Minimum ilvl of dungeons

Hello,
Today I was doing lvling roulette, the dungeon was dusk vigil lvl 51 there was a black mage with a staff lvl 43 and gear ilvl 90, just the jewerly was 115. So he had at least 2k hp less, and his damage was really poor. And he has 3 other classes ilvl 330+ so he have conditions to have a good gear.
I dont know if this have happened to someone else, but was very annoying and the dungeon took forever, not to mention the fact that the player didnt seemed to care.
I just wanted to show my feeling to the forum since my messagem to the gm team was answered with an automatic message.
If the dungeons had a minimum ilvl this wouldn't happen

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Originally Posted by Waleran

Hello,
Today I was doing lvling roulette, the dungeon was dusk vigil lvl 51 there was a black mage with a staff lvl 43 and gear ilvl 90, just the jewerly was 115. So he had at least 2k hp less, and his damage was really poor. And he has 3 other classes ilvl 330+ so he have conditions to have a good gear.
I dont know if this have happened to someone else, but was very annoying and the dungeon took forever, not to mention the fact that the player didnt seemed to care.
I just wanted to show my feeling to the forum since my messagem to the gm team was answered with an automatic message.
If the dungeons had a minimum ilvl this wouldn't happen

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/votekick

youll get a new dps within 2 minutes

problem solved

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

Humm,
So ok, let me see. Every new player in the game deserves to be Kicked from duty's? Only because the other people in the party want to finish a duty quick?
In this case it seems that the player was farming tomes to get better gear for that class. People just need to be more comprehensive and chill out. It's a game.
It's suppose to have fun with it friends, FC members, etc..

if you start kicking people because of bad gear.....your going to get slapped in the face by a GM.

Just because YOU don't like it..doesn't mean that you cant complete the dungeon.
You need to help the guy/gal out....and work your way through it. The only time its appropriate to kick is if the player is causing harm to the party - as in frequent wipes, being idle, or sabotage.

Having sucky gear or poor gear and yet able to "slowly" get through - doesn't count.

didn't say it was nice....only said - careful - as your on thin ice....idea is to help...not make the problem worse.

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Originally Posted by DarkBlizzard

Humm,
So ok, let me see. Every new player in the game deserves to be Kicked from duty's? Only because the other people in the party want to finish a duty quick?
In this case it seems that the player was farming tomes to get better gear for that class. People just need to be more comprehensive and chill out. It's a game.
It's suppose to have fun with it friends, FC members, etc..

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So ignoring the fact that you literally didnt read the original post where said BLM had i330+ gear on 3 other classes, the MSQ literally tosses gear at you. There are vendors in every settlement to buy gear from. There is no excuse to have an i43 weapon in a Heavensward dungeon.

Also, if they don't have gil/poetics for gear, they can go run ARR finale dungeons for i110 gear AND poetics. If they're not willing to put the effort into not being assholes towards 3 other people, they deserve getting kicked.

But yes, setting min ilvl at (ilvl of dungeon drops) - 10 or 20 would probably be a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Shahi

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

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If it is your 4th job, you should have enough for at least level 50 gear in Ishgard, a complete set costs around 165k gil at most.

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Originally Posted by DarkBlizzard

Humm,
So ok, let me see. Every new player in the game deserves to be Kicked from duty's? Only because the other people in the party want to finish a duty quick?
In this case it seems that the player was farming tomes to get better gear for that class. People just need to be more comprehensive and chill out. It's a game.
It's suppose to have fun with it friends, FC members, etc..

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It was not a new player, he had 3 level 70s with ilvl 330, that's by far not new.
Just because it is a DPS doesn't mean he can slack, with a healer or tank on this level of gear they probably wouldn't be able to finish the dungeon at all.
Also you don't get tomes for the leveling dungeons even if you get in via the leveling roulette.
You can have fun, but don't hinder strangers with lazyness, that is more or less just harassment.

This ia a prime example why a minimum ilvl should be gating all content and not just the ones on the corresponding level caps.
It just doesn't make sense to have dungeons far more easy gated behind ilvl and then on higher level the ilvl requirement is lifted, especially since the MSQ gives HQ gear like candy so no progression would be hindered.

