Question by a fledgling scholar

I recently hit 50 in ARR (no heavensward or stormblood [yet]) and the biggest challenge I've run into so far is tanks who do enormous pulls and don't seem to protect themselves for long to mitigate the damage and tanks who bulldoze past every single add trying to get to the first boss and causing a wipe that didn't need to happen.

What's the best way to deal with these types of people in a manner better than what I do now which consists of casting Eye for an Eye on them (which breaks rather easily..) to buy time for Alq and Physick/Lustrum?

I'd rather try and get the best manner down because if I try to throw out miasma or bio in the midst of it, the kit cooldown usually makes for ill-timed panic physicks to try and keep up.

Also, a fairy question: Why does Selene's Fey Wind buff feel like it has a wider area of effect than Eos' Whispering Dawn and Fey Cov/Illumination? Shouldn't her skill ranges be on par with the player's and not 75% to half?

Well firstly welcome to the Nymian ranks :3 secondly Sadly there have been an influx in such tanks of late. The best thing you can do is focus on healing and dps when you can. Politly ask them to use cooldowns if you notice that they're not and just mention that would make it easier for you to contribute to their dps output.


If they refuse then simply acquiesce to their decision and keep on healing. I know I get made fun of a lot on here for venting but politeness in the end is the best option for dealing with players who are doing something you don't agree with. If they become rude in spite of your composure then simply bow out and leave. you have every right to be treated with respect and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

As for Fey Wind I think it does have a wider aoe mainly because its a damage buff instead of a healing regen. Oh and asmall tip. be sure to use rouse before every cast of Whispering Dawn. It actually buffs dawn and gives you better regen.

again welcome to the community and pm me if you have any healer related questions or venting. I'll be happy to lend an ear

Unfortunately scholar's giant pull toolset is pretty limited at that level.

It's basically Adloqium before they pull, let them gather, put down your Shadowflares and DoTs, and then physick spam with Lustrate as emergency. If you're feeling comfortable and it's a particularly large pull, you can justify Sacred Soil as it's effectively a 15% mitigation cooldown which helps stagger the damage a bit more.

If things go very far south, you start alternating Adlo and Physick.

EoS is the safer bet as they bring both a HoT and a +healing magic cooldown. You can also macro the pet to chain cast its basic heal instead of waiting for the AI to kick in, but this can delay ability use as well as lock out other macros (Since macro activation cancels any ongoing macro)

Once you to get to level 62 (?) you get an ability called Excogitation that is really useful for this exact situation. Once you get used to using it on pulls like this you can give yourself much more time to DPS easily without having to worry about the tanks health (since Excogitation goes off at 50% and is extremely powerful at 800 potency).

Pre-60's, if you find yourself unable to keep up with healing don''t be afraid to spam Adloquium and Lustrate. By judging how much damage the tank is taking, you can figure out whether you'll need to supplement your Adloquium with Lustrates so you can meet healing requirements. Obviously you need to be careful with MP when using Adloquium, but any MP you have left after an encounter is generally considered \\'wasted MP\\', so don't worry about blasting through everything you have as long as it keeps the tank alive until the end of the fight. Just be aware that you can't do this at level 70, since you need the MP for Miasma II, Miasma/Bio, and Broil spam. Using

Being able to predict how long the fight will last and in which way you're going to approach healing is crucial to playing a Scholar, as it will increase your chances to deal damage which is considered a major aspect of the job. If you plan on playing a Scholar in higher level content it's important that you're able to take every opportunity to deal damage, so knowing how to create openings to maximise your DPS is what's needed to be considered a 'good' Scholar. Getting used to spotting these openings is a good skill to have if Scholar is something you wish to use in higher-end content.

Also keep in mind that at level 70 you will very rarely need to heal with Physick, so I\\'d recommend getting used to doing as much of your healing through off-cooldowns as possible (e.g Lustrate, Indomitability, Whispering Dawn, etc). Naturally, since you won't have access to abilities like Excogitation and Fey Union at your level, this isn't extremely important, but trying to reduce the amount you cast Physick to be as little as possible is a very useful to know because of the expectations people have of you as a Scholar to always be maximising DPS.

