DRK - Please add anti-knockback move

It just feels as DRK its been trolled by the lack of a move like that, specially in fights like Sigmascape savage V1, anything like Surecast or Arm\\'s Length will do it as role no problem, just please add it, even in pvp its there "Concentrate", doesnt have to be soo much good like that one with all those effects, just anti-knock back will do it, DRK will look more professional and smooth to play on raids :)

Using plunge at the right time can prevent knockbacks and it is available every 30 seconds just like surecast. So its kinda like a substitute surecast that does damage, but you have to deal with timing it perfectly.

Plunge can essentially counter any knockback in the game. Just have to time it right.

Even though Plunge might be technically able to do it, it requires far more precise timing than the anti-knockbacks that are actually meant to be anti-knockbacks.

This is unfair and makes any kind of latency spike even more dangerous to DRK compared to other jobs.

All jobs (BRD also needs one) should have a proper anti-knockback option, whether it's via a direction job/class action or a role action.

I found these knockback resists to be way too available. Surecast is absolutely absurd in O5S. You can ignore every push ghost mechanic and some of the headlight pushbacks. You can ignore the Shockwave in O7S etc. It has such a short cooldown and lets you completely ignore so many critical mechanics. Paladins can even double-up.

I'd rather see the knockback resist arms race reversed and have cooldowns increased significantly instead of adding resist actions to every class.

Please no.

I would prefer if Plunge's range was increased and/or the animation lock was toned down a bit.

In some cases, TBN can be used as anti knockback if it can completely negate the damage. I find this is only useful as MT otherwise chances are the shield will not break.

A good example of this is the 1000 tonne swing from the first boss of hells lid.

I think removing the potency on plunge and lowering its cd to 15s or so. Make up the damage elsewhere. At least then it can help more with this issue

I actually suggesting adding knock back protection in my DRK rework thread.

Dark Mind

• The effect “Reduces magic vulnerability by 15%” has been changed to “Reduces magic vulnerability by 15% while preventing most knockback and draw-in effects”

You can view the rest of the suggested changes HERE

if everyone had an anti-knockback then there would be no point in having an anti-knock back.

or just make Plunge match it's peer with Onslaught. sure WAR has holmgang, but that's just an additional effect to it's invuln skill.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if everyone had an anti-knockback then there would be no point in having an anti-knock back.

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They already do. Most everyone has one.

DRG: Role + Timed Jump x2 (60s, 60s, 120s CDs)
MNK: Role + Timed Shoulder (x2 if you want) (60s, 30s(+1 charge on wind))
NIN: Role (Dunno if shukuchi if timed would work) (60s)
SAM: Role + Timed dash (60s, 10s + 10 kenki)

BRD: None but ranged
MCH: None - ranged

BLM: Role + Ranged to begin with
SMN: Role + Ranged
RDM: Role + Timed corps-a-corps + Ranged (40s, +1 every 140 if you need)

PLD: Tempered Will + Hallowed if you really need it (180s, 420s)
WAR: Timed charge + Holmgang (20s + 10 guage, 180s)
DRK: Timed leap (30s)

WHM: Role + Ranged
SCH: Role + Ranged
AST: Role + Ranged

Combine this with the fact that DRK loses the most from having to disengage from the boss and it's just punishing. A WAR can game burst windows to make disengaging slightly less harsh and a PLD can enter HS phase to mitigate downtime from the boss.

Just increase Plunge range so that, like a Shoulder Tackle, it's decently reliable as a knockback counter. And decrease its animation lock duration while we're at it.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

...Combine this with the fact that DRK loses the most from having to disengage from the boss and it's just punishing. A WAR can game burst windows to make disengaging slightly less harsh and a PLD can enter HS phase to mitigate downtime from the boss.

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Not to mention the potency loss from holding Plunge for a knockback mechanic. :/

I actually suggested reducing the potency of plunge to help reduce the loss from holding it for this purpose in my DRK Rework.

