Healing in PVP is one of the worst experiences in this game

When original wolves den came out healing was pretty fun.
Before quick-chat healing was pretty fun.
Up until shatter, healing was pretty fun in frontlines.

But now shatter is basically just a deathmatch of people splitting up and not listening, making decent healing nearly impossible in about half of the matches (especially on Maelstrom)

And The Feast is just angry DPS or tanks who split up or run out of line of sight, and spam anytime they die.
More importantly, the limited number of skills a healer now gets, makes it impossible to carry a bad party (as we could in the past).

There's a reason why there are so few healers in frontlines.
And why healer is insta-queue for feast 95% of the time (the other 5% is probably waiting on another healer)

PVP either needs a serious re-balance, or healers need some special rewards.

Frontlines needs a new "seal rock" (which required coordination of objectives, so that people were usually in the same spot) or similar game mode that isn't so reliant on hitting things (which seems to be all dps want to do half the time)

And the feast either needs rebalancing, actual ability to communicate with each other (no quick chat), or a limitation on the number of times you can spam "nice job" or "good game" as that's become the new shit-talking anytime someone dies.

I would rate healers in a dungeon as a far worst experience with the wall to wall pulls. It's just spam heal until its over. If you're lucky, you might get to cast a DoT. At least PvP feels healers can take on a more active role.

At least in PvP, classes are all balanced around a certain style, but like normal queues, there is a severe shortage of healers and tanks, which is why healers have fast queues.

Instant queue can be seen as special rewards

I would heal if they had special rewards, but seriously you don't won't me to heal haha.

It's unfortunate that there's now so much pressure and reliance upon healers now, especially in 4vs4. Not only do they need very fast reflexes and great situational awareness to be effective it's very easy for anything other than a healer to melt when under focused attack. Survival tools for non healers are now very minimal. Many matches seem to come down to which team has the better healer rather than which team did better overall.

I wish people stayed together based on parties in shatter. I won't be sad to see that mode go.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

More importantly, the limited number of skills a healer now gets, makes it impossible to carry a bad party (as we could in the past).

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What alternate reality are you living in? The rank 1 for Feast on 4/6 DC's are all healers. Healers can carry more than any other class.

Regarding queues, this has nothing to do with new changes. Healers and tanks have always been the least queued classes for both PvP and PvE.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

What alternate reality are you living in? The rank 1 for Feast on 4/6 DC's are all healers. Healers can carry more than any other class.

Regarding queues, this has nothing to do with new changes. Healers and tanks have always been the least queued classes for both PvP and PvE.

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The rank 1 for healers is probably due to insta-queues as opposed to 10min+ queues, not due to carrying.
And while I'm sure a good healer will make a difference when playing with skilled people, there's not much you can do as a healer when a DPS keeps running into the enemy and insta-dying.

No chat = no way to tell people to stay close and not split up
And lack of abilities = no way to carry people who are -bad- (I guess bad is the key).

At least in the old pvp, if you had one bad DPS, the other DPS could burst-kill and you could still win. Now you either need the other party to have a terrible healer, or you need ppl working together.

Honestly there's two sides to this train of thought. Currently in 4v4 the game is very healer reliant. It does matter more if you have a good healer than if you have a good anything else that isn't a tank.

However the over-dependence on healers means that if you die, or you can not keep up with the damage going out, the game is lost. Healers currently while yes the best carry can not deal with overly split damage. In my experience people simply do not have the reflexes to; heal before/after silences, heal multiple targets taking full burst rotations/limit breaks, while healing themselves and trying to run away.

Healers also run away from the team far far too often, melee can't push if you don't try, the ranged are gonna try to hang by you, if the enemy retreats and you're down.

the healers need to go forward or no one can. Far too often have I seen Fall Back! when the enemy team is retreating and you're down on medals with 1 minute left on the timer.

