This is just a gush about how much I love RDM.
I just ran a Shinryu story trial roulette with a bunch of new people who went through the typical learning curve with lots of death and mayhem. I have never been so glad to main Red Mage than during that run.
I was able to single-handed raise everyone who died, often times several back to back, supply the healers with extra mp, never run out of mp myself, and still come out on top in dps.
I have nothing but pure love for this class. Thanks SE for making it!
RAVE: RDM are amazing rezzing, dps, and support machines
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10-29-2017, 05:17 PMMhaericRAVE: RDM are amazing rezzing, dps, and support machines
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10-29-2017, 11:12 PMSuperNoob
There be a nerfed sometimes later... enjoy while it last...
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10-29-2017, 11:14 PMLelila38The sooner the better. Gets annoying having such ridiculously overpowered jobs in the game all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNoob
SE should get a grip on their class balancing. -
10-29-2017, 11:23 PMLlugen
Glad that you're enjoying Rez Dispenser (tm), but if you peruse some of the other active threads you'll find that it's actually a little undertuned damage-wise, and Devotion + Radiant Shield has crept up on Embolden. Certainly not saying that it isn't strong, but probably doesn't need a nerf at this point
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10-29-2017, 11:25 PMDarkkosRdm are second to last Dps just on top of Bard.... So no , we wont get a nerf because we are a support caster job just like Bard is a support physical job. But since we give way less support than Brd (And lets be honest, Embolden is far from being as good as Brd support skills and even its nothing compared to Dragon Littany) And we are FAR from being top caster dps (Look at logs, Blm and Smn surpass us by a good 1k dps and Smn is a really good support too and people are starting to want Smn and no Rdm because the Smn support are better)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNoob
Rdm is just the easiest job to play so its easy to get really high dps compared to other jobs where a single mistake cut your dps so bad. -
10-29-2017, 11:32 PMBorisDaBlade
Congratulations on being in a trash party? Top dps while covering for garbage healers and wasting dps uptime with dual cast rezzes. Most likely you were top dps because the other dps were floor tanking. But hey, sometimes we gotta feel relevant, right?
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10-29-2017, 11:39 PMLelila38
I'd really like them to make embolden useful for all dps, not just the physical.
It would make for interesting party comps, getting double casters viable. There's no sense in embolden only buffing physical dps and magical just for the caster...why even? -
10-29-2017, 11:46 PMpopotaroGlad you love your class :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhaeric
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10-30-2017, 03:47 AMHyristSo?Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade
I mean, I'm going to speak honestly. I'd rather the experience of saving a party, managing 'top' DPS and being literally the carry that took a problematic group to a clear, than deal with fights that judge passing purely off of what class is best in a DPS check, and get criticized for not being the best.
Then again, I'm odd. I don't like rotation-to-perfection based game-play all the time, which is why I take frequent breaks from FFXIV's PvE game. I like a little bit of chaos in my gameplay. I like the figuring things out on the spot and adapting to the unknown. And Red Mage, has the tools of the trade to wade through all that. Which is why I love the job - and love patches when content is new, or when things are randomized.
I particularly dislike the over-reliance on pattern-based memorization. (It's fine to an extent, they just waaay overdo it.)
So yeah, for the adapting to new or unexpected circumstances? Red Mage is the job for me. I get what the OP is feeling. I don't care if it doesn't chart as high as the other DPS overall - so long as it can do the job. -
10-30-2017, 04:38 AMJohnnyDevoYou know what makes it even worse? Embolden doesn't even buff the red mage's own ogcd nukes. Which means there's not even any depth in lining up cooldowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lelila38
EDIT: also, Red mage is not overpowered. -
10-30-2017, 09:05 AMCulfinrandir
Red Mages can give MP to healers? I did not know that, probably because I've never had it happen! You sound like a good player & I commend you for it.
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10-30-2017, 01:20 PMSunakoAll casters can. That is role action called mana shiftQuote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
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10-30-2017, 08:16 PMCulfinrandirThat makes it even more depressing to know that I've never seen it used! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunako
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10-30-2017, 09:39 PMPoweyou'll have to promise me exclusive first rezzing rights to get my mp ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
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10-30-2017, 09:53 PMDualgunnerOh damn we're beating bard now. Time to get the nerf hammer out.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo
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10-30-2017, 10:17 PMClaire_PendragonYes, the 2 oGCDs are physical.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo
But id still save manification for embolden when able, due to trying to get in another set of WS/flare/holy in.
(depends on encounter though.)
You probably didnt notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
I'd say roughly 50% of healers dont notice when i do it, mostly because they werent low when i did it.
to put it on CD as soon as possible, I wait till they're roughly at 70% of thier MP, and then pop it. (Rather than wait till a healer is at 30% or lower)
They just assume they arent going through much MP.
