts of bugs and complications with many iterations just to get to this point.

(This is also why I'm guessing that making the types of changes people are requesting now (adding things on top to make it more interesting) will probably be much smaller in comparison, having built this foundation.)

Of course none of this changes the "that's it?" feeling you're alluding to at all, and that's still a pretty major misfire. But I suspect this will be one of those cases where the work involved will mean a lot more to the people inside the team (who know what was really involved) than to anyone on the outside (who, rightfully, only judge the final result).

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Another thing to consider is that the housing wards and housing changes we got recently were not intended to be released at that point. Those were released in response to the enormous uproar over the Shirogane launch.

It's possible this contributed to Eureka being delayed.

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HOW? there is NOTHING in Eureka that takes work! if they had problems with putting the extra level system in FFXIV from a programing level, then they could of simplified it to something like Palace of the dead. There is no excuse for this long wait for no content, none. All Eureka is.. is a breaddead grind for outdated gear.... I am not interested in glams that take this long.

I would rather have fixes to the glam system then this broken place called diadem 3.0

party
Probably a big chunk of the time was spent on the ability to party and change parties in an instance.

It might seem like a small thing, and one we take for granted, but that was probably a lot of work to figure out.

Because partying inside Eureka is not at all the same party system as outside. It looks the same, but it isn't.

How do I know that?

If you make a premade party outside of Eureka and queue, sure it looks like all it did was take that same party and applied it inside the instance.
However if you change your party members inside (a person leaves, other people join, etc..), that same original party in Kugane remains.
That implies the party system is different between the two

Also anyone who's running ACT will notice that it's having some difficulty telling "party" members alike. Instead it's treating everyone in the whole field equally (leading to some pretty gigantic logs). That also implies that the partying inside is a different system than usual, that was just skinned to look exactly like the old one.

NM

There are 20 datamined fates, so 20 NM. Many of these have unique features (which if you're lagging might be hard to see but those of us who aren't do see them).

Some of them have stack markers, others player-target AOE, others call in reinforcements, etc..

Having fates that trigger based on kills also probably took some development time. There are no fates elsewhere that do so.
Other fates trigger on: timer, fate chain, and NPC talking.

Weather and time based monsters
Typhoon sprites show up in gales
Rain sprites show up during rain
Undead show up at night

I don't know if they've done anything like that before, so that might have taken development

Other things we haven't discovered yet?
We still haven't explored the level 20+ areas. They might have their own small quirks that required development time.
After all, we didn't know about the "buff faeries" as they weren't mentioned anywhere, we had to discover them. Maybe there are other things that we still need to discover, perhaps that are better hidden.

We all know our sub money is going to the FF7 remake we know isn't really coming. FFXIV is on the backburner, hence why we keep getting crap delivered to us like diadem 3.0.

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Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

im pretty sure they searched the fun in it. and at some point they just had to release it without it.

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Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends. I don't find expert roulettes fun, maybe you love grinding that for months? I like savage, maybe you don't like it?

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends. I don't find expert roulettes fun, maybe you love grinding that for months? I like savage, maybe you don't like it?

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Cool story.

Eureka put me to sleep last night.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you don't need Eureka...

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends.

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Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you dont need Eureka...
______________________________________________________________________
As for why the development took so long... yeah, I'd like to know that too...

My personal theory is that a good portion of time actually went into stuff like the party system and the option to invite players inside the instance.

My hope is that they spend the first 6 months desperatly trying to come up with something creative, fresh and new and then gave up on it and had to start from scretch. Wouldnt make me happy but more hopeful for the future that they tried something else before Eureka and used this final concept as "Damn, we got nothing...!" instead of actually believing that this is good content that people wanted.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

all the things

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Yes, I noticed all of this last night! I think it is a great feat of programming that they did an excellent job of disguising (somewhat to their detriment, clearly). I don't approve of datamining since it takes all the mystery out of the game and spoonfeeds content to people. It's like skipping to the end of a book to see what happens.

I come from super old school MMO land, so I'm more of the opinion that we should remain patient and work our way to the top of this new content before we start judging. I am curious where the story will lead us. It's like in EQ...you start out killing bats in the newbie areas, but end game has you fighting dragons and dodging AoEs (which don't have AoE markers and you can't tell what the dragon is casting without looking at the spell particles :P ).