You can go into every leveling dungeon, everyone from 15 to 47, from 51 to 59 and from 61 to 69 naked, without any gear and just the basic lvl 1 ilvl 1 weapon to unlock a class.
That is insane.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

if you start kicking people because of bad gear.....your going to get slapped in the face by a GM.

Just because YOU don't like it..doesn't mean that you cant complete the dungeon.
You need to help the guy/gal out....and work your way through it. The only time its appropriate to kick is if the player is causing harm to the party - as in frequent wipes, being idle, or sabotage.

Having sucky gear or poor gear and yet able to "slowly" get through - doesn't count.

didn't say it was nice....only said - careful - as your on thin ice....idea is to help...not make the problem worse.

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Isn't it sabotage, if you go into a duty with far lower gear or trash gear?
Also if a tank or healer would have gear like that it would be more like extrem hard work or just hell to complete the dungeon instead of just a little more time to complete it.

forgot to add that this may be just a case of mistaken "glamour in weapon slot" error.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

forgot to add that this may be just a case of mistaken "glamour in weapon slot" error.

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If so the player could just change it in the duty instead of not careing and in that moment he does harm the party intentionally.

Today on mainstory roulett i saw an DK with some 260 parts, few 270 parts, but Yanxia chest and 190 gordian ring... he is lv 68 and its his last job not on 70... kinda... screw you for being lazy >_>

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

if you start kicking people because of bad gear.....your going to get slapped in the face by a GM.

Just because YOU don't like it..doesn't mean that you cant complete the dungeon.
You need to help the guy/gal out....and work your way through it. The only time its appropriate to kick is if the player is causing harm to the party - as in frequent wipes, being idle, or sabotage.

Having sucky gear or poor gear and yet able to "slowly" get through - doesn't count.

didn't say it was nice....only said - careful - as your on thin ice....idea is to help...not make the problem worse.

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If i start kicking people for bad gear I guarantee you a GM won't say a word to me. Especially if the person I kicked didn't care about me mentioning it to them/ warning them before I kicked em (hint: reread the OP fully this time.)

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Originally Posted by Shahi

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

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"Best Gear" they were at least 75 ilevels below the dungeon and not a new player who didn't know better. Come on now.

Edit: also

>grinding for poetics in a leveling dungeon on a job not at 70

leveling dungeons dont give you poetics at all. they give stormblood tomes. you cannot get any tomes from a leveling dungeon if the class youre running it on isnt at 70.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If i start kicking people for bad gear I guarantee you a GM won't say a word to me. Especially if the person I kicked didn't care about me mentioning it to them/ warning them before I kicked em (hint: reread the OP fully this time.)

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How about you read my post before you start making judgement calls.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

How about you read my post before you start making judgement calls.

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Mm. How about no. You wanted to make judgement calls about me after not understanding what OP was talking about, own up to it.

Apparently vote kicking solves all issues.

On a serious note, its probably be a good idea to constructively call out under-geared players and advise them to gear up before queuing for a dungeon with as up-to-date gear as they can possibly afford/attain. Including players with near broken gear. A lot of people fail to observe their gear durability before entering an instance.

An iLv requirement definitely would be nice in any circumstance, but giving that just enables people to manipulate their roulette choices by queuing up with the majority of their gear unequipped. Not the brightest of ideas, especially for a levelling roulette dungeon. Let's assume all dungeons in HW have a minimum iLv requirement of 115 and above, if I queue up for levelling roulette with, say, iLv 70, I skip all of the HW dungeons from the pool of possible choices in said roulette.

Vote kicking will only serve the purpose of pushing the problem on someone else at a later time, so for anyone else reading, how about being constructive and polite. Ask them if they have their glamour, or incorrect gear equipped. If they have the best gear equipped, then suggest the next time they queue up for something that they take the effort in either getting better gear from poetics, vendoring the gear, or simply doing a few of the Level 50 dungeons on their main class. Sure this relies on the assumption they will take the constructive feedback into account next time they queue up. There's no use in reporting a player, or a 1-off experience for something that can easily be attributed as a mistake, or lack of foresight on behalf of the player (e.g. queuing up to levelling roulette as a fresh Level 51, expecting a dungeon such as Halatali, or Toto-Rak to pop)

I didn't ignore the fact that he had other jobs with ilvl330, i think you must read what i said again.
And how would he know the item lvl of the other alts? Stalking? For god sake.
Just chill and have fun with the game....

