Suggestion for 5.0 launch

4.0 launch had the same issue of 3.0, you'd spend a few days doing story, a few days doing roulettes for tome gear, level a couple alts you care about, then sit there doing nothing but once a day expert / leveling waiting for normal mode raid, which you get the drops of in one day, then sit there doing nothing the rest of the 6 days waiting for weekly lockout, two weeks later of playing only a few hours a day savage is implemented, but for most statics savage is just a few hours a week, outside those few hours (and for those who don't raid) there's nothing until 4.1, which at that point is like 2.5-3 months away.

2.5 to 3 months of a few hours a week of raid and 15 mins of expert (no other roulette is worth doing, only leveling if you're leveling something)

The suggestion: I would really really really like if instead of delaying relic weapons for 6-9 months they would be released along with savage, 4 weeks after launch (in 5.05), this game is seriously lacking things to do after savage is implemented. Out of the current content, not everyone wants to level jobs they don't care about, and lost canals is terrible in that it takes way too long to go through the maps + canal portals combined of an entire party, and on top of it is very unrewarding.

I never understood the choice of delaying the relic weapon when so far that has been one of the main contents that keeps many people playing for longer.

That's one timeline.... I've had plenty to do, I haven't even finished the story and I've been playing for months. Stop rushing through the game maybe? Go out and play other games? Or do everything this game has to offer?

If you want to be able to play the game 24/7 you can't expect to be doing endgame things the whole time. The content is there, go level all the jobs. Collect all the cards, minions, mounts. Become a master crafter, go get every achievement in the game. There is lots to do. Just because the content that you want to do is not released yet does not mean there is nothing in game to do.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I never understood the choice of delaying the relic weapon when so far that has been one of the main contents that keeps many people playing for longer.

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You answered your own question. Why don't they release it immediately? Because you'd be done with that just as quickly as the other things and then it'd be "Why isn't there anything to do!?" By doling out things to do slowly they can keep us strung along for far longer than just releasing everything at the same time and watching the userbase gorge on all the content and leave till the next expansion. That and I'm sure there's some limitations on resources to conceptualize, code and implement the quests and items.

I completely agree. I don't even mind waiting longer for 5.0 if it means they will give us more content on the day of the expansion. The pacing is honestly so bad and leaves you doing nothing for a good portion of the time because they space patches terribly. Some people will continue to sub and patiently wait ..but others just get too burnt out waiting and don't resub until next big patch.

Like I don't even know if I'm going to be doing the relic once they release. What is the point? If you've been raiding since release of omega you probably have a i245 weapon by now. If it was released at the start of expansion maybe my feelings would be different.

if you release relic right away there's nothing gear wise to separate raiders from casuals. that won't go over well.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if you release relic right away there's nothing gear wise to separate raiders from casuals. that won't go over well.

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They could just make the relic step end at like 5 or 10 item levels below the final tier weapon. If they make the step a big PITA they could honestly justify it easily.
Now if they introduce relic and it's slightly more annoying than it has to be, I would probably just wait until the steps were nerfed. There's a timing for everything and I think square missed it on this one.

I agree..the relic shouldve been here by end of july or in august. They really don't gain anything by giving the smallest portion of the population (savage raiders) the best weapon for 3-5 months. I hope they listen to this since they have a lot of time to change it for next time.

I don't really see how releasing relic at 5.0 or 5.5 is as a bad thing. If anything, it'll add a proper "end game" activity, something quite a few players feel we currently lack.

I'm not sure what is meant by it not ending well if raiders and casuals are both on the same footing weaponwise? If it's status, then the 5.0 raids need to use the gear itself to let them outpace casuals.

I was hoping they release relic sooner a lot of us already got a 345 weapon from the raid. I liked 2.0 launch where relics were available from the start and we used them for progression in coil.

I'm just sitting here wondering how anyone has nothing to do in this game. I still have a huge list of things to do, and at launch, was still scrambling to get things done. How much do you guys skip over story and consume energy drinks to burn though content so quickly?

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

That's one timeline.... I've had plenty to do, I haven't even finished the story and I've been playing for months. Stop rushing through the game maybe? Go out and play other games? Or do everything this game has to offer?