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Originally Posted by AmemeAmeklin

It's like in EQ...you start out killing bats in the newbie areas, but end game has you fighting dragons and dodging AoEs (which don't have AoE markers and you can't tell what the dragon is casting without looking at the spell particles :P ).

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Honestly, I feel this part of the problem with Eureka aswell: We already did that. We started out killing bats and rats and little crabs in newbie areas. Eureka is meant to be part of the end game that has you fighting dragons.
Its funny how they spend the last 4 years making the normal leveling process easier and, more importantly, filled it with more variety than FATE-grinds (leveling roulettes, increased exp from dungeons, beast tribe dailies, PotD, hunts, the challenge log...) because people (rightfully if you ask me) requested to be able to level in different ways than just mob zerging and now Eureka seems to have turned the clock back in the worst way possible.

I tried Eureka with my paladin - Royal Blade and Holy Spirit at level 70 can hit for 10k. Now, in Eureka, I'm thrown back to hit rats for 1k if I'm lucky. Eureka, in a sense, took away my progress and told me "You know what? Start at zero again!" and thats a bad idea.
When you enter Eureka, you are at endgame. You're not a newbie adventurer who needs to learn the ropes by killing bats.

I know that we need to level up our elemental level because of all that corrupted aether lorewise. Okay, I can roll with that. That doesnt make the whole "grind mobs again" a good gameplay mechanic though - and as much as I want to see the story and like the hidden bits, I'm also not fooling myself over what the core-gameplay here is: Killing bats.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?
Its not meant as attack, everyone is entitled to like different things, but I cant help but wonder: Is this content good and fun enough that you'd enjoy it by yourself? Or is it more the company of your friends that you're enjoying here while Eureka without them would bore you to death aswell in 10 minutes?
Because if it would, its not the achievment of the game that you're having fun with that content - its the achievment of your friends/company. And to spend time with them you dont need Eureka...

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I actually agree with your first sentiment. I totally abide by the game is fun with friends theory. This is shared not only in FFXIV but in other games as well. And while a game is fun when played with friends, it doesn't mean that game is good. So while the OP said fun is subjective, which is true, that doesn't make it good either. (good also being subjective I understand, however if a game is only good with friends you can't help but wonder...)

The problem is, at least for me, FFXIV's base gameplay is too slow for endless mob grinds. If it was action based, I wouldn't mind it in the slightest. I play dynasty warrior and like games for days. Endless mob killing? sign me up! However with how slow FFXIV gameplay is.....its not fun in the slightest....And I'm bothered it had to be delayed in order to implement it as it is now.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Fun is subjective. I find it fun with my friends from FC/LS and cross server friends.

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Which goes back to a feature that has been asked for since Crystal Tower was released. Give us the ability to create parties of 4 or 8 and alliance them together to do this type of content and 24man raids.... It gives more incentive for friends and FCs.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Snip

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I think you fall on the to much credit side. They can't even count how many players login and how many instances they need. It has happened multiple times now and they just let players suffer. Do you think the instance problem will be fixed before 5.0. Or will we get another set of MSQ where players bottle neck because they can't count players and instances? Or after reading the well written post about the exploited bug. It is pretty obvious why the bots don't truly get punished. It slides onto a desk with to much work and if they can't explain why it happens they aren't cheating. They had a better grasp of cheating in 11 when they use to move fishing bots with GMs and see how they reacted.

The only time they make much effort is when they start to get bad publicity. Housing has been multiple lies and a problem since day one. They only did something lat time after a bunch of MMO sites reported it was bad. They only did something about foreign price policy after steam and other review sites started to tank.

This is not even getting into the content. It is what it is. It is to subjective to many different desires to balance. So they get a pass on that. Not everyone is going to be happy.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Cool story..

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Tell me what you find fun in this game.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Each time I'm reading something like the highlighted part, I wonder: Do you find this content only fun with your friends? Maybe even because of your friends? Because you're doing it with them, maybe even in VoiceChat, talking about some nonsense, while grinding mobs?.

