Suggestion for Tornado Kick(Monk)

Ok so we all know that Tornado kick is currently completly useless due to the fact it consumes 3 stacks of GL.

The suggestion i am making would make it viable in rotation and fit in with the new Monk changes that are comeing.

Instead of making Tornado kick consume 3 stacks of Greased lightning make it consume 1 stack of greased Lightning.However change to cooldown to lets say 40 seconds or so.

This would work given the fact that Riddle of Wind is probably going to give us one stack of GL.It would also make the skill viable in a Monk opener with stance switching.

Would be interested to hear other monks thoughts on this.

Gonna hold the phone until we see how many stacks of GL RoW gives in 4.2, but I am a fan of the idea that Tornado Kick becomes MNKs OCGD heavy hitter like Bhavacakra.

I personally liked the suggestion a while agro saying SB should have opened the 7th Chakra for Monks, then Tornado Kick (long cooldown like you say) unlocks on the 7th and consumes 2, allowing for a burst window with TK / TFC wombo combo. Simialr again to Ninja's choice between Bhavacakra and Hellfrog.

But yeah, hope this thread stays active until after 4.2 and we can all put our heads together and see if SE helped MNK or made it needlessly more convoluted.

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Originally Posted by BucklesTrespen

... see if SE helped MNK or made it needlessly more convoluted.

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My money's on the latter.

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Originally Posted by BucklesTrespen

Gonna hold the phone until we see how many stacks of GL RoW gives in 4.2

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...61#post4541661
Got updated today -- gonna be just on Riddle of Wind, which is the second one. Now I *suppose* it's possible that when they say it gives Greased Lightning they mean GL2 or GL3 but... yeah prolly not.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...61#post4541661
Got updated today -- gonna be just on Riddle of Wind, which is the second one...

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Oh my god, if it's truly on the second then that is so dumb. That is so dumb I cannot think of an adequately dumb analogy.

That is as dumb as putting a door in front of an emergency exit.
That is as dumb as putting a freezer inside a fridge.
That is, ugh... still gonna hold the phone on this.
Wait and see, Bucky... Wait and see.....

Dear SE / Devs / anyone in any position to read this and pass it on...

Dragoon does not have to use Blood of the Dragon twice to reset their timer.
Black Mage does not have to use Enochian twice to reset their timer.

Why do you keep making Monk needlessly complicated? Make it simple.

Monks have to press many more buttons than other classes just to keep our class mechanic active. This is unfair. You said you wanted to close the gap between Monk skill levels and make them more forgiving, but then you add too many steps to a simple process.

You have given us a way to keep Greased Lightning but put it behind three keystrokes and also attached to a skill that we use in our rotation because it has a high potency in Fists of Fire.

Please consider something like the following:
Remove Potency from all Shoulder Tackles and apply the potency to Steel Peak.
Give Monks an actual Riddle of Wind skill button just like how there is a Riddle of Fire and Riddle of Earth skill button.
Allow this new Riddle of Wind to automatically put us into Fists of Wind.
Allow this new Riddle of Wind to reset the cooldown of Shoulder Tackle.
Wind Tackle only has 1 charge and will refresh the cooldown of Greased Lightning on use.

This will solve the problem of our Greased Lightning refresh / granting skill to not be used in our DPS rotation. It will always be on cooldown when we need it.

Dragoon Elusive Jump does no damage so it is always available to them.
Black Mage Aetherial Manipulation does no damage so it is always available to them.
Monk Shoulder Tackle should do no damage so it is always available to us.

For the love of-- please consider making simpler and more user-friendly changes.

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Originally Posted by BucklesTrespen

Dragoon Elusive Jump does no damage so it is always available to them.

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yet drg jumps do dmg(and 2 of them can make them get closer to the enemy)

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Originally Posted by Xau

yet drg jumps do dmg(and 2 of them can make them get closer to the enemy)

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Elusive jump is a damageless backstep for mobility, Monk has no such skill. It's just the least Mobile Melee for no good reason with half the gap closers of DRG and no free movement skills/backsteps.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Elusive jump is a damageless backstep for mobility, Monk has no such skill. It's just the least Mobile Melee for no good reason with half the gap closers of DRG and no free movement skills/backsteps.

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The point of Elusive Jump, as I understand it, isn't mobility as much as its an enmity dump since the skill halves it. But then that brings up the same issue that monk also has no enmity dump.

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Originally Posted by BucklesTrespen

Monks have to press many more buttons than other classes just to keep our class mechanic active. This is unfair. You said you wanted to close the gap between Monk skill levels and make them more forgiving, but then you add too many steps to a simple process.