But when Im with other casters, id say more than half of them also mana shift, and i have to watch that we dont mana shift the healers at the same time. (which happens enough that i worry about it) -
10-30-2017, 10:42 PMsilverlunarfox
RAVE: So are Summoners.
I was saving a 24 man raid this weekend since healers like being floor wax. -
10-30-2017, 11:28 PMSingularityI'm aware that this post is not serious, but I would argue that we should be looking closer to optimal play if we intend to gauge a job's potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
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10-30-2017, 11:35 PMDualgunnerLET ME DREAM DAMN YOUQuote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
There's so much about RDM that I love. It's the closest to a spellblade archetype I think we'll get. I love the spell animations. I love the air of confidence it has in them. I love feeling like a destructive force on the battlefield.
I like having a rez and a heal; I just hate that our worth is based on our rez and not our damage. I wouldn't be at all perturbed if they dropped verraise off the dualcast and gave us potency buffs all around. -
10-30-2017, 11:39 PMDualgunner
At this point I acknowledge I'm just being whiny. It does suck though to have a job so incredibly close to what I want it to be. So close and yet so far.
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10-31-2017, 01:17 AMMauvaisOeil
Easy fix : Increase the MP Cost.
If the RDM is hindered by having to raise more than one player per minute (as a SMN using swiftcast would be doing) be lacking enough MP to DPS, even with Lucid dream, It will be fixed by itself. -
10-31-2017, 08:04 PMwinsock
I think rdm support is a bit over the top, same with PLD clemency. Veraise, vercure and clemency are extremely good in bad groups. IMO, it's reasonable that these groups experience more deaths and slower raises.
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11-02-2017, 09:39 PMMaero
I would not say over the top as with it's high support comes the cost of damage which we all know Red is currently on the lower end :(
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11-02-2017, 11:40 PMLambdafishRead: ONE aspect of the job is not overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo
It has a massive amount of raid utility to the point where on a statistical level it is probably mandatory for progression, that is why it is overpowered. Actually, thats the wrong word, RDM is UNBALANCED, it is mandatory for progression and useless in anything higher than that, and that is not good design. It needs to be nerfed in a way that increases its damage and decreases its healing potential.
I like the suggestion about raising the cost of verraise, but I would balance that against an increase in damage utility, maybe an extra effect that gives int down or (more likely) just SEs blanket potency buffs.
We have to remember that RDM is a DPS, so its toolkit should not have the healing potential that it currently does. -
11-03-2017, 01:01 AMClaire_Pendragon
It's not really "For progress" if u rezz ppl up, and they still arent learning to do the mechanic properly.
After u rez up, ur whole rotation is going to be out of sync from what ur trying to memorize. (For the DPS u raised, not the RDM themselves)
Its easier to just get the part down ur having trouble with, than it is to keep going and mess up on more mechanics.
Also, having 2nd lowest DPS, w/o the utility of a MCH or BRD isn't that great.
RDMs strength relies solely on just being easy to execute the rotation, with slight help in utility.
You're MP isnt going to really allow more than 3 raises, and u should be giving ur MP to the healer or BRD/MCH with mana shift.
If you have the MP to keep raising past that, then someone is doing something wrong, or hasnt been manashifting. -
11-03-2017, 03:30 AMTzainOr we need to take the 'support role' designed classes and make them official. Honestly, the entire 'DPS Role' needs to just go away as a concept across the entire genre, so much time and potential is being wasted on keeping the idea on life support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
It's like watching a slow motion car crash. -
11-03-2017, 03:46 AMzuzu-bq
Their support is weaker than physical ranged. Their damage is the worst of the whole game. They're really good at raising people I guess.
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11-03-2017, 05:24 PMLambdafishThat would take a complete infrastructure revamp and a change to the core design of the game. I wouldn't mind it, however it is not as simple as "make a support role". Either way, my statement is still correct that in the current state of the game, RDM is a DPS, that is what SE has chosen for it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzain
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11-03-2017, 10:19 PMDarkkos
Those who said that rdm is useless other than progression party have obviously never seen how much godly rdm is in solo healing situation... So its extremely good in progression group and its the best support for solo healing raids.. Sure your dps with be quite low in these situation but you'll still do around 3k which is better than a 2nd healer AND you will have a 5th dps...
