tank buffs/nerfs

Apparently WAR/DRK DPS buffs are coming in 4.2, nothing specific yet for DRK but apparently WAR will get changes to combo damage similar to DRG in 4.1 (base skill damage down combo damage up) and some adjustments will be made to make it easier to play.
PLD will be nerfed

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4541661

I guess we will have to wait for official patch notes. Kinda seems like he didn't want to go into detail about it. But went well into detail about BLM

They did say PLD DPS in particular will be nerfed, and WAR&DRK DPS will be buffed.

Back to DRK+WAR comps everywhere, it seems...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

They did say PLD DPS in particular will be nerfed, and WAR&DRK DPS will be buffed.

Back to DRK+WAR comps everywhere, it seems...

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Depends on how drastic an increase Dark Knight gets. If it ends up paladin level we still don’t offer their utility and paladin will be taken over Dark Knight imo.

If one comes down 100 dps and the other goes up 100 dps then they are nearly the same but one has way more support and team utility. So we’ll just have to wait for notes I guess. I’m just happy they finally acknowledged dark knight.

No worries DRK still has no raid utility, they can tune 4.3 new morn afah or w/e with all the raid cds they want in order to survive so that PPLD can still be sought after

We back to Heavensward boys. Surely it was outlandish that PLD could be in competitive comps, they mustve known their place.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

We back to Heavensward boys. Surely it was outlandish that PLD could be in competitive comps, they mustve known their place.

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War is being buffed, Sch is given a small qol buff. You know we headed back to Hsw days. Gotta keep these #1 you know.

Square please can other jobs have time to actually outperform these two.

Curious to see exactly what the changes will consist of. I just hope that these changes will bring us closer to a better balance, not away from it. Warrior is already rather well balanced, it would take little to make him too strong, I hope they're going to be smart about this for once.

Anyway, I'm really happy for the drk, that was really the most urgent issue, I was scared they where going to do nothing about it.

Official Translation:

Tank
•Paladin
Their damage output was a bit too high, so we have lowered their DPS just a bit.


•Warrior/Dark Knight
The DPS for both warrior and dark knight will be increased. For warriors, we will lower the effect of Storm’s Eye a little; however, will be increasing the potency of other actions. We've also made system changes to Inner Release and Berserk.

For dark knight, we have increased their usability in general.
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Additional notes from the Reddit thread: Link

TANKS

•DRK: DPS will be buffed slightly; usability will be improved.


•PLD: DPS will be nerfed slightly.


•WAR: Beast gauge management will be simplified, Storm's Eye effect magnitude will be scaled back in exchange for having other actions buffed (same deal as DRG's previous adjustments with Heavy Thrust), and changes will be made to Inner Release and Berserk. DPS will be buffed slightly.
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Vague as F. What the hell are "System Changes to IR and Zerk". Wtf is simplified beast gauge management? Getting rid of the leftover 5s? Drk 'Usability will be improved'? Why bother saying anything at all in these things. So useless.

Well so much for balancing tanks out to be on equal footing. Drk desperately needs a lot of attention while WAR and PLD seemed to finally be pretty even. Hopefully drk buffs are actually worthwhile. The war buffs might wind up being not so great if they make some major adjustments to it. Guess we will have to wait and see. Godspeed us.

I'm hoping DRK's usability improvements are talking about changing DP to be usable in single target and lowering Shadow Wall's recast time-- maybe also upping the duration on TBN? Guess only time will tell, but I'm happy DRK actually got mentioned this patch, however small its buffs may be.

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Originally Posted by SummerScorcher

I'm hoping DRK's usability improvements are talking about changing DP to be usable in single target and lowering Shadow Wall's recast time-- maybe also upping the duration on TBN? Guess only time will tell, but I'm happy DRK actually got mentioned this patch, however small its buffs may be.

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Damage wise if they gave us 5% more on Darkside's damage buff id be happy, Dark Passenger and maybe up duration/lower mp cost of TBN would be nice but i dont count on it. HOPEFULLY no more "Increased potency of Soul Eater by 20"... I'd be pretty cheesed if that were the case.

