Lol is this it for 4.06a buffs/nerfs? Review

My opinions on the changes currently listed on the preview notes. I'm really hoping for more cause if this is it.. Man...I'm kinda disappointed.



Anyway I'll update if they add more stuff.

Edit 1: Added overalls at the bottom of each role.

Edit 2: Added a tentative "tier list" Honestly not much changed. I'm sorry DRG.

Edit 3: Changed Ninja description slightly


Patch 4.06a offers a number of adjustments to PvP actions based on player feedback.



Paladin

Action Adjustment
Shield Bash Stun duration reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
Cover Oath Gauge cost increased from 20 to 25.
Shield Oath Reduction to damage taken changed from 20% to 25%.
Reduction to damage dealt changed from 20% to 25%.

Okay so reducing CC time, Eh 1 second? Guess that's fine.
Cover can be used... a little less? I guess i'll have to see that in action
Shield Oath change is good for heavy medal, though hopefully they do something about that too.



Warrior

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 15,000 to 15,500.
Defiance Increased maximum HP changed from 20% to 25%.
Increase to HP recovery via healing magic changed from 20% to 25%.
Reduction to damage dealt changed from 20% to 25%.
Onslaught The additional effect has been changed from knockback to stun with a duration of 2 seconds.

Okay so Warrior gets even more health than normal.. More damage reduction, lose their knockback but gain a stun.. I'll have to see how this plays out but at least Warrior got a real form of CC now making them not completely useless when trying to land kills.



Dark Knight

Action Adjustment
Grit Reduction to damage taken changed from 20% to 25%.
Reduction to damage dealt changed from 20% to 25%.
Power Slash Reduction to target's HP recovered by healing magic changed from 20% to 10%.
Lol so they didn't touch how powerful Blackest Night is at all and simply felt power slash was too strong. Looks like they're basically telling us healers have to carry.



Overall was it really necessary to nerf the damage that Warrior and Paladin Dealt as well? I'm not sure how 5% damage reductions will play out in terms of medal carrying. Dark Knight is honestly more on top now than it was before since Blackest Night wasn't even touched.
The buffs didn't feel like enough and the nerfs didn't really make any sense.

What is feedback and playing all these matches for?



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Monk

Action Adjustment
Tornado Kick Potency reduced from 2,500 to 2,000.
Riddle of Fire Increased damage effect reduced from 20% to 10%.
Increase to weaponskill recast time changed from 20% to 10%.
Umm... So I can agree with the nerf to T -Kick because Monk burst is a little bit strong right now, but with other changes they've done so far it seems a bit much to also nerf Riddle of Fire by 10% as well. This should bring Monk more in line with other DPS..
But now Melee lost one of their few easy carry jobs. The buff to weaponskill speed during Riddle of Fire is honestly not a big deal either way. But will mitigate the loss of a system wide change to action speed trait.


Dragoon

Action Adjustment
Jump Potency reduced from 1,250 to 1,000.
Battle Litany Recast time reduced from 120 to 60 seconds.
Increased damage effect reduced from 10% to 5%.
Jump costs 400 TP and is required to build your real burst.. Why in the world would they nerf it by 250 Potency, Drg already takes longer than Monk to kill, what was the point in nerfing Monk if they also nerf DRG.

It's interesting that they'd buff the uptime on Litany, this is another one of those things I'd have to see in actual practice, but it almost seems like a stab in the back with the potency being nerfed from 10 > 5% , another proof they're basically forcing the game to be completely healer heavy..



Samurai

Action Adjustment
Hissatsu: Shinten Kenki Gauge cost reduced from 25 to 20.
Hissatsu: Soten Kenki Gauge cost reduced from 25 to 20.
Recast time reduced from 10 to 5 seconds.
Hissatsu: Chiten Kenki Gauge cost reduced from 25 to 20.
Potency increased from 750 to 1,000.
Well where to start. The Kenki reduction to your Kenki spenders is honestly great.
I see they un-nerfed Chiten, not quite sure why they nerfed a counter in the first place,
just be smart and don't hit the Sam with Chiten up. However no touching to iaijutusu..
Then nerfing action skill speed trait also indirectly nerfing Iaijutusu cast time... Not a good sign at all.

Reducing recast to Soten is definitely gonna be an odd decision, Going to be even easier to run/stall now but the reduced cost in tandem will make gap closing + burst easier to pull off and sooner.