Useless later on? I doubt it. -
11-03-2017, 11:42 PMClaire_PendragonThis is what I was thinking, as my raid group decided to try a solo heal run, and for some reason ppl were dieing on O1S, so I was thinking of making it my priority to rez, as we had double physical ranged DPS for keeping MP up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkkos
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11-03-2017, 11:56 PMLambdafishThis is a fair point, and is an additional concern for the balance of RDMs healing utility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkkos
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11-04-2017, 12:16 AMTelosNox
RDM has too low dps for the minimum of support it has.
Vercure is not relevant in Raidcontent
Verraise: No top RDM wants to raise 2-3times in a row because mana is an issue (RDM already NEEDS lucid dreaming to do dps, without RDM get's oom after 6 minutes).
Embolden is one of the (or maybe THE) weakest raidbuff overall.
The only really impressive on RDM is it has high burst. It does a lot of burst dps at beginning of the fight when CDs are all ready.
And RDM can "burst" raise. But: Do 3 Raise and you will go OOM. Do 3 Raise with a SMN and there is no Problem at all. -
11-04-2017, 12:58 AMDarkkosHmmm you dont need to use lucid dreaming at all in any of the omega savage if you dont raise . Maybe you're having issues because you dont use your melee combo asap and manafication when needed . Hell, even when mana shifting every time its up I never go oom...Quote:
Originally Posted by TelosNox
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11-04-2017, 01:22 AMClaire_PendragonHe might not have a BRD/MCH, as that alone makes a huge difference when i joined pugged savage groups, and theres no BRD/MCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkkos
Manashifting was a bigger drain on MP, and rezzing became far riskier. -
11-04-2017, 01:41 AMZojhaAnd what does that even change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzain
Let's assume we assign RDM the "support role". Are they any more or less useful to a group over it? No. Gameplay hasn't changed. The label is different, but the benefit they bring to a group is still the same and all the implications that come with it as well.
But let's go a step further, embrace the support role and shower RDM with group buffs and utility. IF you keep the job balanced, that will come at increasing cost to the job's other capabilities - DPS, Healing Power, Survivability, the strength of already existing buffs, Mana costs etc etc. The overall raid DPS they contribute wouldn't change and since verraise and vercure still exist, they still cut into the power budget and decrease the raid DPS they bring, making other jobs more favorable for the exact same reasons as now. And any further defensive utility you add would only exacerbate the issue, as that cuts into the overall power budget just like raise/cure do now.
The end goal of each encounter is to reduce a health bar to 0, hence why damage is of supreme importance over anything else. Mitigation, Healing, Raises, support spells, all of them are only as valuable as they help reaching the end. Tanks and healers thus are innately useless, because mitigating/undoing damage doesn't get you any closer to your goal, they are artificially given use by making enemies deal truckloads of damage you cannot avoid and cannot endure without these specific roles, which greatly reduces the amount of damage you can deal in an encounter without them (dead people do no damage after all). However, the usefulness of their core role is capped at these demands you artificially put up and thus their entire optimization process revolves around reducing core activities for more damage.
Supportive abilities are measured by the same standard and any support role you conjure as well. Defensive support abilities matter insofar as that they increase group DPS or enable tanks/healers to deal with the set demands when they otherwise couldn't and both tanks and healers are so broken already that they can not only deal with any demands easily, they can spend ample time just DPSing on top, which means defensive utility only gets its value from the increased DPS it allows by reducing the amount of healing casts needed - that's highly negligible. Hence why Monks in HW didn't even count improved Mantra for utility.
And this is also what another poster here already picked up on - Solo healing. The argument was that by putting a RDM into the second healer spot, you can get more overall DPS into the group while still meeting the set content demands for tanking/healing. That's why it can be useful. Now go and take a look back above - It's always the same procedure, minimize the useless but necessary tanking/healing and maximize the group DPS. Solo tanking also exists in content that allows it for the same reason.
Roles and their labels are ultimately entirely irrelevant. Your support role would just be subjected to the same procedure. And in that regard, I have to concur - there is no point in having a dedicated "DPS role". Every role is ultimately a DPS role. -
11-04-2017, 03:09 AMTelosNoxI use melee combo as often as possible and in my last O3s I reached 96%, so I already do near maximum possible dps (my grear is not best yet and I don't use best food and I don't use any pots). So: No it is not the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkkos
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/7qdw1...=25&spell=1001
See here how mana goes straight down to 50% in 3minutes. So after 6min I would be OOM without Bard or Lucid Dreaming (no raise, no mana shift).
I have a Bard in my group but mana comes late there and only 2 times in the complete fight.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/htxQV...e=6&spell=1001
If that is you, then you drain your mana even faster than me. Without lucid or Bard you would be OOM too. And you used no manashift at all. -
11-04-2017, 03:21 AMzuzu-bq
Devs themselves said they already abandoned the idea of designing the "support" role long ago.