Lokyst.net simulator

So somebody in another thread linked Lokyst.net simulator, and I dunno if I did something wrong, but the result I got was really wonky.

I input my level (Alc 61) and I told it the skills I have access to, and I put in my stats and I told it to simulate for me, a Noble's Picatrix.

It spits out really weird results, some of which claim 100% but suggest me using things like Advanced Touch with no Steady Hands, and I'm like wha?

But anyways, this is the method I've been using:

1). Comfort Zone
2). Inner Quiet
3). SH2
4). Hasty Touch II x5
5). Mend II
6). Careful Synth II x2
7). SH2
8). Hasty Touch II x2
9). Innovation
10). Great Strides
11). Brow/Blessing depending on CP stacks
12). Careful Synth II

And this yielded a significantly higher result. In fact when doing it, I messed up and forgot IQ until after the 2nd Hasty II which cost me a not-so-small chunk of Quality and I still easily got 80% of the Quality Bar filled in (I was very much surprised I could do this with a Lv58 HW synth with all but 1 NQ material).

So... why isn't Lokyst suggesting stuff like Comfort Zone and Byregot's?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I dunno if I did something wrong, but the result I got was really wonky.... why isn't Lokyst suggesting stuff like Comfort Zone and Byregot's?

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Nope, you did nothing wrong. You just need some perspective on the mechanics of the site.
The auto solver will attempt to produce an "optimal" rotation. The definition of optimal is fewest touches and most guaranteed quality and completion. Thus, Advanced Touch is powerful touch, thus, faster rotation. What is does not do is produce the best rotation. From the few times I have used that auto-solver, I have never liked its auto-generated rotations.
E.g. The solver suggested Advanced Touch, I know that Observe + Focused Touch produces the same quality without needing SHII, costs less CP in total and only costs me 1 additional step in the rotation.

Most of us which use the simulator implicitly understand that it is guess work. This is a safe place to try things out without spends materials.
I most commonly use this site to do the CP addition operations for me, saves me a bunch of time using pen / paper and some in game trial and error.

The estimations are pretty decent but not fully accurate. It is a great reference tool but it does not have access to the true source code used in the game. The estimations are best effort formula reverse engineered from data point output.

e.g. fabricated number to demonstrate
1000 craftsmanship, careful synthesis II, character level 70, item level 68 = completion X (say 355)
1005 craftsmanship, careful synthesis II, character level 70, item level 68 = completion X (say 355)
1010 craftsmanship, careful synthesis II, character level 70, item level 68 = completion X (say 360)
1015 craftsmanship, careful synthesis II, character level 70, item level 68 = completion X (say 365)

The site programmer takes this data and compiles formula based on the data in an attempt to replicate the final numbers. But it is an estimation because the game only outputs whole numbers. Decimals are truncated off, thus, accuracy is lost.

Ahh. Okay. That explains that a bit.

Well, I discovered I can 100% HQ Lv58 stuff with NQ materials, even with 1/7 Hasty Touch II fails with my Alchemist now, and I've commissioned (after spending 2+ hours to get the materials) a set of Lv61 crafting gear... now I just need to get my other crafters *to* 61 which will either take a crapton of crystals, levequests, or both, though I will also keep an eye out on GC turn-ins.

The problem with GC turnins..... it's all Master Craft this, Master Craft that... I got lucky with CRP... I was able to HQ a Birch Spinning Wheel and dumped 60% of a levelup (it was starred lol) but otherwise... everything else wants Master Crafts.

I can get some scrips by doing Lv60 alchemy items.... but... eventually I will ding 62 and they will stop giving me good scrips (I assume the Lv60 stuff will drop down into the 10-per range instead of 50) and I'm assuming the Lv61 stuff will just simply be too difficult in comparison to reliably get them good enough to turn in for collectors.

Hopefully by that time I got another class on 61 I can do some more scrips with to handle all of these Master Recipes the GC wants.

