The Twelve: Who were they...?

Lore question! As a roleplayer I've enjoyed bits of lore SE has littered around but there's one thing that has eluded me... What were the races of each member of the Twelve?

Taken from Eorzeapedia.com

Quote:

---

Nald'thal is the brother of Oschon. Oschon is the brother of Nald'thal, Menphina's lover, and the teacher of Halone.
Menphina is the sister of Azeyma, Oschon's lover, and the daughter of Althyk.
Azeyma is the sister of Menphina, Thaliak's lover, the daughter of Althyk, and the mother of Llymlaen and Nophica.
Thaliak is the teacher of Byregot, Azeyma's lover, and the father of Llymlaen and Nophica.
Rhalgr is the apprentice of Nymeia and the father of Byregot and Halone.
Althyk is the brother of Nymeia, the father of Menphina and Azeyma, and the grandfather of Llymlaen and Nophica.
Nymeia it the sister of Althyk and Rhalgr's master.
Llymlaen is the sister of Nophica, is the daughter of Azeyma and Thaliak, and is the grandaughter of Althyk.
Nophica is the sister of Llymlaen, is the daughter of Azeyma and Thaliak, is the grandaughter of Athlyk, and is rivals with Halone.
Byregot is the brother of Halone, the son of Rhalgr, and the student of Thaliak.
Halone is the sister of Byregot, the daughter of Rhalgr, the student of Oschon, and the rival of Nophica.

---

So as we see each of the Twelve were somehow connected with one another. Yet the question remains, why are they worshipped in Eorzea? And what were their races? The Twelve are considered the Gods of Eorzea, but were they the ones who created Eorzea or Hydaelyn for that matter? Are the Twelve believed in and worshipped all over Hydaelyn or only in Eorzea? Hopefully the dev team can dig up some more tidbits of lore for us on all this.

The first Astral Era was considered the time of the gods. The coming of the first umbral era brought about the end of their time.

From what I can infer, the Twelve are not of the five races we know, but of that god-race of the first Astral era. Though they may be depicted as of the five races on occasion - Nophica is depicted holding the gridanian flag on the grand company pages. To depict a god as being like yourself is a common earthly thing to do (look at the greek gods).

They are also thought to appear as archons during an umbral era - Rhalgr is said to have come to Eorzea and taken the form of a Roegadyn during the last umbral era.

I am also of the understanding that lore regarding the Twelve will be more prominent in 2.0 once the current interim plot line is wrapped up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mihana

Lore question! As a roleplayer I've enjoyed bits of lore SE has littered around but there's one thing that has eluded me... What were the races of each member of the Twelve?

Taken from Eorzeapedia.com



So as we see each of the Twelve were somehow connected with one another. Yet the question remains, why are they worshipped in Eorzea? And what were their races? The Twelve are considered the Gods of Eorzea, but were they the ones who created Eorzea or Hydaelyn for that matter? Are the Twelve believed in and worshipped all over Hydaelyn or only in Eorzea? Hopefully the dev team can dig up some more tidbits of lore for us on all this.

---

It's been hinted at by the devs that belief in The Twelve is mostly exclusive to Eorzea. But you'll find those inEorzea who don't believe just like there likely are those outside who do.

I hope 2.0 focuses on this. It seems 1.x is all about the Garleans and doomsday.

There is some lore scattered around in books in the Thaumaturge guild and Muy Tun Cellars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephrick

It's been hinted at by the devs that belief in The Twelve is mostly exclusive to Eorzea. But you'll find those inEorzea who don't believe just like there likely are those outside who do.

I hope 2.0 focuses on this. It seems 1.x is all about the Garleans and doomsday.

There is some lore scattered around in books in the Thaumaturge guild and Muy Tun Cellars.

---

oh there are readable books hidden in the cellars? i didnt know about that, gotta find them now! ^~^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephrick

There is some lore scattered around in books in the Thaumaturge guild and Muy Tun Cellars.

---

The books in the Thaumaturges Guildhall in Ul'dah are also found in the Conjurers Guildhall In Gridania and the Arcanists Guildhall (Mealvaan's Gate) in Limsa Lominsa. Much of interest there about elements and the Eorzean calendar. The books in the Muy Tuy Cellars I don't know; I'll have to search them out.

Fernehalwes, the localization guy posted about this I think. The Twelve are worshipped only in Eorzea. Also the world planner mentioned that there are some BIG revelations about the Twelve in the game's story, which is currently unreleased due to the 2 year long game revamp.

The Twelve are a bunch of jerks.

