Rezzing

Why is it that so many of my co-healers simply ignore the dead in the party? Lately, I'm finding a good 70 ~ 80% of my co-healers simply do not rez anyone -- or only the co-healer or tanks. Has anyone else noticed this pattern?

I've been noticing this a lot more lately. I healed half a dozen Lakshmi Ex, as well as multiple runs of Omega on the various bosses (bad RNG), with different healers each time. And none of them rezzed anyone. I'm seeing things like Lakshmi Ex enrage because I can't rez people fast enough. I'm a healer main. I understand the issues surrounding rezzing and mana and hard casting. Even when I know a co-healer has SC, and I know it must be off CD (because I saw the healer use it more than a minute ago), they still don't rez.

Now, I know that one dead DPS isn't going to push the bosses to enrage. There's other issues at hand, but it isn't being helped by a healer who refuses to rez people. I just see them, sitting on nearly full MP (while I'm nearly OOM) and they're just happily DPSing away. No damage is coming in. They have time to hard cast rez, if their SC is on CD or they didn't take it. But they don't.

Why? Am I just encountering a ton of DPS mains in their off classes?

You have to remember you don't always have to sit on swiftcast just for raise purposes.


For normal content, I proactively use swiftcast for things like Medica II for easier movement or mechanics, and it also keeps damage up. The risk if someone dies and other healer not having chance to handle the situation is low. If someone dies in the time span I make a judgement call if we'll be fine until it's back up, or not safe to hard rez until certain mechanics pass, etc. Also. if there is a RDM/SMN in the party I like to make them handle that stuff at that point. Most of the time I let the other healer handle it because they don't seem to do anything but heal (sad). Since there is no more excuses for a healer not having swiftcast in Stormblood, you can tell if they are just sitting on the skill or not.

Savage/Extreme primal/traps: I'll just raise whenever I can. Depending on the clear/farm group might not be aggressive with proactive-swiftcast because of certain troublemakers. But if group isn't so bad, i'll do the above and not sit on Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by technole

You have to remember you don't always have to sit on swiftcast just for raise purposes.

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Yup, it's likely they're waiting for SC to come up or alternatively, waiting for a RDM or SMN to raise (SMN at least has no use for SC in rotation anymore so it can be reserved for raises, also no MP issues).

Also, if you're wiping in that situation, it's not because you can't raise fast enough, it's because that many people are messing up and dying in the first place. Don't blame yourself or your cohealer for that.

I can think of a couple of (possible) reasons

-Their swiftcast is on cooldown
-They are low on MP
-The dead person or persons die so much they're a waste of MP anyway
-There are RDM/SMNs in the party and they think it's their duty to help out with rezzes
-You're occupying the "off healer" slot so the task of getting people back up should be handled by YOU
-You're occupying the "main healer" slot so the task of rezzing should be left up to YOU, so they can dedicate all their time and attention to do one button DPS

Those are all things I have encountered at one point or another - althout they're really not frequent enough to be bothersome (the swiftcast on CD is the one I encounter most frequently and it happens to me too, so.).

It's one of THOSE things you might see at some point that are midly annoying - among tanks fighting for aggro, people sitting in aoes for no apparent reason, pets on sic etc. Can happen anytime, has ALWAYS happened and probably won't ever stop occurring.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

-There are RDM/SMNs in the party and they think it's their duty to help out with rezzes

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Is there a reason for RDM or SMN (the latter with swiftcast off cd) not to raise? Genuine question.

I'd guess that a hardcasted healer raise plus the mp cost on an mp constrained party member costs more dps in the long run than a single Veraero/thunder (and it increases the risk for the party).

Took me a while to get good at raising people. I'm on controller and when I started I would click swiftcast and raise so quick together that the rez wouldn't stick and I'd end up wasting SC on a spell I didn't intend it for. That's become far less of an issue now, but other reasons I may not rez / wait to rez include:

-- low mp / thin air on cooldown (thin air can cover for low mp if it's up)
-- I'm busy dodging a mechanic or recovering the group from a mechanic
-- I know a mechanic is about to go off and me not getting hit by that is more important
-- The same person keeps dying to the same stupid thing over and over (we need a wipe so they can be given instructions...)
-- More than one person died and the person I did rez had higher priority than the one I didn't. (sorry dps)
-- I'm holding off on rezzing until I get a safe opening to do so.