Of course, before you get these abilities I think getting used to healing with Aetherflow abilities, Fairy, and shields if the need arises is more crucial than learning about DPS openings. Lustrate is, of course, one of your key healing abilities, and knowing how and when to use it will make things much easier. Following Adloquium (or Physick if you're using it) with Lustrate can often be enough to bring the power of the two closer to what Cure Ii or Benefic II will heal. You should have Sacred Soil at your current level, but don't let it fool you. It's very rare that Sacred Soil is ever worth the Aetherflow, unless you know the entire party is going to take a large amount of damage, otherwise it's simpler and better to just use Indomitability or even Succor and Emergency Tactics if things take a turn for the worse

Also, keep in mind that the cross-class ability Largess isn't as useful to a Scholar as it is to a White Mage / Astrologian, since like I said most of your healing is done through abilities not spells, and Largess only increases the healing potency of spells cast. This doesn't mean it's not worth using, but considering how you'll be healing and adjusting your role skills accordingly can help a lot.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

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Thank you for the warm welcome, and I tend to be pretty modest when playing, so I haven't run into any "rude" behavior as of late (aside from the final raids of the main story against the ultimate weapon where I got left behind for 60% of it and died 3 times as a result), and in all fairness, I kind of struggle to manage too many skills so I leave Eos and Selene on AI to act as an "off-healer" when I do need to focus on the tank and someone else has taken a fair bit of damage.

I do all in my power to utilize 2 sets of skills (1 more support oriented, the other holding damage and the fairies + rouse) so it'd be a bad show if I were to try and work with the pet bar as well without messing up.

I will definitely keep your name in mind if I have further scholar questions fellow Nymian.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

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I've kind of avoided using macros as its a pretty foreign concept to me in all due fairness (I know they can help, but I crack under too much pressure at times to worry about trying to use it and target multiple people as needed). However, is Sacred Soil really 15%? The tooltip of it reads at a 10% mitigate (though I originally misread it as "your allies take 90% less damage" instead of it being a 10% mitigate), but I feel like I may use it a little liberally whenever the tank is taking the boss in general or when they pull all adds around them. I feel like it doesn't do much for them at times though so it makes me wonder if I just throw it down because of the casting animation for it.

I'm....well acquainted with Al + Physick spam, especially at starting scholar where it barely managed 300. But I'm honestly fairly content with how the AI handles Embrace, I'm just not a big fan that she can't target them for the full range of Physick or Alq, more along the lines of the range of Succor is what they feel like which makes my positioning questioned between being too close and too far though I avoid markers at all costs.

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Originally Posted by Connor

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I feel like I can only manage to deal sufficient dps only after throwing Alq and EFAE due to feeling like the time it takes to cast Bio II > Miasma > (when applicable) Miasma II > Bane and get back to my support bar because only then do I feel the tank can hold on long enough unless they're just taking far too much so I have to ignore damage in lieu of that pressing matter (especially because no one lasts long enough to make good use of swiftcast + resurrection to reign in the enmity).

For MP management, I tend to make extreme use of Energy Drain when I need it and Aetherflow when my gauge is empty (usually using the last one on ED for a pick me up) so it's never much of an issue unless I'm making too much use of Alq and Succor to keep someone up (worse so in apparent raids).

For Lustrate, I'm not seeing myself using it too much with the exception of a quick recovery if they hit triple digit health and for Lugstrasse(?) I use it mainly with physick, succor, and alq. I had picked up that it wouldn't affect the aetherflow abilities from lurking on the healer section at minimum, though I feel it would be nice if it did, but understand why it doesn't.

Excog sounds like an ability from another game I used to play and I would love to have it and Deployment Tactics, but that'll have to wait a fair few weeks to become a reality and I'll definitely take into consideration when I can manage it.

