What if MCH was a full blown pet class?

For example, the turret became a permanent pet that followed you around. Like permanent pets, it could still be ordered to move to a location and stay there, but this would also give it a pet bar with abilities that extend beyond just auto attacking, overloading, and exploding on cue.

If there's any class that badly needs a near complete overhaul, it's MCH. Having the turret follow you around would also make it less of a hassle for doing things like PotD or dungeons where the tank is pulling tons of mobs and charging ahead.

I'm not for or against, but just to say I believe people playing Machinist don't expect a pet class, but more like a Gunslinger. Which is why the turret is fine, design wise. It may be the right mix between the pet class and what people actually expect to play as Gunslinger.

It would be awesome if mch can place 2 turrets at the same time and has a skill that combine both turret and transform into KNIGHT autoturret that do higher damage and self-destruct at the end for 1k potency or something.

Yes, and then 3 machinists would each use one of the 3 power rangers poses and if they are well sync, they will summon a Megazord ;)

They don't need to be a "pet" class. However, it'd be nice if it'd follow me when I'm not in combat, and if they'd move in range of whatever target I'm targetting. Specially when a tank goes to dodge an AOE and never comes back :(.

Lastly, I think when I blow up a turret, it should only block THAT turret from being ressummoned for 30 seconds. I should still be allowed to use the other :(

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

If there's any class that badly needs a near complete overhaul, it's MCH. Having the turret follow you around would also make it less of a hassle for doing things like PotD or dungeons where the tank is pulling tons of mobs and charging ahead.

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MCHs gameplay is fine (Perhaps a revert back to 10 heat but still). It's the damage and support that need buffing.

MCHromancer?

I would like to see, if MCH support was expanded more, the addition of utility drones like heal drones and the like.
But as a pure DPS class i wouldn't bother with drones honestly, pet damage always ends up abysmal in most MMOs; I would rather they expand upon gun attachments and rework the barrel system.

While MCH's turret is incredibly underutilized, I'd rather not see it be made into a pet class (let alone a pet class in this game's current design, see SMN pet interactions and devotion)

Honestly the best gunslinger/ mechanist I've ever seen was from a game called Dungeon Fighter Online. The character was a shooter with various guns, flamethrower, and stuff but also called out various robots to come out and do temporary actions. Like a little wind up bot would come out and blow up near the nearest enemy or a flying bot would come by and shoot at your target for a few seconds. In the higher levels you could call down these mechs to really kick ass for like 45 seconds (much like the Bahamut egi for summoners). If mechanist was like this, id be playing it for sure despite its failings.

I'd love to see more done on the tech/machine side of the MCH job (double "Pawn" turret deployment, a return of Promotion for a secondary mode of sorts, etc.), but can't exactly say I'd want it turned into a full blown pet class. They really under-represent the idea that MCHs are gunfighters that use the most advanced technology in Eorzea, though the Deathlocke and the new Creation tome weapon are a step in the right direction as far as weapon design.

I really would like to see more "machine" in Machinist.

Here is a link to what i was talking about. Im not saying to copy pasta by no means as i do want FFXIV Mechanist to have its own identity. That said, it would be cool to have the class feel more like a mechanist that.....ya know, builds all kinds of stuff to actively help them fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N47MkOMIQ

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I really would like to see more "machine" in Machinist.

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That's why I toyed with the idea of a pet class.

Turrets feel like fire and forget DoTs instead of machines we manipulate as part of the core of the class.

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Originally Posted by Jafar_Aldurah

Honestly the best gunslinger/ mechanist I've ever seen was from a game called Dungeon Fighter Online. The character was a shooter with various guns, flamethrower, and stuff but also called out various robots to come out and do temporary actions. Like a little wind up bot would come out and blow up near the nearest enemy or a flying bot would come by and shoot at your target for a few seconds. In the higher levels you could call down these mechs to really kick ass for like 45 seconds (much like the Bahamut egi for summoners). If mechanist was like this, id be playing it for sure despite its failings.

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That sounds AMAZING, actually.

Wildstar's "Engineer" would also be a pretty good example of a class that uses machines to fight (it actually has two permanent robot pets and can tank).

Thinking about it some more, I really do love the chess theme MCH originally had, and there's definitely room to play with that too.

A Knight turret could provide a minor defensive buff/shield to the party, while Promotion could greatly enhance a turret to "Queen" with an appropriate offensive/defensive application. Give the turret a "Checkmate" ability to provide a % damage increase for the party (like a reverse Hypercharge) that uses MP (effectively a MCH Foe's Requiem).

Come on SE, there's a LOT more you can do with MCH than some convoluted heat management system.

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Originally Posted by Xenohart

when a tank goes to dodge an AOE and never comes back :(

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Something about this line just feels so hilarious... The universal emotions, the incredibly niche situation...

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Originally Posted by Jafar_Aldurah

Here is a link to what i was talking about. Im not saying to copy pasta by no means as i do want FFXIV Mechanist to have its own identity. That said, it would be cool to have the class feel more like a mechanist that.....ya know, builds all kinds of stuff to actively help them fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N47MkOMIQ

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I'm a little too distracted by this 'Mechanist' fighting in a true bunny suit?