I'm not miffed about the PLD nerfs. PLD is just to damn strong for what it brings to the table in terms of DPS and mitigation. It has the most stable DPS of the 3 tanks and the most options for saving a Raid. A WAR cannot save a RAID and DRK cannot Save a RAID. A PLD can heal, apply multiple party wide mitgation and negate any dmg on healer for a quick LB raise if needed (ive done this in ultimate its broken).

The potency nerf to Holy Spirt will probably drop it to 380. Currently at 400, a 3x use of Holy Spirit unbuffed is greater than a FoF+slashing buffed RA combo. Dropping it to 380 will balance out. Shield swipe likely be brought to 120/130 potency as its essentially free DPS. Most of PLDs oGCD's are free DPS and are greater in overall potency than DRK and WAR's offering.

WAR's arent getting a potency increase, what they are getting is a more streamlined DPS metric that doesn't rely on luck to deal dmg. Its very easy to tell when a WAR's IR is down because their dmg drops massively and should a fight end near the center of this window it heavily reflects on their known dmg output. By streamlining this window they will essentially balance WAR's massive up and down burst so its far more stable, very similar to what they did with DRG's.

DRK's getting a potency increase seems like a bandaid solution. Their DMg is crap yes, but that really doesn't fix the issues it has. DRK's need a secondary mana regen combo off syphon strike. Delerium needs a reduction in CD and DRK passanger needs a nerf in mana consumption. These would contribute more to DRK's DPS than flat potency increases.

On top of that DRK's need an answer for sheltron and Inner beast. DRK Mind was only good because all of alex having shit tons of magical busters. I think nerfing DaDm to 20% but adding in all dmg reduced to both DM's 10% and DaDm would help DRK alot. Also DA Blackest Knight spreads a 10% shield to whole party that generates 10 blood per shield break would help with their party wide mitgation. Also increase the length of the shield lasting to 10 sec. 5 sec is like playing hot potato.

Thanks God the incredibly complicated mechanic of keeping Storm's Eye up is being changed so dropping this ultra hard to maintain buff won't be as punishing... (/s by the way)

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Originally Posted by Aana

Vague as F. What the hell are "System Changes to IR and Zerk". Wtf is simplified beast gauge management? Getting rid of the leftover 5s? Drk 'Usability will be improved'? Why bother saying anything at all in these things. So useless.

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Ya, if he is going to start the sentence he should finish it, at least some short explanation of wtf he is going on about.
The changes to eye is imho not needed, do not think anyone voiced their concern about keeping that up being a problem, pretty much how I felt about it when they made those changes to DRG.
Zerk as it has been since 4.0 really does not need to be changed in any way shape or form, the only thing that made it problematic for new players as well as in new fights was how IR works making every other minute a huge and insanely important burst window.
IR has imho always needed a change due to how it places all the WAR eggs in one basket.
What worry me is how these system changes to IR and zerk will work, if done wrong they will either make the class op as f or result in an unintended nerf neither of which I want to see, kinda how shake if off was turned from a useless skill in 4.0 into the best group mitigation in 4.1, a nerf to that skill would not make me cry.

Any and all DRK buffs are a good thing, that tank really need them and I do not mind if they get a patch or two as the op tank. But ya usability will be improved tells me nothing.

The PLD nerfs are not surprising, I do however hope that SE does not go overboard with this, PLD is a great tank right now and I want them to continue being just that. The best thing about 4.0 is how PLD was turned into the tank they thematically should have been all along, the holy fighter that shield his comrades from harm while with the sword striking at the enemies with attacks both physical and holy.

With the information given being this vague all we can do is wait and see what these nerfs, buffs, and changes are all about.

Well knowing SE’s terrible track record at balance PLD is about to get screwed. Why can’t they ever just fix the underperforming jobs and leave the ones that are perfectly fine alone?

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Well knowing SE’s terrible track record at balance PLD is about to get screwed. Why can’t they ever just fix the underperforming jobs and leave the ones that are perfectly fine alone?