But as for broil and the fae meter, can you explain how those work? Is broil just a harder hitting Ruin and how exactly does the fairy gauge work as a system and what's it used for outside of aetherpact?

For ARR Sch doesn't have that many skills but you are learning our bread and butter skills so once you get these down you are set for hw until you get one or two new toys you will be using religiously. That being said, obviously if the tank is dead set on dying and will not wait for a protect, you should prolly let natural selection take its course and ask for him to slow down for a protect after he respawns. If you are feeling nice, swift cast protect. Because doing big pulls in lvl 50 dungeons is the norm you should prolly always assume the tank is going to do big pulls. Cast Adloqium on tank pre pull. Once he has established the amount of mobs he's about to take look and see if his health is 50% and under, if so lustrate before Adloqium. If things are extra spicy, lustrate, sacred soil, physick/adloqium depending on the health percentage. And if everything is on fire and going to hell, rouse eos then use whispering dawn. And if the tank has been selected for death and you want to try your best to keep him from deaths door rouse eos, fey illumination, then whispering dawn, place that sacred soil on the tank and alternate between adlo and physick like their you're only skills and hope for the best. And of course if you have eye for an eye on your tool kit toss it on him for good measure along with fey covenant as your last hurrah. But you have to remember that sometimes your tank is just slated for death and you must let them go.

Also if you use Selene during these pulls (which you can, you just need to be comfortable with sch imo) just pop sacred soil, adlo, physick as needed with her being roused. Also Selene's range are 5 yalms bigger than Eos so you are correct. Her skill is more to give attack speed so I guess the devs guessed that the bards, mch, blm, smn, and rdm who don't want to be on your radar deserve a boost too.

Three tips to make your early dungeon life a little easier:

First up, communication wins the day, a simple 'Hiya, kinda new so go easy thanks <3' or such goes a long long way, most tanks short of the occasional bot will understand something on par with that and slow things down a tad to suit.

Secondly, if you feel like you're struggling, break things down and keep it as simple as possible, eye for an eye is kind of weak right now so I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock in it anymore. Rather focus on positioning yourself well and keeping the tank upright comfortably for the initial hit of the pull, once the tank is positioned with the mobs you want to focus on gauging the incoming damage whilst moving yourself into a position where you're ready to keep up with them once they sprint off for the next pack. Once you've got a feel for how much damage is coming in, then you can start working towards that bane. Remember that whilst DPS is very delicious gravy, keeping that tank upright and the run smooth is the meat and potatoes of the run. In short: Gauge the incoming damage > Position yourself properly > start DPSing. With practice you'll get significantly faster at this process, but progress at your own pace, not anyone else's.

Lastly, sprint sprint sprint. Try to use sprint out of combat where possible, and importantly, try to synchronise it with your tank. I find that if my roulette tank never sprints, I rarely do either now. It slows me down a little perhaps, but it keeps things safe as there's literally nothing worse in 4 mans than a tank shooting off into a dangerous pull leaving you with no way to keep up or catch up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdU4tRrX984 - A decent example of how I approach a nasty pull. Whilst I'm on whm, some of the techniques such as queueing Sprint for the full 20 seconds and dotting on the hoof are also very relevant to SCH as well.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

But as for broil and the fae meter, can you explain how those work? Is broil just a harder hitting Ruin and how exactly does the fairy gauge work as a system and what\\'s it used for outside of aetherpact?

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You\\'re right, Broil is just a upgrade to Ruin.

As for the Fairy Gauge, you gain 5 points towards it every time you use any Aetherflow ability. Unfortunately, Aetherpact (executing Fey Union) is the sole purpose of the gauge in its entirety at the moment, so it\\'s not something that requires tight management like a DPS gauge. Think of it as supplementary to what you\\'re already doing; Fey Union is a useful skill, but not something that changes the way Scholar works or plays.

