Crafted Items Vs Dropped items

I think one of the biggest mistakes this game has made was the addition of materia. In 1.18... when darkhold was king, the gear u got from there was the best gear you could get anywhere. Now with the materia system added hypothetically i could go and buy 1 billion gil and pay people to quadruple meld me the best gear in the game without stepping foot outside a city. As of now all the items you can get from killing Primals, farming chests (besides sentinel's) or doing darkhold cant compete with the double and triple melds some people have. On top of that the gear that you can get out of the events is really hard to get whether it be farming a chest for 3 hours to get maybe 2 pieces of mediocre gear or by spamming a primal run over and over getting nothing, or something you already have, or cant even use. If they are gonna make dropped items so hard to obtain AT LEAST make them better than a double melded crafted item. Right now all event type gear is a "look at me" piece not actually very useable in most cases.

I'm really excited about the new classes and the JSE and weapons they will have and they said the weapons will be very hard to obtain.... but if the stats on them are about as good as the current weapons and armor we can get from the current events why even bother.

I am trying to get a answer about that with Devs here.

But until now no answer :(

Is like you said and what i am trying to say in other topic is all SH gear are kinda useless if they aren't meldable since double materia gets better than that :|

devs need to open there eyes. gear is the life force that drives mmos. People want to spend alot of time farming gear that is good. When crafted gear is best it makes the point of all content obsolete. nothing but a bunch of novelty pieces.

I dont even care if they are meldable or not, but if they make the stats on them good enough to compete against melded gear then people would be out trying to get that gear instead of spamming enter in town by themselves.

The reason making them meldable doesnt fix the problem is because say all stronghold gear is meldable, but considering the stats on the gear is about the same or slightly better than a standard crafted piece with no materia..... People will just use crafted pieces anyway cuz it takes 30 seconds to make one compared to a couple hours to farm a dropped item.

In order for people to want to go farm items the gear has to be better than a double meld because otherwise it would a lot easier to just sit in town like everyone is doing now trying to make triple melds.

In my opinion Materia should be used as a way to SUPPLEMENT crafted items so it can be comparable to dropped gear. Materia should be a way for people who cant play all the time to have gear that is close to the level of gear that must be farmed. Materia should NOT be the way to get the best gear in the game. Getting rid of multimelds AND making dropped gear stats better would be the best way in my opinion to make this happen.

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Originally Posted by Shosasosa

In my opinion Materia should be used as a way to SUPPLEMENT crafted items so it can be comparable to dropped gear. Materia should be a way for people who cant play all the time to have gear that is close to the level of gear that must be farmed. Materia should NOT be the way to get the best gear in the game. Getting rid of multimelds AND making dropped gear stats better would be the best way in my opinion to make this happen.

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^ this, Materia should be a way to get gear that is almost as good as dropped gear.

Also, in my opinion best-in-slot should never be something you can just buy from the Market Wards...

Either that or have gear with a specific number of slots for materia. like crafted gear would only have 1 slot for materia and rare crafted gear like dodore doublet or Vintage items would have 2 slots. gear from dungeons would have 3 and so forth

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Originally Posted by Shosasosa

I think one of the biggest mistakes this game has made was the addition of materia. In 1.18... when darkhold was king, the gear u got from there was the best gear you could get anywhere. Now with the materia system added hypothetically i could go and buy 1 billion gil and pay people to quadruple meld me the best gear in the game without stepping foot outside a city. As of now all the items you can get from killing Primals, farming chests (besides sentinel's) or doing darkhold cant compete with the double and triple melds some people have. On top of that the gear that you can get out of the events is really hard to get whether it be farming a chest for 3 hours to get maybe 2 pieces of mediocre gear or by spamming a primal run over and over getting nothing, or something you already have, or cant even use. If they are gonna make dropped items so hard to obtain AT LEAST make them better than a double melded crafted item. Right now all event type gear is a "look at me" piece not actually very useable in most cases.

I'm really excited about the new classes and the JSE and weapons they will have and they said the weapons will be very hard to obtain.... but if the stats on them are about as good as the current weapons and armor we can get from the current events why even bother.

