Dark Knight suggestions/request

Dark Knight has been my main since I started last year. I absolutely love the job class. That being said many of us feel that we have been neglected in terms of where we stand in comparison to the other two tanks. To keep it brief aside from seeing a buff to mitigation and a slight increase to dps, I would like to see something like the old delirium combo come back. We often get stuck spamming soul eater, while WAR for example has three combo options that allow them more utility. Having the third combo option for us could even help us have more utility to be beneficial for our team. The old delirium combo allowed us to damage a targets int stat and thus affect its magic damage output. This if done right could benefit the entire party. I honestly think we should go back to that, seeing as how DRK was once the best tank for taking on magic based enemies. Obviously some other changes or effects maybe needed now. I would like to hear what other Dark Knights have to say

Sadly, the Int reduce is a Cross role but not for tank.

Bringing Delirium back in this condition will just make the other person to let down this cross role skill.

I think that Scourge will be way much more efficient than delirium actually, but bringing back a third combo isn't a bad idea, with a reworked delirium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

I think that Scourge will be way much more efficient than delirium actually, but bringing back a third combo isn't a bad idea, with a reworked delirium.

---

I kinda want Scourge is brought back as third combo branching off Siphon slash, like how Goring blade is.

not trying to streamline it really, i also agreee with adding more GCD combos, but i really wish theyd reduce the amount of dark arts skills.To like 2 GCD ones and then mitigation ones. its not fun spamming dark arts every CD. carve and spit should do dmg without dark arts (full effect) no one uses it for the MP unless u just get ressed.
Dark passenger should give MP and be on a higher CD/cost less mp and do more dmg. and not be affected by dark arts, bloodspiller, souleater and power slash should stay using dark arts, they should remove the dark arts effect on the second tier combo(name escapes me atm)


You are using dark arts, and not spamming it every GCD, it would be more fun in my opinion, because right now it just feels too button mashy.


Add in a new combo, perhaps like someone suggested, goring blade in the form of a scourge combo, turn dark mind into another rampart/or give it a unique effect thats actually useful.
Put TBN on a 10 second duration and cost less MP, maybe up the CD timer

need skills that break up the blood guage besides 50/50. make delirium cost 10/20/30 etc. not that drk has an issue with overflow as it only really has bloodspiller to waste on, so its hard to even hit the cap unless ur saving up for a delirium use, but still i think it would be a bit better to have delirium cost less


i think it would be more simple in a way,, but as of now, its not exactly advanced to begin with, got mp? dark arts. no exception. its button mashy and boring.

Actually with a third combo I would rather see some self buffing over scourge to get a unique flavor to dark knight. For example it could apply a status effect to increase mp recovery from blood price/weapon/siphon strike, or give us a speed boost to increase DRK's dps. I think a "goring blade" type combo would make us feel too much like paladin.

The issue I have with a third combo finisher on DRK is that I just don't know what it would actually do. If it's a buff/debuff/DoT that you maintain, then you're just cloning Goring Blade/Storm's Eye, except in a way that's disadvantageous to DRK since Bloodspiller makes DRK's GCD rotation less predictable than WAR or PLD. If it's just more damage, then either Souleater or the new finisher is stronger, and you just always use whichever has more effective potency.

I think there's more of an argument to be made for extending the combo to four GCDs, like DRG, but I don't know if I really like that idea either. Personally I want to see more Blood-based, non-combo GCDs to break up the core Souleater rotation than an actual alternative combo.

They removed all 3 tanks 'combo' mob damage debuff. Halone lost str down. War lost all damage -10% path. Drk lost -10% int down combo. (They removed it from mnk too) They were one of the primary reasons you chose 1 class over the other.

Int down was better than Str down and just added to ignoring plds. Path on war was the strongest mitigation in the game nerfing the entire encounter by a -10% all damage that could be maintained 100% of the time. These skills and individual damage output were the primary drivers of the 3.x tank meta. They drove 2.x DPS meta with Mnk as the only source of int down. Lets not do that again. Regardless of bringing back extra combos and stuff, the debuffs were a failed experiment.

Honestly, while I'm not holding out hope that they're ever coming back, there was more good than bad with the old debuffs, and fixing them (not making them ideal or perfect, but fixing the only actual problem they presented) really would have been as trivial as making them all into 10% Damage Down debuffs.

