Let Me Play as an NPC?

Obviously, I don't mean carefully editing our looks and glamour to RP as an NPC, which many, many people already do. And yes, I realise that being able to play as an NPC... kind of makes them not an NPC. But you know what I mean.

What I would like is, having certain instanced solo fights, in which we get to choose if we'd like to play as an NPC, and hand the reins of our WoL off to the computer. So for that instance, our WoL essentially becomes an NPC helper, and we play as the NPC. Our skills become the skills of that NPC's class or job, and we get to step into their shoes.

Hmmm...I wouldn't quite get the joy out of playing as an NPC because whatever class/job they master, their skills won't be any different from ours.
For example, Alisaie is a RDM and that's my main class; if I were to play as her, I would use her the same way I use my WoL during battle - our abilities will be the same.

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Originally Posted by DreamAngel-Ren

Hmmm...I wouldn't quite get the joy out of playing as an NPC because whatever class/job they master, their skills won't be any different from ours.
For example, Alisaie is a RDM and that's my main class; if I were to play as her, I would use her the same way I use my WoL during battle.

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I'd imagine the idea is more akin to how vehicle controls are or how WoW does it. You take control of an NPC, regardless of their class/job/whatever, and they have some form of special skills or spells that players don't have to do their thing with. Like if you took control of Raubahn, he'd have a primary single target attack, a cleave, a single target or aoe charge/jump attack, and maybe a heal mechanic of sorts.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I'd imagine the idea is more akin to how vehicle controls are or how WoW does it.

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I know you were just citing WoW as an example of a way it could be done, but it should be noted that vehicle fights in WoW were largely despised by the player base. It's why Blizz pretty much scrapped them in recent expansions, especially in multi-player content. In fact in the first 5-man dungeon they tried to implement vehicle combat in, including an entire boss fight, they had to go back later and add a previously raid-exclusive mount to said boss's loot table, just to bribe people into not bailing as soon as they zoned in.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I know you were just citing WoW as an example of a way it could be done, but it should be noted that vehicle fights in WoW were largely despised by the player base. It's why Blizz pretty much scrapped them in recent expansions, especially in multi-player content. In fact in the first 5-man dungeon they tried to implement vehicle combat in, including an entire boss fight, they had to go back later and add a previously raid-exclusive mount to said boss's loot table, just to bribe people into not bailing as soon as they zoned in.

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Sorry, I meant vehicle controls in XIV (magitek armors, gobwalkers, or daily quest mounts) or the NPC control you have in certain quests in WoW. I think it started in WotLK expansion, with players playing as the Lich King a quest or two. Vehicle control was buggy in WoW, but I think that had a lot to do with scale (e.g. you're in a giant tank killing off enemies that are pixels in size compared). The NPC quests, like the mentioned Lich King one or any Legion ones, are a lot less buggy in controlling it.

The dungeon one you were talking about wasn't really because vehicles were despised, so much as it was because it required strategy that your characters couldn't just brute force through, assuming we're talking about The Oculus. In other words, a bad player or collective group of them would result in a bad time. Taking on noticeably important roles and having equal responsibility is going to be just as unpopular to people as it would be if every job here had the responsibility of playing a tank and/or healer for the first time ever in the middle of endgame fight. Had it been as mindless as it is today in WoW (or even XIV), it'd probably have been just fine. Strategy is very unpopular of a thing to require with PUGs in any game ever.

No thank you,I love my character more than any NPCs.
There is no reason for me to play as NPC in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I'd imagine the idea is more akin to how vehicle controls are or how WoW does it. You take control of an NPC, regardless of their class/job/whatever, and they have some form of special skills or spells that players don't have to do their thing with. Like if you took control of Raubahn, he'd have a primary single target attack, a cleave, a single target or aoe charge/jump attack, and maybe a heal mechanic of sorts.

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That's pretty much how I envisioned it would work. NPCs shouldn't and wouldn't be identical to the WoL in terms of what skills they can use, after all. There might be some overlap, certainly, but not always. For example, Alphinaud may be an arcanist, but he uses Ruby, Obsidian, and Moonstone carbuncles, each of them with unique skills. It also could just be an optional feature, not a mandatory storyline progression mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

No thank you,I love my character more than any NPCs.
There is no reason for me to play as NPC in the first place.

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I could see there being good reason for it, actually. Currently the story is limited in scope because outside of very occasional, short scenes, it can only show us scenarios the WoL could reasonably be present for. If we were able to switch PoVs to another character on occasion, it would vastly increase the freedom the writers have to tell/show us parts of the story outside of what we're directly able to see.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I could see there being good reason for it, actually. Currently the story is limited in scope because outside of very occasional, short scenes, it can only show us scenarios the WoL could reasonably be present for. If we were able to switch PoVs to another character on occasion, it would vastly increase the freedom the writers have to tell/show us parts of the story outside of what we're directly able to see.

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If you mean the side-stories outside MSQ,SE has already added them on Lodestone.
The tale of dragon-something about Aymaric and Estinien’s past,well I didn’t read them though.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I could see there being good reason for it, actually. Currently the story is limited in scope because outside of very occasional, short scenes, it can only show us scenarios the WoL could reasonably be present for. If we were able to switch PoVs to another character on occasion, it would vastly increase the freedom the writers have to tell/show us parts of the story outside of what we're directly able to see.