/em curses the Twelve.
/em fume motion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

The Twelve are a bunch of jerks.

---

Someone steal your sweet roll?

/is shot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

The Twelve are a bunch of jerks.

---

No they are a bunch of bigger Moogle.

This might be relevant, so I'll drop it in here - it's the source for my assertion that the first astral era was that of the gods, a post in the German forums that I've translated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasunaich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXGhostXx

Die sprechen ja dir ganze zeit von der 7. Katastrophe was ist denn mit den ersten 6 :) konnte da jemand in der story, quests was rauslesen wurde mal was davon erwähnt ?
They're always talking about the 7th Catastrophe (read: Umbral Era - I'll use this term henceforth since it's commonly used for the same description in English as "Catastrophe" is in German.), but what is with the first six? :) Could anyone read anything out of the story/quests? Was anything about them mentioned?

---

Ich habe mich wissensdurstig an das "World Environment Design"-Team gewandt und eine recht ausführliche Antwort auf deine Frage erhalten:
Thirsty for knowledge, I turned to the "World Environment Design" team and obtained a rather comprehensive answer:

Quote:

---

Vielen Dank für eure Fragen.
Thank you for your questions.

Was ist in den vorherigen Katastrophen passiert ?
Je länger diese Katastrophen zurückliegen, desto weniger Hinweise haben wir, die uns verraten könnten, was genau passiert ist. Diejenigen, die jetzt in Eorzea leben, können nur darüber spekulieren und sich ein Bild von der Vergangenheit basierend auf Mythen und Lore machen.
Aber da die noch recht junge 6. Katastrophe (die allerdings auch schon rund 1.500 Jahre her ist) ein äußerst bedeutendes historisches Ereignis war, gibt es darüber noch immer viele Aufzeichnungen, die uns nachvollziehen lassen, was damals passiert ist.
What happened in the earlier Umbral Eras?
The further back in history the era is, the less clues we have that can tell us as to what exactly happened. Those who live in Eorzea now can only speculate and construct a picture of the past based on myths and lore.
But because the still rather recent 6th Umbral Era (although it was already about 1,500 years ago) was such a highly significant event in history, there are still many records on the topic that allow us to reconstruct what happened.

Theologen und Historiker haben viele Quellen studiert und daraus abgeleitet, was in der ersten bis sechsten Katastrophe vorgefallen ist.
1. Die Windkatastrophe. Dies war das Ende der göttlichen und gleichzeitig der Beginn der menschlichen Ära.
2. Die Blitz-Katastrophe
3. Die Feuer-Katastrophe
4. Die Erd-Katastrophe
5. Die Eis-Katastrophe
6. Die Wasser-Katastrophe. Aufgrund einer starken Überflutung wurden viele Teile Eorzeas überschwämmt und beschädigt.
Theologists and Historians have studied many sources and from them concluded what struck in the first through sixth Umbral eras.
1. The Umbral Era of Wind. This was the end of the divine's era and simultaneously the beginning of men's era. (NB: German uses the term "Menschen" to describe humankind without any connotations of gender or race - so this does not mean specifically an era of Hyur. The closest comparable term in English for the mythological context in "men" although "humanity" would be more accurate. I suspect the English localisation team would choose to phrase it differently.)
2. The Umbral Era of Lightning.
3. The Umbral Era of Fire.
4. The Umbral Era of Earth.
5. The Umbral Era of Ice.
6. The Umbral Era of Water. Severe flooding caused the submersion and damage of many parts of Eorzea.

Da alle sechs Katastrophen auf den sechs Elementen basieren, haben die Menschen geglaubt, dass es keine weitere geben wird. Aufgrund der Entdeckung der 7. Prophezeiung Mezayas fangen sie nun jedoch an, an eine bevorstehende 7. Katastrophe zu glauben.
Because all six Umbral eras are based on the six elements, the people have believed that there will be no more. But since the discovery of the 7th Verse of Mezaya's prophesy, they are instead beginning to believe in an impending 7th Umbral Era.

---

---

And then we have a tidbit that Ferne dropped on one occasion:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

FUN FACT: It is believed by some that the first six hells are each aspected to one of the six elements, and that the seventh hell, where the lord of the underworld resides, represents eternal oblivion.

---

The eras, elements and deities all seem intertwined somehow. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Primals were a strong part of it. - They may even be manifestations of the Twelve themselves, although that is pure speculation on my part. To round things off, something else from Ferne a while back:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Hello, all!

This is Fernehalwes from the Localization team. Some of you may know me from such posts as "Thanks! That bug will we fixed in the coming patch!" and "Great catch! The erroneous comma will be removed and reflected in patch 1.XXa!"