Since you're complaining about needing mastercrafterbooks... could it be possible that you havent finished your crafter-quests? I remember that most/all HW-60-crafterquests required you to have certain masterbooks - the same masterbooks that most GC-turn-ins are pulling from. That you dont seem to have them indicates that you're at least missing the level60-quests.

But! ALL of them are giving lots of exp, so you should really do them! Same goes for SB, once you're there - crafting and gathering quests are giving really, really good exp. Depending on the level its about 1.5-2 million, so nothing to be taken lightly!

(I know thats a bit offtopic but since you seem to have trouble leveling your crafters, I thought I'd leave that hint here)

All the crafter quests require HQ turn-ins and that's been a brick wall for me, but now that I know I have almost 100% chance to HQ up to Lv58 (and I suppose Lv60 items are not that far behind, even if it takes a couple tries), that I will try the crafter quests soon, yes. I suppose that would make a nice chunk of XP to get me towards Lv61 so I can wear my new clothes when I get them.

And I wasn't really "complaining", though I will note that the GCs almost always asking for Mastercraft Items makes it more difficult to get to 61 because now I gotta gather up some almost 2k scrips for all of those mastercraft books to get to 61. That's a lot of scrips, lol. Not really "complaining", but I do note that it is going to suck up a lot of time and perhaps maybe even some money if some of it is too hard to get (I note a lot of this stuff wants unspoiled nodes too).

I will agree that HW took a step back locking crafts like that in a Mastercraft book. I mean I get that they want players to work on them, but when you look at how empty your recipe list was because so many were MC locked it was kinda silly. Mastercraft implies that you had Mastery of the Craft, so when stuff is at an odd level that should be under 70 that's not a glamour item it...seems weird.

It makes things feel inconsistent too. Already trying to figure out what is or is not in a book is a bit of a pain (without having to use a website) and there should have been some consistency in its usage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

But anyways, this is the method I've been using:

1). Comfort Zone
2). Inner Quiet
3). SH2
4). Hasty Touch II x5
5). Mend II
6). Careful Synth II x2
7). SH2
8). Hasty Touch II x2
9). Innovation
10). Great Strides
11). Brow/Blessing depending on CP stacks
12). Careful Synth II

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Hmm... SH II and then HT II x5... so there's only 50 durab consumed, but then you immediately used Master's Mend II. Isn't that 10 durab wasted? Why not move one of the CS II up, so you consume 60 durab before using MM2? Also, the Innovation can be moved up one step so that it buffs the final Hasty Touch II as well. Btw, forget about Brow if you have IQ6 or above. You'd rather save up enough CP for a proper Blessing. The difference is amplified by the GS and Innov, so it's actually quite large. I modified your rotation a bit into the following:

CZ
IQ
SH II
HT II
HT II
HT II
HT II
HT II
CS II
MM2
CS II
SH II
HT II
Innov
HT II
GS
Blessing
CS II

But then I realized it's an 80 durab item that you're making here. So after the MM2, the rotation has only consumed 50 durab. There's 30 durab that was untouched! If CP is an issue, I feel like you should use fewer HT II to buy an extra SH II. The result is the following:

CZ
IQ
SH II
HT
HT
HT
HT
HT
CS II
MM2
CS II
SH II
HT
HT
HT
HT II
SH II
Innov
HT II
GS
Blessing
CS II

This rotation used exactly the same amt of CP as your original rotation, but it has potentially 3 more touches. Although HT has a lower chance of success than HT II, even if you gained 1 more touch than your original rotation, it'd have been worth it. If you can somehow have 18 more CP, either from food or from a Trick of Trade, you can then swap out the last HT II into Basic Touch, so that it's 100% secure.

