Why is there no PvP mentor?

I know you can set yourself as a PvP mentor, but why is there no way to achieve the Mentor status through PvP? For the Disciple of War/Magic mentor, you need to run Ifrit normal 1,000 times and get 300 player commendations along the way, and Disciple of Hand/Land you need to just follow a guide on leveling the class to 60 then get 300 collectables.

My point is neither of those really require that much socialization / helpfulness, so I don't understand why acquiring Mentorship through PvP isn't an option either.

So, what you're really trying to say is "I want to be a Mentor without getting either of my gatherers to 60, or without getting a tank, a healer and a dps to 60".

No, they're saying that they want to attain mentorship through PvP, which might actually lend some credibility behind the "PvP Mentor" status icon that currently exists. Which is the exact opposite of what you suggested.

Lock it behind Top 100 in Feast then. Show that you really want this mentorship.

Too easy to just bot X number of games in Frontlines or Rival Wings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

So, what you're really trying to say is "I want to be a Mentor without getting either of my gatherers to 60, or without getting a tank, a healer and a dps to 60".

---

I have a 70 RDM, 61 BRD, and 60 DRG. My next class to 60 will probably be a DRK, which already starts at 30, and is literally just a POTD grindfest. That's not hard. Or, alternatively, I just buy a boost to 60. Moving onto the other requirements, I've timed it, on my RDM including queueing/loading screens, I average 2 Ifrit clears per minute, meaning I could clear him 120 times in an hour. Really the only "hard" part about that is the 300 commendations.

Disciple of Land/Hand is even easier, with me just fishing mindlessly until 60 and buying what I need for leves off the MB for crafting to 60.

Getting top 100 in the Feast isn't much of a metric of skill either, especially with wintraders running rampant, and some people just putting in the time and repeated tries to get up there. Not every skilled player makes top 100.

My point is that neither of those are hard; they are just time consuming. But, by the time you have met the requirements, it's likely that you know a fair amount about the game. Why can't PvP be the same way? Make the requirements something like "earn X (100-300?) commendations through PvP, win X matches, and earn all 3 Garo mounts. I threw the Garo mounts one in there because you have to have a level 60 to get the equipment, although if you only PvP'ed starting at 30 you would probably hit 70 before you met the requirements. I feel like all that would qualify someone to be a PvP mentor.

(double post, too long)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

Lock it behind Top 100 in Feast then. Show that you really want this mentorship.

Too easy to just bot X number of games in Frontlines or Rival Wings.

---

Eh. Mentorship through PvE isn't gated behind being part of the Realm First clears, I don't think PvP should be any different. Although I'm probably biased, I like my suggestion of having to earn all 3 Garo mounts as it's fairly time consuming and encompasses both Feast and Frontline, so PvP mentors would have a decent mix of both. Countering the botting point, you're not wrong, however if I wished to bot I could fairly easily write a bot (albeit badly coded and likely to get me banned) that would kill Ifrit normal for me to grind out 1,000 instances overnight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Getting top 100 in the Feast isn't much of a metric of skill either, especially with wintraders running rampant, and some people just putting in the time and repeated tries to get up there. Not every skilled player makes top 100.

---

Oh, we all know that. Surprised the wintraders haven't shown themselves as much this season actually (or at least not during prime time)

I'm also a trying to think of a way to keep out all the people who would see this as an easy way to get mentorship, but cry about how OP healers are in RW because burst is too hard to do >.>
(and of course I'm abusing being a healer there. People just have no idea what to do against someone who knows the basics of PvP healing. Its hilarious)

I think both pvp and pve mentors need revamp. Put mentorship based on commendations during Mentor Roullette and change that roullete to include pvp modes. The roullete should be a requirement to be a mentor, not a privilege for mentors to run.