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Youi mean kill the freedom cause then it'll cause a bigger overlap that wasn't there before. Maybe I'm just not seeing it tho, but yeah I don't see the benefits to doing that. I want MORE WOL actions instead of being an NPC doing shit.. make/let ME as the WOL/main character do more things ingame please... not less. D:

You can't play as an NPC becuase it stands for NON player character. as soon as you play it it ceases to be an NPC.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

If you mean the side-stories outside MSQ,SE has already added them on Lodestone.
The tale of dragon-something about Aymaric and Estinien’s past,well I didn’t read them though.

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But wouldn't it be nice to actually get to play through those events, with pretty cutscenes and maybe even (probably not, but a cat can hope) voice acting? As the game is now, locked into the WoL's PoV, nothing like that will ever be possible.

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

Youi mean kill the freedom cause then it'll cause a bigger overlap that wasn't there before. Maybe I'm just not seeing it tho, but yeah I don't see the benefits to doing that. I want MORE WOL actions instead of being an NPC doing shit.. make/let ME as the WOL/main character do more things ingame please... not less. D:

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The best example I can think of where the game could benefit from it is (HW MSQ spoiler)

when Aymeric goes to confront his father, and you take one path through the vault while your NPC friends go to rescue him. I realize that this was done mainly to avoid similar issues to 2.0 dungeons with a lot of cutscenes, but The whole trip through The Vault felt really empty and disjointed to me, because you missed a bunch of events that really needed to be shown for the sake of good storytelling.

There's also instances like (SB MSQ spoiler)

Thancred sneaking in to the Garlean base to look for Krille, and whatever Estinien's been doing this whole time that led him to save our bacon from being blasted extra-crispy, which could have been very interesting sequences to play through, but instead had to be confined to very brief side scenes.

I understand wanting to be the main character and do everything you possibly can, but the WoL cannot physically be everywhere at once, and there are some places they cannot reasonably be or access at all, and it would benefit the storytelling to have more options to get around that.

No thanks I hate playing as something other than my character. I play MMOs becuase I can be my own character if I wanted to play someone else I'd be playing Deus Ex Human Revolution becuase Jensen has the best pointiest beard you could probably cut diamonds with.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

You can't play as an NPC becuase it stands for NON player character. as soon as you play it it ceases to be an NPC.

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That's just being overly pedantic, there.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

No thanks I hate playing as something other than my character. I play MMOs becuase I can be my own character if I wanted to play someone else I'd be playing Deus Ex Human Revolution becuase Jensen has the best pointiest beard you could probably cut diamonds with.

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...
Oh.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I understand wanting to be the main character and do everything you possibly can, but the WoL cannot physically be everywhere at once, and there are some places they cannot reasonably be or access at all, and it would benefit the storytelling to have more options to get around that.

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If you've played FF IX, you'll remember the Active Time Events they had. I know a lot of people disliked them because for some reason, they hate experiencing an FF story, but I absolutely love what they do for storytelling. And that's kind of what I want for FF XIV: the opportunity to see a story outside of the WoL's.

The only thing I didn't like about that feature in XI was having to go back to your last save and re-do the section to see all of them. Otherwise it was a great idea.

I'm eternally bewildered by the people who play FF games but have no interest in the story. Sure, the gameplay is okay and all, but certainly not good enough to carry the game if you hate the story so much...

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Originally Posted by Lukha

SE PLEASE stop with the stupid post limit... PLEASE. it's 2017 for godsakes....

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It's not that I hate story.. but MMOS have that thing where you are part of it instead of playing a movie character you didn't make at all. So while I can understand your idea, it's better done in single player games in my opinion :c. I just don't want MORE stuff taken away from us, like it's bad enough for most of the game all we - WOL - did was 'watch" as NPCs did all the kool shit. It's like canonwise we're nothing and not even the main character. I want to FEEL like the actual main character here and not like I'm just watching NPCs do cool crap. Let ME do all that in cutscenes and gameplay. Not less. T.T

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

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There's also a nostalgia factor in my suggestion, too - so many FF games had sections that allowed or even required you to play as someone other than the main character, not just FF IX. Of course, the gameplay was so much different back then - a turn-based battle system meant that switching to a different player character didn't really impact the gameplay as much as, say, switching to Prompto did in his Episode. And it's not like this would be "taking stuff" away from us. Given how this device has been used in previous FF games, it could instead enhance the story greatly.

For example, let's go back to FF IX: During the fall of Alexandria (no I'm not spoiler-tagging the plot of a 17-year-old game and I don't care if it was just re-released), we got to play as Garnet, rushing around the castle, giving out orders, etc, and then we got to shift perspectives to Steiner and Beatrix right in the thick of the action, which helped to broaden the player's perspective of the invasion so much.

Also, we got to play as Beatrix, and that was sick as hell.

Now, let's apply this to FF XIV: Say that, in the Naadam fight, you were given two options when entering it. You could either play as yourself, normally, or, for that fight only, you got to switch perspectives and play as Hien, alongside your WoL. There could be all sorts of different things to make it unique and challenging: Hien doesn't have the Echo and can't see AoE markers, for example.

Or, imagine if, after playing through Doma Castle as the WoL, there was a small section where you got to play as either Hien, Gosetsu, or Yugiri, cutting their own path through the dungeon.

And finally, having the WoL actually fight in cutscenes would be too much work to animate, really. I get that it would be great to see us not being useless, but SE would have to account for every single job there is in the game, and how it would handle each battle they animate. In all honesty, it's best to just accept that, as the WoL, you're the main character of the story you log on to play every day, but you aren't necessarily the main character of the actual story. If we were the actual main character of SB, Lyse wouldn't have had to exist, and I wouldn't have to resist the urge to slap her stupid lying face every time I saw her.

(also: inb4 we get Final Fantasy XIV: Episode Estinien)