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Originally Posted by DarkBlizzard

I didn't ignore the fact that he had other jobs with ilvl330, i think you must read what i said again.
And how would he know the item lvl of the other alts? Stalking? For god sake.
Just chill and have fun with the game....

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>new player
>at least 3 level 70 jobs

you cant be both. pick one.

I don't mind the idea of ivl restrictions for all dungeons but I think you'd end up surprised that he probably still would have gotten into that dungeon.
Because the lvl 51 dungeon is doable with people who only have i90 gear (yeah the weapon sucked but the accessory would have probably balanced it out for overall ilvl). Pretty sure the devs never expect any dungeon to have people geared with the best gear available for them , like poetics gear for 50's.

Also the fact that he had other jobs at 330 shouldn't matter because if they did do an ivl restriction, it will affect such players and new players equally and new players may not have a lot of poetics. They're not going to do "If you're new, it's i80, if you have other high level jobs it's i130" restrictions, they're just not.

I support this but I'd imagine that Dusk Vigil's min ilvl if it was implemented would probably be somewhere in 80-89 (basically only expecting players to have the free gear from the job quests, a non-poetics weapon, and the achievement accessory) and thus wouldn't have helped your case.

After all, snowcloak has a min ilvl of 80 and it's a level 50 dungeon, no way they'd jump it to 100+ on the very next non-Hard dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

I don't mind the idea of ivl restrictions for all dungeons but I think you'd end up surprised that he probably still would have gotten into that dungeon.
Because the lvl 51 dungeon is doable with people who only have i90 gear (yeah the weapon sucked but the accessory would have probably balanced it out for overall ilvl). Pretty sure the devs never expect any dungeon to have people geared with the best gear available for them , like poetics gear for 50's.

Also the fact that he had other jobs at 330 shouldn't matter because if they did do an ivl restriction, it will affect such players and new players equally and new players may not have a lot of poetics. They're not going to do "If you're new, it's i80, if you have other high level jobs it's i130" restrictions, they're just not.

I support this but I'd imagine that Dusk Vigil's min ilvl if it was implemented would probably be somewhere in 80-89 (basically only expecting players to have the free gear from the job quests, a non-poetics weapon, and the achievement accessory) and thus wouldn't have helped your case.

After all, snowcloak has a min ilvl of 80 and it's a level 50 dungeon, no way they'd jump it to 100+ on the very next non-Hard dungeon.

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I'm sure the devs never expect the duties to be done at max ilvl but at the average min ilvl and for that they expect that every piece of gear is at least on that ilvl, also if i give out free gear like candy i can expect that people will use it if it is an upgrade.
And for additional Jobs i would expect the players to have enough common sense to get the gear together, while i had them introduced to various sources.

So it would be very reasonable to set the min ilvl for Dusk Vigil to ilvl 95 to 110 (110 would be 10 ilvl less then the dropping gear like in the lvl 50 dungeons and 105 would be 15 ilvl less then the dropping gear like the early lvl 60 dungeons).
Via lvl 50 MSQ you will get a whole set + a second one of ilvl 100 gear, you get more then enough poetics to get a 120 weapon and additional gear and the MSQ in Ishgard provides a set of ilvl 115 left side gear in HQ, so it wouldn't realy hinder new players.

Also Snowcloak may be ilvl 80 but Keeper of the Lake is ilvl 90 and also MSQ dungeon, so a bit more ilvl for the next harder dungeon in line wouldn't be unreasonable especially with the whole bunch of free gear from the previouse MSQ.