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I work and still had time to finish the story, clear O4S, cap all gatherers, cap all crafters and cap several jobs. Seems more like you don't know how to manage your time.

Take a walk through kugane or rhalgr's, check your friend list, check your fc, check your linkshells, you will see a lot less people around, you going through the story at a very slow pace doesn't mean people going faster than you are rushing.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You answered your own question. Why don't they release it immediately? Because you'd be done with that just as quickly as the other things and then it'd be "Why isn't there anything to do!?" By doling out things to do slowly they can keep us strung along for far longer than just releasing everything at the same time and watching the userbase gorge on all the content and leave till the next expansion. That and I'm sure there's some limitations on resources to conceptualize, code and implement the quests and items.

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Relic weapons usually have 1-2 months of longevity if you work on them at a normal pace, so no I wouldn't be done with it as fast as content that is designed to not last long.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm just sitting here wondering how anyone has nothing to do in this game. I still have a huge list of things to do, and at launch, was still scrambling to get things done. How much do you guys skip over story and consume energy drinks to burn though content so quickly?

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I'm wondering the opposite, how you guys go through content so slow, I only play a few hours per day after work, gaining a level takes literally 3-4 20 mins dungeon runs, expert takes 15 mins, raiding a couple hours a week, even not doing dungeons and only doing leveling roulette you'd cap several jobs by now, crafting and gathering are faster to level now than in previous expansions and it's still something you only do once and done.

No matter how much content they release, you will be done with it way before they have time to create more. That's just the type of game this is unfortunately.

Moving the relic quests to be sooner isn't really going to postpone the feelings your having much longer. Plus, toward the end of Stormblood, there will likely be a decline in subs and extended quests like the relic quests are one of the few ways to entertain the playerbase while you finish up the new expansion.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I'm wondering the opposite, how you guys go through content so slow, I only play a few hours per day after work, gaining a level takes literally 3-4 20 mins dungeon runs, expert takes 15 mins, raiding a couple hours a week, even not doing dungeons and only doing leveling roulette you'd cap several jobs by now, crafting and gathering are faster to level now than in previous expansions and it's still something you only do once and done.

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It's all about goals I guess. The game lasts longer when your singular goal is not "capping all the things". Some people take the time to really absorb the story, talk to NPCs, take a break to hop on another job, stop and do a FATE even though its not the best way to gain exp, do some seasonal event, play with glamour options, go find a new minion...

That's my best guess for why there's a large gap between those who are bored and those who have plenty still to do. Not all players are laser focused on completion of very specific (usually end game) goals. A lot of players like to explore and the endgame gear treadmill isn't really their full time thing.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I'm just sitting here wondering how anyone has nothing to do in this game.

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Let me enlighten you:
When people say "There is nothing to do", they mean:"There is nothing to do that I find enjoyable".

If you enjoy grinding, you can always get more Relics, you can make well over 20 of them and each one will occupy you for at the very least a week. If you enjoy mindless grinding, you can level a gatherer or three. You can make it a point to wait for the ideal conditions of the ARR sightseeing log or complete the fishing log. You can gather all triple triad cards and spam leves to work on the High Roller and Honest Gillionaire titles. There's also Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage) on min iLvL and you might not have a perfect pedigree racing chocobo yet either.

It's not like there's nothing to do, it's just that many of the things there are to do are about as enjoyable as watching paint dry with a cheese grater running down your spine. And that's why people say:"There is nothing (fun) to do."

I perfectly understand people who decide to take their time doing content, all I'm saying is that it's not something you'd expect out of the majority, consuming content at a "normal" pace just playing a few hours per day you're gonna hit a wall no matter what, and forcing yourself to go snail speed isn't a good solution.

I'm not asking for a lot of content, just to have the relic be a higher priority so we can start working on it during that awfully long downtime. If you look at the way anima was implemented it had 3 steps that could have been split, adding the first two in 3.05 and the third in 3.15 instead of all three steps in 3.15

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I'm wondering the opposite, how you guys go through content so slow, I only play a few hours per day after work, gaining a level takes literally 3-4 20 mins dungeon runs, expert takes 15 mins, raiding a couple hours a week, even not doing dungeons and only doing leveling roulette you'd cap several jobs by now, crafting and gathering are faster to level now than in previous expansions and it's still something you only do once and done.