Plunge

• Potency has been reduced from 200 to 100.
• Range has been increased from 15y to 20y

Note: ~ -3.3 PPS
Note: Animation lock reduced to match other gap closers

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PLD can enter HS phase to mitigate downtime from the boss

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Most of the time - no. HS phases are timed to rotation phases, saving them for knockbacks will be overall DPS loss most of the time.
I agree that having to anti-knockback ability sucks. Just as having no gap-closing ability. As always, WAR have both, while two other tanks suffer :)

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Most of the time - no. HS phases are timed to rotation phases, saving them for knockbacks will be overall DPS loss most of the time.
I agree that having to anti-knockback ability sucks. Just as having no gap-closing ability. As always, WAR have both, while two other tanks suffer :)

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When faced with a situation in which you will have 0 dps for more than a certain number of globals, why wouldn't you burn your MP on holy spirits? Like if you get burning winds in 7s. I don't pld enough but wouldn't that be a dps gain over sitting there doing nothing? even if it messes up 1 HS phase

For long disconnects, sure. For knockbacks? Lets assume PLD lose Tempered Will (which already have way longer CD than Arm's Length or Surecast). Boss pushes you away. You can HS but then will need to run in melee anyway, and often next mechanic is a raid-wide AoE so you need to be close in order to get heals.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

They already do. Most everyone has one.

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i mean you're not wrong but i think OP is just straight up asking for an easy anytime anti-knockback button.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

I would prefer if Plunge's range was increased and/or the animation lock was toned down a bit.

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This. Just match onslaught on range/animation lock and it would be fine.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

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Just going to add two, one is unconfirmed but the other I abused all through ARR + HW as a DRG main:

Evasive Jump is the OG knockback prevention. It's also now 30s as opposed to 60s. I've also heard that, correctly timed, Repelling Shot can negate knockbacks with the same methodology: it comes down to knowing how they script knockbacks. It's really just a string that pulls the character along the arena (one of the Stormblood hype letters talked about this, the same one that went over the meaning behind Sophia's lyrics--maybe it was fanfest?) so any ability that overwrites most/all movement takeovers with other movement will save you from knockbacks.

EDIT: It's also why gapclosers negate them as well.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Just going to add two, one is unconfirmed but the other I abused all through ARR + HW as a DRG main:

Evasive Jump is the OG knockback prevention. It's also now 30s as opposed to 60s. I've also heard that, correctly timed, Repelling Shot can negate knockbacks with the same methodology: it comes down to knowing how they script knockbacks. It's really just a string that pulls the character along the arena (one of the Stormblood hype letters talked about this, the same one that went over the meaning behind Sophia's lyrics--maybe it was fanfest?) so any ability that overwrites most/all movement takeovers with other movement will save you from knockbacks.

EDIT: It's also why gapclosers negate them as well.

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Virtually any knockback mechanic can be countered by any character dash move if timed properly so long as the mechanic doesn't include a stun. Different character dashes have shorter/longer animations which affect your timing, but they all work. Jump. Onslaught, tackle, repelling shot, whatever.

As to 'everyone' having anti knockback specific actions. They are all role skills. You have to sacrifice something to put it on your bar. Pld is the only one that has it built into their kit (Holmgang is wasted as a knockback preventer and has a strange and sorted history that landed it where it is now, and existed when war didn't have a dash.), and wouldn't you know, they are the only melee-ish class that doesn't have a dash. Drk has one. War has one. Drg/mnk/nin have ways to get back to the fray. Pld doesn't. That's why it has a way to ignore them. Drk doesn't need a pld button and tank role skills are tight enough as it is without adding an unnecessary hold your ground skill. SE has already dealt with this. War/Drk get dashes. Pld prevents knockbacks.

Make plunge the same speed and distance as onslaught is all that's needed.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

or just make Plunge match it's peer with Onslaught. sure WAR has holmgang, but that's just an additional effect to it's invuln skill.

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Be careful what you wish for, otherwise SE will make Plunge cost MP and be a dps loss when used cooldown, lol

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

Be careful what you wish for, otherwise SE will make Plunge cost MP and be a dps loss when used cooldown, lol

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sounds good for me. i don't want to use my utility skills for damage anyway.

however, they should just increase the range already. getting pushed out of the range of plunge makes the gap closer almost useless...

Can it be put on Dark Mind?

Phantom Train (or rather Remorse') knockback is called All in the Mind or something like that.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

Be careful what you wish for, otherwise SE will make Plunge cost MP and be a dps loss when used cooldown, lol

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I'd rather it be DPS neutral (or slight loss, except it is a gain when it increases uptime), to be used as a mobility tool, and the overall damage be just rolled into a potency increase of heavy slash or something. Onslaught is a really well designed ability that is a tool that has a purpose rather than 'press on cooldown for damage'.

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

PLD: Tempered Will + Hallowed if you really need it (180s, 420s)
WAR: Timed charge + Holmgang (20s + 10 guage, 180s)
DRK: Timed leap (30s

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Inner release also negates knock back for WAR.