Actually, now that the rotation is lengthened, you can actually use a second CZ:

CZ
IQ
SH II
HT
HT
HT
HT
HT
CS II
MM2
CS II
CZ
SH II
HT
HT
HT
HT II
SH II
Innov
HT II
GS
Blessing
CS II

After the second CZ, I can see that there are only 9 steps before the final Blessing, so there's still 8 CP unable to be retrieved back from the investment of second CZ. But even so, it's still a 6 CP gain. And if you're lucky enough to have even 1 Trick of Trade taken in your rotation, you will be able to have that 8 CP retrieved back. This increased your CP pool by another 14 CP, which you could potentially use for something... 14 CP + that one Trick of Trade = 34 CP gain. It can be a Standard Touch to replace the last HT II... Or if you somehow have 2 more CP, then you can split 36 CP into two for two Basic Touches to replace the HT II / HT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

--snip--

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I realized after I posted it... I don't know if that's what I actually did when I made the books earlier, or if I really did throw a CSII in there before Mending. And yes, I do suppose the Innovation could be moved up a step, now that you mention it. I think I thought of that once before, but I tend to forget about it.

Either way, I've discovered that if only 1 HT2 fails, I can still get guaranteed 100% assuming I don't get an Excellent on the wrong step (and thus Poor lands on a Touch or Worse, Byregot's). But I suppose those are things to take into consideration when doing more difficult stuff, yes.

As far as Brow/Blessing, I am indeed aware of the IQ6 line, that's why I wrote Brow/Blessing in my OP, because if I have IQ5, it'd be better to use Brow rather than Blessing, or if I somehow end up with <24CP then I guess Brow is the best I can do. But that usually doesn't happen, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

As far as Brow/Blessing, I am indeed aware of the IQ6 line, that's why I wrote Brow/Blessing in my OP, because if I have IQ5, it'd be better to use Brow rather than Blessing, or if I somehow end up with <24CP then I guess Brow is the best I can do. But that usually doesn't happen, though.

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Ah, I see. I didn't realize you could have IQ5... Ok, cool beans! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Ah, I see. I didn't realize you could have IQ5... Ok, cool beans! :)

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Yeah, if HT2 fails twice, IIRC, it comes out to IQ5 at the end... so I keep both on my hotbar just in case, lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Yeah, if HT2 fails twice, IIRC, it comes out to IQ5 at the end... so I keep both on my hotbar just in case, lol.

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Oh Maeka... (I know I'm starting to be annoying, LOL!)... You said, in your original rotation, if even 1 HT II fails, you can still HQ it 100%. Your original rotation had only 7 touches... minus 1 is 6 touches, equal to IQ7. If even IQ7 can get you 100%, there's no point in using Hastys at all (see below):
Left side is your original rotation. Middle is a rotation which used Waste Not instead of MM2. Right side is a variant of the same rotation.
http://i.imgur.com/TPoPPoc.png
The use of Master's Mend II would not have been necessary. Instead, you can just spent 56 CP on WN, and put all that remaining CP into Basic Touches to make everything 100% secure. You will still have sufficient CP for an Innov-buffed Advanced Touch before your Blessing. Wouldn't that be even better? :D

I've never messed around with WN much. I know it can be useful, it's just... weird and I'm afraid that I'd miscalculate and end up running out of durability or something lol.

But this is something to try, sure.

Though your rotations above assume Durability 80 instead of the 70 that most HW+ items have. But I suppose that's an easy enough fix, simply remove 1 of the basic touches and it'd still surely work.

EDIT: And no, you're not being a bother at all. This is nice stuff to study and consider, lol. I hadn't thought of doing it that way. You're introduced to Mend at a very early level and it just kinda sticks with you and feels natural, then they throw WN at you awhile later and it's like "ok, how do I actually make use of this?" and it's hard to do in your head how much you get when you use WN instead of Mend.

WN and Mend are NOT the same thing, and though they serve the same purpose (trade CP for more Durability) they function in different, somewhat complimentary ways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

WN and Mend are NOT the same thing, and though they serve the same purpose (trade CP for more Durability) they function in different, somewhat complimentary ways.

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Yeah, you can Mend as many times as you want until you're out of CP... but you can only WN until you run out of Durability lol.

Anyways...