Also it is time they fix the min ilvl to absolut min ilvl instead of average min ilvl, so you can't outbalance your trash weapon and left side with some cheap accessoires for more or less no real gain in comparsion with an upgraded left side to circumvent the min ilvl as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

So it would be very reasonable to set the min ilvl for Dusk Vigil to ilvl 95 to 110 (110 would be 10 ilvl less then the dropping gear like in the lvl 50 dungeons and 105 would be 15 ilvl less then the dropping gear like the early lvl 60 dungeons).
Via lvl 50 MSQ you will get a whole set + a second one of ilvl 100 gear, you get more then enough poetics to get a 120 weapon and additional gear and the MSQ in Ishgard provides a set of ilvl 115 left side gear in HQ, so it wouldn't realy hinder new players.

Also Snowcloak may be ilvl 80 but Keeper of the Lake is ilvl 90 and also MSQ dungeon, so a bit more ilvl for the next harder dungeon in line wouldn't be unreasonable especially with the whole bunch of free gear from the previouse MSQ.

Also it is time they fix the min ilvl to absolut min ilvl instead of average min ilvl, so you can't outbalance your trash weapon and left side with some cheap accessoires for more or less no real gain in comparsion with an upgraded left side to circumvent the min ilvl as fast as possible.

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i95-110 for Dusk Vigil sounds reasonable. Maybe they'll listen.

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Originally Posted by Shahi

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

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Last I checked, Dusk Vigil doesn't give poetics.

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Originally Posted by DarkBlizzard

In this case it seems that the player was farming tomes to get better gear for that class.

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Dusk Vigil doesn’t drop tomestones. Leveling dungeons have never dropped current or old tomestones.


If the person already has 3 jobs at level 70, why don’t they have proper gear for this one? Vendor gear isn’t that expensive, and a vender i115 weapon would be way better than the level 43 staff he was using. An NQ Yeti Staff (which is the i115 weapon) costs 23,680 gil from a vendor.

The rest of his gear should have been fine, but to be in a level 51 dungeon, where the gear that drops is i120, and have an i43 weapon is a tad unacceptable.

Needs to be raised on alot of dungeons. see to many under geared running them and dying. Other day had tank on my ex roulette pull a two groups of monsters and before healer could get off one heal they was dead from being to under geared and the caused group before finished the dungeon to wipe 5 times.

I do not condone kicking ppl over iLvl.
However agree, that opening dungeons of Heavensward should have minimum ilvl of at least Snowcloak (80).

Issue with alt-jobs is, that people have the dungeons opened from previous classes and level - especially dps - up to 50 with things like PoTD and then start joining Leveling or 50/60 roulettes.
50/60 specially will land them exclusively in non-iLvl barred instances like Dusk Vigil and Sohm Al, with the results descibed..

I had a MCH in Dun Scaith who was in i90/i120 gear. He switched at Ultima. He couldn't even survive the standard raid damage. We should have kicked him but nobody did. I called him out on it and he said his gear broke.

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Originally Posted by Shahi

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

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But he had 3 other classes with Item lvl 330+, he could get poetics a lot quicker with the other classes then come back to get lvls with the other one. At least this was what I 've done with my healer, so the party could have a good healer. They dont need the best gear, but at least a Standard gear for their lvl. It Is not fair with the other party members.

Thank you for taking time to read my post. It is good to know that are players who think like me and can see that this is wrong. I hope that the GMs and ADMs take this seriously, unlike my support ticket. Because it is not fair to the other party members to "carry" someone in their back like a burden.

why would you use MSQ gear? I and a friend each have made a few million from the msq rewards. All gear can be gotten for free in dungeons.

If you don't like a random party makeup, I wouldnt be using duty finder. If you're using duty finder, you should be comporomising.

This is why I don't examine people. What I don't know can't hurt me, right?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Vote kicking will only serve the purpose of pushing the problem on someone else at a later time, so for anyone else reading, how about being constructive and polite. Ask them if they have their glamour, or incorrect gear equipped. If they have the best gear equipped, then suggest the next time they queue up for something that they take the effort in either getting better gear from poetics, vendoring the gear, or simply doing a few of the Level 50 dungeons on their main class. Sure this relies on the assumption they will take the constructive feedback into account next time they queue up. There's no use in reporting a player, or a 1-off experience for something that can easily be attributed as a mistake, or lack of foresight on behalf of the player (e.g. queuing up to levelling roulette as a fresh Level 51, expecting a dungeon such as Halatali, or Toto-Rak to pop)

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This^ Vote kicking doesn't solve anything.