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Originally Posted by Phileas

Inner release also negates knock back for WAR.

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Wow. DRK should get it for delirium, although I'd be happy if it was tacked onto Dark Mind to bring it out of its magical damage only niche.

Add permanent knockback immunity if you wear 5 overmelded pieces of accessory to make up for SE's dumb tank gear design.

What if Salted Earth offered a passive buff to DRK whilst they are standing in it that negates most knockback attacks? Essentially the buff should last until you suffer knockback then it would disapate even if Earth is still on going. It shouldn't cause any major issues to DPS loss or anything in theory, but it's an idea.

Anti-knockback while standing in Salted Earth would be nearly 50% ultime, that's too much. Also since its part of your DPS rotation, it's used on CD or it's a DPS loss. I'd rather see it tied to Dark Mind. Or added to anticipation in tank roles, though PLD and WAR don't need anymore antiknockbacks.

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Originally Posted by Tint

sounds good for me. i don't want to use my utility skills for damage anyway.

however, they should just increase the range already. getting pushed out of the range of plunge makes the gap closer almost useless...

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Plunge is like at least 2-3% of your dps alone, without even considering the additional MP it grants during Blood Weapon. I mean, why would you willingly and knowingly do less damage? It's literally 1 more button to push every 30 seconds. You wouldn't think it's acceptable for a DRG to not use Jump, would you? Or a SCH to forgo Energy Drain?

To put it into perspective, Plunge is 400 potency a minute. Carve and Spit is 450 potency a minute. You wouldn't ignore Carve and Spit, would you?

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

or just make Plunge match it's peer with Onslaught. sure WAR has holmgang, but that's just an additional effect to it's invuln skill.

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Assuming you mean 100pot/15s cd (same as Onslaught), you just essentially give drk extra 53-105potency/minute, if they run 11 or 12hit Delirium gcd, respectively.

But if you mean make Plunge cost 20blood gauge then congratulations you make DRK unplayable. Onslaught and Upheaval cost 20 because Path gives 20. Souleater gives 10.
And if you think buffing Souleater to give 20 is fine, it isnt. DRK already plays like a bad WAR, that would just cement it.

The only change Plunge needs is a much faster animation, like Shoulder Tackle or Onslaught.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

Can it be put on Dark Mind?

...I'd rather it be DPS neutral (or slight loss, except it is a gain when it increases uptime), to be used as a mobility tool, and the overall damage be just rolled into a potency increase of heavy slash or something...

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I've actually been saying this..

• Make Dark Mind function as an anti-knockback, making it useful in situations when there will be no magical damage for 60s
• Reduce the potency of plunge to 100, making it less of a DPS loss when saved for utility. Increase Plunge range and reduce animation lock to match other gap closers.
• Add the potency taken from plunge to Dark Passenger, making it useful on single target.

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Originally Posted by Luin

Plunge is like at least 2-3% of your dps alone, without even considering the additional MP it grants during Blood Weapon. I mean, why would you willingly and knowingly do less damage? It's literally 1 more button to push every 30 seconds. You wouldn't think it's acceptable for a DRG to not use Jump, would you? Or a SCH to forgo Energy Drain?

To put it into perspective, Plunge is 400 potency a minute. Carve and Spit is 450 potency a minute. You wouldn't ignore Carve and Spit, would you?

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i think you don't understand my point.

of course i don't want to do LESS damage, but i also don't want to hold on Plunge to save it for knockbacks, since it's a dps loss right now.

i want to do my dps without worrying to waste my gap closer :O like they removed the damage from Stun and Silence.

they can simply remove the 200 potency here and put it to somewhere else, Dark Passenger for example xD

The only problem is it wouldn't make sense for plunge to do 0 damage, since it is a big overhead attack with a Greatsword. And there actually comes a point where increasing uptime is a gain vs a loss. So it depends on how much up to me you gain, and when. If DRK had a little more burst and less even DPS it would help with up time issues.

Can I have a gap closer for PLD in that case? Or would that be homogenizing?

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Originally Posted by Luin

Assuming you mean 100pot/15s cd (same as Onslaught), you just essentially give drk extra 53-105potency/minute, if they run 11 or 12hit Delirium gcd, respectively.

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I mean, if the whole complaint is that DRK doesn't do enough damage for the lack of utility it brings to a party, then why is them doing more damage a concern?