State of Ranged Jobs Discussion

It feels like more people are playing ranged these days because they really don't have down time or draw backs. I feel like an "Adjustment"(polite way companies say nerf) is most likely on the way, but I don't really think their damage needs lowered so much as the amount of up time they get v.s. jobs they need to close the gap on them as they sprint away. What do you guys and gals think is in store for Ranged in our future updates?

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

It feels like more people are playing ranged these days because they really don't have down time or draw backs. I feel like an "Adjustment"(polite way companies say nerf) is most likely on the way, but I don't really think their damage needs lowered so much as the amount of up time they get v.s. jobs they need to close the gap on them as they sprint away. What do you guys and gals think is in store for Ranged in our future updates?

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Ranged has a lower health pool making them super squishy, Forcing them to get up close and personal makes them even more squishy and games would just become protect your ranged the entire game or suffer feeding. If they do reduce their range then they should require a HP buff just as healers received to make up for it.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

Ranged has a lower health pool making them super squishy, Forcing them to get up close and personal makes them even more squishy and games would just become protect your ranged the entire game or suffer feeding. If they do reduce their range then they should require a HP buff just as healers received to make up for it.

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Lower health does not make for a squishy character that is determined by defense values. they have less because they are able to engage first, however with small matches such as feast 8 or 4 bolt allows for a kill with little of no damage taken. Would you say then that it is working as intended because they have 2500 less hp? That seems jaded Mr. weaver 70.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

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I'm guessing this is just with PvP, but yeah, for the most part I think the reason why it seems like a lot more people are playing ranged is because of the influx of Red Mage and the "fixing" of Bard and Machinist. Essentially everyone who loved the ARR version of physical ranged is coming back to the job they love. I could see how they would seem overpowered by comparison since it's much easier for them to be more aware of the battlefield and their ability to run away while still fighting back seems pretty hopeless. Unfortunately though, I don't see any sort of nerf coming any time soon since there are plenty of answers to these tactics already in the game.

It's also funny that you would judge someone based on the "Main Class" they put on the forum since the choice they pick doesn't have to be their highest or most played class. 2500 HP is a pretty big difference when you're talking about 10k and 12.5k HP max totals, so yes, Jigo has a pretty valid point.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Lower health does not make for a squishy character that is determined by defense values. they have less because they are able to engage first, however with small matches such as feast 8 or 4 bolt allows for a kill with little of no damage taken. Would you say then that it is working as intended because they have 2500 less hp? That seems jaded Mr. weaver 70.

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I'm not sure what the defense values are (Are there even any defense values? I feel like I hit tanks just as hard as I hit dps, it's just the hp helps buffer them) but 10k hp can drop with the snap of a finger if the enemy dps is good, It's the reason defense buffs are ALWAYS going to ranged dps, because they need it the most. The added range they have allows them to dps from a safe distance without being an arms length away from all of their damage suddenly thrown onto you.

EDIT: It's the reason RDMs are so bad in pvp right now, they're just too squishy with the melee dance they're forced to do to even do damage.
EDIT2: Tanks have 15000 hp Ranged have 10k, 5k hp is a huge amount.

5,000 hp comes at the cost of damage or defense. Tanks without their stance are made of butter, but tanks in stance deal low damage.

RDM isn't bad so long as you are smart about when you decide to use the melee combo. Even purely nuking as RDM is decent damage.

There are defense values otherwise you wouldn't be able to take damage as it couldn't be determined. 2,500 is literally nothing you can hit for that in one attack np.

Back to topic though do you think they will adjust them and how?

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

It's also funny that you would judge someone based on the "Main Class" they put on the forum since the choice they pick doesn't have to be their highest or most played class. 2500 HP is a pretty big difference when you're talking about 10k and 12.5k HP max totals, so yes, Jigo has a pretty valid point.

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it's especially funny when you consider that jigo is top 20 on primal lol

Also these HP values do make a pretty big difference. A ranged DD with just 1 stack of heavy medal will imediately get one shot by a melee adrenaline rush, whereas every other class can survive it.

Literally every melee has a gap closer, and every one of them not named Samurai can 100-0 a ranged solo in like 2 seconds flat. There are no defense stats in pvp.

Ranged suffers the worst from heavy medal. Nuking on a red mage doesn't do enough damage against a decent healer, plus you could just be silenced if the tank is able to split attention or if the enemy has another form of silence.

Bard does a ton of damage but I don't really notice machinist doing a lot very often, but to be fair the machinist I fight could just be bad. Smn seems to be in a good spot for the most part. Blm hits pretty hard but takes forever to cast those hard hits it seems like.

I dunno I feel like if ranged jobs were toned down anymore they'd be bottom of the barrel bad. Even with the defense buff they get hit pretty hard.

