Suggestion: Monk dragon kick change

so, I was reading reddit recently on the topic of greedy DPS, as in DPS that do not offer as much, if any, raid utility to others, such as black mage, and it was mentioned that a dragoon with bard and machinist back up can already eclipse it in terms of DPS because of the piercing damage debuff that helps everyone and then something occurred.

Dragoons benefit 2 other classes as well as itself. Ninja benefits samurai, warrior, and dark knight with its slashing debuff. Summoner does so as well to an extent for those who like to use Garuda. Monk benefits ONLY itself with its blunt debuff, which AFAIK, no other class in the game has.

So, I would suggest that that blunt debuff be changed to a physical vulnerability debuff in general. Even if you cut the debuff in half to 5%, the fact that other members of the team are benefitting from that would still show an increase in raid wide DPS.

Monk already has that, it's called Brotherhood.

Could also change it so it effects blunt dmg and a magic debuff like Foes

Let's just make a new blunt class instead! :D

Change MCH to Blunt based damage and that opens up different comps. Granted, I'm not really a fan of how dependent BRD/MCH are on another job for their damage.

i don't tink they will do any kind of change of this kind since... SE seems like is very stubborn about making very relevant drg, nin and brd, and making every other dps job fight for the fourth slot

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Let's just make a new blunt class instead! :D

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How about those guys who carry coffins on their arms in POTD?

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Originally Posted by Pondera

Monk benefits ONLY itself with its blunt debuff, which AFAIK, no other class in the game has.

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While not exactly the focus of the classes, WHM BLM SCH SMN and maybe AST are all Blunt in terms of their melee damage output. So while saying MNK is the only Blunt class may be correct in practical terms, it is not factually correct.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Monk already has that, it's called Brotherhood.

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not exactly what I'm talking about. Dragoon's piercing debuff grants extra damage to machinist, itself, and bard, and if the player knows what they are doing, this is kept up nearly 100% of the time and has no max radius single it effects a single target. Brotherhood has a 90s CD, and a 15 yalm radius, so even when a monk can generate the effect, some people could be missed with the effect.

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Originally Posted by Pondera

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What you're asking for is for Monk to be taken instead of Dragoon. Dragoon won't matter anymore because who wants to benefit three party members when they can benefit six? Let alone the fact that it would be a constant buff kept up on the boss (or kept up as much as possible). It would be insanely overpowered. Since that takes piercing resistance out of the question, you don't even need to consider Battle Litany anymore when Monk can essentially bring in it's own Trick Attack for physical jobs every three minutes when you combine Brotherhood with the "new" Dragon Kick. It just means healers and casters, yet again, get screwed because of the lack of party utility for them... but you also screw over Dragoons now too.

5% Physical Vulnerability benefits not only the Monk themselves, but the Ninja, Bard, Machinist and tanks that are in the party. It would essentially make MNK "meta" and simply exacerbate the problem with balance. 10% would be overkill due to the fact that it is 10% Physical Vulnerability, not resistance.

If it were to be anywhere near what you're asking, as in to be useful, it would need to be a 2% or 1% Physical Resistance or simply make Machinist blunt damage, as that would make Dragoon less relied upon for the "meta" composition. Ultimately, something needs to change with Monk, or other jobs need to change or be introduced (and be useful) for Monk to be useful to its fullest.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Buncha stuff

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That quickly devolved into doom saying, did it not? I am somewhat glad you are not in charge. Ad hominem aside, a focus on team play and increased raid utility has been a strong focus since the drop of stormblood. The other classes, such as Dragoon, Ninja, Samurai, and Summoner, have had strong adjustments to reflect this (Because no one liked old contagion). Yet, the problem remains that blunt damage is inflicted ONLY by Monk, so aside from a 5% damage boost to everyone who happens to be nearby and a 20% healing boost for everyone engaging in a group hug at the time, it brings relatively little to the table. It suffers from its uniqueness. Increasing it's utility and useability doesn't diminish or "screw over" other classes, and might even be on the to-do list for SE. Unfortunately, this increased physical vuln effect is the only thing I can think of that fits its theme, and does what I'm talking about. So...I am open to suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Pondera

Unfortunately, this increased physical vuln effect is the only thing I can think of that fits its theme, and does what I'm talking about. So...I am open to suggestions.

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A suggestion that has been thrown around is to change MCH to blunt damage (vs piercing damage). As a result, this will allow some synergy with another job. Another thing they could do is change One Ilm Punch to be able to stun every cast except enrage related casts. Since by One Ilm Punch's own tooltop: "Stun is impervious to stun nullifying effects". Hmm, seems bosses are still immune to it... Perhaps that could help it?

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Originally Posted by Pondera

shade

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Is it doomsaying when literally no other job gives physical vulnerability/magic vulnerability up on a GCD skill? I wouldn't have thought so, as there's no precedent for that.

As far as suggestions go, MCH turning into blunt damage would flip the meta composition on its head and allow MNK or DRG in one slot, with the other melee being the slashing type.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Is it doomsaying when literally no other job gives physical vulnerability/magic vulnerability up on a GCD skill? I wouldn't have thought so, as there's no precedent for that.

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Except for the fact that Ninja's trick attack increases all damage by 10% on a given target once per minute, regardless of class or source. You're going to have to forgive me if the idea of Monk being able to do that ONLY for physical damage dealers on an even longer cooldown doesn't exactly sound like the horribad game breakingness that you describe

I would like the monk sprint change changed while weapons are drawn. Something like Wolverines low and to the side would be nice.

http://www.firstshowing.net/img2/wol...tos-tsrimg.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pondera

Except for the fact that Ninja's trick attack increases all damage by 10% on a given target once per minute, regardless of class or source. You're going to have to forgive me if the idea of Monk being able to do that ONLY for physical damage dealers on an even longer cooldown doesn't exactly sound like the horribad game breakingness that you describe

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In the quickest clear of O2S (probably the most melee-friendly fight of the Savage fights), at 5:58m, the Ninja had uptime of Trick Attack for 16.65% of the fight.
In another clear of O2S at 6m, the Monk had an uptime of Blunt Resistance down for 96.09% of the fight.

Tell me 10% Physical Damage up, buffing 6 members out of 8 is not broken, when Ninja is buffing 8 people for less than 20% of the fight. There is a reason why Magical and Physical resistance up skills are on a cooldown.