I've also been known (once in a blue moon) to post juicy tidbits of Eorzean lore, which was why I was called upon to address the issue of the Gridanian Grand Company poster released earlier this month.

There has been much speculation that the...er...well-endowed woman depicted could be the Elder Seedseer, Kan-E-Senna. However, as has been pointed out by many an astute fan, the woman in the poster lacks the telltale horns seen on Padjals. So, who then, could this goddess-like figure be?

Well it turns out that it actually is a goddess--the guardian deity of Gridania, in fact.

(From the Character Creation screen)

"Nophica, tender of soils and harvests and goddess of abundance, is the guardian deity of Gridania. She commands the element of earth and is associated with the eleventh moon of the Eorzean calendar. Nophica is the daughter of Azeyma, and the younger sister of Llymlaen. She is most often depicted as a jubilant farmer holding a scythe of steel. Her symbol is the spring leaf."

(From residents of Eorzea)

"The Twelveswood is a vast forest set aside just for the elementals by the Matron, Nophica. It was here long before we came, and will remain long after we are gone."

"Just as Nophica's bounty helps Her children to grow, so too does the blessing of experience help young men and women grow into noble servants of the land."

"Do you not know that hymn of Nophica? It's an old favorite among farmers and harvesters.
Sun's sweet smile and wind's cool breath♪
Both of these I send thee♪
To ripe thy fruit and spread thy seed♪
And nourish those that tend thee.♪"

In short, Nophica is a mother-figure associated with bountiful harvests, fertility, and nature...hence the tendency for artists to incorporate these themes into her appearance and...er, physique.

I hope that clears everything up!
See you all again in the Localization forums!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

No they are a bunch of bigger Moogle.

---

I misread that so wrong at first. . .

To understand who the Twelve are we first need to understand their parentage. We know Althyk was the father of Azeyma but who was her mother? Who was Llymlaen's mother? The family trees are woefully incomplete and in dire need of more information.

A bunch of brothers and sisters who were banging each other or something like that. I Dunno..

Hello, all!

This is Fernehalwes from the Localization team. Some of you may know me from such posts as "Thanks! That bug will we fixed in the coming patch!" and "Great catch! The erroneous comma will be removed and reflected in patch 1.XXa!"

I've also been known (once in a blue moon) to post juicy tidbits of Eorzean lore, which was why I was called upon to address the issue of the Gridanian Grand Company poster released earlier this month.

There has been much speculation that the...er...well-endowed woman depicted could be the Elder Seedseer, Kan-E-Senna. However, as has been pointed out by many an astute fan, the woman in the poster lacks the telltale horns seen on Padjals. So, who then, could this goddess-like figure be?

Well it turns out that it actually is a goddess--the guardian deity of Gridania, in fact.

(From the Character Creation screen)

"Nophica, tender of soils and harvests and goddess of abundance, is the guardian deity of Gridania. She commands the element of earth and is associated with the eleventh moon of the Eorzean calendar. Nophica is the daughter of Azeyma, and the younger sister of Llymlaen. She is most often depicted as a jubilant farmer holding a scythe of steel. Her symbol is the spring leaf."

(From residents of Eorzea)

"The Twelveswood is a vast forest set aside just for the elementals by the Matron, Nophica. It was here long before we came, and will remain long after we are gone."

"Just as Nophica's bounty helps Her children to grow, so too does the blessing of experience help young men and women grow into noble servants of the land."

"Do you not know that hymn of Nophica? It's an old favorite among farmers and harvesters.
Sun's sweet smile and wind's cool breath♪
Both of these I send thee♪
To ripe thy fruit and spread thy seed♪
And nourish those that tend thee.♪"

In short, Nophica is a mother-figure associated with bountiful harvests, fertility, and nature...hence the tendency for artists to incorporate these themes into her appearance and...er, physique.

I hope that clears everything up!
See you all again in the Localization forums!

Hmmmmmm never seen this before, what picture was this in reference to?

Think of it like the Ancient Greek Olympian gods. A lot of them were related with sprawling family trees, but it didn't matter what race they were. They were gods.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimoi

Think of it like the Ancient Greek Olympian gods. A lot of them were related with sprawling family trees, but it didn't matter what race they were. They were gods.

---

http://i44.tinypic.com/2zykk10.png

It's interesting to look at.
I made another just to look it over in family tree format.
http://i44.tinypic.com/6nr390.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OrionInerghem

Hmmmmmm never seen this before, what picture was this in reference to?