They were a hell of a lot more interesting and less balance-destroying than the Slashing/Piercing rebuffs, which still are in the game, and they contributed a lot to the sense that party mitigation was a tank's responsibility and a core part of the class role. Super in-depth and interesting? No, but neither is Regen on a healer, and that's not an argument for HoT removal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crater

The issue I have with a third combo finisher on DRK is that I just don't know what it would actually do. If it's a buff/debuff/DoT that you maintain, then you're just cloning Goring Blade/Storm's Eye, except in a way that's disadvantageous to DRK since Bloodspiller makes DRK's GCD rotation less predictable than WAR or PLD. If it's just more damage, then either Souleater or the new finisher is stronger, and you just always use whichever has more effective potency.

I think there's more of an argument to be made for extending the combo to four GCDs, like DRG, but I don't know if I really like that idea either. Personally I want to see more Blood-based, non-combo GCDs to break up the core Souleater rotation than an actual alternative combo.

---

I think at the concept level even Goring blade and Storm's Eye are the same. Its the implementation level where things can differ and offer something unique. Here are a few examples of implementation that would raise our dps through a third combo but in a unique dark flavor.

1) Reduce resource costs for a set period of time while active
2) Lower cooldown time for a set period of time
3) Increase speed for a set period of time
4) Increase resource generation for a set period of time
5) Give Random Procs of Dark Arts and Bloodspillers for a set period of time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I think at the concept level even Goring blade and Storm's Eye are the same. Its the implementation level where things can differ and offer something unique. Here are a few examples of implementation that would raise our dps through a third combo but in a unique dark flavor.

1) Reduce resource costs for a set period of time while active
2) Lower cooldown time for a set period of time
3) Increase speed for a set period of time
4) Increase resource generation for a set period of time
5) Give Random Procs of Dark Arts and Bloodspillers for a set period of time

---

What SE will actually give you: Parry Rate increased by 5% on a new combo with no additional resource gain and bad damage lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aana

What SE will actually give you: Parry Rate increased by 5% on a new combo with no additional resource gain and bad damage lol.

---

Have you seen dark passenger? Your suggestion is still too good.

Yeah sadly it’s hard to justify using dark passenger. It feels a little dated and it’s mp cost is definitely too high to justify using it, except for rare occasions. Especially with dark arts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altan_Haragin

Yeah sadly it’s hard to justify using dark passenger. It feels a little dated and it’s mp cost is definitely too high to justify using it, except for rare occasions. Especially with dark arts.

---

Hard to justify the use, but easy to not even drag the skill in your skill bar. I don't even use it on pack, i got my preference to have some mana on me cause Dark passenger Dark arts vs 4 abyssal drain. The choice is easy lol

I'd like them to even mention DRK during the live letter, even if it's in a "We're gonna keep balancing the tanks, please look forward to it" kind of comment.

Dark Passenger is the farthest thing from bad. DA DP is 500 potency OGCD on 2 enemies, which is actually very powerful for the cost. If a DA is worth 140 potency, DA DP is worth 500 vs 280 potency if spent on 2 DA attacks. I am glad DP isn't useful on ST bc honestly I am running out of buttons for DRK as it is.

Anyway If they did add a third combo end, I do like the idea of a speed buff, as someone said, to differentiate it from PLD and make it unique(and more fun).

I will sometimes use Dark Arts + Dark Passenger on a single target at the start of a fight, because you absolutely will overflow on MP otherwise.

But then, I gave up on trying to be a good DRK on Stormblood's launch. Just feels too unimpressive to try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Dark Passenger is the farthest thing from bad. DA DP is 500 potency OGCD on 2 enemies, which is actually very powerful for the cost. If a DA is worth 140 potency, DA DP is worth 500 vs 280 potency if spent on 2 DA attacks. I am glad DP isn't useful on ST bc honestly I am running out of buttons for DRK as it is.

---

I don't like the idea of an oGCD skill only being useful in certain situations.
This raid tier is even worse for DP, because you only have one situation where DA DP is actually worth: O3s last add phase! If you manage hit Halicarnassus, the giant and all 6 ninjas it is indeed quite the damage potential.

BUT! DP is only usefull when combined with DA. Abyssal Drain is still better than DP - despite being an oGCD - because its cost are nearly half of DP.

In the end non-DA DP is never worth, due to high cost, low potency; DA DP is only worth at 3+ mobs.
DP is an oGCD and for that it is pretty weak. (Just a cost reduction could even make it worth single target.)

Btw how are you running out of buttons as DRK, but not as PLD? My PLD hotbar is full of skills!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Dark Passenger is the farthest thing from bad. DA DP is 500 potency OGCD on 2 enemies, which is actually very powerful for the cost. If a DA is worth 140 potency, DA DP is worth 500 vs 280 potency if spent on 2 DA attacks. I am glad DP isn't useful on ST bc honestly I am running out of buttons for DRK as it is.