Seriously though, I'd still like the master itself to have more prominence than shown here. To me, a temporary pet that moves across an area and fires at enemies within its short range is no different than, say, a wide, slow-moving projectile linear AoE. That may be a step up from the auto-swapping DoT gameplay of current turrets, but it doesn't feel any more "pet" than our current turrets do. They are still capable of only one procedure, and have no dynamics of their own.

Compare that, for instance, to each pet having its own mana and heat pool (the latter gained from attacks, damage taken, and ability use, and gradually damage the turret at higher levels while increasing its attack speed) and abilities each with mana costs and slight HP that cool over time, allowing for rapid fire but at cost to sustainable damage, where each of those abilities also has stacking or ramping effectiveness, synergizing both with itself and you, the master. A Rook Turret, for instance, could have five simple skills, Reposition, Return, Salvo, Discharge, and Sacrifice. Reposition is as one would expect, allowing rapid movement via side-thrusters and the central propeller without interrupting attacks; Return returns the turret, to allow you to summon something else; Salvo fires a flurry of attacks, each benefiting from Rook's Tracer Fire trait, increasing crit and direct hit chance of itself and the Machinist for each crit or direct hit landed; Discharge causes the turret to raise up, vertical to horizontal, and fire a gauss round down its length for heavy damage based on heat; Sacrifice launches the Rook as a rocket, dealing linear AoE damage at self-damage, circular around the enemy that destroys it, and conical damage behind said target. The time it takes a particular turret to be ready to be swapped back in is based on its HP missing when unsummoned. Normally, you can choose to resummon it before it has been returned to maximum HP, but it will come at logarithmic (slight) stat loss. If the turret is destroyed completely, it you cannot rush its return.

In that way you actually have something to build windows around, both in microrotation and macrorotation. A Bishop turret could take this a different route, passively generating Heat and discharging mana over time, equipped with abilities such as Overflow (splashes nearby enemies to cause them to take flat bonus damage from magical attacks dealt by the Machinist, turned into a powerful DoT if ignited) and Compression (increases Heat to regenerate mana, also drawing in nearby enemies), with a standard self-circular AoE Sacrifice (that also paints all affected enemies with Aetherochemical Spill, causing bonus damage taken).

You could go further with the various turrets by changing Gauss Barrel into Gauss Accelerator, a turret type that hovers between you and your target to increase the damage of shots fired down it. It can gradually expand, requiring additional range to be taken advantage of, until you can jump through it to launch yourself across the room.

In place of the Gauss Barrel attachment, allow for Heat Capacitor, which stores the heat built by your gun (from starter level onward) to allow for additional windows of burst (returning the stored Heat at will) or Flamethrower at will (a reward, rather than a shoddy build-up gimmick). Or keep the Gauss Barrel, but let it actually do something "gauss-like", and perhaps making Gauss Round and/or Ricochet its reward in place of Flamethrower.

Just my few cents.

I just want more party buffs or enemy debuffs on my turrets...and different ones for Rook vs Bishop.

Include turret damage in Wildfire.

Separate the Hypercharge damage & debuff into two abilities.

Add abilities to buff crit chance, DH chance, skill speed; debuffs enemy crit, accuracy...

Reward me for interacting with my turret!

When I hear Machinist, I think of gadgets and toys. With 4.0 I can see them heading in that direction. Exploding turret, flamethrower, enhanced versions of the shots now has gadgets aiding (visually) with an attack. I think they should continue building on this theme. Being a pet job? I don't think that would fit it.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I really would like to see more "machine" in Machinist.

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While I know this version of Mch is based on the FF Tactics version it wouldn't hurt to throw in Edgar's tools from FF6. Things like a chainsaw, drill, auto-crossbow, and bio-blaster.

I'm all for MCH becoming PUP. It would follow suit with being the most laughably useless job for atleast the next expansion or so.

I'd probably drop it in a new York minute. Pet classes are rarely fun in games. I don't mind having more abilities to interact with said turret, but making it a pet? No thank you.

Full pet class? No. Please not.

But I would like to have different turrets, guns and stuff.

An idea could be, that you can switch between different firearms as long as you have enough ammunition for them. You got your standard rifle for standard attacks. But you can switch to dual guns where you can do much faster attacks, but need to be in melee range. You can also use a grenade launcher for AoE-attacks, which consumes more of your ammunition. And you have a light machine gun, which uses all of you ammunition for a single, massive attack for 10s (like the flamethrower, but kinda different). Or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I'd probably drop it in a new York minute. Pet classes are rarely fun in games.

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Beast Mastery Hunter and Warlock in WoW are both amazing pet classes, and SCH was amazing in 3.X before they gutted it.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Beast Mastery Hunter and Warlock in WoW are both amazing pet classes, and SCH was amazing in 3.X before they gutted it.

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SMN can hardly be considered a pet class in 3.0 though, considering that all of their new abilties in HW were not associated with the pet.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Beast Mastery Hunter and Warlock in WoW are both amazing pet classes, and SCH was amazing in 3.X before they gutted it.

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SCH was OP in 3.X, and it wasn't because of their pet. It was because they could sit in CS all the time and spam DPS. SCH is pretty much the same as Symmetra in OW, a mislabeled job, where Symmetra's kit better suits a Defense hero but she's labeled a support, and SCH's kit better suits a DPS but it's labeled a healer, IMHO, in 3.X. Haven't played WoW.

SE had no idea how to "fix" Astro's Spear Card and instead changed it's effect entirely from "coold down reduction" to "crit buff". So... who knows what SE will do.