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You've to press 3 buttons each combo cycle. How is that a lot of buttons to keep your class mechanic alive. The only jobs that have their DPS rotation down to less than that are Healers. And even their cycles can be described as 2+ GCD buttons.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

You've to press 3 buttons each combo cycle. How is that a lot of buttons to keep your class mechanic alive. The only jobs that have their DPS rotation down to less than that are Healers. And even their cycles can be described as 2+ GCD buttons.

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I think he/she is talking about how MNKs feel they need to do a dog and pony show to keep their GL buff up vs every other DPS. Personally, it's unnecessarily extended how, barring PB. MNK needs to do 3 buttons for anything GL related, which is not bad. But Riddle of Wind will be a 3 button thing and in no way different than FS x2 and Demo, sans damage.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Elusive jump is a damageless backstep for mobility, Monk has no such skill. It's just the least Mobile Melee for no good reason with half the gap closers of DRG and no free movement skills/backsteps.

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me point there is what he is comparing a gap widen skill whit a gap closer skill, asking what shoulder tackle should have no dmg, yet not asking the same or similar treatment for drg gap closer skills(either no dmg for the movility, or not gap closing for the dmg), elusive jump, albeit it can be used as a gap closer, isn't meant to be used that way by desing

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Originally Posted by Xau

me point there is what he is comparing a gap widen skill whit a gap closer skill, asking what shoulder tackle should have no dmg, yet not asking the same or similar treatment for drg gap closer skills(either no dmg for the movility, or not gap closing for the dmg), elusive jump, albeit it can be used as a gap closer, isn't meant to be used that way by desing

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Well, when you think about it each jump DRG can do it does something different, be it gap closer (SSD and DFD), aoe (DFD), stun(SSD), long range strike(All), or enmity dump(EJ). MNK "nominally" as of stormblood has the same number of options but all of them are gap closers with glued gimmicks that still have less use than all the jump options DRG has, ignoring the fact that all 4 of DRGs jumps are unique buttons vs MNKs tackles all branching from the same one.

tl;dr: MNK has nothing that gives them mobility without doing damage and the player is asking to scrap damage on shoulder tackle if that would mean more mobility for the melee dps that has very little of it.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

MNK "nominally" as of stormblood has the same number of options

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none of the 3 fists makes shoulder tackle do aoe, neither makes one of them be a gap wider(as in the fact what you get far away from the enemy and not you get closer to it to push it away from you), nor long range attack, all 3 still works as "gap closers" albeit earth one is very ankward for its knockback effect what serves no purpose at all on most content

second, elusive jump, is a complete diferent skill at all, comparing it to shoulder tackle is wrong for the fact what they serve complete diferent purposes as i said earlier, one is meant for you to get closer to the enemy, the other is meant to take you away from it(the best whay to compare dragon EL is by comparing it to rdm displacement), besides what earth tackle is not that kind of skill just for the fact what its knock back effect does not work half of the time because the majority of the enemies are not affected by it, so is a error call that variation of shoulder tackle be a gap wider

as for mobility, that needs to be a new skill, because shoulder tackle was never a "mobility" skill per se, is just meant to be a gap closer, once you are close to the enemy is just free dmg, to be a mobility skill, it needs to be something what does not require something to be targeted to be used, elusive jump or shukuchi for example, both can be used while you have no target, but shoulder tackle can't be used whit no target

edit: also what i consider as mobility is skills what allows you freely move where you want, shoulder tackle and jumps do not allows you that, since its direction is always the same, towards the targeted enemy, elusive jump, albeit meant as a gap wider, it can be used too as a gap closer if used correctly, as well for move you faster on a direction outside of battle, shukuchi is the true mobility skill as for now, since it does not have the awkwardness of elusive jump requiring you to place your back on the direction you want to go, tho is still somehow awkward to be used for controler players

So with RoW granting a GL stack wouldn't it be important to weave a Tornado Kick right before a Snap Punch, RoW, Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch for 3 stacks? So instead of taking 7 GCD's it is down to 4? with only one GCD being at 0 GL Stacks and 3 being at 2 GL stacks? You could do RoW immediately following TK but I would be worried about animation lock during the GCD cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Xau

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That still doesn't change that my explanation was to guide you to his perspective. Hence why I loosely used the term "nominally". Ideally we would need a "true mobility" skill (to adhere to your term and avoid unnecessary walls if text) but we know that this is very unlikely.

That the option to have maybe riddle of wind be a gap closer that sacrifices damage for the gl reset/stack of whatever is a much more realistic approach. But again, that is under what I personally assume is their perspective.