Tl;DR : while healer may be the best way to carry, the reflexes and situational awareness required are a bit high . But your chances of losing with a bad / bronze healer are way way higher than if you have a bronze /bad DPS. That's why its better to heal, to take the bad healer out of the equation. But if you yourself are not a great healer. (healing on controller is honestly a pain for me)

Then going in as a healer is no different than having a random bad one anyway.

Also there's no quick chat function that says "I'm CC'd" so unless people have you focus targetted, or are looking at the party list every now and then, no one has any way at all to know.

How do you explain the insane winrates of the top ranked healers, im curious?

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Originally Posted by Takatsuki

How do you explain the insane winrates of the top ranked healers, im curious?

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90% of feast players can't heal to save their lives(lol), in that case the better healer wins and those people are the better healers, but that won't be the case for everyone who tries to switch to it. You still need to know how to heal to get a winrate like that. A little bit of luck in matchups doesn't hurt either. Some of those people play at night/early morning, and some play all day, at least on my DC.

Of course the majority is horrible at healing, that's how it always is, I just dont get how healers are supposed to be unable to carry?
Noone is stopping anyone from getting to a level where you can carry.
I dont think the time of queing matters anymore with the amount of new people flooding the MM, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Takatsuki

Of course the majority is horrible at healing, that's how it always is, I just dont get how healers are supposed to be unable to carry?
Noone is stopping anyone from getting to a level where you can carry.
I dont think the time of queing matters anymore with the amount of new people flooding the MM, but that's just me.

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Oh nah, you definitely can carry if you can heal way more than any other role can right now, but I already said that. It just depends on if you know how is all, all I said was people can't just switch to healer and expect to do better cause they're healing.

Its not only the healer. If you have DPS who spread their damage all over the place and run like headless chicken, its lost. You rather ran out of mana or watch your people die, because the other team always focus better than your team.

The sad thing is, that ANYTHING depends on your healer (for the most part). It was the problem in 3.0 and its a bigger problem in 4.0. At least, healers are now extremely hard to kill (2nd highest amount of life!), but also limited to their skills.

I wished, that SE reworked PvP a bit more. Dont get me wrong. Make it more accessable for other player is good. Give players a extemely limited skillset is bad. Disabled chat makes it even worse!

In my opinion, it would be better to make any class more equal. Instead of being dependend on your healer, it would be a better idea to give all players more skills to be stand-alone (like having more selfheal- and defense-abilities). Healers should be changed as some kind of supporter (HoT, Damage-buffs, s.o.).

Some (very successfull) PvP-MMORPGs doesnt even have the traditional Healer-DPS-Tank-Constellation. Every player is responsible for his own actions. If you die, blame yourself. There is no healer who take you hand and carry you.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

The rank 1 for healers is probably due to insta-queues as opposed to 10min+ queues, not due to carrying.

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No, it is due to them carrying their team. They all have 70% win rate, with most having 78%+. Healers can carry better than any other class, period.

Healing is so not fun in the Feast. I did the training mode and then tried the 4v4 afterwards...not really looking forward to doing it again.

If you know how to play a WHM in PvP you are basically god...at least in Frontlines. I'm guessing they balance around the mode the vast majority of players will never even bother with (4x4)... but seriously, if you want to heal in PvP just play a WHM in Frontlines a good one will have no issue holding off 3/4 DPS, even when one is a BRD actually strategically using the (fairly garbage) silence. You shouldn't be able to 1v1 a healer (that is good balance) but when 2-3 are focusing a healer with no other support for the healer from their teammates they should be dead...and that is just not the case with this new PvP design (unless you are an AST - sorry AST you are easy fodder... sometimes even 1v1 if they don't know what they are doing.)

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Originally Posted by Koltik

What alternate reality are you living in? The rank 1 for Feast on 4/6 DC's are all healers. Healers can carry more than any other class.

Regarding queues, this has nothing to do with new changes. Healers and tanks have always been the least queued classes for both PvP and PvE.

