4.05 MCH is Weak

Ok. So round two. I am here to explain why the new MCH changes are basically a wash and don't really add any significant damage to the class, still leaving it far behind the rest of the pack. I'm going to go down the list of changes and argue against or for them one by one. No whining, no QQ, just logical explanations of why I think that these changes are either good or bad.

First, Quick Reload no longer causing you to lose 10h when used. In a minute cycle between WF pre 4.05 you would lose 140 from ammo, 2x Reloads (60 heat lost) + 4x Quick Reload (80 heat lost). After 4.05 this has changed to 100 heat lost. This in of itself would have been fine, allowing for an extra cooldown between odd WFs and 2 cooldowns between even Wfs. But thats not how it works out, which goes to my next point.

Second heat reduction on ALL GCD skills. You went from generating 10 heat to 5 heat. This is not an issue its actually very good for new players trying to learn the job saving them from random overheats. Many would argue that you can't cooldown as much now. You need to understand cooldown is a 230 potency skill, the 123 combo avg potency is 230 potency. So losing cooldowns is not really a “loss”. While it was guaranteed damage, over the course of the fight the procs will even out enough to make up for any early losses you may have seen or vice versa.

So for the first two points, for me, its a mix of does not matter and pointless. The only people who had issues with 10 heat per GCD were people not used to the class. While the overheat mechanic is quite punishing to the uninitiated, once you got used to it, you stopped doing it randomly.

Third. Barrel Stabilizer. I know people are thinking soon as they saw this, YAY OVERHEAT EVERY WILDFIRE. Stop. Don't. Let me explain overheat and generally why it is “bad”. When you overheat you gain 10% damage for 10s, cool. But afterwards you lose 30 potency per GCD and 5% damage due to gauss barrel falling off. I'm sure someone will come to correct me, but lets get started with some basic napkin math. Lets say you get the overall highly favored CD323CD in your WF. That is 1255 potency. 1255 * 1.1 * 1.25 = 1725 (Overheated wildfire potency) vs 1255* 1.1 = 1568 (Non overheated wildfire potency). That is a 157 potency difference between the two. Cool a gain right? Lets continue. Now we come down to the -30 potency per gcd and -5% damage for 5 gcds. I'm pretty sure you can see where this is going. Before we even calculate the -5% dmg from autos and GCD you are already at -150 potency on your gain from those 5 GCDs. Yes, all that work to overheat, and you come out with a gain of 7 potency BEFORE calculating the 5% loss of gauss barrel. Do not let the change on barrel stabilizer con you into thinking that it is a gain to overheat every wf. It is a wash at best, a potential loss at worst. Overheat mechanic is best used before a phase change where you know boss will be gone or untargetable for an extended period of time minimizing the loss of not having GB up.

Fourth, 8% hot shot. I'm not even going to go in depth into this. Simply its not enough.

Finally, Overload. The only real gain and positive change MCH really received today. At 800 potency rook overload SHOULD always break even. If you crit or dhit, you have gotten a gain. The best part about overload is that in the opener you will use it right as POT/HC/TA is falling off, making it a very strong oGCD attack. It will always be a gain to use overload at the end of a HC/TA window (unless you know a phase change is soon), and now its an even better skill to use when you know boss will be gone for a while. Before it used to be 15s to break even, 18s to be a gain. Now its always worth to overload if boss will be gone for any period of time.

In conclusion, the changes are basically useless for anyone of skill with a MCH. The heat changes made entry into playing MCH a lot easier for new players. This is a good thing. But for the experienced this changed absolutely nothing for them. If anything it was more of an irritation. Overload buff is good, but they fell short with the hot shot buff. It simply just is not enough to raise current MCH damage to a respectable value. They are still bottom of the barrel and need some serious loving. Ok. So round two. I am here to explain why the new MCH changes are basically a wash and don't really add any significant damage to the class, still leaving it far behind the rest of the pack. I'm going to go down the list of changes and argue against or for them one by one. No whining, no QQ, just logical explanations of why I think that these changes are either good or bad.