For MP management, the best time to use Lucid Dreaming is about 70% of your maximum MP. This gives you enough to recover a decent amount of MP, increases the chances of it being up when you get really low, and is well-supplemented with Aetherflow and Energy Drain. Using Lucid Dreaming when you're already out of MP can sometimes be counter-productive, since generally if you're low on MP the reason why you've went so low is often still present in the encounter.

In terms of dealing damage in dungeons, personally I\\'d say in most cases applying Bio / Miasma / Miasma II while the tank is pulling the mobs into position is the best time to do so as a Scholar. It means that you can focus just on healing whilst still contributing damage, which can be especially useful if you want to help the party but aren\\'t confident with the dungeon/encounter.

In my honest opinion (I know scores of people will disagree) but I don\\'t think there\\'s anything wrong with a Scholar taking time during a fight to just observe and actively considering how best to make use of Aetherflow, fairy positioning and abilities, shield applications and usage relative to current MP, planning role skill usage, etc. As a Scholar it can often feel like there\\'s a lot being expected from them, with all of that to consider on top of managing their own damage, so it\\'s easy to feel overwhelmed. I honestly think one of the best things you can do as a Scholar when it comes to planning out your healing is to simply observe.

How much damage is going out? How much is the tank taking, what proportion of their HP is it removing(e.g are they going from 100% - 75%), which enemy attacks are best dealt with through mitigation and which can be dealt with through direct healing, when is it safe to apply DoTs, when should I spam Broil, these are all nuances that identifying and creating a strategy to deal with will make healing even the largest amounts of damage seem trivial to a Scholar.

While dealing damage is of course a crucial point for all three healers, I think as long as you focus on identifying and looking out for these aspects of each fight you'll find yourself with much more time to deal damage naturally.

Lastly, be aware that even though you're the healer, the rest of the party is in control of their health too. It's rare, but there can be times where - for whatever reason- it's simply not possible to keep the tank alive.
In these situations it's easy to feel disheartened; 'the tank/DPS/co-healer died and I'm the healer, therefore it's my fault'. It's easy to fall into this kind of thinking - I know I feel that way a lot when someone dies and I'm the healer. But the rest of the party is as responsible for their well-being as you are; if the tank pulls more than they can handle, DPS are getting hit with consecutive enemy attacks, co-healer is actually a Monk who wanted a quick queue, don't blame yourself. Observing and developing a strategy to tackle healing in every fight gives Scholars a unique opportunity to watch how their party members are reacting to the fight. By the time you get to higher levels you'll have no trouble identifying what is and isn't within your limits to heal, and with enough practice you can even predict which party members are likely to require which support (shields, healing, excogitation, Chain Stratagem for DPS), even in encounters you're less familiar with.

There's nothing wrong with saying 'I'm sorry but this is too much for me', 'I appreciate that you want to speed up the dungeon, but I believe doing smaller pulls would make the run smoother', etc. Don't be afraid to let people know if they're trying to make you do something you aren't comfortable with. Don't feel like you have to force yourself into a steep learning curve just to meet the expectations of others (though this includes me too, so does that mean I've invalidated everything I just said...?)

One: welcome to the ranks of healers...

Two: my SCH is only to level 60...and i struggled a lot. A friend that's actually done SCH to 70 finds it very hard for large pulls, but he does pull through. i'm going to shoot him this forum thread so he can maybe give additional advice to what has already been said here.

E4E is essential for the SCH kit (as emergency tactics - 60 skill i believe) makes use of it (why they took it from SCH in the first place is beyond me...)

However...the big thing is: if it's too much, let the tank know (as Connor said); if a tank can't understand that you're struggling, there's an issue. I've done this on WHM (my main and Main Heals) and there are a lot of tanks that will just...pull as much as they can. So...if you Can't handle it, you need to let them know.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

Stuff

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Sorry, working on old values or mixing them up with others. Yeah, it's 10%. Muh bad.