Ninja

Action Adjustment
Three Mudra Ninki Gauge cost reduced from 80 to 40.
Raiton Potency reduced from 2,000 to 1,500.
Bhavacakra Potency reduced from 3,000 to 2,500.
The additional effect stun with a duration of 2 seconds has been added.
Mug Increase to Ninki Gauge reduced from 30 to 20.
Adding a stun to Ninja? as well as the silence? Doesn't that seem a bit much? Why are you adding CC to the only melee job with real CC to begin with? The Ninki guage changes means sooner burst, the Raiton reduction and Bhavacakra reduction in potencies seem to be a balance to their ability to burst sooner and stun at the same time.

They let Ninja help secure kills/peel more when they already could before. Buffed/nerfed its burst while simultaneously screwing up 2 of the other melee. I don't think they read their data right... once again more proof they want the game to be super heal heavy.




Overall, Ninja is probably more go to if you're looking to secure games for your ranged (since unless they're RDM they're gonna be better than us melee plebs.)
I can understand bringing Monk down a bit but jeez. What's the point of bringing Monk down if you're going to bring everyone else down too? It's not like you can secure kills by yourself.

Balance be damned for melee. This is just disappointing. They even gave the only melee with a bind/Silence another form of CC.



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Bard

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 10,000 to 11,500.
Machinist

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 10,000 to 11,500.

Due to the lack of changes to BRD /MCH I'll touch on them both at the same time.
No nerfing barrage, no bringing MCH up to BRD level, no touching stun gun, nor overheat. I really hope there's way more changes coming because this just makes zero sense. The HP buff will be felt for healers and during LB's but that's about it. They already reduced most of the burst of melee partners so this is just salt in the wound right here.


Black Mage

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 10,000 to 11,000.
Foul Potency reduced from 4,500 to 4,000.
Of the changes this isn't what I would have gone with.. Though Foul was feeling very powerful I can't comment much more as I haven't really touched BLM and only fought them. But it seems like using Fire IV Swift Fire IV and Foul will still kill.

HP Increase... again? Why are you making ranges harder to kill and nerfing melee damage.

Summoner

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 10,000 to 11,000.
I think this is ok. I don't have much Summoner experience but they seem pretty balanced.

Red Mage

Action Adjustment
HP Increased from 10,000 to 11,000.
Veraero Potency increased from 1,500 to 1,750.
Verthunder Potency increased from 1,500 to 1,750.
Impact Potency increased from 1,750 to 2,000.
Manafication Recast time reduced from 60 to 45 seconds.
Okay so this doesn't really address the problem. The health up will definitely help a little bit, Manafication going down to 45 should help get burst quicker and get it back quicker. But it seems like they'd rather you stay at a range as long as you can then jump in at the last moment.


Overall, may the salt ensue? I mean MCH and BRD remain untouched for better or for worse(in MCH case definitely worse)
All ranged jobs got an HP increase even the ones that didn't need it, If you're going to increase their HP then you should have fixed the latency issue first,
Most of this stuff was a spit in the face to melee players and a spit in the face to MCH's.
RDM is still pretty bad.



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White Mage

Action Adjustment
Regen The effect of Regen will now always be overwritten when reapplied.
Bug fix, Necessary, no adjustment to actual healing... But with the increase in HP I guess that might not matter. They could have messed with Benediction a little though...

Scholar

Action Adjustment
Adloquium The effect of Adloquium will now always be overwritten when reapplied.
Lustrate Increase to Faerie Gauge changed from 10 to 5.
Wow.. Is that really it? GG, No Touching broil? Just decrease fairy gauge from Lustrate? I guess we'll have to see how that plays out..

Astrologian

Action Adjustment
Essential Dignity Recast time reduced from 15 to 10 seconds.
Disable Recast time reduced from 45 to 30 seconds.
Both good changes, though doesn't actually address the MP problem. Though I guess they're hoping reducing burst on melee and increasing HP on ranged will do that. Did all those matches and feedback mean anything?



Overall, the healer changes are literally salt-defining changes. Most things that needed to be touched wasn't touched, hell they were hardly touched at all. This season is absolutely disgusting.
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Additional Action

Action Adjustment
Recuperate Recast time reduced from 60 to 45 seconds.
I'm not really sure how much this will actually help. We only get two slots so it's not like you can take this if you weren't already taking it. With the increase to certain max HP thresholds it will play out a little better I guess... Game is still very healer heavy.

Trait

Action Adjustment
Increased Action Speed Decrease to weaponskill and spell cast and recast times changed from 5% to 3%.
Hey guys so we reduced your burst, how about your sustain and your nerfing your casts and action speed? This wasn't even necessary and actually nerfs Samurai slightly.




The following issues have been addressed.