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...540DDAE68BFBD/

I managed to 100% HQ a Koppranickel Index with all but 1 NQ material (the ink) even though I made several mistakes.

Hopefully I get more comfortable, because it takes me forever to craft as I'm afraid of messing up (in the aforementioned synth, I didn't realize I forgot IQ until after the first touch which wasted 1 Waste Not duration).

Can't believe I got max quality on that synth lol. And I didn't get anything like an Excellent or anything (well I did, but I had to ToT it). SYnth before, a "Poor" landed on my Byregot's step and I didn't notice it coming... still got 80% of the quality bar filled in.

Basically the rotation I'm using for this one is...

MM
CZ
IQ (if I don't forget the stupid thing lol)
SH2
WN
HT2 x 4
CS2 x3 (CZ in the middle of this when it wears off)
Mend2
CS2 (This and the above step can be switched)
SH2
HTx5
SH2
Innov
GS
Blessing (which is overkill, I need like 1500-2000 Quality to max, it gives me 5000+)
CS2

And done.

EDIT: Eh, that ran me kinda short on CP, lol. I guess that only works if you get a few ToTs like I did the first time I tried this. Still maxed it, though. I just had to leave GS out and only use Innov. Still more than enough to fill it in.

EDIT2: Awww, I dinged a level with 1 book left to make and now it's not starred anymore. Ah well. This next one should be even easier to make now.

GS is more important than Innovation. Even if it is the only boost you use for your Byregot's, try to save enough CP for it at least. Innovation will bump your Control up by 50% of your starting Control - a decent enough bump, but not nearly as big as doubling the Quality added, which is what Great Strides does.

Ex : with my stats, I just got 405 Quality on a BT (no IQ for this comparison, so consider them all at the equivalent of IQ1). Innovation + BT was 618 - slightly more than half again, right? GS+BT was 810. And if you have a higher IQ stack, you'll still add about that 200 (using my example numbers) thanks to Innovation, but GS will be a lot bigger an increase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

GS is more important than Innovation.

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I'm aware of that, I merely made a mistake and ran myself out of CP, didn't have enough for GS+Brow. But I did have enough for Innov+Byregot's... barely.

Since I'm still rather new to higher level crafting (last time I did much crafting other than Ixal/Moogle quests was way back in the 40s), I keep making mistakes because I get distracted or I forget something etc.

Ok. You'll get better with practice.

If you have all your classes leveled to at least 50 One suggestion I might add is copying all your hotbars to those other jobs uniformly.

If it's controller it's /chotbar (cross hotbar)

For PC (mouse/keyboard) users use /hotbar

The syntax say for copying your Culinarian 1 hotbar to Weaver would be for example

/hotbar copy CUL 1 WVR 1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

If you have all your classes leveled to at least 50 One suggestion I might add is copying all your hotbars to those other jobs uniformly.

If it's controller it's /chotbar (cross hotbar)

For PC (mouse/keyboard) users use /hotbar

The syntax say for copying your Culinarian 1 hotbar to Weaver would be for example

/hotbar copy CUL 1 WVR 1

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Ahh. I never knew about This, lol. But yes that would help a bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Basically the rotation I'm using for this one is...

MM
CZ
IQ (if I don't forget the stupid thing lol)
SH2
WN
HT2 x 4
CS2 x3 (CZ in the middle of this when it wears off)
Mend2
CS2 (This and the above step can be switched)
SH2
HTx5
SH2
Innov
GS
Blessing (which is overkill, I need like 1500-2000 Quality to max, it gives me 5000+)
CS2

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MM on first step? Is that a Master's Mend or Maker's Mark? Either way, it seems like a mistake there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

SH2
Innov
GS
Blessing
CS2

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Concerning the finisher phase, you're not the only person who uses this sequence of actions, which I believe could be slightly improved. In my opinion, unless you're planning to wrap another touch under the Innovation, it's better to execute GS before Innovation.

