im tired of getting i200 tank getting one shot by bosses busters in sirensong
or getting i50 healer that cant heal me when im tanking 2 mobs also in sirensong
Can we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?
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11-11-2017, 09:42 PMLORD_METATRONCan we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?
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11-11-2017, 09:47 PMBigRed53920_0;; damQuote:
Originally Posted by LORD_METATRON
ya i've been wanting this for a while. Not for your reasons, it just makes sense. Quests/dungeons give you gear no point not to have a min Ilvl requirement.
If anything, ask the ppl with the low Ilvl to leave or kick them stated their Ilvl is to low. -
11-11-2017, 09:49 PMLORD_METATRONi would if dps not refused to kick due they waited 30+ mins to enterQuote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
they rather keep on the bad run than re-queue for aanother 30+ mins -
11-11-2017, 09:52 PMBigRed5392i woulda asked to be kicked at that point. If they refuse get a gm involved, as what their doing can be considered trolling. this was an issue in ARR when ppl would wear crafting/gathering gear to sp in a dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_METATRON
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11-11-2017, 09:52 PMArrius
I cast my doubts on that statement. Shire gear is easy to get, and even cheap-o i255 gear can be bought at the first minutes into the expansion.
Even if you have them for some reason, why do you bother keeping them in your group instead of making them leave or get them kicked out? Save yourself the trouble and step out if that isn't helping. There's no need to carry such people. -
11-11-2017, 09:59 PMBigRed5392it happens, not everyone runs to gear up, they just quest after quest after quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrius
from time to time in ARR dungeons i see ppl with crafting gear, gathering gear or out of date gear even to this day.
He also stated, he tried the dps didn't care and didn't want to re-queue. Which happens a lot.
what also doesn't help is you have a 30 min leave penalty. :/ so even if the OP leaves they gotta wait 30min. This happens more the you think. -
11-11-2017, 10:10 PMSenorPattyI find it really ironic, as keeping a tank who cant survive bosses makes the run just as long (if not even longer) as their wait time. Same goea truly undergeared healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_METATRON
I get the waiting frustration but nothing would make me keep running the dgn with those sorts of people. I'll gladly kick or get kicked or even eat the penalty than ruin my night. -
11-11-2017, 10:57 PMmicropanther7Yeah I remember that in ARR, people used to do spiritbonding in dungeons (is that still a thing?), refer to last post in this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
and this thread here fun times :) -
11-11-2017, 11:02 PMKingMeteo
Elitism, because they want to speed run their roulettes.
This doesn't happen every run.
The leveling roulettes are supposed to be there to help low levels get thru their dungeons. Teach and be patient or leave.
Flame away. -
11-11-2017, 11:16 PMFelisNobody have to run dungeons to gear up for leveling dungeons. Just run first to the next vendor NPC before enter the queue. Who can't even do that earn a kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
Kicking someone who is in a dungeon with DoH/DoL gear or with gears that are 100-200 ilevel lower than the gear in that dungeon is helping him. It encourage him to think about his gear and get better ones that fit his job and the ilevel range of the dungeon.Quote:
The leveling roulettes are supposed to be there to help low levels get thru their dungeons. Teach and be patient or leave.
Flame away.
Vendor NPCs sell gears, no excuses.
Helping =/= carrying -
11-11-2017, 11:28 PMLaylaTsarra
The current system is fine. There are rarely problems in duties that I run and I run a lot of them with a main and 7 alts.
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11-12-2017, 12:03 AMDzianDepends in how it's tuned. An I level gate for entry doesn't have to be as tightly tuned as for say an ex primal or something such. So it doesn't have to be a major obstacle to players. You could for example have an I level requirement of the vault to 115 or the global library to 120. Being as all of those dungeons were easily manageable in full ironworks you really didn't need to be 142 or 145. So a 120 entry wouldnt be a barrier to many people.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
Stormblood is much the same. You can run and clear right up to castrum Albania in 260 gear. So giving it a 260 I level gate shouldn't be a problem especially now the newer levelling dungeons guarantee loot drops.