An issue in PvP encounters wherein players could be knocked back even when using the PvP action Concentrate.
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Here is a tentative Tier List with current changes for your /salt\.. I mean Enjoyment

Tanks (Just play DRK)
Dark Knight(SO GOOD)
Paladin (STILL STRONG)
Warrior (ALRIGHT STUN FINALLY)

(Nothing changing right now. we'll see later this morning)

Melee (Aka Trash tier players)
Ninja(SO META)
Monk(STILL STRONG)
Samurai( Gl casting)
Dragoon(I'm sorry.)
(Poor Dragoon...)

Ranged (AKA The only real damage worth playing)
Bard(BARRAGE!!)
Smn(BAHAMUT!!)
Blm(FIIIIRE)
Mch(Waste of space)
Rdm(waste of space even more)
(Nothing changed! Possible change Rdm could overtake Mch depending on how things go but that's doubtful honestly.)


Healers(GET GOOD WITH THIS IF YOU WANNA BE ON THE BOARD THE WHOLE SEASON)
Scholar(GODLIKE)
Whm (Yeah well what else could be second?)
Ast(You exist to run out of mana)

As a RDM:

A 250 Potency to our second cast across the board isn't going to change the fact that, yes, we literally have to wait to the last second to use our attacks and finish someone off. Manaifcation changes will help, slightly? But we were already awkward on timing on Manification and our Mana generation and shaving 15 seconds really saves us about two rotations (4 GCDs) time every third or fourth building phase. Additionally, our TP is going to burn out now, we could barely balance it with the 60 second timer.

We have problems with the gap in our damage flow DURING our "Burst" Phase, not outside it. Unless they flatly intended that Verholy/Verflare not actually be a part of our considered burst and we're really just trying to snipe with Melee Combos and use the finisher to help build mana for the next.

This was, at best marking a checkmark off the list that said our damage over 8 minutes was lower on average, and this should bring it up some... it does little for our practical performance and seems more like they were addressing it on paper.

The Blm, Rdm, Smn hp buff seems okay since they have to stay still to cast. I still don't like Rdm jumping in..

White Mage, Scholar and Drk were barely touched at all what?

Bard and Mch got Hp buff and still have crazy amount of uptime..

On the note of Blackest Night, I feel like they don't touch it because of how it's utilized in Ranked PvP. I could be wrong, but hey.... that has the be the only explanation that stupid op buff hasn't been touched, right? Maybe? Hello? Anyone? *crickets*

Now, that RDM buff though. I have a buddy who can already play a godlike RDM. He's the only one who I've seen that can do it, though. So I can't wait to see what he pumps out with this buff.

That ninja buff tho? I have a feeling we have a new meta champion here, can you imagine the cc sustain the ninja can pull off with the stun AND silence now? Sure, they did receive a nerf in damage, but lets pretend the tank and the ninja have amazing synergy. One puts the stun and cc on the healer, the other puts the same on Ranged DPS. *sweats profusely*

I'm having a love hate relationship with the Monk nerf. I know that some monks on my Primal server have climbed to the top by being able to mitigate the damage really well between who is halfway low on hp and who isn't. This one monk in particular, no names said, always manages to be on the opposing team and every time I've noticed he is able to mitigate that damage perfectly and carry his team to victory simply by doing that. I know he's not going to like this buff at all because he won't be able to pull that spectacular, perfect burst as often anymore.

I do wish the ranged received more love and/or hate. Glad to see the HP Buff on the Bard though. :^) Will make collecting medals a little less terrifying hopefully.

*angry ast noises*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korihu

*angry ast noises*

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How you making any noises? Shouldn't you be dead/out of mana?

Forums: BRD is pretty strong. AST & RDM are actually garbage
SE: *gives BRD more hp, does nothing to fix how RDM bursts or AST's survivability/self healing/mp management*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi

Now, that RDM buff though. I have a buddy who can already play a godlike RDM. He's the only one who I've seen that can do it, though. So I can't wait to see what he pumps out with this buff.

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Well the fun part about all this is that now the Jolt II > Verholy/Verflare > Impact mini combo does 6k on its own. Basically breaking our "Burst" up between two 6k portions. Our melee combo with the CaC and retreat (6250) and our magic end burst (6000). It's just so spread out that without good cooridnation with the DPS, a semi-competent healer can just heal through all that. You just got to be really good with your timing.

Then there's the whole 'risk' thing but I don't see that be as huge of a factor as people play it out to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Then there's the whole 'risk' thing but I don't see that be as huge of a factor as people play it out to be.

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It's not anymore with the melee nerfs and the HP buff imo. The biggest issue is just your melee friends are gonna have to do a lot more to actually accompany your already spread out burst. Inadvertently making you worse than you were before because the damage just moved from them to you and making that damage worse because of the split.