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What you said last line sure thing, but we also talk about the stuff that's happening in the game too. We laugh when someone keeps getting aggro and dies, we love it when we get cool items we been grinding for etc. Do I have fun with strangers? Sure thing, in fact I added 4 of them into my discord server last night because they happened to enjoy playing with me too. People don't wanna grind but same time they don't wanna clear content that actually gives them higher ilvl, why? Effort, paying attention to the screen, actually playing? You can never satisfy MMO players in many ways. It's either too much grind or absoluttely nothing to do after the grind fest been happening too fast. You can tell me what you find fun and be realistic about it, asuming you would want some of it to happen in the game? And I've done it many times with strangers and still find it fun. It's grindy`Sure, but I also played plenty of games both online and offline to grind to get myself things i want. Maybe it's the fact I've done it so many times before or simply because I'm not spoiled enough to get things handed at me for no reason? You tell me.

Bet not even the devs who made it can explain why it took so long.

But well .. is prob "save it for when our subs are starting to drop to keep ppl playing/grinding/paying sub"

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

What you said last line sure thing, but we also talk about the stuff that's happening in the game too. We laugh when someone keeps getting aggro and dies, we love it when we get cool items we been grinding for etc. Do I have fun with strangers? Sure thing, in fact I added 4 of them into my discord server last night because they happened to enjoy playing with me too. People don't wanna grind but same time they don't wanna clear content that actually gives them higher ilvl, why? Effort, paying attention to the screen, actually playing? You can never satisfy MMO players in many ways. It's either too much grind or absoluttely nothing to do after the grind fest been happening too fast. You can tell me what you find fun and be realistic about it, asuming you would want some of it to happen in the game? And I've done it many times with strangers and still find it fun. It's grindy`Sure, but I also played plenty of games both online and offline to grind to get myself things i want. Maybe it's the fact I've done it so many times before or simply because I'm not spoiled enough to get things handed at me for no reason? You tell me.

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Since you're implying that my complains are based on wanting things handed to me, let me make one thing clear: I absolutly do not mind a grind. I have finished 3 ARR and HW relics - all from scratch, all when they were current content. I farmed for all ponies, all birds and while I'm having pretty bad luck when it comes to those stupid dogs, I am continuing my mission there. (I guess my brain wanted to protect me from thise, so I forgot to mention it: I got BOTH freaking Yokai-mounts! You know, the terrible, terrible FATE-grind things. And I dont even like the look of them! My PvP-level was at 50 when PvP was rather dead content and queuetimes over an hour normal...) I have basically every job at 70 (except for monk... and leftovers for dragoon and ast). My little casual-semi-static is progressing at Savage atm.
Actually, the first game I've ever played - Pokemon Red - I grinded the hell out of that. The first Final Fantasy game I touched was 10 - and my last savegame there has about 300 hours, most of them spend with grinding for exp and money to grind for more exp. My other major hobby besides videogames is cross stitching - I can easly pour 80+ hours into just one project.
Please understand that I do not expect things being handed to me.

I do, however, expect to be entertained by a videogame - a fight like Shinryu EX for example does that for me because its actually keeping me engaged, makes me pay attention and react to things happening. I find that content both enjoyable with my friends aswell as with (skilled) strangers.

Now, Eureka on the other hand: The core-element of the fight in there is utterly boring to me, because, lets face it: the combat system of FFXIV isnt that fun to begin with. You hit your rota and be done with it. The mechanics of a fight like Shinryu and dealing with them are what makes the content engaging and fun (at least to me - sorry, pressing 1-2-3 and then 4-5-6 and then back to 1-2-3 and maybe 7, 8, 9 in between is not fun).
Eureka basically has non of those. NM might have some mechanics to them, but you need to keep in mind that you're gonna spend most of your time there not fighting NM but the normal mobs with a cone-AoE at best.
I had fun doing exploring bits and the quests for Krile - at least the ones I got to do so far because I realised: In order to play enjoyable content, I need to put in hours of boring, dull grind. I dont need to put in effort to get item-rewards, I need to put in effort to get fun-content-rewards. And thats wrong, sorry.
I understand that the social aspect of the game is a major fun - makes sense with an MMO after all. And I also understand that specially FFXI-nostalgia-people might wanted something like this back - except they forgot that chatting was possible with FFXI-combat, but not with what we've got here.
But content still needs to be fun or enjoyable without that social aspect - it can be more fun with people around, for sure. It most certainly always will be!
But it has to work as game, by itself, before that.