And maybe they were just hoping for decent drops from Dusk instead of blowing a ton of gil on gear that could be replaced by the dungeon gear.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

This^ Vote kicking doesn't solve anything.

And maybe they were just hoping for decent drops from Dusk instead of blowing a ton of gil on gear that could be replaced by the dungeon gear.

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165k gil is not a ton and this is just for the most expensive lvl 50 equipment from the Ferula Market in Ishgard.
If you want to equip a single job it goes down to 140k to 150k gil.
Also he could use his poetics to get lots of even better gear.

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Originally Posted by QueenSophie

If you don't like a random party makeup, I wouldnt be using duty finder. If you're using duty finder, you should be comporomising.

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You are so right. I would kiss you, but compromissing means all people are taking steps to each other until they find the middleground.
But in the OPs example the accused DPS doesn't want to compromisse he just didn't care and this could be seen as griefing.

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Originally Posted by Bryt

This is why I don't examine people. What I don't know can't hurt me, right?

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I like your naive style.

But like the old romans said: Ignorantia legis non excusat.

So how long did the run extend to? Extra 6.33 mins?

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Originally Posted by StragoMagus

So how long did the run extend to? Extra 6.33 mins?

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Don't say it like that, say it in percent, like 50 to 60 percent longer.
So 6.33 mins in Dusk Vigil would be like 30 to 50 percent in my book.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

I like your naive style. But like the old romans said: Ignorantia legis non excusat.

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I know the law, so to speak. I am not keen on enforcing it when, more than likely, I will never see these people again.

If I notice performance drag, I'll just heal/dps more to pick up the slack and move on with my life.

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Originally Posted by Bryt

I know the law, so to speak. I am not keen on enforcing it when, more than likely, I will never see these people again.

If I notice performance drag, I'll just heal/dps more to pick up the slack and move on with my life.

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Oh, the last wasn't directed especially to you. It should be more of a common thing.

But with the attitude of carrying everyone and even near afk playing you are part of the problem we face and not even near a proper solution.

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Originally Posted by Shahi

Kick someone because they don't have the best gear? Is this a joke? He was probably there for the poetic, so he can get better gear. Not everyone has lots of gil to buy gear from the market board or vendors.

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With vendors in every city selling ilvl appropriate white gear, there is zero reason to have less than full 115 ilvl at level 50.

Kind of reminds me of a thread I made quite a while back:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-requirements

I agree with the topic creator on this one.

Poetics dropping from the sky in duties, vendors in every city and sanctuary/settlement, and guaranteed gear drops in 51-59 and 61-69 dungeons should make this a trivial issue.

But alas, undergeared people still appear in these unrestricted 51-59 and 61-69 dungeons anyway, even with the above fail-safes to help gear up alternate classes.

The max ilevel should be lowered to end this ridiculous argument. The content is all too easy, healer would rather dps than heal. All people care about is the tiny few minutes difference for a dungeon. This is players been spoiled. For what a maximum benefit of a few minutes. You kidding me? You see fit to kick a dps that has to wait 30 min for a dungeon. You know dps dont get adventurer in need bonus, some people dont have the time to farm for gils. If this is your attitude stop queuing for roulette with randoms, go with your mates. You obviously dont want to play with other players. What makes you think your view is shared by every member of the team and of the playerbase and what makes you rule over others? Wake up, you dont. Chances are you probably acted like a spoiled brat and stood there refuse to do anything until the person is kicked and the only other member choose you over the weaker player.

It is most definitely not harassment. Your going way overboard and not just crossing the line. If anything your action to dismiss is bullying and harassment. You should be removed from the game.

You can get ironworks at lvl 50, hailstorm and shire at 60. but you wouldnt be able to get a set for the dungeons inbetween, the drops are too inconsistent you'll be way over level and require higher gear by the time you get a full set. Your primary and second class will have gils and euipment from msq your 3rd class will not.

You need to accept weaker players.

You know who you are.