Plus it all depends more on your healer and tank vs the other healer and tank than ever before now.

SCH changes a lot. It will be hard/impossible to keep the fey up the 100% of the time, since SCH healing is based on lustrates.

SCH will have to anticipate bursts instead of just spamm lustrates and broil from now on. We'll see how it ends up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cynric

It's not anymore with the melee nerfs and the HP buff imo. The biggest issue is just your melee friends are gonna have to do a lot more to actually accompany your already spread out burst. Inadvertently making you worse than you were before because the damage just moved from them to you and making that damage worse because of the split.

Plus it all depends more on your healer and tank vs the other healer and tank than ever before now.

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That does not make Red Mages worse so much as damage overall worse, however.

Again, on paper, our overall damage should go up from this, due to more frequent bursts and better overall downtime damage. Basicly, they narrowed down the performance differences between the bottom and top end damage dealers, then nerfed damage overall. Net result - all damage got worse, Red Mage comparatively got better - just not in the ways that matters.

Speculatively - This pushes the Meta more and more towards the "Culling Time Meta" I was starting to see with the incredible sustain Tanks and Healer were producing to begin with - in which the goal is to wear down the Healer's and Tanks resources until Culling Time, then push damage during it and see who wears down first. "Burst Meta" with this will be harder overall to achieve, as the same shields and heals that were encouraging it, are now also being met with overall higher HP pools and lower end damage on the Melee side.

We'll have to see. Overall the ability for a DPS to carry just got worse and it's making me question what shape SE's trying to make PvP take overall. I will say due to Recuperate timer, and RDM buffs, my favorite go-to got buffed, but I'm not sure how significantly yet. I don't think it's enough, but it will make me retest.

Apologies to the those that loath seeing RDMs in 4v4.

Managed to get some dummy time before work to check the changes... can't really speak for the damage increase in that regard, but the 15 second shave off of Manfication seems a bit promising. It does bring up the Melee Phases much more frequently. Had to take TP regen to keep up with the more frequent uses of CaC and Displacement though - without it we're burning through TP and that extra weve for CaC mid melee combo is a pipedream.

The trade off to that of course is that we're in melee range much more frequently to which I have to ask... SE, do you really think a 1000 more health for us is going to matter, or are you that convinced that people are going to be scared of our Melee phase enough for us not to get focused? (Especially seeming Paladin's can't cover us as frequently as they used to.)

While this will help Red Mage more damage wise, I do believe this will also bring more problems to the suface.

Those NiN changes tho... glad i picked right melee to lvlup. Now that three mudra is only 40 ninki you can probably do something like bhava at 100 ninki and mug+raiton after that so nerfing potencies on those two makes kinda sense. And adding stun on top of that is just icing on the cake, seems like nin is now my go to solo job. Also thank god for WAR getting stun, KB was fun but stun is more useful and to my surprise they actually didn't remove heavy from tomahawk so that's good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

DRK is another job that has been neglected. Literally no changes to it's CC or The Blackest Night still make it the far superior tank, and imo, there's no reason to pick PLD/WAR over it.

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PRETTY MUCH. They really showed how much they look at match data on that one.

I'm trying to put together a post on this, but I just can't seem to do it without being really negative.

MCH isn't bad, just incredibly basic. The lack of a really strong oGCD is often felt, and I can't stress enough that having a stun tied to a timed gauge can work against us more often than not. We deal a lot of damage when above 50 heat, but we're absolutely bound by the GCD, and it feels miserable at times knowing that having an oGCD at a crucial moment could make the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

MCH isn't bad, just incredibly basic. The lack of a really strong oGCD is often felt, and I can't stress enough that having a stun tied to a timed gauge can work against us more often than not. We deal a lot of damage when above 50 heat, but we're absolutely bound by the GCD, and it feels miserable at times knowing that having an oGCD at a crucial moment could make the difference.

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Yeah but why would you ever play MCH over brd with the way things are other than "I like MCH"
If you're trying to climb those boards, it's gonna be better just playing bard, is more so what I mean.

I haven't touched BRD in PvP since 4.0 yet, but I've also had little issue climbing as a MCH, for how little I've done so far. I will say - and I hope I don't come off bragging - that I don't see many other MCH who play it well.

On that note, for any MCHs reading, let me say this: Please don't fully load ammo before the fight. You're cheating yourself out of heat generation for 3 GCDs at the least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I haven't touched BRD in PvP since 4.0 yet, but I've also had little issue climbing as a MCH, for how little I've done so far. I will say - and I hope I don't come off bragging - that I don't see many other MCH who play it well.

On that note, for any MCHs reading, let me say this: Please don't fully load ammo before the fight. You're cheating yourself out of heat generation for 3 GCDs at the least.