---

The picture he's talking about was this: http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl...g01.png?_v=7j4

I kinda wish one of the devs would take notice and maybe clear up the incomplete parentage issue in the lore. Kind of a glaring problem when trying to understand the relationships of the twelve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finiteHP

The picture he's talking about was this: http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl...g01.png?_v=7j4

---

Dats pretty Hawt.

Another point to ponder is that while the civilized races worship the Twelve - the beastmen only worship their respective Primal. I've tried to make a connection between Primals and the Twelve and it does not appear to be there.

One dynamic to look at however is that if Bahamut was imprisoned in the past and during the most recent Umbral era the Archons failed to imprison him again - it's probably "somewhat safe" to assume the original Twelve actually were successful in imprisoning him (and probably for a good reason, right?) in their time. My guess is that the intervention of the Garleans this time around (although for all we know, they may have been around during other eras as well) caused Bahamut to become too powerful and thus break the seal.

My suspicion would be that the Twelve and Primals were original inhabitants of the world/came from somewhere else to inhabit this area and there was some strife involved there. Ifrit downright wanted everyone dead if I remember correctly - and Bahamut pretty much wiped humanity off the face of the planet until he (was?) stopped.

Does anyone remember a point where Ifrit referred to the Twelve and/or Dalamund? I think I remember him speaking on Dalamund - it's been some time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skavian

Another point to ponder is that while the civilized races worship the Twelve - the beastmen only worship their respective Primal. I've tried to make a connection between Primals and the Twelve and it does not appear to be there.

One dynamic to look at however is that if Bahamut was imprisoned in the past and during the most recent Umbral era the Archons failed to imprison him again - it's probably "somewhat safe" to assume the original Twelve actually were successful in imprisoning him (and probably for a good reason, right?) in their time. My guess is that the intervention of the Garleans this time around (although for all we know, they may have been around during other eras as well) caused Bahamut to become too powerful and thus break the seal.

My suspicion would be that the Twelve and Primals were original inhabitants of the world/came from somewhere else to inhabit this area and there was some strife involved there. Ifrit downright wanted everyone dead if I remember correctly - and Bahamut pretty much wiped humanity off the face of the planet until he (was?) stopped.

Does anyone remember a point where Ifrit referred to the Twelve and/or Dalamund? I think I remember him speaking on Dalamund - it's been some time.

---

Sorry but the Twelve have nothing to do with the sealing of Bahamut. The Allagan Empire sealed him away with technology. We're not sure if Bahamut caused the downfall of the Allagan Empire or it was a later thing. People say the Twelve and Louisoix failed to seal Bahamut and ushered in the Seventh Umbral era, but the only "proof" of the Twelve are the symbols that formed during the sealing, which doesn't prove the Twelve had anything to do with it more so it seemed simply to be a sealing spell similar and or based upon what the Allagan Empire used.

Ifrit is relatively calm compared to Garuda. Garuda is pretty blood driven. Ifrit merely tells us that he does not want us to summon our Primal. Which of course has lead to MANY a conversations..lol Siren.

Ultimately Nael van Darnus fed the aether of Eorzea, Ifrit, and Garuda to Dalamud which empowered Bahamut..or at least indirectly. Sort of like how Nidhogg controlled Estinien, we could say Bahamut controlled Nael van Darnus..even while imprisoned which Bahamut is an Elder Primal while Nidhogg is a wyrm so it stands to be that his control would be stronger.

As we ran the dungeons in 1.0, all the different Imperial Devices, were Van Darnus' doing. Sending his troops into these different areas to harness the aether, which somehow was probably transferred to the Lunar Transmitter in Castrum Novum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Sorry but the Twelve have nothing to do with the sealing of Bahamut. The Allagan Empire sealed him away with technology. We're not sure if Bahamut caused the downfall of the Allagan Empire or it was a later thing. People say the Twelve and Louisoix failed to seal Bahamut and ushered in the Seventh Umbral era, but the only "proof" of the Twelve are the symbols that formed during the sealing, which doesn't prove the Twelve had anything to do with it more so it seemed simply to be a sealing spell similar and or based upon what the Allagan Empire used.

Ifrit is relatively calm compared to Garuda. Garuda is pretty blood driven. Ifrit merely tells us that he does not want us to summon our Primal. Which of course has lead to MANY a conversations..lol Siren.

Ultimately Nael van Darnus fed the aether of Eorzea, Ifrit, and Garuda to Dalamud which empowered Bahamut..or at least indirectly. Sort of like how Nidhogg controlled Estinien, we could say Bahamut controlled Nael van Darnus..even while imprisoned which Bahamut is an Elder Primal while Nidhogg is a wyrm so it stands to be that his control would be stronger.