Since I have vision issues and can't always easily tell what my co-healer or other players are doing, at times I will leave a few second delay to make sure someone else doesn't already have the rez covered, leaving me to refill health once the person gets up.

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

Is there a reason for RDM or SMN (the latter with swiftcast off cd) not to raise? Genuine question.

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:^) Wrote the longest damn response I could think of for this only to have my internet crap on me harder then a pigeon with the runs. So.

In any of the following cases:
-24 mans with people dropping like flies
-My MP is depleted
-Swiftcast is on cooldown
-Crapton of people dead in a team
-Solo healing
-Mana shift on CD and any of the above happen

Then yes, I will be thankful and even expectant of SMN/RDM rez.
In most other circumstances, though - well I will still be thankful, but I would honestly prefer their MP to be directed toward firing at stuff.

/p <recast.Swiftcast> Swiftcast

Will tell your party members the time left on your swiftcast. Just put it as a button. If you don't want an extra button to add to your arsenal, just make it into one button:

/p <recast.Swiftcast> Swiftcast
/ac "Swiftcast"

This will call out the time remaining and then try to use it

Only time I let someone stay dead is when they've screwed mechanics so many times, it's better to leave them dead; Susano's lightning mechanic being my most recent trigger.

I've even tried to alleviate some of the screw ups by dragging people over the divide with rescue, just to receive hate mail about why I dragged them to get hit by "my" lightning, of which I send them 2 video links, 1 of them having lightning and a second one to an ophthalmologist advertisement so they can get their tunnel vision checked.

Fun times all around.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

It's one of THOSE things you might see at some point that are midly annoying - among tanks fighting for aggro, people sitting in aoes for no apparent reason, pets on sic etc. Can happen anytime, has ALWAYS happened and probably won't ever stop occurring.

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Well yes. But it's happening in very damn raid group I get into. As I said, the co-healers all had full MP, no RDM/SMNs were in half the parties I was in, and if you can't find a time to hard cast rez in Lakshmi Ex, then you're a terrible healer.

That's the thing. It was just a mild annoyance. I'd get into a party with a healer like this once in a while. But lately it's been every, goddamn party for the past month. In the (around) 15 different groups I was in last night with different co-healers each time, ZERO rezzed anyone besides me and there were deaths (sometimes multiple deaths) in each group. It stops being mildly annoying when every co-healer you get refuses to rez anyone and become down right frustrating. You see that person with FULL MP, just DPSing away, without a care in the world, and there are dead people in the party. As I said, you can guess this person has SC up. Nothing that has happened thus far has warranted the use of it. And, even if it is down, there is no in coming damage and your co-healer can handle the tanks should the auto attacks crit.

When did leaving your healing buddy to rez everyone become a thing?

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Originally Posted by Alisi

Why is it that so many of my co-healers simply ignore the dead in the party? Lately, I'm finding a good 70 ~ 80% of my co-healers simply do not rez anyone -- or only the co-healer or tanks. Has anyone else noticed this pattern?

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Generally I raise people when I feel it's safe to do so.

To contradict your argument I'm going to ask why do so many healers raise people the instant they go down?
Knowing that 4 times out of 5 that dead person is going to accept that raise straight away and then instantly die again to the next mechanic...

Even my co healers won't get raised straight away many times in hw content my co healer would go down and might stay down for upto a minute simply because getting them up is low on my list of priorities at that particular moment.

Not sure how accurate it is now in 4.0. As my highest healer is currently 66. But in 3.0 it often depended on the healers jobs. If your party had a scholar and whm for example then generally the scholar did the raising because they're mp was virtually infinite and a whms mp was a lot more limited. Whms tossing out raises would run out of mp very quickly. Scholars could raise several times and not even dent there mp pools

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Originally Posted by Alisi

When did leaving your healing buddy to rez everyone become a thing?

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I can't really try to justify this, or to find one single fitting explanation as I don't know the full circumstances - could be anything, really.