I'm not talking specifically about feast when I say a nerf is likely, Though that does bring up a decent question concerning pvp as a whole. What do we do when balance for entry content IE unranked and large scale splashes into ranked feast? I actually was grouped with a couple different RDM in 4v4 feast tonight and they pretty much effectively timed combo for kills which worked out nicely in tandem with me. Personal experience for me is only 8v8 and large scale as RDM and I pretty much nag damage people with spells then finish combo someone while the healer is busy. I'm not an aficionado ,or pro by any means; just a fan willing to try things to accomplish my goals. MCH can be a terror in large scale not to the degree BRD is but again that is personal experience. If anything BLM feels like the odd man out unless every one I see is just missing something in how they play. In large scale the issue I would site with brd apart from retreat tactics is the power of DOTs. The phrase "set it and forget it" comes to mind.

Nerf is not likely or even plausible.

Ranged dps are the least impactful role in The Feast as they are the easiest to kill.

They actually do less meaningful damage than melee, as melee have higher burst.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

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Feast should be the gamemode they nerf / balance classes around, not unranked content.

I don't know anyone in the pvp community that thinks ranged dps are unbalanced, and I honestly can't understand why anyone would think that.
The one thing unbalanced about the ranged jobs is probably RDM being completely useless in comparison to the other 3 jobs.

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Originally Posted by Takatsuki

I don't know anyone in the pvp community that thinks ranged dps are unbalanced, and I honestly can't understand why anyone would think that.
The one thing unbalanced about the ranged jobs is probably RDM being completely useless in comparison to the other 3 jobs.

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I think the OP is probably talking about Frontlines, where everyone is ranged cuz it's safer and the map is huge and yes, melee just get exploded there for the most part as soon as they try to engage. But...lul FLs, let's not dick around nerfing ranged when Feast is the real barometer used for PVP balance.

Oh my bad, I didnt think anyone would take FL serious lul.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

Feast should be the gamemode they nerf / balance classes around, not unranked content.

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It should be as it is ranked play.

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Originally Posted by Takatsuki

Oh my bad, I didnt think anyone would take FL serious lul.

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The devs DO make balance adjustments in relation to battlegrounds - there have been a few changes made specifically to ranged to try to stop the Cometeor stack obsession that's been happening since Carteneau. But individual class balance matters really should be tailored around competitive gameplay, not large-scale BGs where cheese comps and lack of adequate party support are common.

I think if they make any adjustments now due to frontline, they'll mess up classes even more for 4v4.

And every job is playable in FL, melee might have a bit of a barrier but its definitely still doable(I got battle high/fevers plenty of time before the season started) Samurai is actually kinda decent in FL cause of Enpi + gap closer, but in 4v4 they're the weakest melee by far with a cast time for a mere 3.3k damage, so if we were to go oh Samurai is fine in FL or too strong so we should nerf it or leave it the same, It'd never be able to compete in 4v4. The same goes for RDM. It's easy to nuke > melee> displace in FL, but in 4v4 you will die.

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Originally Posted by Dmal

Also these HP values do make a pretty big difference. A ranged DD with just 1 stack of heavy medal will imediately get one shot by a melee adrenaline rush, whereas every other class can survive it.

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Melee LB is 8K right? one stack is 12%. So 8,960 damage (assuming the melee has the 3% damage up, but the ranged has the 3% damage down). So not a one shot, sure damn close, but not one shot.

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

Melee LB is 8K right? one stack is 12%. So 8,960 damage (assuming the melee has the 3% damage up, but the ranged has the 3% damage down). So not a one shot, sure damn close, but not one shot.

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If you're melee LBing someone at full HP you're playing pvp wrong, as well as the buff falls by the time anyone gets an LB.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

If you're melee LBing someone at full HP you're playing pvp wrong, as well as the buff falls by the time anyone gets an LB.

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There's actually a use for it at full HP, mind you it depends on the healer.

At lower HP you LB for the kill

at higher HP you LB for the healer to be distracted or split their heals.

A common practice I've made a habit of is to melee LB one target, then burst the other, since my burst is about as strong or stronger than the melee LB it works out. Dunno how other melee would fair though.(why is my burst more than an LB?)

I have hit limit on people at 100% , but it's very circumstantial. Kudos for strategic play though.

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Originally Posted by Jigokunoreizasan

If you're melee LBing someone at full HP you're playing pvp wrong, as well as the buff falls by the time anyone gets an LB.

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But then you could say everyone is a one shot as long as they are below 8k HP, just saying that if a ranged is topped, they can live.

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

Melee LB is 8K right? one stack is 12%. So 8,960 damage (assuming the melee has the 3% damage up, but the ranged has the 3% damage down). So not a one shot, sure damn close, but not one shot.

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I am pretty sure I've been one shot with a single medal stack. I might however have perceived it wrong and took additional damage during it. I even remember my healer in that match going out of their way to message me about not taking medals because of that where I was counterarguing that nobody else was taking them and they would have expired.