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inb4 have you collected every single minion in the game?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I work and still had time to finish the story, clear O4S, cap all gatherers, cap all crafters and cap several jobs. Seems more like you don't know how to manage your time.

Take a walk through kugane or rhalgr's, check your friend list, check your fc, check your linkshells, you will see a lot less people around, you going through the story at a very slow pace doesn't mean people going faster than you are rushing.

I'm wondering the opposite, how you guys go through content so slow, I only play a few hours per day after work, gaining a level takes literally 3-4 20 mins dungeon runs, expert takes 15 mins, raiding a couple hours a week, even not doing dungeons and only doing leveling roulette you'd cap several jobs by now, crafting and gathering are faster to level now than in previous expansions and it's still something you only do once and done.

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You say I don't know how to manage my time... But I'm not the one who is posing about having nothing to do in game... Again, don't rush through content. If you know that patches are going to take months, go play other games. Tons of new games have been released this year, I took time away from this one to enjoy those. You can easily spend 1 or 2 days accomplishing your goals with this one then try out some other games for the rest of the week. If you don't want to do that, like I said there are tons of in game thing to do, I doubt you have competed everything...

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Snip.

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Because we're not spending our game time solely forcussed on level and gear progression. That seems to be the trend between casual and hardcore players, I think. We take our time goofing off with silly side things.

The past few game sessions included me trying to solo ARR EX primals for the fun of it. I'm trying to grind MGP to finally get all the minions there, and God help me, I'm trying to learn Verminion to get that Penguin Prince and Shalloweye minion. At least Triple Triad is easy!

Also, I've been working the challenge log to rotate out some of my Adventurer Squadron (I want all Lalas!), Wondrous Tails, hunting for Centurio seals, and more.

I don't usually run dugeons beyond a couple roulettes for tomes, and I'm simply not interested in leveling all my jobs since it feels like a huge waste of time to grind a stuff that I'll never play.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I'm wondering the opposite, how you guys go through content so slow, I only play a few hours per day after work, gaining a level takes literally 3-4 20 mins dungeon runs, expert takes 15 mins, raiding a couple hours a week, even not doing dungeons and only doing leveling roulette you'd cap several jobs by now, crafting and gathering are faster to level now than in previous expansions and it's still something you only do once and done.

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The fact you refer to your dungeon and levels in terms of quantifiable numbers tells me a lot about how you play VS how I play. I'm queue'd for dungeons for.. I don't know how long and while I am I'm running hunt marks and beast tribe quests to level other jobs. I get to play maybe 2 hours a day. I was done with the expansions actual story in a few weeks (I did delay finishing MSQ a little by stopping when my DRG hit 70 and waiting till I got my DRK to 69 to continue with it so I could use the Xp from the story quests and side quests).

Since then I've leveled SMN(SCH), MCH, RDM, and now doing SAM . Leveled BTN and MIN to 70. Still haven't run out of things to do. I'm capped out for gear for my DRG but that's not what I consider the end.

Just so you have an idea of how the other half lives.

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Originally Posted by Junseikei

I'm just sitting here wondering how anyone has nothing to do in this game. I still have a huge list of things to do, and at launch, was still scrambling to get things done. How much do you guys skip over story and consume energy drinks to burn though content so quickly?

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See below

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Let me enlighten you:
When people say "There is nothing to do", they mean:"There is nothing to do that I find enjoyable".

If you enjoy grinding, you can always get more Relics, you can make well over 20 of them and each one will occupy you for at the very least a week. If you enjoy mindless grinding, you can level a gatherer or three. You can make it a point to wait for the ideal conditions of the ARR sightseeing log or complete the fishing log. You can gather all triple triad cards and spam leves to work on the High Roller and Honest Gillionaire titles. There's also Second Coil of Bahamut (Savage) on min iLvL and you might not have a perfect pedigree racing chocobo yet either.