I still don't see that it makes a difference. If it's so easy, why not just get it that way? Saying "this is too easy, therefore give me another easy way in" isn't any better an alternative.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone clear Ifrit normal 1,000 times with the express purpose of getting mentor - if that really is a thing then... god almighty, go away >,>

What I'd totally get behind is a mentor voting system... If enough sprouts vote you as helpful, you get to keep your status and maybe even a reward along the way.
If on the other hand, by the end of a given month you have less than X... maybe revoke it? And have a down-voting system to punish mentors who give the title a bad name (like the red-mage on another thread posted on this very forum).


I just can't see myself agreeing with giving people yet another easy way in. Plus, even then would the developers care enough to implement? Pvp has never been a very big scene in this mmorpg, if this was such a big issue people would have been in uproar since the mentor system had been implemented - which they haven't.

Because PvP is a joke no matter how much more "esports" they try to make it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

I just can't see myself agreeing with giving people yet another easy way in. Plus, even then would the developers care enough to implement? Pvp has never been a very big scene in this mmorpg, if this was such a big issue people would have been in uproar since the mentor system had been implemented - which they haven't.

---

As it stands, PvP was never a big draw til they put XP on the table, yet now everyone thinks themselves good at it - and speaking from the perspective of someone with the experience and skill in PvP to perhaps rightfully claim PvP mentorship - many of them aren't. That might sound mean, but it's true. And isn't it issue enough already that there are mentors who aren't qualified for the status running around wearing it just because they wanted the crown or simply because they had already met the requirements for it beforehand but don't actually show the qualities one would expect or want from a mentor? Arguing that because PvP isn't a big scene thus PvP mentorship isn't a big deal isn't all that valid. I've had plenty of time and opportunity to do what's needed to be a legit gathering/crafting mentor. If I grind it all out say, next week, can I properly call myself a gathering/crafting mentor?

Rather than looking at it as another "easy way" (side note: PvP is still somewhat an area of the game where your personal level of skill and knowledge of your job truly holds weight), one should look at it as "why does the status exist, but not the criteria? Why is there no way for perhaps someone who actually likes PvP and has perhaps shown an aptitude for it or leadership abilities within said content to attain and claim a level of mastery fit to teach or help others?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxlStream

Because PvP is a joke no matter how much more "esports" they try to make it?

---

Sadly, it wasn't before. It required more skill. It required more understanding. And while many were too busy writing it off as bad, those of us who gained that skill and understanding learned to do well then, and we still do well now. Call me rude to say it, but those people more than any now, would be fit to call themselves mentors. There's a LOT players simply don't know purely for lack of having ever tried, and would only learn from other players who did try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

snip snip

---

Please understand, I know where you're coming from and I'm completely in agreement that the current system we have is bad as it is.
I just maintain that creating a new way to become a mentor, in this case via pvp, won't help with the issue at all. If anything, it will only open the title further towards more people with no interest in anything other than the crown.

I mean, let's be honest here shall we? How many people in pvp have you seen that are clearly using a bot. And of those that aren't, how many of them do you believe are there for the PVP itself, and not the rewards/outfits?
You can tell me I'm wrong, but I think you and I know better. For those people, this would just be another easy -in- for the mentor status. That's it.

Reminds me of how people, way back when, were upset that the rank restrictions for the pvp sets had been lifted - and upset they were, with good reason, as it was about the only thing the PVPers had going for them. What once served as an iconic set that displayed either your prowess or dedication to pvp suddenly became common wear, worn by a bunch of people that never did pvp ever. But it worked I guess... At least it doesn't take 3 hours+ to find a match anymore.

the pvp mentor icon is useless:
first, many confuse it with a "in party" icon, and others do not even know pvp exists.
second, the requirements are useless... pvp mentor when never unlocked a pvp like wut lul?

the only true pvp mentors are recognized singularly inside the pvp community.


the whole mentor system needs to be revisited.

easy solution is to remove all rewards, rewards are for losers, only true reward in pvp is to show off who won

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

So, what you're really trying to say is "I want to be a Mentor without getting either of my gatherers to 60, or without getting a tank, a healer and a dps to 60".

---

Afaik you can do PvP when you are 30 and with a job (not base class), and because the PvP skillset is separate from PvE, there is no need to ask for level 60 on anything.