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Actually, very few of the Batraal weapons were ever the best; they were usually tied by +1/+2 gear and beaten by +3s. There were exceptions, of course, but not many. Similarly, Helm of the Lone Knight was just a remodeled Silver Tricorne; the stats were identical, so a +1 Tricorne removed the need to ever have the Helm unless you wanted bragging rights. . .

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not really holding out much hope for these guys to ever get a clue in regards to making gear. . .

i wasnt too familiar with the melee gear cuz i went as mage and all the mage items in darkhold were the best pieces you could have at the time

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Originally Posted by Shosasosa

i wasnt too familiar with the melee gear cuz i went as mage and all the mage items in darkhold were the best pieces you could have at the time

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Hmmm. . . my old notes seem to put the Vintage series on par with the Claret series, but I'm far from a caster, so I doubt I took everything into consideration there. Curious, though: how did the Astaroth Cane compare to a Jade Crook +2?

Note: according to my old notes, I was wrong before about NQ Tricornes being equal to the Helm; however, a +1 was arguably better, and a +2 was better in every way. Tricorne +3 was probably all-around best gear in the game for melee unless you were stacking HP for some crazy reason.

i dont really care the point was that before materia darkhold gear was some of the best items in the game, now its not worth the time to get

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Originally Posted by Shosasosa

i dont really care the point was that before materia darkhold gear was some of the best items in the game, now its not worth the time to get

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And my point was that SE has yet to not fail at making new items. >_>

I think one must take into account the balance that must be maintained between NM/Coffer dropped gear and the crafting community. If one is obviously superior than the other, then the lesser gear will be completely foregone and obsolete. This is the argument presented by the op: that 2x and 3x melded gear is par superior to Green NM/Coffer dropped gear and thus no one cares to go gear hunting in such dungeons as Darkhold.

So how do the game developers go about implementing gear that can stimulate the crafting community, the in game economy, AND make rare gear hunting a worthwhile endeavor altogether. A simple solution would be to implement Highly Notorious Monsters, more Primal Fights, and Dungeons with bosses or coffers that drop rare/ex gear that is superior to multi melded gear - but this gear will have to be so hard to obtain that multi melded gear will become a necesity to defeat the said Mob that drops said piece of gear.

Also more HNM/Primal/Dungeon dropped raw materials that can be crafted into top tier gear would present an obious balance between the two. The problem we face is that the gear that is superior post 3x multmeld is crafted from materials that are easily farmable, such as felt or cobalt. Another solution would be to make this gear crafted from rare drop raw materials rare/ex UPON EQUIP so that it can be traded or sold up until someone decides to equip the piece.

it doesnt mstter if ther items are new or not if they suck

There has to be a balance.

If dropped gear is better than crafted, then everyone will complain that crafting classes are useless because all anyone wants is event gear.

SE is screwed either way. Can't please everyone.

um no, dropped gear in almost every game is better than crafted except in very rare cases, like in XI all the best weapons besides like Kraken club were not sellable and all the armor had to be earned not bought. some accessories and smaller things were crafted but like 90% of the armor that was considered the best HAD to be farmed whether it was sellable or not.

Like i said before if all the best gear is crafted why bother going and doing any of the content

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Like i said before if all the best gear is crafted why bother going and doing any of the content

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Because it's fun?

One thing that scares me the most is that the cool looking gear is crappy compared to the bland gear, >_> In every game ever made, the whole point of leveling up and farming was to get that bad ass looking gear with sweet stats..

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

There has to be a balance.

If dropped gear is better than crafted, then everyone will complain that crafting classes are useless because all anyone wants is event gear.

SE is screwed either way. Can't please everyone.

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Not really, Crafted items would be needed in order to complete the content needed to obtain the dropped items.
if the content wasn't doable nekkid or in reindeer outfit that is.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Not really, Crafted items would be needed in order to complete the content needed to obtain the dropped items.
if the content wasn't doable nekkid or in reindeer outfit that is.

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The question remains then, how long does the event gear last?

If crafted gear is only good till event gear is obtained, then there's no use for it after that and the market dies once people have their items. That is, unless a patch comes after an even is released that puts in recipes better than current event gear in anticipation of releasing better event gear in the future.

It'd be much better to just create a balance between the two.

What about Bonus Stats for complete sets of event gears that mkae event gears on par with multi melds?