If you see spam healing coming, use Rouse + Fey Illumination + Whispering Dawn. Even on single target it's HPS gain. Ofc wait for tank to have enmity and be sure Eos is in range.
If your mana allows it use Adlo every 1 or 2 Physics. If you don't overwrite shield, it's de facto 600 potency heal that goes to 900 on crit.
Don't just spam Lustrate. Make sure you don't overheal with it.

If it makes you feel better, at 70 SCH is (imho) the best healer for such situations thanks to Fey Union and Excogitation.

I'm taking everything read into consideration for what applies at the moment and a lot of it is really improving my approach on things (its helped my confidence in it a bit too), even though I'm still faltering a bit when it comes to tanks and their 7-15+ enemy pulls (and a few of them are dropping the pull amount a bit if it does end in a wipe for the 2nd run through the corridor).

Although the current challenge after them is sudden effects in dungeons that have no prior explanations (Doom debuffs, vulnerability stacks that end in 1 shots, things along that source), I can kinda pick those up along the way I guess, no point in asking more than I need to.

Congrats!
Your technique is alright but you might as well use Largesse
What I do while I am playing as SCH is to cast Adloquium before the tank catches aggro (this might attract aggro so stay close to the tank) once the monsters are pulled usually turn on Largesse and heal using Physick and Adloquium.
Unsure about the last question.

Tanks should not be pulling trains pre 50. Healers don't have the tools to handle them yet, especially SCH. The 50s dungeons is where the train pulls begin and some players forget or pay no mind to the capabilities of their healers.

In these cases it's important to remember that if you do nothing you will gain no enmity, and as crappy as this sounds, when you see the tank bite off more than he can chew, let him die. Your only alternative is to go down with the ship, because as soon as you do anything, the angry pack will come for you after the tank drops.

This isn't something to spite the tank, or teach him a lesson. It's looking after your own ass.

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Originally Posted by mikanana

Congrats!
Your technique is alright but you might as well use Largesse
What I do while I am playing as SCH is to cast Adloquium before the tank catches aggro (this might attract aggro so stay close to the tank) once the monsters are pulled usually turn on Largesse and heal using Physick and Adloquium.
Unsure about the last question.

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I actually tried using Largesse early on, but I didn't see too much difference in it including during Eos' Fae Illumination so I replaced it with Lucid Dreaming which I feel helped out more during heavy healing phases (mp management) and I've adopted in using Adloq before the tank runs off, which helps especially well if the heal manages to be a critical for usually 2k or more (4k shielding).

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Tanks should not be pulling trains pre 50. Healers don't have the tools to handle them yet, especially SCH. The 50s dungeons is where the train pulls begin and some players forget or pay no mind to the capabilities of their healers.

In these cases it's important to remember that if you do nothing you will gain no enmity, and as crappy as this sounds, when you see the tank bite off more than he can chew, let him die. Your only alternative is to go down with the ship, because as soon as you do anything, the angry pack will come for you after the tank drops.

This isn't something to spite the tank, or teach him a lesson. It's looking after your own ass.

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Well, it wasn't a thing that really happened until I started hitting level 32 with the goblin lair and Stone Vigil at 41 and higher, so I started feeling both annoyed and discomforted when the tank both pulled half a room (or 2 rooms) of adds (annoyed) and then had the entire group wipe shortly after because the damage was higher than my output (discomforted for the dps dying when they didn't need to).

However, would the mobs really straight ignore you if everyone else drops and your aggro is virtually zero (minus Eos and Selene because their aggro is usually higher than mine)? Usually even if I stop doing anything when the tank falls short of swiftcast + resurrect they still come for me once the dps drop in a corridor.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

I actually tried using Largesse early on, but I didn't see too much difference in it including during Eos' Fae Illumination so I replaced it with Lucid Dreaming which I feel helped out more during heavy healing phases (mp management) and I've adopted in using Adloq before the tank runs off, which helps especially well if the heal manages to be a critical for usually 2k or more (4k shielding).