Ghetto math has been fixed by Aiurily.

modifiers: hot shot, gauss barrel, wildfire, overheat
gcds in oh+wf: cooldown x5 minimum (1150 potency)
ogcds in oh+wf: ricochet+gr (500 potency)
4 auto attacks in oh+wf (assume 1 per 2.5s, 75 potency): (300 potency)
total potency in oh+wf minimum: 1950 potency
after hot/gb/wf modifier -> 2764.125 potency
add overheat modifier -> 3040.5375 potency
potency gain: 276.4125 potency
5 gcds following = 4 non-heated shot GCDs (averaged at 183 potency), 1 hot shot = total potency of 852
4 autos following oh = 300 potency
total potency during OH cooldown - 1152
total normal rotation potency - (4 heated @ 213p average, 1 hotshot) - 1335.6 after gb modifier
total potency lost from OH cooldown - 183.6
total potency gain: 92.8125~ potency
note: total potency gains increase more if we factor in IAD2 and multiplicative nature of FFXIV damage buffs, as well as raid buffs/debuffs which increase overheat synergy, including disembowel
note2: total potency gains also increase if we deviate from the baseline GCD of [cd cd cd cd cd]. if we perform [cd 323 cd], overheat net potency gain increases.
note3: this does not include potency from reassemble. you can estimate it at like 100+ or something. this also ends up making total potency gain from OHWF more worth it.
in total, you can expect something around 100-150 potency gain from OHWF depending on GCD conditions, external buffs, etc. it's a VERY small gain (and is unrewarding at times almost), but it's a gain nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Fannah

To the autor : When I saw how long was your text (I still am a good adventurer and was ready to read it all) I felt relieve to see you just doubled it by mistake x) So if you didn't realize, you should cut the half of this impressive text :3

To the others, I'm surprised no one said a word about this "overheat is always a dps loss"
Edit : I'm glad you have someone who helped you to correct it all, but it was long to write it on my side, so I let it as it is.
Edit 2 : As I saw you edited your post, please remove the doubled part^^"

Tl;dr : I gained a total of 144potency after counting gain and loss with my way to play (so a lot more than the 7 and less that you found). And my way to use it is not even optimal as I tried to use a very easy setup. And I didn't count ally buffs and Hypercharge.

For the difference with or without overheat to wildfire, you forgot :
- the difference with Ricochet and Gauss Round. I'm not saying it's a lot but still, if you use Wildfire everytime it's up, you will have Ricochet and Gauss Round in it with your overheat.
- You also forgot Hot shot's bonus --> it's actually a multiplicative bonus, so it will make the difference wider, it's kinda what the machinist always was about, it's that part when you stack all bonus and oGCD to make an amazing short burst rotation.
- You also didn't take in count you can use hypercharge every other wildfire, which is still another multiplicative bonus of *1.05 (I didn't count it in my final dmg for now)
- On top of that, I just have like 4 gcd while my gauss barrel is coming back, not 5 as we don't have Rapid Fire anymore for this phase. Remember bonus dmg are applied if you start your animation with the buffs, you don't need to have it when it lands dmg, that means to have 5GCD in 10sec, you would need a GCD of less than 2sec and starting it at start of the timer. So yea, it's 4 GCD during those 10sec without Gauss barrel/overheat's bonus.
- You also forgot Reassemble for a 100% crit on the Clean Shot. It could have crit anyway, but it's still a viable way to be sure about that, being another multiplier upgrading the dmg. But I agree it's more complicated to calculate the difference to speak in a simple way.

Btw, I just never was sure about how to count the bonus from Gauss Barrel when overheating.
If :
A) it's a 5% becoming 10% (I don't think it's this one)
B) it's a 5% becoming 15% (why not, it's from the same skill after all)
C) it's a 5% with a separated multiplicative 10% (so dmg*1.05*1.1) (I believe it's this one but maybe I'm wrong).
D) Obiwan Kenobi

I tend to believe it's B or C (everyone would prefer the C but I don't know how it is currently, I will use C anyway).

I'm not saying it's optimal, but just by doing it this very simple way
When 95 Heat : Quick Reload + Combo 1
Hot shot to overheat + Rapid Fire / Reload / Wildfire
Combo 2 (260P -> ammo) + Reassemble
Combo 3 (300P[crit]) + Ricochet (300P)
Cooldown (260P -> ammo)
Cooldown (230P) + Gauss Round (200P) (so the next Gauss Round will be when the Gauss Barrel will be up)
Cooldown (230P)

Total potency while overheating : (260+300[crit]+300+260+230+200+230)*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 1780*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 2775P

Same rotation without overheating (which is impossible as overheat allows you to spam Cooldown, but let's say for realism that you do the Combo 1 instead of the 1rst of my Cooldown so you will get a proc for Combo 2, making you lose just 40 potency if Combo 3 doesn't proc, and same total potency if it does) : 1740*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2466P
1780*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2523P

2775-2466 = 309P
2775-2523 = 252P

It's kinda far from the 157P you found. It's even almost twice as powerful.

Now, to get the difference, we are in a phase of 10sec without any boost. With only 4 GCD. The worst being 160*4 while you will be at worse at 190*4 +5%
160*4 = 640P.
190*4*1.05 = 798P.

798-640 = 158P
You gained 158 potency thanks to those 10sec with overheat I don't have, while I will have gained 309P compared to you (or 252P according to your luck, while mine is contant).
302 - 158 = 144P.

So I would have won a bit more than 144P (as the crit has not be taken in count, but having the +10% would make the difference a bit bigger again). It seems still small, but we can again make that difference bigger when allies will also buff the party. And if we time it right to burst a target, it can be even more worse if the boss jumps for a part of when we are not able to get Gauss barrel on.

The thing is I believe the machinist to be made to :
1 - fill the role of the range support : aka mainly giving TP/MP back for long fights (sad role)
2 - unlike Bard, Machinist is made to burst when it's needed to be less likely to have a team failing dps check. This is his way to help the team --> filling that support TP/MP role slot + making dps check phase easier (and wipe = loss of time too). So in a way, it's normal Bard has an overall bigger dps, actually, to still not be a real burden in those dps check phases he still have to be able to go through.

But I guess the problem is it means bards will always be designed to be enough for those dps check phases, so yea, what is the point in having a character just make it easier but less efficient overall, I guess. Well, there is the theorycraft and reality. With random people, better being the one carrying his team as a machinist will be more able to do than a bard would as you might be with too unskilled people to be good enough for those dps check phases.

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when is the new class balance? am expecting to see A LOT more buff for MCH >.>

The chances of getting anything at all is slim to none.

4.07 possibly, 4.1 most likely.

Sadly even after the buffs I am not really doing any more damage than I already was. It's kinda offputting.

no issue with the play style before the patch but after it did felt off and bit more bland and less managing heat. dps hasn't changed at all. Overdrive now least viable to use but it almost barely does anything other then just break even area.
I wouldn't bring my mch into raids anymore its just such a terrible spot right now I mean its doable but your dragging the whole group down cause you want to play said class. I didn't want to do that again like HW did but this time instead of not subbing I got sam to 70 and now see my self topping meters all day every day Like any sam should.

MCH needs a real dam buff

Maybe the problem is that we actually would want range dps to be comparable to melee ones. Like we still would be the lowest, but still close to them, while SE seems to be against that.

Honestly, I would like our dps to be way higher overall. Range physical support role like Bard and Machinist is still a mandatory role for long fights due to their ability to give TP and MP back. And having more than one (or two?) would be too much and then not efficient as they have so low dps, so I don't get why we are so far behind in DPS as we already don't need more than one of them. Imo, having one MCH and one Bard in a single team should be something viable with its good side. Not the best, but still nice. And I feel like it's not.

Bard can slot TP and MP regen .. why take MCH?
Bard can up the critical hit chance of the party ... why take MCH?
Bard can up the direct hit rate of the party ... why take MCH?
Bard can Increase HP and Reduce Vulnerabilities .. why take MCH?
Bards does more over all DPS than MCH with DoT and damage rotation ... Why take MCH?

This is what SE should be asking themselves, other than the die hard fans who like the aesthetic, there is NOTHING a MCH can do that a BRD cant already do, or do better.

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Originally Posted by s3ystic

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I think what MCH needs is something unique to the Job that makes them stand out more. For now MCH design seem to be going the Pure Range DPS Job route but it is not going so well because of SE choices due to MCh ability to be Mobile like Bard.

Maybe add a special Debuff that can stack up to 10 stacks for each overheat 123 skill that adds 1% vulnerability per stack on a enemy that last 30 seconds and can be stacked with the normal Vulnerability caused by turrets and other Jobs. Maybe even add a special Burn condition on Flamethrower where each hit by the MCH and Party member causes a 80 potency damage to proc.

Adjusting MCh to focus more on offensive debuffer, alot of focus on making enemies take more damage from attacks, would be ideal making it the opposite of Bard's Support buffer nature.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

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After my little rant I was just thinking of this, and its kind of uncanny to see it suggested by someone else. *fistbump*

I agree, if BRD is going to be the Ranged DPS buffer, then why not make MCH the ranged DPS debuffer?
Why not give MCH the ability to lower the critical, hit rate, etc of mobs, slap on vulnerabilities and if they want to keep our base DPS numbers low, give us DoTs. That would be evening the scales quite a bit. It could be melded with our existing skills, no need to reinvent the job. I like that idea.

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Originally Posted by s3ystic

After my little rant I was just thinking of this, and its kind of uncanny to see it suggested by someone else. *fistbump*

I agree, if BRD is going to be the Ranged DPS buffer, then why not make MCH the ranged DPS debuffer?
Why not give MCH the ability to lower the critical, hit rate, etc of mobs, slap on vulnerabilities and if they want to keep our base DPS numbers low, give us DoTs. That would be evening the scales quite a bit. It could be melded with our existing skills, no need to reinvent the job. I like that idea.

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When they first released mch that seemed to actually be what they were going for, I don't know why they dropped it rather than embracing the idea of the debuffer class.

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Originally Posted by s3ystic

Bard can slot TP and MP regen .. why take MCH?
Bard can up the critical hit chance of the party ... why take MCH?
Bard can up the direct hit rate of the party ... why take MCH?
Bard can Increase HP and Reduce Vulnerabilities .. why take MCH?
Bards does more over all DPS than MCH with DoT and damage rotation ... Why take MCH?

This is what SE should be asking themselves, other than the die hard fans who like the aesthetic, there is NOTHING a MCH can do that a BRD cant already do, or do better.

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There is that burst phase (dps check) with hypercharge/overdrive + burst with every cd/overheat/wildfire etc. I believe it's the only thing the mch does better. And the anti tank buster move Dismantle (or anti powerful aoe). But I guess it's way not enough to be compared.

One of the biggest problems is that turrets do not contribute to Wildfire - autos OR Overdrive.

Go beat up a dummy and test for yourself.

all summarized up for me what they had to do was to increase hot shot (3% is a joke) and give him any kind of utility. all we got was making the class skill free and pretending like they increased dmg. you cant give us an old cow and sell it for a breeding bull. you can do better SE

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Originally Posted by D3VNT

One of the biggest problems is that turrets do not contribute to Wildfire - autos OR Overdrive.

Go beat up a dummy and test for yourself.

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This is a well known fact, it's always been this way. It really wouldn't be a problem if MCH overall dps wasn't so low. Actually I like it this way. Our turret contributes a lot to our damage already, maybe too much considering it's something that you basically place and forget about for 90% of the fight.

As for the current situation MCH is in...I wonder if tweaking CD so that heat reduction is lowered from 25 to 10-15 would work to slightly buff our dps and make the job more engaging to play because indeed we're going 1-2-3 depending on procs way too often now and heat management is uninteresting.