I believe one of the two things should start to happen.

Dropped gear has attributes not found on crafted gear or materia. Such as a trait-like effect that could reduce cooldown of an ability, increase the effect, reduced MP or TP costs, the like.

Where HQ quality multi-melded gear may be statistically superior without the unique effects.

Unless.the reverse becomes.true. Boss drops are statistically superior to multi melded HQ gear, but materia adds the.unique effects. Allowing crafted gear to be of a tactical improvement versus increased overall power with uncustomizable effects.

The compromise: bosses drop an untradeable token. Crafters make some type of base item. Adventurer has the token, buys the needed crafted item, and turns both in for a superior item.

Example: Crafter makes Adamantium Sword. Boss drops Soul of Odin. Some esper blacksmith fuses the two and creates the superior Excaliber.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I believe one of the two things should start to happen.

Dropped gear has attributes not found on crafted gear or materia. Such as a trait-like effect that could reduce cooldown of an ability, increase the effect, reduced MP or TP costs, the like.

Where HQ quality multi-melded gear may be statistically superior without the unique effects.

Unless.the reverse becomes.true. Boss drops are statistically superior to multi melded HQ gear, but materia adds the.unique effects. Allowing crafted gear to be of a tactical improvement versus increased overall power with uncustomizable effects.

The compromise: bosses drop an untradeable token. Crafters make some type of base item. Adventurer has the token, buys the needed crafted item, and turns both in for a superior item.

Example: Crafter makes Adamantium Sword. Boss drops Soul of Odin. Some esper blacksmith fuses the two and creates the superior Excaliber.

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The problem is, in truth the people who craft in this game are the ones who have dedicated their time and efforts into item creation. If they make dropped gear better than their gear, it would be equivalent to making the best classes for high end content be the crafting classes.

It may be a hard pill to swallow, but those who have dedicated 50 levels of leveling towards item creation, should be able to create items that matter, or in some other way be at the forefront of the best itemisation in the game.

Of course i understand that hard content needs to have rewards that make it worthwhile to go through all the hassle. I have pondered this dilemna for some time before this thread.

the best solution i can come up with.

The best gear should not come from battle content, especially in this game, that requires an extremely large time and money investment into leveling a craft.

I) Raids/battles/hard should offer events, or key items that unlock a couple of things.

a) rare skins. (lets say you can change the look of any weapon to ifrit)

b) and charachter growth options not found anywhere else.
this could take a number of forms. such as,

1.special abilities

2.added modifiers to base stats

3 modifiers to equipment stats or abilities (the added fire dmg trait on ifrit for example)

c) this growth could be linked to tokens, a special raiding exp, or just for clearing certain content, or any combination.


So in my imagined setup, it would be somewhat similar to now. There would be gear drops in raids/dungeons/events but they would be inferior to a highly crafted item, such as a triple melded +1 item.
however, those that raid could make any weapon look like an ifrit equivalent weapon, and the ability to add special fire damage trait to their attacks. They would also be able to unlock a level of expertise, that, for example unlocks a 1% damage bonus with great axe for thier charachters.


In this way both crafting and raiding are most relevant towards progression. The best raider makes better use of any weapon. The best crafter can make both the least expensive items, and the best items in game, with raiders being able to obtain fairly mid/high range gears on their own. but best of the best comes out of the hands of a master craftsman.

I think the key is, if you want to make a game with a viable crafting element, take the item control out of the hands of battle focused people, however, give battle focused people a method of improving thier charachter that only comes from doing the best battles.

100000000% agree with the OP, materia ruined this games replay value.

It's sadly too late to remove the crappy system and I doubt they will even try to change it.

Materia should have been a simple socketing system that could be used on all items, each item would have had different slots similar to how FF7 did it.

That being said because I doubt there is any way they will change the materia system now, it would make more sense that dungeons and NM's now drop rare crafting items.

They really need to make dunegon rewards relevent again otherwise the game is going to fail massively in 2.0

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Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not really holding out much hope for these guys to ever get a clue in regards to making gear. . .

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This !

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There has to be a balance.

If dropped gear is better than crafted, then everyone will complain that crafting classes are useless because all anyone wants is event gear.

SE is screwed either way. Can't please everyone.