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I'd suggest you use Drain every now and then for your MP, it's like really, REALLY helpful. I have never had to use Lucid dreaming on my SCH.
Largesse seems to do the trick for me when I was level 50 or so.
But what you could do for now is to enhance your gear if you haven't. as you may know SCH is kind of terrible classes atm and will get be updated in later patches...

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Originally Posted by mikanana

I'd suggest you use Drain every now and then for your MP, it's like really, REALLY helpful. I have never had to use Lucid dreaming on my SCH.
Largesse seems to do the trick for me when I was level 50 or so.
But what you could do for now is to enhance your gear if you haven't. as you may know SCH is kind of terrible classes atm and will get be updated in later patches...

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I've actually never taken drain off ever since I got it now that I think about it, so no trouble there ^_^ Though I only adapted Lucid Dreaming because I read in the healer forums that it's a "staple" for the role, though the reduction in threat generation helps too I feel.

As for gear, I have trouble sleeping at night so I had began on Ironworks very shortly after hitting 50 (is that the best or is there better before heavensward?). I have a ring, earrings, and a [bracelet?] remaining for it while picking up items for another class from story mode.

But what makes scholar such a bad class? I mean, I have noticed that I'm not able to heal 2500 on a team heal like white mage and astro, but at the same time the shields I feel have saved more despite the best heals I've recorded on it being somewhere in the 900-1k range on a critical. Eos and Selene feel helpful as well as a personal off-healer when someone drops low and the tank is still taking hits (though I still wish her Embrace range was on par with Physick and Lustrate, as well as Succor getting the same treatment, but that might be asking too much.)

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

I've actually never taken drain off ever since I got it now that I think about it, so no trouble there ^_^ Though I only adapted Lucid Dreaming because I read in the healer forums that it's a "staple" for the role, though the reduction in threat generation helps too I feel...

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If you're level 50, then yes Ironworks gear is pretty good, can take you up to level 55 or so...
It hasn't always been a bad class, a few patches before there weren't as many complaints about the class....
I guess the reason that SCH heals are low is probably because Eos was made to compensate for it, probably, at least that's how I think it is.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

However, would the mobs really straight ignore you if everyone else drops and your aggro is virtually zero (minus Eos and Selene because their aggro is usually higher than mine)? Usually even if I stop doing anything when the tank falls short of swiftcast + resurrect they still come for me once the dps drop in a corridor.

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Ever notice when fighting trash at the start and when you cast something on the tank, a list of mobs suddenly shows up on your enmity list; even the ones you have not directly attacked? Now, have you also ever noticed that sometimes not all the mobs attacking the group are on there? e.g. Three mobs are present, but only two are on your list. This is because the tank does not have agro on that third mob at the time you assisted him, and it will not show up until you attack the mob directly, or aid the person in your group its focused on. This is how enmity transfer works. If the tank has agro on all the mobs, and you help the tank in any way, every single one of them will pop up in your list. And every single one of them will come to eat your face should he fall.

What this means is if there is no enmity list on your screen, the mobs will indeed leave you alone should the party fall and assuming you are not in their agro range. However, this requires taking no action whatsoever, which is why I said it's kind of a shitty thing to do. The only reason why I have done it is because I'm experienced enough to know when the tank has doomed our group during the pull. I'm sure you've already sensed it as well. The tank just keeps going and going, and you're like, "ummmmm...."

The aftermath of this pull is 10/10 that all your cooldowns are expended trying to keep the tank up, and you die with nearly full MP because the damage per second far exceeds what you can heal. Does this situation sound familiar at all?

The first pull in DF is always the most dangerous because no one has any idea how the other members play. This is why I don't DoT during the first pull in DF because I need to evaluate the intentions of the tank. I let the tank do what they do, and I take no action until they firmly lock in agro. So when I see that he decides to pull every mob from start to boss, it becomes easy for me to see that the tank is selfish and expects everyone to adjust to their playstyle.

My suggestion isn't really something I think you should do. It's just something I would like for you to be aware of during the course of your healing career because when you have a selfish tank, you have to look after your own butt because he sure in the hell isn't.