While it may not be terribly common to get people so underrated it does happen and it does have a big impact on the entire group. So some kind of I level gate would help. -
11-12-2017, 12:03 AMVivi_BushidoI have done this in alliance parties that wipe a bunch but you always get those groups that're like "If you don't like it, leave. Suffer the 30min."Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
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11-12-2017, 12:11 AMMavriasIn Bardam's Mettle, if you need to be "taught" better gear theres honestly no hope for you. i200 in Stormblood content is unacceptable and you deserve to be kicked at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
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11-12-2017, 12:36 AMRiceisNiceTo be honest, I'd assumed that by the time they're at the level range where DoL/DoH gear is at least 60+ilvl lower, or to the point it makes a significant difference, they would know the type of gear and stats they need. Heck, level 60+ DoL/DoH gear is class restricted so you can't even do that unless you purposely downgrade your gear level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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11-12-2017, 01:21 AMMistakeNotOnly helps if you tell them why you are kicking them. They won't be able to figure that out for themselves - if they could, they would have had better gear to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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11-12-2017, 01:23 AMMistakeNotEscpecially since you need i230 gear to be able to even enter the last of the HW MSQ dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
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11-12-2017, 01:26 AMCalteru...listen, if you're not gonna try and help your fellow player, why even PUG in the first place? Just stick to a static group. I mean, would it kill you to offer pointers?Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD_METATRON
(No, really, would it?) -
11-12-2017, 01:29 AMCalteruYou gonna pay my sub if you're gonna tell me what to do? Because I have a LOT of retainers and I'm used to taking orders, so if you wanna pay then you can tell me what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrias
I mean, I don't even WANT to queue for this stuff. I *have* to. Told 'em in Menagerie Normal last night - thankfully, they got me through it, and I'm repaying the kindness by not queuing.
There's a lot of us who don't want to be there any more than you want us there. TRY to keep that in mind (but I know you won't). -
11-12-2017, 01:33 AMOscuraDo you even realize how ridiculous this sounds? "Stick to a static group," for dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calteru
Offering pointers won't change the fact that they queued up in gear that doesn't meet the requirements to run the dungeon or how painful it will be to run with them. Maybe they should think about helping their fellow players by not being dramatically undergeared for content?
It's like when I ran The Aery and had a WAR using a moogle axe, that's i75, in a dungeon that drops i136 gear. Even upon being asked why they were using that weapon when you can buy NPC gear that's stronger in Foundation, they simply said "no money and lost my old axe," making it 100% clear they purposefully queued up knowing they'd be a detriment. Though go ahead, continue and tell me how I should "stick to a static group," while my tank can't even hold hate away from me.
Oh, you use, "you don't pay my sub," unironically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calteru
oh. -
11-12-2017, 01:37 AMSpeckledBurdIt's pretty much impossible to speedrun a leveling dungeon because iLevel synchs to a maximum, what's being asked for here is for a minimum to be added so you don't, for example, get The Aery in a roulette where a Tank is wearing i70 gear and is getting two shotted by mobs in single pack pulls. There's a point where there not being an entry ilevel is an inconvenience to the three other players who all have to wait significantly longer than the tank to get into a dungeon than the Tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
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11-12-2017, 01:50 AMMavriasHelp your fellow player with... what exactly? They know very well they should have better gear than that. Theres no pointer i can give than the game does by literally drowning you in HQ gear during the msq. The OP is asking for the game to be more direct about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calteru
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11-12-2017, 02:30 AMMavriasI dont have to pay your sub. I can just kick you when i ask you to equip gear appropriate for the dungeon and you tell me I dont pay your sub. Because again, the game literally hands you gear throughout the msq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calteru
And if you dont want to play the game, then why are you? -
11-12-2017, 02:38 AMCanopia
I dont know how one can be undergeared for leveling, in order to do the dungeons you need to do the story and the story pretty much showers you with gear as you level. This sounds like a people issue with some players being posterior head accessories than a game issue.
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11-12-2017, 02:55 AMAzperMaybe in pre-50 content, I'll give you that. But after that, people should have a handle on how the gearing process works. At that point they're trolling or just lazy, neither of which should earn any sympathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
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11-12-2017, 03:11 AMalimdiaAlt jobs, someone gets to 61 in PotD/PvP, doesn't buy shire, the system allows them to queue for sirensong in their AF2 gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canopia
It doesn't happen very often, but it shouldn't happen at all, there's no reason why the first SB story dungeon can be done with lower ilvl than the last HW story dungeon. -
11-12-2017, 03:14 AMJijifliWhen I was leveling Ninja, I got into a sirensong with another dps, being a SAM, in item level 130 gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
Obviously, they did no damage, but here's the kicker. First boss has a stack mechanic, remember? We all get into it together, even the tank. Despite that, the SAM was one shotted.
Are you telling me it's okay for them to go in like that? If they do the mechanic perfectly and still get one shotted, they easily do not have enough damage. Also, extra note, LB2 on last boss did 4% of the bosses health. The party Item level was so low because there was a dps in full i130 and a few off pieces from the tank and healer that our limit break did 4 bloody percent. -
11-12-2017, 03:21 AMVaer
IMO the first dungeon in each expansion should have a min ilvl since the ilvl spread at 50 and 60 can be quite high. Mostly an issue with alt jobs on the same character. I've been in dusk vigil where the tank was really ungeared, it was a pain. They would nearly die every time even when trash mobs hit them.