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Yoshi already retracted the statement that crafting would be a main class in game (as far as content was considered), I think he would be wise to try and phase the importance of crafting out over the next year or so, try and do it in a way where crafters don't notice lol -.-

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Because it's fun?

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Maybe the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time its fun then its just becomes boring like Darkhold and nobody bothers anymore.

I do think the dev team are aware of the issue though, I'm curious what they plan to do about it, someone needs to ask this question in the next live letter.

Yea there are like 5 thread on the same topic but none of them have any devs posts on it so i dont know if they are ignoring the issue or if they are just going to ninja change things but i hope something happens.

I agree with Physic, the way is for EG content ( primals, dungeons) and Craft content not to overlap each other but rather complement each other. Meaning no more equipment drop for EG, leave that to crafters/materia, because as Jinko said, we are stuck with the materia system, they wont change/remove it anytime soon.

The dev should really consider the post about this problem, as imo I do not see any reason to hunt EG gear if I can get better with craft.

Agreed with jinko, Moogle is fun the first time, but do it 70 time to end up with 2 weapons and like 5 nuts, not funny (but that is another topic).

I agree with most of the comments here.
When I saw '2 new raids' in the dev post of 1.21, I was like 'yay more useless stuff, because melded gear will pwn it!'.
I always loved raids, and new events, to get cooler looking & better gear. Now I'm just disappointed that even the 'best' gear of raids is even worse then a lot of unmelded gear.
This is not how an MMO should work.

If the new items of the 2 new raids aren't better then at least a double melded piece of equipment, I'll probably won't even botter getting the items. I'll just want the achievements for that raid, then never do it again.
Same thing with JSE. If they aren't at least better or equal to a double melded piece of gear, no one will wear it.

*Remebers the good days of WHOAAA Relic +1 gear! You are crazy!*

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Originally Posted by Finalfreak

When I saw '2 new raids' in the dev post of 1.21, I was like 'yay more useless stuff, because melded gear will pwn it!'.

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How do you know the two new raid's gear wont be as good if not better than 2x Materia IV melded crafted gear?

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Originally Posted by Matsume

How do you know the two new raid's gear wont be as good if not better than 2x Materia IV melded crafted gear?

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Originally Posted by Finalfreak

If the new items of the 2 new raids aren't better then at least a double melded piece of equipment, I'll probably won't even botter getting the items.

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It was just my first thought :)

This thread hits it right on the head! After the initial implementation of materia I seldom play. And the core problem is the same thing that is at the heart of the failure of this game Imo. Crafting classes never should have been considered as important as battle classes. PERIOD. WOW had a great idea imo for, and example of how to fuel player crafting by adding battle related bonuses or abilites generated by lvln certain crafts. Ex.- skinners got +crit bonus from lvln it up. Hell that woulda worked well with the old trait system pre 1.20 wouldn't it. +crit bonus trait BAMM!
I agree with jinkos idea. Materia shoulda been slotted just like ff7. And even where Shosa explained certain amounts of slots per item type. Say one for U/U etc. I personally would have liked to see the process of the number of materia on a piece and the materia placed in it seperated into two process'. Have the same system we have with high risk when tryn to add extra slot to weapon and gear. BUT make adding materia after the fact 100% As long at the materia grade matches the slot grade. Its one thing to lose the gear. Its another thing to blow up the materia and all. So keep materia in circulation. When you remove materia it is lost. I mean look what SE tryed with accesory points. Can they apply a materia point system per peice of gear. I for one am sorely disappointed to see a guy running around with a peice of gear with 241+ hp. Thats two tier 3 and two tier 4. thats completely OP. I can see several tier 1 2 and 3 on a single peice but two tier 3 and two tier 4! How can you possibly balance anything content wise around such a system.
Crafting classes should have never been considered mains! Yes its cool to be famous cause your one of the best crafters on the server but Devs, you keep taking all the things that showed real crafting excellence out. I think most of the community understands the need to remove +2 and +3 items. Again i cant wait to see 2.0.
I personally can't wait to see what Af gear stats look like not to mention their "hotness" effect.
What are the Jp forums saying about materia? And how about a dev responce on this. Seem to be several topics about it. Whats materia gona look like 2.0?