Please remove CUL and ALC specalists

CUL:

Currently, CUL has 5 2-star recipes in Stormblood. Most of the food stat combinations are very undesirable. There is almost no incentive to become a CUL specialist and the potential earnings are extremely small compared to other crafters.

ALC:

ALC is the complete opposite of CUL, it is the best and most profitable crafter. It has created the mats for every set of gear, every patch. It also creates Potions for raids, which are in much higher demand than food. This is because you may only use 2-3 food a raid night while spending 30+ potions in the same time.

For these reasons, I believe removing these two crafters from the specialist formula will better balance crafting as a whole. If not, better balancing needs to be considered to increase CUL usability, while decreasing ALC demand.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

For these reasons, I believe removing these two crafters from the specialist formula will better balance crafting as a whole.

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It doesn't make any sense to suddenly remove specialists for CUL and ALC just because one is making more gil than the other. Don't forget specialist status comes from the Soul Stone, which adds extra stats. And the stone allows some very neat skills to be performed by the class. Don't you think removing it from CUL will only make it further suffer? And how about fairness? You can't have 2 classes which have no specialist status! That will be extremely unfair! Despite CUL having so few high level recipes, it's actually a very profitable class. Persimmon Leaf Sushi and Jellied Compote are still extremely popular among raiders. Perhaps they don't make as much money as the potions, but they are still making a lot of money.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

If not, better balancing needs to be considered to increase CUL usability, while decreasing ALC demand.

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Balances change every patch. Once in awhile, certain class(es) will be having an edge over the others. It's normal. Yet, I do agree that CUL is being a big neglected since the beginning of Stormblood though. I do hope they will adjust it by providing more food choices and more high level recipes.

What an odd request for something that could change dramatically in a patch or two from now.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Don't forget specialist status comes from the Soul Stone, which adds extra stats.

Despite CUL having so few high level recipes, it's actually a very profitable class. Persimmon Leaf Sushi and Jellied Compote are still extremely popular among raiders.

Balances change every patch.

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Neither Persimmon Leaf Sushi or Jellied Compote require a specialist, which strengthens my point that specialist for CUL is currently close to worthless.

The specialist's moves are mostly pointless. I have crafted everything including the new 2 star without using any of them. I see your point though for people that may rely on them, but they could just be given the specialist status but the status does not count towards your total.

Balancing does change every patch, but ALC does not. It is always needed and could be considered the OP class since you literally can't make new stuff without the mats it makes.

I feel like the better solution would just be to make components not require specialist to craft, only final products.

You can change specialists quite cheaply now. It does require a bit of planning if you want to make multiple items but it's fairly easy to do. In my opinion that change alone has made specialists palatable. If you want to omni-craft you can simply switch round your specialists as you need.

One of the biggest issues with specialists in my opinion, has been the uneven number of recipes the different classes get. CUL definitely got the short end of the stick this time, but removing the ability to be a specialist on CUL won't solve that; it also locks people out of abilities and lowers their stats. I don't think anyone who is a CUL specialist with no other crafting class, is going to like your idea at all.

Alc is necessary now but that may change in the future. Soul-stones are cheap, taking the ability to be an ALC specialist away isn't going to make the current ALC recipes much more accessible than they are now.

HW relic HQ King Cake. I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

Balancing does change every patch, but ALC does not. It is always needed and could be considered the OP class since you literally can't make new stuff without the mats it makes.

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For this patch-cycle, yes. I dont expect ALC being the only one again to provide base-mats when it comes to crafting DoW/DoM-gear. We'll most likely gonna see metal, leather, wood and fabric spread over all crafting-class (except CUL). ALC will probably still get those dissolvents, so technically it will always be needed, but it will even out more again (considering that dissolvents often use much cheaper mats or are at least crafted in quanteties of 3 already they're often cheaper on the marketboard than other basemats - you cant craft everything yourself anyways)

I agree that CUL does need some more and better recipes but neither needs their specialist status removed - specially not considering that specialist-exclusive recipes only stay that way for a certain amount of time. So you want always need a ALC specialist to craft the mats for the current crafter/gatherer gear. My guess would be that for the next crafting-patch ALC mainly gets dissolvents - making it a potent crafter, but not as OP as it currently is.