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Bard is pretty strong in comparison and don't deal with any wonky mechanics like OH.

As far as that, Nah you're not bragging, at least on Aether I have yet to see any really decent MCH. The thing about BRD is you don't even have to be decent for it to be strong.

Honestly, if youre playing mch just to play mch youre going to have a bad time. There is no question that brd performs better and will have a larger impact on a match.

If theres an equally skilled brd vs a mch the brd will just do better until they get the bat or mch gets buffs (like an oGCD)

Brd just preforms REALLY well with a lot less baggage

I mean you can still have fun with mch, but expect to hit a wall at some point when you cant burst strong enough with the now gimped melee dps

Well, I'm still happy being DRK. I was afraid Blackest would be stomped. Cover is clunky anyway... Looks like DRK/NIN/BRD/SCH is the way to go?

I also think these changes are more of a temporary bandage until 4.1, when the new mecha-PVP thing is released and everyone forgets about Feast.

Booo @ DRG nerfs.

Those Paladin nerfs are ridiculous. Stuns were one of the few benefits they brought to the fight, and even then only useful if the rest of your team was able to focus and not act like a pack of hyper kittens. Now your team has even less time to react properly? And a lot of classes received HP buffs? Good luck with that.

And the Shield Oath damage nerf - if Paladin damage output wasn't already laughable it would probably be worth getting upset about. They could have just written that line in the patch notes as "Still horrible, but now more so".

Beside playing as a Paladin in PvP, I also often go in as DPS and Healer roles - and I honestly can't say that I ever cared when a Paladin was "attacking" me. It's a small miracle they don't just wander off discouraged and cry in a corner after a minute of wasted efforts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PotatoGirl

Forums: BRD is pretty strong. AST & RDM are actually garbage
SE: *gives BRD more hp, does nothing to fix how RDM bursts or AST's survivability/self healing/mp management*

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B-b-but they said it was based on player feedback!

I can only assume those players were also drunk.

If you squint really hard, you can see it says [SHATTER] Player feedback :)

tryed ninja and it feels worse now the damage you deal is very weak and when i try to stun something the tank has allready stunned the healer and it does nothing give back the old ninja <.<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snipski

tryed ninja and it feels worse now the damage you deal is very weak and when i try to stun something the tank has allready stunned the healer and it does nothing give back the old ninja <.<

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thats cause we can't coordinate with no chat.

besides didn't you get the memo? Melee not supposed to do real damage.

And yet they still left the healers as the most stressfull but boring job in pvp, all about targetingt fast enough to spam heal.

The what seems like a small change to SCH ended up having a very big impact on Scholars. A lot of scholars are saying how much harder it is in an extended fight because fairy is so important to have up and that sch healing is inadequate without the fairy but with each heal only giving 5 its hard to keep it up so they fall behind quickly. WHM might be the better healer now.

Also deorbit still blows pls remove and give us something useful aaa

Healers can now carry a match better than they ever could before. Had a subpar healer against a better healer last match, was like trying to fight in quicksand. Couldn't hurt their players, meanwhile, mine couldn't stop them from wrecking us. Feels really bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

And yet they still left the healers as the most stressfull but boring job in pvp, all about targetingt fast enough to spam heal.

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As SCH main I mudt unfortunately confirm that. Before 4.06a my winrate was at 70% and after losing several matches against WHM i ended up at 62% now. After switching to WHM it felt much easier and many fights ended up in a Draw after 10 minutes... which is extremly stressful. I must say 4.06a kind of destroyed playing heal for me. It was hard before now its super tense because the slightest mistake automatically decides the match :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korihu

The what seems like a small change to SCH ended up having a very big impact on Scholars. A lot of scholars are saying how much harder it is in an extended fight because fairy is so important to have up and that sch healing is inadequate without the fairy but with each heal only giving 5 its hard to keep it up so they fall behind quickly. WHM might be the better healer now.

Also deorbit still blows pls remove and give us something useful aaa

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Sorry I meant to quote Korihu in my previous post.

Incomming edit

Or the mobile site can disallow edits.

Will post the full story late tonight when I get home. Summary is that Rdm buffs are better than expected, but can't fix core weaknesses in the build.

And most Rdms needs to learn more about their pvp incarnation because I don't see them using the tricks that help me win. Still. When the extended magic combo is 6k damage now.

Ugh.

Why is it this happens. Surely they have someone to audit forum/player feedback. Why do they always do something that seems like the opposite of what the consensus called for? Mind boggling...

The stun nerf for PLD was totally uncalled for. And Hallowed Ground still doesn't block CC. Sad day.