Why? Well, assuming you're using:
SH
Innov
GS
Blessing

If a Good pops before Innovation, the best you could do is Trick of Trade. And if a Good pops before GS, then again there's also not much you can do except Trick of Trade (because GS is stronger than a Good). Only if a Good arrives before Blessing, then you could use it for the Blessing.

However, if you use my recommended sequence of:
SH
GS
Innov
Ingen2 (only if you have the CP)
Blessing

If a Good pops before GS, the best you could do is Trick. But if a Good pops before Innov, then you can skip the Innov and immediately Blessing it. Good > Innov+Ingen2. Thus, this optimizes the result. If you took a Trick earlier, and now you have CP to push out an Ingen2, you can do that after the Innov. That gives another chance of baiting the Good condition for the Blessing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Though your rotations above assume Durability 80 instead of the 70 that most HW+ items have. But I suppose that's an easy enough fix, simply remove 1 of the basic touches and it'd still surely work.

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Well, things supposed to get more and more difficult when leveling up, so I wouldn't just remove a touch... I would worry that there's not enough power.
Instead, I'd recommend using Manipulation in this case to substitute WN. It will cost you 32 more CP, but it'll give you that 1 extra touch to reach IQ7.

As for the comparison between Manip and Master's Mend, they're essentially very similar... Both give you 30 extra durab. Actually, both skills are not optimized for 70 or 80 durab items, as they're CP-heavy regard the amount of durab you can gain out of them. Master's Mend II and Waste Not are slightly more CP efficient. But if you do need more durab than WN could give you, or if you cannot afford 160 CP for MM2, then the use of Manip or MM in 80/70 durab items can be considered.

Despite the similarities, there are also some significant differences especially if you use them for 40 (or 35 durab) items:
(1) Since MM replenishes 30 durab, it has to be used when durab is 10 (or 5). In contrast, Manip has more flexibility that it can be used at any given durab (but minimum or maximum is not recommended, it is recommended to be used at 20 or 30 durab).
(2) In contrast to MM, if you use Manip at 10 durab (or less), your next step cannot be a durab consuming step, or your durab will fall to zero before Manip tries to restore 10 durab. This will result in the item botching. Thus, if you intend to use Manip at 10 durab, you gotta be prepared to use an action that does not consume durab, so that durab will float back up to 20 after your next action.
(3) Manip cost 4 less CP, but requires a cross class skill slot.

Because of these differences, I highly recommend using Manip over MM when dealing with 40 (or 35 durab) items. Always activate Manip when durab is in the middle. Why use Manip over MM? Firstly, it is more CP efficient. Secondly, if you encounter an Excellent condition at 10 durab, you can't utilize it for touch. But if you are at 20 durab and are about to use Manip, you may still touch on that step to utilize the Excellent, let durab fall to 10, then use MM (instead of Manip) to recover from 10 durab.

Concerning the little details of utilizing these skills, I remember documenting them in my pre-historic guide (http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/ff14-ad...ie-tsukino.39/). That guide is a fossil right now. But Chapter 10 to 12 may still be of use to rising crafters like yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

If you have all your classes leveled to at least 50 One suggestion I might add is copying all your hotbars to those other jobs uniformly.

If it's controller it's /chotbar (cross hotbar)

For PC (mouse/keyboard) users use /hotbar

The syntax say for copying your Culinarian 1 hotbar to Weaver would be for example

/hotbar copy CUL 1 WVR 1

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I didn't know you could use macro to copy buttons! This is pretty awesome! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

MM on first step? Is that a Master's Mend or Maker's Mark? Either way, it seems like a mistake there...

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I'd figured it was neither one, but the other MM : Muscle Memory. In which case, that's the only place you can put it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

I'd figured it was neither one, but the other MM : Muscle Memory. In which case, that's the only place you can put it.

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Ah, stupid me. Should have thought of that!

Sorry, I meant Muscle Memory. Though after some analysis, Muscle Memory did not decrease the number of CSII's that are needed to complete it, so meh.