I think the Mentor thing will be better managed if you have to unlock the single Mentor types separately, with different requirements each, suited to which kind of Mentor you will be. I actually got Mentor status and can put on the DoH crown, but I know nothing of it. My crown must be only the PvE one, not everything. If this will be done, then the crown without a role needs to be given to the people who unlocked all kinds.

Returning to the topic, I think the PvP requirement needs to be: obviously, have the four kind of jobs unlocked (tank, heal, melee and ranged dps), and got a specific rank in the Feast. We can then argue how Feast ranks are obtained today, but it is another discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

Lock it behind Top 100 in Feast then.

---

I like this idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phantom325

Eh. Mentorship through PvE isn't gated behind being part of the Realm First clears, I don't think PvP should be any different. Although I'm probably biased, I like my suggestion of having to earn all 3 Garo mounts as it's fairly time consuming and encompasses both Feast and Frontline, so PvP mentors would have a decent mix of both. Countering the botting point, you're not wrong, however if I wished to bot I could fairly easily write a bot (albeit badly coded and likely to get me banned) that would kill Ifrit normal for me to grind out 1,000 instances overnight.

---

All you are doing is making a time barrier to them with this suggestion, same issue you gave for PvE and gathering. Personally to me it takes longer to get it though gathering and crafting then PvE, but no idea how the 2 compare to PvP. Regardless in the end, the biggest issue with PvP is no matter what you do, you can cheese it with boting. Your own suggestion does not even address your biggest problem with the system of "My point is neither of those really require that much socialization / helpfulness"

I know I am not offering a suggestion because.. tbh I got no idea how fix things, I just know what people are presenting here are not as good as people think the solutions are. Truly fixing this issue is a lot harder then people seem to think, take next example:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

I think both pvp and pve mentors need revamp. Put mentorship based on commendations during Mentor Roullette and change that roullete to include pvp modes. The roullete should be a requirement to be a mentor, not a privilege for mentors to run.

---

People com's are more based on popularity contest. Some do it based on role they are on, some based it on parsers, some do it for glams, some do it for talking in a fun way.. I really do not think people com based on being helpful often. More often then not, you are met with "you do not pay my sub"

and that relates to the problem of this next proposal:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

I still don't see that it makes a difference. If it's so easy, why not just get it that way? Saying "this is too easy, therefore give me another easy way in" isn't any better an alternative.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone clear Ifrit normal 1,000 times with the express purpose of getting mentor - if that really is a thing then... god almighty, go away >,>

What I'd totally get behind is a mentor voting system... If enough sprouts vote you as helpful, you get to keep your status and maybe even a reward along the way.
If on the other hand, by the end of a given month you have less than X... maybe revoke it? And have a down-voting system to punish mentors who give the title a bad name (like the red-mage on another thread posted on this very forum).


I just can't see myself agreeing with giving people yet another easy way in. Plus, even then would the developers care enough to implement? Pvp has never been a very big scene in this mmorpg, if this was such a big issue people would have been in uproar since the mentor system had been implemented - which they haven't.

---

People will abuse it, downvote people to troll someone, esp if someone was trying to be helpful, a person will most likely have the "you do not pay for my sub mentality"

The only real fix I can actually agree with is changing the pvp mentor icon, why does it look like member of party? To me PvP and PvE icons are switched. I was even confused with it at first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Araxes

I like this idea.

---

Why? it is not a fix, and people explained why already

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirch

the whole mentor system needs to be revisited.

---

It does. Especially since many mentors just use the mentor roulette for the sake of getting a guildhest and if they get anything more challenging than that they immediately leave. The two seater mount really should have been locked behind clearing 200 high end duties through the mentor roulette to truly serve as a fitting reward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

snap

---

If the game devs had that approach with everything they implement, half the features our game enjoys wouldn't have ever made it :b
I don't know how it is in ragnarok, but I've never seen a sprout being trolly or going out of their way to annoy someone. Plus, "don't do it because people are mean" has to be the worst reason I've ever seen not to implement a feature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

If the game devs had that approach with everything they implement, half the features our game enjoys wouldn't have ever made it :b
I don't know how it is in ragnarok, but I've never seen a sprout being trolly or going out of their way to annoy someone. Plus, "don't do it because people are mean" has to be the worst reason I've ever seen not to implement a feature.