It's not like there's nothing to do, it's just that many of the things there are to do are about as enjoyable as watching paint dry with a cheese grater running down your spine. And that's why people say:"There is nothing (fun) to do."

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At least you are saying what that group of people really mean.

If I don't like raiding or pvp and two portions of released content is that then that applies. I do enjoy grinding when the challenge is somewhat comparable to my character's progress. Here I either just play when something I do like comes out and play other games when there is nothing. Or continue playing this for long durations and add pain to my experience wondering why the game doesn't do exactly what I like.

Maybe a solution is to give feedback on how to make relic, crafting/gathering, logs, gold saucer, and other content more fun. I am sure opinions would vary and that content may improve or get worse with feedback. But even if that other stuff becomes more fun, some people will not like certain types of content regardless of what get's done to it.

Personally, I would want each style of content to have different avenues of progression just as the combat game gets. And of course fun would have to be part of that. I fall in that category of combat centric stuff. But I would like to forage into that other side but it needs some variation too. If all I have to look forward to is grinding nodes/items, guildleves, and scrips, it doesn't encourage me to want to progress much unless I am crafter centric, it is just a barrier to the end or the big money.

DOW/DOM:
Logs
Job quest
MSQ
Fates
Dungeons
Raids
Hunts
Company progress
Guildleves
Trials
Exploratory content
Relics
Squadron content
PvP

DOH/DOL
Logs
Job quest
MSQ
Fates
Dungeons
Raids
Hunts
Company progress
Guildleves
Trials
Exploratory content
relics
squadron content
PvP

I don't really think that it's so much the lack of things to do, it's more that there's a longer gap between patches from the initial expansion release up until the first patch. Surely everyone remembers the 5 month gap between 3.0 and 3.1 which pretty much killed all momentum the expansion launch had? 4.0 to 4.1 feels pretty long too, even though in reality it's only 4 months, slightly longer than the usual gap between patches. But it only feels longer because the amount of things to do at Lv. 70 is currently pretty barebones, and thinking everyone wants to go level every job and pointing to that as 'SEE? THERE'S LOTS MORE TO DO' is a dangerous thing to assume from a community and a design standpoint. (For one, if people ACTUALLY did that, have fun with the DPS queues being even worse in theory.)

Probably the biggest irony is that while there's more content for raiders in theory, the way vertical progression works in this game is that raiders actually have less incentive to stay subbed late during the usual 6-7 month gearing cycle (since they'll gear up at an astronomically faster rate than non-raiders do), especially if they happen to clear the raid tier earlier. I'm not hardcore by any means (I still haven't cleared O4S), but I'm already item level 339 - and I spent half of the patch without a static. This is contrasted to the fact that I spent much of 3.x avoiding Savage up until 3.4, where I pretty much never finished gearing up until the next gearing cycle was released. And no, arguing that such people should gear alternate classes is arguing for content that doesn't exist, and encouraging bloat for no real reason at all.

To me personally, my biggest criticism of the 4.0 launch was that it was released without Alliance roulette. I enjoy the 24-man raids more than anything else in this game, but now we're in a 3 month lull where nobody is running them because at this point, the only reward in doing so is glamour. Even if you want to run them now, they pretty much never pop. I'm also a bit miffed that their sole reason for existing even when they're the hot new content of the patch is only to act as catch-up content for gearing.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

You say I don't know how to manage my time... But I'm not the one who is posing about having nothing to do in game... Again, don't rush through content. If you know that patches are going to take months, go play other games. Tons of new games have been released this year, I took time away from this one to enjoy those. You can easily spend 1 or 2 days accomplishing your goals with this one then try out some other games for the rest of the week. If you don't want to do that, like I said there are tons of in game thing to do, I doubt you have competed everything...

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Your solution to the game having a lack of content is to 'go play other games'? You don't 'need 1 - 2' days to accomplish weekly goals in this game. It's more 45m-1.5hrs. Then you're done for the week for raiders. Hence no content.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Your solution to the game having a lack of content is to 'go play other games'? You don't 'need 1 - 2' days to accomplish weekly goals in this game. It's more 45m-1.5hrs. Then you're done for the week for raiders. Hence no content.