---

The cost doesn't justify its use, even in AoE situations. It eats up HALF our MP when used with DA and a quarter without, that cost is way too high for what it does. Also not sure how you're running out of buttons on DRK, PLD uses more buttons than both DRK and WAR.
Without DP slotted I have 3 free spots on DRK, I have 4 free spaces on WAR, and ONE free space on PLD, which is reserved for when I need to LB

Strangely enough, Dark Knight is actually a tank and supposed to not die in large groups. When juggling the the core balancing act of blood generation into Quietus into MP, your oGCD time is at an absolute premium. Rarely rarely will you find the time and MP to blow on a dark arts + dark passenger when you could be using so many other things needed to stay alive or generate more MP to stay alive.

If you're in the clear and safe enough to drop all the drains, TBN, etc. then go for it.

But when you're that safe...maybe that means you should have pulled more things?

The ONLY situations I find myself Dark Passenger-ing in is during blood weapon + quietus shenanigans when the MP bar is doing an Earthbound/Mother 3 thing where I'm getting so much MP from a Quietus but not all at once so I can dump some while it's refilling and it'll still max out. Even then, priority goes to TBN if it's up, or dark arts + dark mind in magic heavy pulls.

Edit: I just don't understand Dark Passenger's unique difficulties when Warrior can berserk out Overpowers and Steel Cyclones like nothing and Paladin gets to Circle of Scorn without any choices involved, you just always press it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

I don't like the idea of an oGCD skill only being useful in certain situations.
This raid tier is even worse for DP, because you only have one situation where DA DP is actually worth: O3s last add phase! If you manage hit Halicarnassus, the giant and all 6 ninjas it is indeed quite the damage potential.

---

To just add to this, not only is it not useful, but in single target situations there are 5 buttons that are really doing nothing for Dark Knights, I don't see why dark passenger should be one of them.

Looking at the top 50 for Ultimate tier and the first dark knight is at 48, this doesn't look good. They need to adjust our potency and rethink how many oGCD's they took away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

This raid tier is even worse for DP, because you only have one situation where DA DP is actually worth: O3s last add phase! If you manage hit Halicarnassus, the giant and all 6 ninjas it is indeed quite the damage potential.

BUT! DP is only usefull when combined with DA. Abyssal Drain is still better than DP - despite being an oGCD - because its cost are nearly half of DP.

In the end non-DA DP is never worth, due to high cost, low potency; DA DP is only worth at 3+ mobs.
DP is an oGCD and for that it is pretty weak. (Just a cost reduction could even make it worth single target.)

---

Non da DP on 2 enemies is still 200 pot vs. DA 140 pot for the same cost so it is worth it but using DA is just better considering how rare add phases are.

It's worth noting that you can squeeze it on neo exdeath during every meteor phase as well.
It's also incredibly good in Shinryu's first phase with tails/heart, although shinryu ain't raid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

snip

---

The cost DOES justify the use, instead of Dark Arting two GCDs, you just use DP instead, it does significantly more damage even at just two enemies. It does feel like it costs an arm and a leg but what's the difference between using that or just DAing two GCDs back to back or using DA on a GCD and also using TBN? The only time it legitimately isn't worth it is if you will need a TBN for heavy mitigation in the next 4 main combo GCDs and will have no mp after using DP.

As for buttons I am already over my limit on DRK where I need to put Quietus and Blood Price on a third xhb, PLD as well is over that limit but by even more. WAR however has 0 space issues. I don't like using a third xhb bc it's super unintuitive to me.

Only time you DA syphon strike is if you're about to cap on mp,which is usually during blood weapon. Also, most people are referring to a single target situation.
In an AoE situation you're using DA +AD and Quietus, which are way more effective than wasting mp on DP. It just isn't worth it. Also the blind on DA + DP conflicts with the (meager) mp gain from blood price.

As for your hotbar, that's honestly a personal problem.

If you're going to blow 2,400 MP on a HP-absorb that doesn't matter you can blow it on +100 potency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

snip

---

It doesn't matter what people "think" or how many people agree, it is a fact that it is the best use of your MP in any AoE situation, especially at 2-3 since AD and Quietus are extremely less effective at such a low number. But it's useless on one target, which I am okay with. However if you aren't using DADP when there is 2+ enemies, you aren't playing DRK to the best of its abilities.

And yes that is a personal problem, I never implied it wasn't. I am just wondering how next expac will work as it is for us controller users ; ;