---

Your proposal is only going to make the problem worse, you are not proposing to implement a feature. The reason the game is easy as it is to appeal to that crowd to begin with. Just because you have not seen it yet, does not mean it has not happen, and thus you can't see your ideas making the situation worse.

Also why do you think there are penalties in the game to begin with? like not hitting the queue pop 3 times and locks you out? It was put in the game because of trolling.

SE will never allow a downvote system in the game for the same reason it is not on the forums.

If I haven't seen it when I started playing, since closed beta, I don't think I'll start seeing it now.
There is the rare exception, but it is what it is - the rare exception. The right-click report feature exists, and I'd consider that far more important (and potentially damaging) than losing a mentor title - and it's still there.

Not everyone is out to get you. Most players are like you and me in that we may be different and have different opinions, but we're all here to enjoy the game and have fun.
Now, if you were to argue that what a given person may consider worthy of a mentor commendation or not might differ from someone else's... that's a whole other subject itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

People com's are more based on popularity contest. Some do it based on role they are on, some based it on parsers, some do it for glams, some do it for talking in a fun way.. I really do not think people com based on being helpful often. More often then not, you are met with "you do not pay my sub"

People will abuse it, downvote people to troll someone, esp if someone was trying to be helpful, a person will most likely have the "you do not pay for my sub mentality"

---

Being popular isn't same as being helpful but it sets the mark of being helpful to one person as being accountable for their advice by many. Think how many people said "Watch a video before you run this or that". This is no different. I've seen bad guides (especially crafting ones) and there's good guides. If someone suggesting running a parser or comms based on it during mentor roullette then there's something wrong with that content (= why would that content need a mentor and put in the roullette). Also I'm not suggesting a vote system, the comms should be reset weekly or every patch to make mentors as relevant as the contents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

Being popular isn't same as being helpful but it sets the mark of being helpful to one person as being accountable for their advice by many. Think how many people said "Watch a video before you run this or that". This is no different. I've seen bad guides (especially crafting ones) and there's good guides. If someone suggesting running a parser or comms based on it during mentor roullette then there's something wrong with that content (= why would that content need a mentor and put in the roullette). Also I'm not suggesting a vote system, the comms should be reset weekly or every patch to make mentors as relevant as the contents.

---

trying to benchmark off coms is useless. People rarely com targeting who went above and beyond to make the run smooth or best performing. Most seem to simply leave without using the com system anyway. It doesn't give a benchmark for anything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

Plus, "don't do it because people are mean" has to be the worst reason I've ever seen not to implement a feature.

---

Inversely, "ban chat in the Feast because (SOME) players are toxic!" is a terrible reason to make such a change, especially when players being nasty toward each other isn't exclusive to PvP. . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Inversely, "ban chat in the Feast because (SOME) players are toxic!" is a terrible reason to make such a change, especially when players being nasty toward each other isn't exclusive to PvP. . .

---

I agree :o

I think mentor in general need work,
Only "hard" think getting 300 commendation but you can easily past by just lv classes.
Legit get Tank to 60 then SCH or SMN your done.
Then farm 1000 Ifrit. Done.
How to lv to 60?
PotD to lv21 then Squad/PotD to Lv50 then Dungeon/PotD to Lv60.

Yeah I kind of agree how it makes no sense to unlock mentor status without ever having done PvP, and then calling yourself a PvP mentor. lol

I don't want murderers teaching today's youth--PvE or PvP. Ban them all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallistra

I don't want murderers teaching today's youth--PvE or PvP. Ban them all.

---

We're not murderers, we're murderhobos. Get it right.

Ok, remove pvp mentor from the normal list, and force people to get 500 frontline wins and 150 feast wins to unlock it, non-retroactively. Then count how many achieve such.