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This is because the difference between a great healer and a bad healer are absolutely insane. Healing has an extremely low skill floor and a massive ceiling. Having a bad healer is almost an instant loss if you are against a good healer, with your only hope of winning being something silly like their tank 10 stacking.

Some of the best players gravitate towards healers because it has great carry potential AT THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST END OF PLAY.

You were there for the Aether cup, right? Even then, back in S4 when healers were invincible, those healers died like 3+ times per match. Healers are not strong against teams that have any semblance of coordination. In fact, they are weaker than they have ever been. The reason you see so many healers in the top ranks is simply because the healers they are farming grant them free wins.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

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Yep pretty much this. When I get healers that won't push past the first wall, won't kite, or even wont heal anyone but themselves. Its just a free win to the other healer, unless I can burst them down by myself because goodness knows my DPS partner wont pay attention to enemy health.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

It has great carry potential AT THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST END OF PLAY.

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Yes, healers can carry better than anyone else. No other class can pull as much weight as a well played healer can. The amount of influence a healer has over a match is larger than any other individual slot in a 4v4 feast match.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

Yes, healers can carry better than anyone else. No other class can pull as much weight as a well played healer can. The amount of influence a healer has over a match is larger than any other individual slot in a 4v4 feast match.

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Yes, on that note we agree. However, that subjective fact does not denounce the claim of the OP. Great healers are only able to carry that hard because of the gap in skill between them and the enemy healer. The gap is so big because as has been mentioned, healing is extremely difficult against good players and season 5 healing is harder than ever.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

You shouldn't be able to 1v1 a healer (that is good balance) but when 2-3 are focusing a healer with no other support for the healer from their teammates they should be dead...and that is just not the case with this new PvP design (unless you are an AST - sorry AST you are easy fodder... sometimes even 1v1 if they don't know what they are doing.)

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Idk, I /usually/ don't have issues outliving 2-3 people, on AST. Maybe more, sometimes. I outlived a Mael zerg that literally ignored the big ice below us, to chase my lone ass. All of those red names, I felt like I was playing Aion again ಠ_ಠ
Gotta love line of sighting and lightspeed/bole/ewer/disable/ES/malefic bind if your hp is at a comfortable level

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Originally Posted by Astrololol

Idk, I /usually/ don't have issues outliving 2-3 people, on AST. Maybe more, sometimes. I outlived a Mael zerg that literally ignored the big ice below us, to chase my lone ass. All of those red names, I felt like I was playing Aion again ಠ_ಠ
Gotta love line of sighting and lightspeed/bole/ewer/disable/ES/malefic bind if your hp is at a comfortable level

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Feast is a different story for ast, frontlines anything can be viable.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

Feast is a different story for ast, frontlines anything can be viable.

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I wouldn't know, haven't touched Feast in SB, but I'd assume it's because no aoe heal besides lb, and no shields/regens. Never really liked Feast, there's no reason imo to try to be competitive unless you're in a premade, but Frontline is pretty shit, too (espically shatter). The way pvp is handled on XIV is a deterrent in itself.

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Originally Posted by Astrololol

there's no reason imo to try to be competitive unless you're in a premade

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This why i find it weird that people still think SE is taking Feast to esport, its pretty clear now that esport is out of question as they removed LP. To me there is really no "true" competitive mode left in this game, at least officially supported one with ratings etc, CM will be closest thing to competitive mode but it looks like there will be no pixel rewards just the thrill of battle itself. And yeah FL is pretty crap at the moment as well and dunno if i can ever enjoy it like i did before, looks like FL kinda requires premade to get that old fun back now that you can't be one man army.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

This why i find it weird that people still think SE is taking Feast to esport, its pretty clear now that esport is out of question as they removed LP.

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SE has a tendency to say one thing and then do the opposite.

"We want Feast to be a competitive game mode and move into esports!"

They then proceed to remove any sort of aspects resembling competitive sport from the game mode.