As we ran the dungeons in 1.0, all the different Imperial Devices, were Van Darnus' doing. Sending his troops into these different areas to harness the aether, which somehow was probably transferred to the Lunar Transmitter in Castrum Novum.

---

Thank you for clearing up my mistake! :)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...lationship.png

Possible new information. To me, this makes much more sense, but there are still two problems... Althyk and Rhalgr appear to be able to give birth by themselves. Is it possible that Nymeia got together with her servant Rhalgr? Althyk could not have mated with Azeyma or Menphina because they are his daughters... Could not have been Llymlaen or Nophica either as they are his granddaughters through Azeyma. This would leave either his sister Nymeia or Halone.

Please Fernehalwes, come back to the lore forums! We needeth thy wisdom!

http://ffxiv-ramesses.blogspot.com/2...be-ffxivs.html

Almost forgot to site my source! They also have a nice element wheel going on...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

http://ffxiv-ramesses.blogspot.com/2...be-ffxivs.html

Almost forgot to site my source! They also have a nice element wheel going on...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...veCalendar.png

---

My, this is getting cross-posted a lot, so I'm afraid I have to cut in here as well.
Your source is from June 2010, well before the game's release. Between these stages of version 1.0 beta and release, the month associations changed, making this chart inaccurate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catapult

My, this is getting cross-posted a lot, so I'm afraid I have to cut in here as well.
Your source is from June 2010, well before the game's release. Between these stages of version 1.0 beta and release, the month associations changed, making this chart inaccurate.

---

lol, I am active in both threads here and in lore that regard the 12 deities. We select one at char creation and I can only assume there is some effect later on so I want to know as much as I can about them ahead of time.

Thank you very much for the correction. I removed the old calendar from my post, but I am keeping the family tree (despite the moon phases) simply because it is relevant to the discussion. Thank you again for alerting me to that!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Twelve/page4

Please look to Akubikumo's post in a similar thread in the lore forum. She has presented some VERY interesting work. She has overlapped Anonymoose's current chart with the circle of elements and noticed a few interesting things...

They were those guys... Who took those steps... You know.. :P

The twelve are a form of Spiritus Mundi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

The twelve are a form of Spiritus Mundi

---

That just raises more questions!

As far as races go, I remember posting on the FF wiki about this back when I was doing a relevant quest. The archons are believed by some to be the manifestations of the Twelve - that is, they're avatars of the Twelve, similar to how some believe Jesus is both the son and the flesh-bound embodiment of God.

The quest spoke of Ahldbhar (Old Bear), the Roegadyn incarnation of Rhalgr. If memory serves, the NPC brought him up in reference to artwork that depicted him. If any of the loremongers that have the in-game text recorded somewhere would like to drum up the specifics, please do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yrusama

As far as races go, I remember posting on the FF wiki about this back when I was doing a relevant quest. The archons are believed by some to be the manifestations of the Twelve - that is, they're avatars of the Twelve, similar to how some believe Jesus is both the son and the flesh-bound embodiment of God.

The quest spoke of Ahldbhar (Old Bear), the Roegadyn incarnation of Rhalgr. If memory serves, the NPC brought him up in reference to artwork that depicted him. If any of the loremongers that have the in-game text recorded somewhere would like to drum up the specifics, please do.

---

Here you go.

Quote:

---

Tyago Moui: They say Ahldbhar was the mightiest of the twelve Archons. Rhalgr the Destroyer himself, taken form in Roegadyn flesh─a bloody mountain of a man, and a fearsome warrior, besides. Not unlike our friend at the Coliseum, eh?

Tyago Moui: You must've seen renderings of Rhalgr at some point─in paint or stone. Looks like a bag of angry muscles in a mage's robes, right? Aye, well, those are done in the likeness of Archon Ahldbhar.

Tyago Moui: Ahldbhar fought relentlessly against a clan of wicked sorcerers that sought only to wreak havoc on the world through their dark powers. But then, something happened... Something that threw Ahldbhar into deep despair. And in the end, he turned and took up with the enemy, though none can say as to why.

Tyago Moui: What came of him after his betrayal? Well, I confess I haven't heard the end of the tale myself. That bard's a wily bugger, see, and he only ever gets part way through before his throat dries out. Meaning I have to give him yet another bloody ale─free of charge, of course.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

The twelve are a form of Spiritus Mundi

---

Forgive me but... what is Spiritus Mundi? Where did this info come from? You got me curious now.