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On one hand, it's nice that for once, we have a game that isn't an endless Korean-style MMO grind and the devs actively encourage players to take a break and enjoy other games to avoid burnout, and people with IRL obligations can pretty much play at the same pace as the most hardcore of players.

The problem lies in assuming that everyone actually wants to take such breaks, or can even find anything enjoyable to take such breaks with, especially if you want to continue playing with your friends from FFXIV. There was a recent push within my circle of friends to get everyone to play PUBG while waiting for 3.1, but it fell apart because not everyone (especially me) has any interest in shooters.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

You say I don't know how to manage my time... But I'm not the one who is posing about having nothing to do in game... Again, don't rush through content. If you know that patches are going to take months, go play other games. Tons of new games have been released this year, I took time away from this one to enjoy those. You can easily spend 1 or 2 days accomplishing your goals with this one then try out some other games for the rest of the week. If you don't want to do that, like I said there are tons of in game thing to do, I doubt you have competed everything...

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Maybe the only game people enjoy is XIV, have you ever thought of that? Sorry we are looking for more ways to extend our time in the game we enjoy playing. There should be things to keep people playing and have long term rewards and goals. But sadly this games philosophy is to just stop when you feel like theres nothing left to do and go play something else. Thats a horrible design and should change, not an overnight change but looking to the future something should be done.

I enjoy many console games but when it comes to MMOs only XIV can do it for me, (even if I do not agree with some of the design choices). But this whole please go play something else or you rushed through content and are burnt out crap needs to stop.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

That's one timeline.... I've had plenty to do, I haven't even finished the story and I've been playing for months. Stop rushing through the game maybe? Go out and play other games? Or do everything this game has to offer?

If you want to be able to play the game 24/7 you can't expect to be doing endgame things the whole time. The content is there, go level all the jobs. Collect all the cards, minions, mounts. Become a master crafter, go get every achievement in the game. There is lots to do. Just because the content that you want to do is not released yet does not mean there is nothing in game to do.

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Wait, then what are you doing when you log in? My boyfriend has full time university and part time jobs and still managed to finish all of SB in a week or so. He has full raid gear and leveled everything to 70. Is he just way good at time management or what? I am seriously asking btw, not trying to be sarcastic..I am legitimately curious what people are doing when he has so little time yet finished everything so quickly. o.O He also read every single quest and does not skip anything either.

In no way, shape or form did he rush ANYTHING. He took his time, reading everything, paying attention to detail and played through stormblood with me, it was a blast. We also play other games, travel and do tons of stuff IRL so..I don't think its very good for an MMO to follow the same formula and run out of things to do so quickly, delay the relic quests and they need to produce content with longevity.

I agree with OP, there needs to be more to do then the SAME old formula for YEARS now.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Wait, then what are you doing when you log in? My boyfriend has full time university and part time jobs and still managed to finish all of SB in a week or so. He has full raid gear and leveled everything to 70. Is he just way good at time management or what? I am seriously asking btw, not trying to be sarcastic..I am legitimately curious what people are doing when he has so little time yet finished everything so quickly. o.O He also read every single quest and does not skip anything either.

In no way, shape or form did he rush ANYTHING. He took his time, reading everything, paying attention to detail and played through stormblood with me, it was a blast. We also play other games, travel and do tons of stuff IRL so..I don't think its very good for an MMO to follow the same formula and run out of things to do so quickly, delay the relic quests and they need to produce content with longevity.

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I only do story content one day a week, I'm to tired after work to enjoy the story if I log in at all. I do roulettes to level up other classes, I will have 5 or 6 jobs at 70 when I finish the story.

If you think I'm weird for that, go ahead, I'm sure everyone else does as well. Back in ARR I leveled every class to lvl 30 before I continued the story. I had completely stopped playing for 6 months before storm blood launched as well, because Final Fantasy 15, World of Final Fantasy, and Zelds Breath of the Wild needed to be played. And because of the cluster F that was the stormblood launch I didn't even start playing story for a while and finished those games.