Either that or on the job quests, at 30, 50, and 60 give people a better boxes of gear or something. At lower levels its not as noticeable but I've seen people wearing level 1 weathered accessories in brayflox normal due to certain jobs unlocking at 30 and having no accessories to use. -
11-12-2017, 03:57 AMakaneakkiLike mentors whos supposed to help players get gud but they make them worse in most cases lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
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11-12-2017, 03:59 AMHyoMinParkDungeons are not content that require statics. Please. The MSQ gives you i255 gear before you even reach Sirensong. This game practically throws gear at players, so there is no excuse to enter Sirensong in sub 240 gear at the lowest (3.x quests give players 240 gear from what I have heard now).Quote:
Originally Posted by Calteru
Even on alt jobs, this game barfs poetics at players, and Shire gear is easily affordable after doing some dailies. But people entering Stormblood content with gear from ARR? It's just inexcusable. -
11-12-2017, 04:09 AMBaci
Saw a PLD today in MSQ Roulette with the original Ilvl 50 Zantetsuken...please SE minimum Ilvl are more than needed for every Dungeon
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11-12-2017, 04:12 AMValkyrie_LennethThat is actually an acceptable weapon for MSQ Roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baci
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11-12-2017, 04:15 AMTsumdereYou can absolutely be undergeared for leveling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canopia
I had a tank in the Vault in level 1 accessories. Granted, this tank mentioned that this was her first MMO and when I pointed it out she apologized profusely and asked if she should leave (we let them stay because DPS was great and I was healing). Had it been anyone else though...
Do you think wearing level 1 gear in the Vault is acceptable? Do you think wearing level 50 gear in Sirensong Sea is acceptable? Especially when the offender is snippy or defensive when you point it out? -
11-12-2017, 04:16 AMkikix12
Lvl60 job quest gives ilvl210 tomestone gear now, so that's as low as they get for doing any content past 60. Still too low...but hey.
All in all, this is an MMO game balanced around gear. There is such a thing as playing the game the wrong way, and going into a dungeon with vastly underleveled gear is a bit excessive. It's one thing when someone's having low gear but still manageable for the content, it's another thing if they should have gotten a better gear for past dungeon or two already. Glamour prisms are dirt-cheap now and a full set can be even gotten from two or three runs of whatever highest level dungeon one have access to (by selling the gear for grand company seals and buying the prisms for 250 per one), so glamour is absolutely no argument there, either. -
11-12-2017, 04:40 AMBourne_EndeavorIf I'm an elitist for not wanting to carry a tank through Sirensong with ilvl 200 gear, I'll wear the title with pride.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingMeteo
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11-12-2017, 05:24 AMInkstainedGwyn
There shouldn't be an excuse. Almost all the levelling quests that you have to do before the quests give gear. If you're levelling a second class and picked something for another class when doing the quests, then you should already know the importance of gear. You can buy basic gear from vendors without too much gil output. If you're brand-new, having used a level jump potion gives you shire gear. If you don't want to buy of-level gear for a secondary class, go into pvp or potd where gear doesn't matter, or level through leves and something that doesn't cause you to inconvenience other people.
There's no reason not to start out with a simple reminder. "Hey, I noticed your gear is really low level. I just wanted to point that out, since you won't really be able to do much in here with that." Maybe it was a mistake and they were switching around gear; everybody makes them. If they don't fix it, kick them. At that point, they're rude or they're trolling.
However, I agree too that there should be a min ilvl. It doesn't have to be as stringent as the higher stuff. At a certain level, though, even DPS can't survive some of the scripted AOE attacks that some bosses put out without somewhat-decent gear; when you're 6-10k short on HP, you'll drop on some of those attacks. -
11-12-2017, 05:47 AMSilver-Strider
Honestly, making some dungeons require an ilvl should be enforced. It makes no sense that the last dungeon in HW requires i240 but Sirensong Sea can be entered at a much lower ilvl.
While the worst I've ever dealt with personally were the i260 tanks with STR accessories in Doma Castle at SB launch, it really should be a universal thing since we get showered in gear at every stage of the game now. -
11-12-2017, 06:04 AMNocturniaUzuki
Here is the net-all solution to the problem:
Do the dungeon regardless.
If you have a tank who can't tank 2 mobs, just run as if you have no tank.
If you have a healer who can't heal, just run as if you have no healer.
It can almost always be done. Now if you have neither a tank nor a healer who, and only two DPS, things get significantly harder. Beyond what a random DF queue can likely pull off. And frankly it would virtually require two ranged DPS. -
11-12-2017, 06:06 AMNocturniaUzuki
Though I should add that I have no problem with a minimum requirement on dungeons, so long as they don't make it faceroll high.
Honestly though, I've never had this issue. People leaving, yes. But a player with Lv50 gear in a Lv70 dungeon, etc, never. -
11-12-2017, 06:11 AMValkyrie_LennethThats because there are ilvl requirements on lvl 70 dungeons. They are talking about leveling dungeons, which have no such requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki