Please Remove The Time Limits On Current And Future Dungeons.

The time limits on dungeon are unnecessary, and would make playing them alot more fun.

Examples Below.

The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak.

After clearing one boss, you have to restart the whole dungeon just to fight another. I think if we were able to fight all bosses without restarting would be for the best. It would be kool to actually stay in the dungeon and tackle one boss after another.

If a party couldnt clear this dungeon, im sure it wouldnt be because of the time limit, so why have it?

Dzemael Darkhold

You run through all enemies and get to a boss, now lets say you die and return from the start of the dungeon, you have to do it all over again anyway, so whats the point of the time limit? The time limit just makes players leave and come back in just to reset the timer, which is unnecessary.

My Thoughts

Im just saying the game would benefit more if the time limits on dungeons were gone. I think players would like to feel a sense of immersion in dungeons. Time limits just make players skip content and try to take the fastest routes through it instead of enjoying it, ala Darkhold.

I really hope time limits of dungeons are done away with, for the current, and future dungeons.

If a party couldnt clear A dungeon, im sure it wouldnt be because of the time limit, it would because of the Difficulty, and thats the way it should be.

Time limits do not equal difficulty, it equals speed running through content instead of actually enjoying it.

Also, light parties or fewer would actually be able to clear it, just alot slower if there wasnt a time limit. Im sure there are alot of players out there that want to show they can duo a dungeon right up :), this can be possible without a time limit.

Thoughts?

/thread immediately.

Take it away, but remove any chances of drops after a certain time.

At the risk of sounding like a douche, shouldn't be rewarding people for under performing.

EDIT: And if you're so confident that you can duo it, you probably already have the drops so it won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Rau

Take it away, but remove any chances of drops after a certain time.

At the risk of sounding like a douche, shouldn't be rewarding people for under performing.

EDIT: And if you're so confident that you can duo it, you probably already have the drops so it won't matter.

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Do you like the time limits? if so, why?

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Do you like the time limits? if so, why?

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Because I firmly believe that people should be rewarded for performing well. Getting a speedrun drop for the Darkhold was the most fulfilling moment in this game so far for me.

If you want to go through the dungeon at your own pace, go right ahead. There shouldn't be a time limit.
However, the game should be rewarding skillful play (or something vaguely similar to it), instead of just clearing a room, wiping, and walking back repeatedly.

Time limits are a fantastic way of raising the difficulty of any given event while balancing the gap between hardcore and casual players.

Haters gonna hate.

We've dungeons/contents without timelimits, Not everything have to be without timelimit.

I really don't care either way.

First time that came to my mind about time limits is that they tip the game a bit more towards class stacking, but one second later I decided class stacking is just a symptom of a deeper problem.

I think that at the moment time limits don't have any effect on gameplay and there is also the technical side. Running an instance takes computational resources, having no time limits would mean that a party can go afk inside a dungeon and keep the instance alive forever.

First point of Toto-rak, no you're supposed to have 3 seperate methods in clearing the dungeon and facing 3 different bosses, not doing them all in one go. It's also the method that SW:TOR is doing to prolong their instance.

I like time limits.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

I really don't care either way.

First time that came to my mind about time limits is that they tip the game a bit more towards class stacking, but one second later I decided class stacking is just a symptom of a deeper problem.

I think that at the moment time limits don't have any effect on gameplay and there is also the technical side. Running an instance takes computational resources, having no time limits would mean that a party can go afk inside a dungeon and keep the instance alive forever.

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Right, class stacking is a symptom of Square's inability to properly balance their classes. I think until Square figures out how to do so since every patch there is a flavor of the month overpowered class, time limits should be removed to allow players who wish to use the class they want to use to not have to worry about it.

I agree with the OP, the party still has to be skilled enough to get through the dungeon, and if you're with a bunch of unskilled players, you're going to wipe, regardless of time limit or not. And as OP pointed out, the time limit is resettable in Dzmael and a longer time limit or a removed one would allow a party in Toto-rak to be able to take on more content at once.

Elitists would argue that removing the time limit would lower the bar, but people who clear Dzmael faster will be able to access it more often, so I don't think that's much of an issue either. It will simply allow more players with sub-optimal character classes to be able to play it, as you still need a certain modicum of skill to prevent your party from wiping in Dzmael. Those who clear ir faster will be able to re-enter it faster, and those who are playing the suboptimal classes for this dungeon are probably the types of players (such as I) who just want to experience the content and see how it's like - not to spam it repeatedly.

Yeah, uhh, that isn't a proper benefit. Nobody will buy it.

If you want to drive your own agenda you need to provide something better for those getting the short end of the stick.

I agree with the OP. After they add some more instanced dungeons, it's fine if they put time limits on some so those who like that kind of challenge can experience it. But as it stands, we only have two instanced dungeons and they're all timed.

This completely negates using them as leveling content, as people will skip whatever trash they can and go straight to the bosses.

Despite Yoshi-P's new mission statement of having a variety of leveling options, the dev team keeps completely killing all options but grind party camps.

Couldn't agree more, time limit should be remove. Difficult of Instances should not base on time limit at all, that is just plain dumb and lazy work for developer. Take Dzemael Darkhold for example. They put a whole lot of Elite Mob in the Instances, but you can just run through really fast making them disappeared. You don't even need to kill any of them, running through and touching stuff. I don't understand people ideas of fun and enjoyment here because simply put this is not fun to do. Do you feel you accomplish something during a speed run? Because all you did was run through all the content the developer put in in 10 - 15 minutes then kill the boss at the end for drop. Do you want all the Instances to be like this? Rush through all the content to get through the last boss?

Instances should be fun and challenging, killing Elite and side boss on the way. Make it long, challenging and worthwhile. Tell me any MMORPG where Instances have time limit, and you touch stuff for the mob to disappear? Oh I just beat an Instances I feel so proud of because I run through it really fast, skipping every mob on the way. Don't people not understand if they make all Instances like this then everybody is using the same tactic? There is no Challenge here at all because you didn't do anything except skip through all the mobs.

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They put a whole lot of Elite Mob in the Instances, but you can just run through really fast making them disappeared

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This has nothing to do with the time limit in place. Lol'd.

I agree with OP.

Also what could work is adding Instances like Dynamis (ffxi), where as you continue through you can get time extenders so you can remain in the instance longer to get more of it accomplished.

Having a variety of differant types of Instances I think would be most apropriate, so everyone can enjoy all the differant types and they wont just be a loop of the same instance with differant mobs and areas.
Have your timers, your no-timers and your time extenders. I think we can all agree on that.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This has nothing to do with the time limit in place. Lol'd.

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Well it obviously what the developer want you to do anyway. Who would stop and kill any of the Elite Mob when you can make it disappear to save time? If there is no time limit, they wouldn't put in artifact to touch to make the mob disappeared.

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Originally Posted by Darkrose

Well it obviously what the developer want you to do anyway. Who would stop and kill any of the Elite Mob when you can make it disappear to save time? If there is no time limit, they wouldn't put in artifact to touch to make the mob disappeared.

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People that wants to exp at dzemael?

Agree with the OP, reason DH is such a mess is because people don't clear the dungeon they just train it.

Good example is the guy above who said the most rewarding aspect of the game was a speed run through DH and yet that involved ignoring the majority of the trash mobs and zerging the bosses with archers, nothing rewarding about that IMO.

Personally I think for DH they should remove the actual dungeon timer and only make bosses pop after you have cleared the area of monsters, then have the actually boss have an enrage timer.

Also please remove the minimum pt-size limit. With this population the requirements are just too much for many of of the few of us.

If they removed the timer, wouldn't that allow players/Linkshells to completely occupy or 'hold' the dungeon so that no more can enter? If this is the case, what's to stop any player with an alt character entering and deliberately leaving themselves inside to keep others out?

I disagree with removing Time Limits. Maybe you can remove it in Future Content, but when that content is "adjusted" so that It could go "Without" Time Limit.

Imagine DH without Time Limit, people could kill all the mobs, and leave just the boss. Then they re-buff, re-group, etc and Fight the Boss. If they die, they can just return to entrance, and do it again endlessly, without having to fight the mobs and can zerg the boss even more than what we already can. Where is the "Risk=Reward" in that? I think Time Limit plays out nicely with what the content we have. (That has Time Limit)

I'd rather have SE work on New Instanced Dungeon/Instanced Content rather than adding/removing unnecesary things on the old ones. Only Problem I see on contents from such Areas(DH, Thousand Maws, Faction Gears, etc) are how they're very undermined compared to Single-Double+ stacked Materia Gear.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

If they removed the timer, wouldn't that allow players/Linkshells to completely occupy or 'hold' the dungeon so that no more can enter? If this is the case, what's to stop any player with an alt character entering and deliberately leaving themselves inside to keep others out?

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I'm sure SE won't have problem creating multiple Instances for many group. If server cost is an issue, they can do a hidden timer, let say 2 hours you automatic get kick out for Instances. Just don't make it if you rush through really fast you get better reward. I feel that is not challenge or fun, more like frustration and stressful.

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Originally Posted by Anima

I disagree with removing Time Limits. Maybe you can remove it in Future Content, but when that content is "adjusted" so that It could go "Without" Time Limit.

Imagine DH without Time Limit, people could kill all the mobs, and leave just the boss. Then they re-buff, re-group, etc and Fight the Boss. If they die, they can just return to entrance, and do it again endlessly, without having to fight the mobs and can zerg the boss even more than what we already can. Where is the "Risk=Reward" in that? I think Time Limit plays out nicely with what the content we have. (That has Time Limit)

I'd rather have SE work on New Instanced Dungeon/Instanced Content rather than adding/removing unnecesary things on the old ones. Only Problem I see on contents from such Areas(DH, Thousand Maws, Faction Gears, etc) are how they're very undermined compared to Single-Double+ stacked Materia Gear.

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This wouldn't happen because your Gear will be all broken and you need to repair it, repair also cost materials. I doubt everyone in the group have max out Crafting Job and carry tons of repair materials with them. Boss also get reset anyway, so let them try again if they wanted to, there is really no harm. Also, there is any different from exiting the Instances and going in again with time limit and no time limit anyway. It's the same thing. It basically the same thing. I just don't want SE to think that putting time limit in Instances = Challenging because it is not. If they put every time limit on instances, I will bet that people will just train and use the same tactic over and over again. Not only that, Instances will be quickly over due to people rushing. Also with time limit people will get upset very easily, well it because you always watching the clock rather then team work and helping everyone out. If you died too much, I will guarantee they will let your body lay there and rotted.

Agreed. Time limits are a totally stupid idea. Having extra rewards for a speed run i think is a good idea though, but if someone wants to take their time and spend 3 hours clearing the whole place, they should be allowed to.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

If they removed the timer, wouldn't that allow players/Linkshells to completely occupy or 'hold' the dungeon so that no more can enter? If this is the case, what's to stop any player with an alt character entering and deliberately leaving themselves inside to keep others out?

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Server should be able to keep as many instances alive as needed without much of a problem (there would be a theoritical limit of course, but unlikely to be reached), most games with instanced content you can stay in your instance and AFK all day if you want to, np.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

If they removed the timer, wouldn't that allow players/Linkshells to completely occupy or 'hold' the dungeon so that no more can enter? If this is the case, what's to stop any player with an alt character entering and deliberately leaving themselves inside to keep others out?

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This isn't FF11/Dynamis.

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Imagine DH without Time Limit, people could kill all the mobs, and leave just the boss. Then they re-buff, re-group, etc and Fight the Boss. If they die, they can just return to entrance, and do it again endlessly, without having to fight the mobs and can zerg the boss even more than what we already can. Where is the "Risk=Reward" in that? I think Time Limit plays out nicely with what the content we have. (That has Time Limit)

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What on earth that does't make sense, once you leave the instance to respawn the boss all the trash would respawn aswell.

As for failing and running straight back to the boss why is this a problem, if you took the time to clear the instance trash shouldn't respawn until you leave.

If you haven;t noticed the way DH works is that everyone runs diretly to the boss most of the time anyway.

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I'd rather have SE work on New Instanced Dungeon/Instanced Content rather than adding/removing unnecesary things on the old ones. Only Problem I see on contents from such Areas(DH, Thousand Maws, Faction Gears, etc) are how they're very undermined compared to Single-Double+ stacked Materia Gear.

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Yea just continue to add more useless content that people will do for a week non stop and then never bother with again right ?

I think its more important that SE give us an incentive to continue retrying content, like adding new bosses to exsisting dungeons, whilst making the instances more balanced at the same time.

I agree that the biggest problem stopping dungeons ever being worthwhile though is materia.

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Originally Posted by neizero

Agreed. Time limits are a totally stupid idea. Having extra rewards for a speed run i think is a good idea though, but if someone wants to take their time and spend 3 hours clearing the whole place, they should be allowed to.



Server should be able to keep as many instances alive as needed without much of a problem (there would be a theoritical limit of course, but unlikely to be reached), most games with instanced content you can stay in your instance and AFK all day if you want to, np.

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You do know there is a limit right? Many times after Darkhold was first released, we had to wait for groups to finish ahead of us.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

You do know there is a limit right? Many times after Darkhold was first released, we had to wait for groups to finish ahead of us.

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2.0 should solve this issue.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

2.0 should solve this issue.

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2.0? How are you justifying today's issues what may or may not be implemented until 2013?

Where did I justify anything, we are talking bout future changes and content aren't we ?

There is no excuse why you would be locked out of an instance due to population at least not on FF14's scale, but it is what it is, we all know the servers suck, I was simple saying come 2.0 it should be different.

Don't worry you have no problem of seeing what you mentioned any time soon, after the 6th the majority of players will be leaving.

We're talking about removing or not removing dungeon timers and the consequences of both, iirc. My point was that current timers should not be removed due to current constraints.

I agree with the OP sort of.

Time limits should continue to be one of two options we can select when entering any dungeon - the other option being no time limits.

That way hardcore players have a way to challenge themselves and compete with one another in the dungeons and casual players have a way to unwind and relax while having a good time with one another in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

We're talking about removing or not removing dungeon timers and the consequences of both, iirc. My point was that current timers should not be removed due to current constraints.