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Consolation? They did say "small" nerf pld and "small" damage buff war/drk. /shrug

On a light hearted note.... DRK's be like:

http://popular-anime.com/wp-content/...otice-you2.jpg

We don't know the exact potency nerf on holy spirit

I can't get too upset yet without knowing the exact, numerical changes they want to implement. Until then a buff could be a 1% increase or a nerf could be a 50% decrease. The problem is I don't really trust them to balance things given how many things shipped in SB being horrendously under-powered to later be buffed into OP level standards. Combine that with how purposefully vague they are when talking about anything and it makes everyone paranoid whenever they start talking about balance passes. They have a record of constantly over-tuning or under-tuning something and always sailing right past where balance should be for several iterations.

I don't think WAR and PLD need adjustments. Nerfing Paladin worries me because Paladin wasn't great for most of Heavensward, its' my main class, and I like being relevant. I think Dark Knight struggles with his identity and mechanics more than he does dealing relevant damage; Dark Knight often comes off as just trying to be DIFFERENT than WAR/PLD for the sake of being different, rather than feeling like an actualized, realized class in of itself.

DPS increase on warrior sounds like the DPS increase on Dragoon.

My guess is you're going to see a larger shift up on the average instead of a larger shift up on maximum capability, as the mentioned changes are in the same vein. (Less punishing if buffs drop)

Dark Knight will probably be a flat potency buff somewhere and less obnoxious TBN timing.

Paladin will probably see Fight of Flight hit down to 20 or 15%.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

DPS increase on warrior sounds like the DPS increase on Dragoon.

My guess is you're going to see a larger shift up on the average instead of a larger shift up on maximum capability, as the mentioned changes are in the same vein. (Less punishing if buffs drop)

Dark Knight will probably be a flat potency buff somewhere and less obnoxious TBN timing.

Paladin will probably see Fight of Flight hit down to 20 or 15%.

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Making Warrior more forgiving is probably fine. I don't feel like they need a DPS increase, although I don't think nudging their DPS up slightly will throw balance into chaos either.

Most sources indicate that Paladin is probably seeing a nerf to the damage of Holy Spirit and Shield Swipe. The exact amount isn't yet known. I don't know any Japanese to confirm/deny that, but it keeps popping up.

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Originally Posted by Warkupo

Making Warrior more forgiving is probably fine. I don't feel like they need a DPS increase, although I don't think nudging their DPS up slightly will throw balance into chaos either.

Most sources indicate that Paladin is probably seeing a nerf to the damage of Holy Spirit and Shield Swipe. The exact amount isn't yet known. I don't know any Japanese to confirm/deny that, but it keeps popping up.

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Yeah, I would prefer sources over the viral copypasta machine that is the internet. If anyone has more concrete info than the vague bullet list we all have don't be shy.

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Originally Posted by Aana

Yeah, I would prefer sources over the viral copypasta machine that is the internet. If anyone has more concrete info than the vague bullet list we all have don't be shy.

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For now the only concrete info is the Dev-Post of "Paladin damage was a bit too high, so we'll be nerfing Paladin DPS a bit." My gut feeling is that it will be a minor potency nerf somewhere that won't really affect how the class functions or plays in any meaningful way. We likely won't know anything specific until the actual Patch Notes are available. Until then... paranoia?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

and less obnoxious TBN timing.

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TBN isn't obnoxious, people are just lazy and don't want to learn how to use it. If you learn a fight; like any self respecting tank should, and know what is coming up next you know exactly when to use it. Dark Knight's main issue has nothing to do with TBN, and has to do with the fact the kit is disjointed. Usability is definitely not in reference to just a single skill, as the entire kit needs changes to help with the flow of combat.

I hope DP’s mana cost is halved. If not, at least make it 150 potency from 100. There’s a formula thingy right? 1 DA is equal to 140 potency or something like that right? Should be worth using if either changes happen. I just want another but to press in my rotations rather than C&S and DA all the time when Delirium is on CD.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

TBN isn't obnoxious, people are just lazy and don't want to learn how to use it...Usability is definitely not in reference to just a single skill, as the entire kit needs changes to help with the flow of combat.

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It can be both. TBN could use some improvements and shed some of the annoyances in its nuance and it's still true that it's only one of many usability issues Dark Knight is suffering from. People who aren't comfortable with TBN aren't automatically horrible players that don't use it "right".