If "please, give me something fun to do in Eureka because beating up the same monster over and over again isnt" equals "you just want stuff handed to you!" I dont know what to tell you.
Give me fun content.
Or at least give me some variety.
Give me a choice and more than one way to achieve my goal.

For Eureka for example:
Give me daily explore missions to find certain spots. Give me a hint that if I kill one particular mob, I can get extra loot. Let me find or stumble over treasure chests or maybe a logbook, explaining something about Eureka. Give me a labyrinth with puzzles to solve. Make me pull a certain mob to a certain spot and kill it there, to open a secret door.
Just... let me do something beside chain-pulling-braindead-grind. The content makes me want to watch a movie because by itself its just so, so boring - but at the same time it just requires enough attention that I cant even do that. Eureka doesnt make me pay attention to the screen because there is something fun and engaging happen but because I might pull another mob by accident. I want to look at the screen and pay attention to it! But the game needs to give me something actually worth looking at and paying attention to, if you understand what I mean?

I do not mind a grind in general - absolutly not.
I do however mind a boring grind - more so one for, at this point, outdated rewards. Granted, the carrot might be worth it to you and I hope the enjoyment you get out of it, is enough for you.
I told you what I would find fun now and I'd say I've been pretty realistic about it - because: basically thats more than just zerging down monster over and over again.

I dont want to have to rely on people - wether its strangers or friends - to distract me from how boring the core-aspect of Eureka is.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

I actually agree with your first sentiment. I totally abide by the game is fun with friends theory. This is shared not only in FFXIV but in other games as well. And while a game is fun when played with friends, it doesn't mean that game is good. So while the OP said fun is subjective, which is true, that doesn't make it good either. (good also being subjective I understand, however if a game is only good with friends you can't help but wonder...)

The problem is, at least for me, FFXIV's base gameplay is too slow for endless mob grinds. If it was action based, I wouldn't mind it in the slightest. I play dynasty warrior and like games for days. Endless mob killing? sign me up! However with how slow FFXIV gameplay is.....its not fun in the slightest....And I'm bothered it had to be delayed in order to implement it as it is now.

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LAMO ya I can play DW too, never thought of it like that.

Never thought the dev team are just putting a concept in a game that still does not fit the game despite months on it.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Tell me what you find fun in this game.

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I enjoyed the hell out of palace of the dead. used to do raiding, but got burned out on it. Right now I'm into rp and doing things with friends. That's definitely keeping me playing more than any single content.

Other than rp and potd I can't find one specific thing I can point to and say "that will always be fun for me", because eventually the grind reduces it to a paste, if it isn't a thing I hate outright. Am I going to keep trying Eureka? Perhaps, it has lockboxes, but its leaving a bad first impression for me with the relic, it looks and plays like dino island, and I have reservations about sticking this out and giving the high levels a chance for I355 GEAR.

They said it wouldn't be like Diadem, yet it is. That it is based on the wishes of those that played ffxi, yet I'm just, I can't see this having a good future, stacked with relic as it is.

My speculation is that FFVII:R is over budget, behind schedule and is needing way more resources than they anticipated. The resources are not being released fast enough by the FFXV team because they are milking it with DLCs. Resources are being redirected from XIV to VII:R, simple as that. This would explain why we are seeing so few innovations, so little content and the best way to silence Yoshi is to promote him, which they did. Now that he is on the board, they can make high level decisions and even though he may object, as a board member, he must remain silent if he disagrees with a decision as they all move in lockstep once a decision is made.

Think of it this way, when was the last time you saw Yoshi smile? Dress up in his silly outfits? Weeks, months... over a year? He knows what is going on and he cant say a thing, but he can express it with his face as they cant control that. There is no joy in his face as of late and when was the last time you saw a community moderator join a discussion? its as if they have all disappeared, they used to talk a lot.

Something is going on, something very worrying...

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

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Well lets see they wont release Star Ocean Second evolution to the West on ps4 and star ocean games are better in 2D and even that is a classic probably would of sold well over here also, I would of gotten it.

Even if they were to remaster the star ocean for SNES and put it on ps4 i would buy it.

I am tired of HD high quality graphics the final fantasy series might have gotten away with it but not other RPG's

So if they have money issues blame it on that.

Ps4 is dying for 2D rpg games but everyone seems to be on the graphics train its sickening

Tell you this I busted out my old 2D rpg games and my cousin never played them at all and said they were better than the current games of today.