ALC is going to be very valuable as long as it creates an item that is required for every end game gear craft in the game, like dissolvents/reisuis/fibers. I can't really imagine any point where it wouldn't feel near mandatory with how they've been handling craft balancing. Every single end game crafted gear set in HW required items ALC made - astral oil, luminous fiber, grade 2 and 3 dissolvents. Which is why I'm very strongly against specialists crafting components.

I also don't think "just switch your specialists" is the best solution as you're limited on how many times you can switch per week and again ALC is required for everything so you might as well keep it around if you want to be self-sufficient.

That being said, removing CUL and ALC specs would not be a good solution.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

ALC is going to be very valuable as long as it creates an item that is required for every end game gear craft in the game, like dissolvents/reisuis/fibers. I can't really imagine any point where it wouldn't feel near mandatory with how they've been handling craft balancing...
...Which is why I'm very strongly against specialists crafting components.

I also don't think "just switch your specialists" is the best solution as you're limited on how many times you can switch per week...

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You are absolutely right on both points. I agree locking component recipes to specialists is a major issue. Being able to switch soul-stones is a work-round that is better than nothing and much better than what we had before but it is not a solution.

The problem that specialisation was supposed to solve seems far smaller to me than some of the problems it has created.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

CUL:

Currently, CUL has 5 2-star recipes in Stormblood. Most of the food stat combinations are very undesirable. There is almost no incentive to become a CUL specialist and the potential earnings are extremely small compared to other crafters

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I make stone cold cash with CUL and regularly switch between the two, thank you very much. ;] I sell the SB 2 star recipes all the time (both the specialist ones and the other.) They sell better than fibers and oil on my server, and a stack of ten sells for about as much as one fiber so... *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Sepher

Neither Persimmon Leaf Sushi or Jellied Compote require a specialist, which strengthens my point that specialist for CUL is currently close to worthless.

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The pots ALC's make don't require you to be a specialist either. So CUL doesn't make as much gil as a full 320 crafter set, sure. I only make a couple million each day from CUL, but the costs are much cheaper. It's a good filler sideline. I craft a stack of the fiber, switch to CUL, then craft stacks of all the fast selling foods. Rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

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For these reasons, I believe removing these two crafters from the specialist formula will better balance crafting as a whole. If not, better balancing needs to be considered to increase CUL usability, while decreasing ALC demand.

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hmmm you do realize the whole purpose of those two classes right?

CUL; is more of a support type using food which makes sense that it would not make much money.

ALC; is used in components that help with other crafting classes so no kidding it would be in higher demand.

YOU DO UNDERSTAND you can change specialist at any time.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

hmmm you do realize the whole purpose of those two classes right?

CUL; is more of a support type using food which makes sense that it would not make much money.

ALC; is used in components that help with other crafting classes so no kidding it would be in higher demand.

YOU DO UNDERSTAND you can change specialist at any time.

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"Change your specialist at any time" isn't a valid reason when you need ALC for literally every craft other than CUL. It effectively removes one choice from the pool of specialists if your goal is to be self sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

"Change your specialist at any time" isn't a valid reason when you need ALC for literally every craft other than CUL. It effectively removes one choice from the pool of specialists if your goal is to be self sufficient.

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This isn't a valid reason either. There are only two mats that you need an ALC specialist for and you can make as many as you need at any time. There are no gates, besides the time it takes to craft them. It only effectively removes one choice if you only make the bare minimum that your need for a recipe, and that's only an issue if you make and sell 320 crafter/gather stuffs. Everything else that ALC makes can be made without a specialist. Dedicate a time to craft a stack or two of whichever you need and then you won't need an ALC specialist for a long time. ;p It takes 22 fibers to make a full set of craft/gather gear. Do the math on how many sets you sell and make the fibers in bulk.

