In another Sad but True Monk thread - Riddle of Wind remains Useless

It is still better to form shift to coerul stance and fire tackle - demolish back to where ever you're going.

If anyone has actually found a use for RoW, I'd love to discuss.

Did you actually theorycrafted that or just speaking with no evidence?

From my point of view this will change at least the monk openner in 4.2 . You don't need to be smart to see that.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Did you actually theorycrafted that or just speaking with no evidence?

From my point of view this will change at least the monk openner in 4.2 . You don't need to be smart to see that.

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The opener hasn't changed. Here is a recent thread with that discussion.

As for my own personal "evidence", I ran o5s before the maint. I could find no use for it.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

The opener hasn't changed. Here is a recent thread with that discussion.

As for my own personal "evidence", I ran o5s before the maint. I could find no use for it.

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That's really odd I though gaining a GS stack for free with a OGCD would definitelly change something in the openner.

In another Sad but REALLY whiny "True Monk" thread

So you are using theorycraft from BEFORE the patch even droped as facts?

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Originally Posted by Scremin

In another Sad but REALLY whiny "True Monk" thread

So you are using theorycraft from BEFORE the patch even droped as facts?

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If you have alternative openers and uses where RoW is not a dps loss, please post them. Discussions are still being had post-patch and it appears the opener will not change at all. As I mentioned, I've run Monk post patch and cannot find a use for it.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

That's really odd I though gaining a GS stack for free with a OGCD would definitelly change something in the openner.

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Yeah I thought so too, but looking back on it I can see more value in keeping FT for our big LOL moment (which got 5% LOLLER with the Brohood change).

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Originally Posted by Scremin

In another Sad but REALLY whiny "True Monk" thread

So you are using theorycraft from BEFORE the patch even droped as facts?

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We knew the patch notes like, a week ago. To theorycraft you just need to know what's changing, it doesn't need to have happened already.

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Originally Posted by Scremin

In another Sad but REALLY whiny "True Monk" thread

So you are using theorycraft from BEFORE the patch even droped as facts?

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Kinda curious why the pre patch argument is used here. The potencies nor mechanics were changed, the only thing it does is get a GL stack when using RoW. And a prerequisite for RoW is to: Be in FoW (loses 5% from FoFire) and use wind tackle at half the potency.

And yes I have used it after the patch and, outside of quirky, niche applications (and FoW being a DPS loss) RoW is just an alternative way to regain stacks if you for some odd reason have PB on CD and lost them.

RoW is useful in dungeons if, like me, you don't like spamming form shift constantly between pulls.

For primals and raids, will sit back and see what happens.

The only time I saw RoW being of use is when PB is on cooldown and waiting for the boss to reappear or get back to as a gap closer. Form Shift, Demolish/Snap Punch, RoW, Combo for 3 stacks. I was also curious if it would make Tornado Kick anymore relevant since you could get back up to 2 GL stacks within a GCD window. Again this was just a thought and Didn't know if it was worthwhile.

I've been trying to use TK when I have all my buffs and going TK, FoW, Snap, WT, Bootshine, RoW, FoF, Twin, etc

Maybe it would be better to delay 1 GCD so we get a 3GL Bootshine, then dump GL, using wind tackle and a low potency Twin Snakes which isn't such a big deal?

I dunno, honestly PB is almost always up now when needed so I'm just being unnecessarily flashy.

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Originally Posted by BucklesTrespen

I dunno, honestly PB is almost always up now when needed so I'm just being unnecessarily flashy.

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That's basically what it feels like with the fist stance swaps to achieve all this.

If they just put the GL stack on Wind Tackle and removed the 2nd charge it'd make more sense. Having GL / refresh GL on the second charge is as clunky and un-intuitive as I feared :/

how do the mnk dps numbers feel like atm on dummues or in pfs / compared to other class in the party etc.?

(keeping up with sam or more??)