At this point I am already waiting for 4.3 for real DRK changes

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

TBN isn't obnoxious, people are just lazy and don't want to learn how to use it. If you learn a fight; like any self respecting tank should, and know what is coming up next you know exactly when to use it. Dark Knight's main issue has nothing to do with TBN, and has to do with the fact the kit is disjointed. Usability is definitely not in reference to just a single skill, as the entire kit needs changes to help with the flow of combat.

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So im lazy that I dont remember the fight and know the very second doing the cast or INSTANT skill to use TBN throught clicking a name and clicking the skill through server tick so the shield to be useful. K.

I mean....it's not very hard to time TBN. I personally do want it stretched to 6-8 seconds but all you have to do it time it to be 2 seconds after an auto. Autos always happen every 3 seconds unless the enemy is casting for 100 hours(O3s). And otherwise you should be able to pick up on what hits for 11K after doing the same fight over and over. It isn't super hard. It is a little tricky though.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

So im lazy that I dont remember the fight and know the very second doing the cast or INSTANT skill to use TBN throught clicking a name and clicking the skill through server tick so the shield to be useful. K.

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If you've been playing even somewhat often since 4.0 dropped you'll full well know when to use it. Fights in this game are so static I'd hazard a guess that if you've done them more than three times you'll subconsciously know the general flow without even trying to memorize the fight. Granted, you said clicking. Personally, I'm on controller so all I have to do is tap on the d-pad, press the skill and done. I'll admit that it may be a bit more obnoxious with K/M, but for controllers it feels perfect. That said... Most of the time you use it on yourself, so there is no "selecting a target."

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Originally Posted by Sipherous

Shield swipe likely be brought to 120/130 potency as its essentially free DPS.

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Funny because the reason why low kick/brutal swing were removed was because people used it as DPS increase....why they were removed alongside all those other skills and not replaced with anything good is beyond me while PLD kept everything.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

why they were removed alongside all those other skills and not replaced with anything good is beyond me while PLD kept everything.

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Low Blows was a great trait and I miss it dearly. You hit the nail on the head though, DRK and WAR lost stuff that was never restored, while PLD they just said "Yeah, you can keep all of this AND we'll give you even more." To put it simply, they had no idea what they were doing in regards to what they were adding or removing.

I’ve had all 3 tanks at 70 since July and I think Paladin is perfect as it is and cannot believe they want to mess with it! Absolutely dreadful decision IMO. Warrior feels pretty good lately and I’m in favor of buffing DPS a little bit, but no nerfs of any kind to it. Obviously Dark Knight is in need of improvement in raid utility, DPS, and fixing several abilities. I do enjoy playing it in normal dungeons and hunts though because I just like the class. Please SE, don’t nerf Paladin! It’s fantastic as is! Spend your time on DRK!

Gosh SE annoys me sometimes with this, PLD is fine as is all they needed to do is buff WAR and buff DRK while adding some use to the class but no they seem to fail at delivering everytime...

Look at Monk a whole two expansions later and they realized the class has issues that arnt related to dps but more so the way the class plays

As much as I hate to say it, nerfing PLD dmg seems a little needed. I main PLD and after playing around with the other 2 tanks it's pretty obvious that Holy Spirit is just a smidge too strong. A 400 potency nuke that requires the use of only a secondary resource, with no punishment and no loss to mitigation and can be repeated and spammed after only a few GCD is simply too powerful. And I just don't think that wildly adding potency increases to the other 2 tanks will address any balance issues.

I'm intrigued by whatever they mean by 'usability improvements' for DRK. But I'm keeping my expectations very low in a dark place to avoid inevitable disappointment.

I don't think it is PLD nerf because SE thinks that PLD is too powerful.
I think that nerf of the PLD is due to the changes introduced to WAR and DRK. Probably they couldn't find any golden mean in time they had between these three to do it different way.

And it's a DPS nerf, as I understand, they are not touching the playstyle. So the feeling should stay the same, DPS not (sadly). For WAR and DRK they want to introduce changes that will affect the playstyle.