It could be worse. There could be favor farming involved in crafting these sets and week long time gates. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

This isn't a valid reason either. There are only two mats that you need an ALC specialist for and you can make as many as you need at any time

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You need those "just two mats" for every specialist gear craft. Not everyone wants to sit there and make however many fibers or oils they may ever need for what they want to make. You might have made enough for YOUR gear last week and then switched back, now you have a friend that you want to make set for, and you have to switch back. Then two weeks later you decide that fibers are selling well so you want to make some. So you have to switch again. It's honestly insane to think that things aren't just a little too skewed towards ALC.

Considering about 80% of the point of crafting is to make things to sell, why would you think that's the solution we should have? It's such a pain to switch all the time (and remember, we're restricted to 3 times a week now, and it's not free to switch) that you, again, might as well keep ALC around all the time. It's just not worth the trouble to constantly switch if you're an active end game crafter.

I did favors all the time, they weren't that terrible. And I'm not here saying the specialist should be removed, but yes, ALC is way stronger than the other specs and always has been really strong.

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Originally Posted by Sepher

CUL:
For these reasons, I believe removing these two crafters from the specialist formula will better balance crafting as a whole. If not, better balancing needs to be considered to increase CUL usability, while decreasing ALC demand.

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Goldsmith and carpenter aren't much better off than culinary this patch, I think carpenter just makes the fishing pole and goldsmith can make weaver primary. The food is pretty lame but hopefully more raid food and upgraded seafood stew comes with 4.2. Alchemy by itself doesn't make that much money, there is a lot less risk involved in making HQ base mats or potions, and most people are going to have alchemy spec'd if it makes base mats. We're all in the same boat and crafter classes don't compete against each other, there is no point in attempting to balance them.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

I did favors all the time, they weren't that terrible.

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What part wasn't terrible? The weekly red scrip cap? The 4 hrs it took to get the needed things for two different mats -- this isn't counting all the other mats from normal to legendary. How you could only make 1 or 2 things per week? That you could only change specialists 1 a week at the cost of a piece of gear? Them were the good ol' days.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

And I'm not here saying the specialist should be removed, but yes, ALC is way stronger than the other specs and always has been really strong.

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ALC specialist was worthless for most of HW. The reason why every crafted gear needs something from ALC is because of that. People complained that ALC and CUL were worthless specialists and they fixed that when the ironworks gear came out.

I get where you're coming from. I craft and sell a set of crafting and gathering gear each day, when I'm not lazy. I make fibers in bulk. I understand how much time it takes to do this. I just don't think we're in such dire straights. It's the best we've ever had it since ARR. Let's agree to disagree? :] Who knows, maybe they'll make the current specialist crafts regular recipes as they did with the other 2 star stuff. *fingers crossed* And we get new recipes in a day or two. YAY!

ALC was far from worthless in HW, it made the dissolvents, astral oil, and luminous fibers - again, materials required by all crafts. It's just frustrating how dependent you are on it if you want to not rely on the MB/other crafters.

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Originally Posted by Ziggyzapps

Goldsmith and carpenter aren't much better off than culinary this patch, I think carpenter just makes the fishing pole and goldsmith can make weaver primary.

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Carpenter and goldsmith also make those fake windows, which are gonna be huge moneymakers in just a week and still are currently, though come the patch they may not be spec locked anymore.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

ALC was far from worthless in HW, it made the dissolvents, astral oil, and luminous fibers

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I never said ALC was worthless. I said the specialist was worthless. Astral oil wasn't a specialist recipe. It was 1 star. Luminous fibers was what made the specialist so strong but they weren't introduced until the ironworks set. After everyone complained that the specialist was useless. xP That's why they were put in and that's why we have the ala fibers now.