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If other MMORPG there can do no time limit on Instance, I'm sure SE can. SE is multi billion company and they can't hold a ton of Instances for group? I find that hard to believe. Even F2P game there is no time limit. Time limit is just very silly. We shouldn't have cripple and work with it if SE think their server can't handle it. The population for FFXIV is not even that high, what gonna happen next when it is high? Lower the time limit more to let more group in? How about 20 minutes to finish everything? The way I see it, if time limit and Instances continue to be like that even 2.0 will not save this game.

Hate to drop the FFXI card again but in the timed instances in there (Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul etc etc) I really enjoyed it when you were low on time for the last boss it brought the A-game out in members because they wanted to kill the boss and the rage fest after you kill the boss but time out before you can get drops is hilarious. Lets also not forget the awesome time out at 1% on bosses.

I would partly agree with this in that some dungeons should have no time limits and some should have them it makes it more difficult and adds stratagy to the dungeons, Nyzul on FFXI was the best example of this because the objectives were very specific and you had to make the choice based on the current objective wether it would be best to have one person wait to take you to the next floor to save the run or have everyone look for the objective.

I hope they add a Nyzul-esque dungeon to FFXIV because it was one of the best activities on FFXI imo.

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If other MMORPG there can do no time limit on Instance, I'm sure SE can.

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SE can also lock each race into lore-determined classes and restrict class change. Other MMO pull it off, why doesn't SE?

Because their system is better, that's why.

Keep the timers.

Last thing we need is a group of 8 botters entering DH or whatever and craft there all day and night LOL

Some content i would like to see retain timers some not so much.

Heck i think some timers nested with in untimed content could be interesting

The darkhold for example. If the majority of it was not timed but there was a timer for the Oger and Battral fights where timing out or full wiping resulted in a auto boot It could prove to be interesting.

I -love- the idea of specific 'speedrun' drops, or of speedruns increasing the overall drop rate. It's a good reward for competence.

I hate the idea of time limits on the overall dungeons, and wish sincerely that they would go away.

You can actually have your cake and eat it too, in this instance! (Heheh, instance.)

Pretty sure the main reason for timers is indeed preventing people from holding the dungeon. There isn't a "theoretical" limit to the number of instances, there actually is a number and timers + re-entry time help make sure people aren't abusing it.

Problem is, population is low as is interest, so it's really not an issue right now.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Hate to drop the FFXI card again but in the timed instances in there (Dynamis, Limbus, Nyzul etc etc) I really enjoyed it when you were low on time for the last boss it brought the A-game out in members because they wanted to kill the boss and the rage fest after you kill the boss but time out before you can get drops is hilarious. Lets also not forget the awesome time out at 1% on bosses.

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Yea because that would surely make people want to play the game more huh.

FF11 stockholm for the win.

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Originally Posted by Enyyx

Pretty sure the main reason for timers is indeed preventing people from holding the dungeon. There isn't a "theoretical" limit to the number of instances, there actually is a number and timers + re-entry time help make sure people aren't abusing it.

Problem is, population is low as is interest, so it's really not an issue right now.

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This should never be an issue if the dev team are competent at designing a good server structure.(obviously the current server is no good but the next one should be, especially if they want the content finder to work effectively)

Look at WoW which has hundreds of thousands of instances and raids going on all day long and they very rarely reach the limit.

Well, really. There is one big, gigantic problem on time limits. You completely skip all the content when you have a timer ticking on you.
Recently I did Toto-Rak for the first time, I had the major luck of having a party of L50s with endgame gear assisting my poor cute L25 noob tail, we were blazing fights so goddamn fast I didn't had time to land a single auto-attack with my LNC. I didn't even feel the boss fight so fast it rushed past. Yet, I didn't stop to read a single sign. I skipped past the moogle's text (hunted it in the chatscreen after we defeated the boss). We made a near-perfect run for the hardest boss, we missed exactly two photocells, which added about 5 minutes to our time spent. We finished with 20 minutes left. And you know what, i'm still goddamn curious about what the hell is going on I have no idea about what the inside of Toto-Rak is... The ACTUAL content, I skipped so we could finish it, and that's because we were on easy mode.

That said, I do not disagree with giving better prizes for people who ace a dungeon! Having a timer that determines the quality of your loot by the end would be pretty ace, but a timer that FORCES you to be booted out of the dungeon after a while will simply make you skip any actual content inside. (though it is a neat idea in that the developers force themselves to make a dungeon that can be completed in a decent amount of time if you don't dally)

So i'd be more for a timerless dungeon, or rather, one with a loot timer instead. Or if you REALLY need to make a dungeon with timers, do it plain and content-less because players are going to skip the goddamn content anyway.