It COULD be SC, though. If they're mostly DPSing then it's likely that, as people before my post said, that they weren't sitting on SC (instead using it for DPS, shielding etc.), and the fight is reasonably easy that you can get away with waiting some 20 secs for SC to be back up rather than bothering to hard cast. Done this myself, to be honest :P If, in the mean time, your MH rezzed the downed person, well - nice bonus, time to go back to DPSing!

If that was the case though and they had it on CD - then xNewbx's macro suggestion is actually really cool, if nothing else then at least to let your team what's up with you not rezzing people (in fact thanks, I'm now stealing this macro for my own use :D )

@Dzian - yeah, good one, that's also a thing. Rezzing people right before mechanics/heavy inc damage is more risky than it's worth. As for the "infinite MP for SCHs" part, though, the only thing I've got to ask is if you've ever healed a messy 24 man, because no MP pool is infinite in those :P

Yup I've had this happen to me a lot the past few days in the omega savage duties, both WHMs and SCHs just not rezzing (I play AST). I even had one run where I rezzed every single death myself and low and behold I was still able to somehow manage my mana and DPS while the other healer was sitting on 25%~

Wtf is going on? It's not even as if im beating them to it every time. If I was the last healer to rez I will give a grace period to the other healer before I attempt to do it myself, but nope they're just standing their in a mid cast broil or stone...

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

Is there a reason for RDM or SMN (the latter with swiftcast off cd) not to raise? Genuine question..

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Your answer is, kinda. I can only speak as a SMN as I don't have RDM lvld yet. Now that our pets die easily and we can't heal them some of us save our swiftcast for recasting our egis. Also we are there to DPS not cover for healers who think it's everyone's job but their own to heal/raise like the second poster in this thread. If my swiftcast is up and my pet isn't dying, I'll raise people to save the healers the mp. Since I'm also a WHM I have swiftcast raise macro'd anyway and it's easy enough to pop the SMN raise into the macro. Not all SMNs have this, and I'm sure some are distracted by it because it messes up their rotation. No one's perfect.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

To contradict your argument I'm going to ask why do so many healers raise people the instant they go down?
Knowing that 4 times out of 5 that dead person is going to accept that raise straight away and then instantly die again to the next mechanic...

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I don't mean that I expect instant rez or that I expect my co-healers to rez when the mechanics of the fight don't allow it. Hell, for that matter, I give new healers a pass if it's their first time healing a fight. I don't expect my co-healer to have MP to rez if that healer has none. I don't expect SC to magically come off CD at my whim.

None of those. I'm talking about the people don't don't rez anyone. Regardless of the situation. They sit on nearly full MP and just DPS while two of the people are dead. I mean, if two or more people are dead, WTF is my co-healer doing DPSing? A healer doing DPS is all good and well, but it's not going to match a DPS's DPS. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Fealow

Wtf is going on?

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Thank you. It feels so crazy to even say this aloud. I held back a bit because I figured I must be the crazy one but I started to actually watch for this and have been finding it happening more and more frequently.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Also we are there to DPS not cover for healers who think it's everyone's job but their own to heal/raise like the second poster in this thread.

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I don't think the colour of your job icon has much to do with it. It's about the best tool for the job. If a RDM popping an instant raise costs the party less dps than a healer hardcasting then the RDM should do it.

What I'm not sure about is the mp pool of SMN/RDM because I haven't played them at 70. If raising will cause these jobs to run out of mp that is obviously a huge dps loss. So my question really was "what is the opportunity cost of a SMN/RDM raising"? Is it just one GCD or does the mp factor in too?

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

So my question really was "what is the opportunity cost of a SMN/RDM raising"? Is it just one GCD or does the mp factor in too?

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SMN at least has no MP issues whatsoever, and can easily save swiftcast for raise since it's not needed in their rotation anymore.

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Originally Posted by Taika

SMN at least has no MP issues whatsoever, and can easily save swiftcast for raise since it's not needed in their rotation anymore.

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Yes and no. SMNs can push more DPS by dumping mana(Ruin 3 out of DWT), which is also why Lucid is a great cross skill for them. But knowing when to stop and conserve is a big deal, especially when they are expected to rez.