I use ROW for my openner though,I’m not doing math so i don’t know if its better or worse for my dps.
To be honest,I’m kinda having fun with this extra buttons to smash including using PB for extra dps.
So far these new changes have benefited me in many ways so I’ll stick with them for the time being until most monks confirm that the old openner is better.

Monk in world first rip sam/casters not rdm the balancing struggle continues another expansion. Cheers!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Kinda curious why the pre patch argument is used here. The potencies nor mechanics were changed, the only thing it does is get a GL stack when using RoW. And a prerequisite for RoW is to: Be in FoW (loses 5% from FoFire) and use wind tackle at half the potency.

And yes I have used it after the patch and, outside of quirky, niche applications (and FoW being a DPS loss) RoW is just an alternative way to regain stacks if you for some odd reason have PB on CD and lost them.

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The pre-patch argument is valid simply because there's a big difference between theorycrafting and actual experiment, even if the paramaters doesn't change much, it is STILL a change, one that theorycrafting alone cannot point out without the actual experimentation. I'm not saying it's proven now or no that the prepatch theory changed, but there are already rough drafts of another openner that increase dps even if its for a bit, SO its not "niche aplications" like you claimed, and like that reddit theory claimed, and my original post was just a trolling because, because I'm REALLY sick of drama queens atitude like OP one in the thread title, but then again, this whole forum is one big bad drama sometimes.

I do the pull with wind tackle still so that I can Tornado Kick under Riddle of Fire and still have Perfect Balance available to immediately regain my stacks. It seems easier than changing to fists afterwards.

RoW isn’t useless and I have described why in another post how it can be utilized and maximized to be able to get higher numbers than pre 4.2 Monk’s opener. I would link it, but phone links from the forum site ain’t reliable and will take you to the front page without seeing the post. If you’d like to see how it’s broken down, please visit the second latest monk thread discussing the opener.

even if ppl think RoW is useless i think it gives lot of freshness to mnk in general. If its in the opener or your general rotation in the fight. Stance dancing between Fists of Fire and Fists of Wind and using Tornado Kick every 30 sec is fun (if u can). Im rly happy just with those changes. Ofc. if they made it in to single oGCD Shoulder Tackle and Wind Tackle that would be ideal.

Either way using Internal Release and Perfect Balance every 1min with Bootshine +every 3min with RoF+BH Forbidden Chakra *orgasm*.

I'd say RoW and PB down to 60s actually change MNK's rotation considering how buffs are multiplicative. Haven't test it a lot though because ACT wasn't available until like yesterday. But anyway I can say that it's definitely not useless.

https://youtu.be/6ngQMKftoqY
I have made a Monk opener/rotation video as a source for mid maxers to take from and polish if possible.

This opener has net me an increase of 900 dps compared to the traditional PB opener. It has also roughly raised my dps from 4343 to 4528. Close to 200 dps but the gap will widen slowly as I get better gear.

Also for those who will point out that I do clip my GCDs, yes I’m an NA player, playing on EU servers, cut me some slack. There’s also a minor mess on the first PB I use. Forgive me, it’s hard to record perfection with such a complex rotation.

I’ll be posting a Reddit post tomorrow morning.

As a scrub monk, I will say Riddle of Wind now actually serves a purpose. It's not what I've vocalized wanting (Make it interact with tornado kick) but it's close enough and enables it.

i attempted weaving the riddle of wind into my opener but being out of fist of fire for even that short amount of time is a dps loss, every test i did with riddle of wind compared to test i did without i had higher DPS without, not by much mind you like 10-20. Now this could have also been due to bad RNG with crits and chakra mastery, but I could also see it as a dps loss from not being in fist of fire for the first few hits of your opener

Riddle of Wind now has something of a niche use in dungeons at the very least, you can rev up to 3 GL3 stacks in 4 GCDs instead of 7, so it's certainly an improvement, but it still misses the point of why Tackle Mastery is so derided. The Fist Stances are still a non-choice, you only want to be in Fire.