I've no idea how anyone can get through the story in a few days or even a week, unless all they do is play 14 non stop every single day. I should be caught up with everything by the time 4.1 is out, I will do all the fancy new stuff along with everyone else... But I won't feel like I've run out of things to do.

If all I wanted to do was play this game everyday I will max out every class, get every single relic, minion, mount, card, housing item, achievement that can be had. If this game is my life there is plenty to do. it's not tho, I have other interests, I'm glad I don't have to sacrifice my soul to play this game. If all you want to play is the endgame, play what's available, then go live your life... What did you do before his game existed? Go do that!

I don't think the game needs more mindlessly grindy content either. You want relic in the game, but unless it's created differently, all it will be is go replay the same content until your sick of it. I wish it could have more unique and original content, but I know game development takes time. So I can wait and do other things or play what is here now and be thankful I have that.

My suggestion for 5.0's launch is that they have an expansion beta prior to the expac launch in order to allow people to try out the new jobs at Max Level and the new skills / battle systems if they change any for the existing jobs.

I feel the dev team has to spend SO MUCH TIME fixing jobs when they could be working on Patch content instead because the Jobs inadvertently come out unbalanced due to lack of playerbase input. If they did a couple beta weekends where people could play around with the jobs at max level and how they play, I think it'd really help streamline the feedback process and get jobs into proper order ahead of time.

You can't release salvage on day 1. That means you need to release raid crafting gear on day 1 and that would cause someone having too much power economically and it is obvious SE fights that.

Threads like this have existed since mmorpgs were a thing to begin with, probably before that even. Even if you became the richest person on the planet and had your own personal development team on hand to make content specifically for you they wouldn't be able to churn out content as quick as you would be able to get through it. Sure, your wait might only be a few days instead of a few weeks but it's impossible for a developer to keep up with how quickly players get through things. People say that while there are things to do that they haven't, those very things aren't enjoyable. That is totally understandable and I feel the same about a few of the things listed (like mounts, I pretty much stick to my chocobo/susano wolf) but as others have said that content still exists as something to do even if it isn't your first choice. There is no way for you to purely play ffxiv for any amount of time and have "new" content enough to keep up with how you go through it, especially if you only like to do certain things. The only way that this would possibly work would be for them to make content that is otherwise literally impossible to complete unless a certain amount of time has passed and nobody really likes content that's hard gated like that.

"Play another game" may leave a bad taste in people's mouths but that's the only realistic way to keep yourself busy if you eat through content too quickly and don't desire to do any alt classes or the number of other things you can do in the game. The devs can't keep up with you in particular no matter how much we wish it was the case. This stuff doesn't manifest out of thin air, it takes multiple teams working on different parts of it to turn each piece of content out. At best, in terms of getting content out quicker they could opt for quantity over quality but then people would complain about that instead of having to wait. There's no real way to please everyone and people who zoom in on one area of content can't hope to have something new to do every time they finish something.

yoship says himself go play other games then come back. and they'll never do a beta with new job skills or show off higher level stuff before official release dates. they want to keep that stuff secret.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

yoship says himself go play other games then come back. and they'll never do a beta with new job skills or show off higher level stuff before official release dates. they want to keep that stuff secret.

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Neither of those things are healthy for a MMO - SE can obviously not balance without the player base, why not get their free help.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

and they'll never do a beta with new job skills or show off higher level stuff before official release dates. they want to keep that stuff secret.

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They don't need to have a test server, they could just get beta-testers instead.
I remember hearing that what Blizzard does to test WoW raids is to get ex-raiders to test them.
I mean, if SE's afraid that a tester might leak that something isn't up to par, I don't think many players would be surprised... >w>

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

You can't release salvage on day 1. That means you need to release raid crafting gear on day 1 and that would cause someone having too much power economically and it is obvious SE fights that.

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I have no problems with savage being 4 weeks after release, I'm asking for the relic weapon to be also 4 weeks after release instead of 6 months (now delayed to 8+ months) as the relic is something a portion of the playerbase likes to slowly spend extra time on.