Oh, and they should just bring the hot shot buff to 10% already. Or they could just make OH more relevant by increasing its buff to 20%, but they probably won't do this because it would make the job too "complex" by their standards I suppose.

If Overdrive doesn't affect Wildfire, then it's a net 0 gain over just having it out. Rook dps doesn't amount to a whole lot, and the only reason to ever use Overdrive is for phase shifts. It seems like a massive oversight for the 800 Pot to not contribute to Wildfire, when the heat changes = less Cooldowns = less dps.

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Originally Posted by D3VNT

If Overdrive doesn't affect Wildfire, then it's a net 0 gain over just having it out. Rook dps doesn't amount to a whole lot, and the only reason to ever use Overdrive is for phase shifts.

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Correct. That's clearly the intended use of the skill.

They need to buff overheat damage badly. All the tools seem to hint that we should be overheating for every wildfire yet the damage breaks about even if we do or if we don't. Seems like super sloppy design.

Also, Overdrive may be "designed" to only be used for boss transitions but my goodness that is such unfun/boring design of a new ability to give to a class for a new expansion. HW horrible Tornado kick implementation all over gain.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

They need to buff overheat damage badly. All the tools seem to hint that we should be overheating for every wildfire yet the damage breaks about even if we do or if we don't. Seems like super sloppy design.

Also, Overdrive may be "designed" to only be used for boss transitions but my goodness that is such unfun/boring design of a new ability to give to a class for a new expansion. HW horrible Tornado kick implementation all over gain.

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Not necessarily. It can also be used if you need a little burst and it's a huge dps gain in add phases. If they made it a dps gain to use it on cd it would be just as boring (why not simply give mch a new ogcd dps skill then?) if not annoying since you have to dispatch you turret again after the penalty.

But anyway, I thing overload it the last of mch issues.

Everyone is playing Bard (because more DPS, more utility). I hope, SE will listen to the minority who is still playing MCH. MCH need some love!

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Not necessarily. It can also be used if you need a little burst and it's a huge dps gain in add phases. If they made it a dps gain to use it on cd it would be just as boring (why not simply give mch a new ogcd dps skill then?) if not annoying since you have to dispatch you turret again after the penalty.

But anyway, I thing overload it the last of mch issues.

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My point was not about overdrive being a dps gain or not. My point is that it is not a fun ability for a new expansion ability. I never said it should be buffed to it is used on CD. I would rather have just had a different ability altogether. With that said, I agree that it is the least of MCH abilities but I only brought it up cause others were discussing it.

I honestly don't see why they just didn't try reverting the overheat 20%-10% change, 2 weeks ago when they did the baby class patch and told us to wait till 4.05. They didn't have to go through this whole messing with unnecessary heat gain changes. Making the small amount of mch players even more frustrated. Also that mch nerf in pvp in patch notes had me cracking up. They will nerf gauss barrel dmg% but again refuse to buff overheat dmg% in pve.

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

I wasn't complaining about the dmg in pvp and yes I agree pvp mch needed a change 3k dmg per shot when you had the second tier battle fever was ridiculous given mch mobility. The thing I was pointing out was how quick they were to mess with gauss dmg% in pvp but don't want to touch overheats dmg%.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

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Well there you have it! Maybe SE made a mistake and MCH was supposed to be a PvP only job! Too powerful for PvE! That has got to the new balance issues, it all makes sense now! Some jobs will play well in PvP and others will play well in PvE. I've been in those types of games before so i guess I can bury it and PvP only with it. If that's what SE really wants. (To clarify, while i quoted the person above, the sarcasm was not directed at them, but rather at SE who obviously separated two play-styles and ignores one over the other.)

4.05 being still weak is the least of the problems now (and it is a big one, because not only the previous issues remain, but now the job is not fun) the job is just plain boring now, its all about hoping for procs until WF is up, one full minute of doing absolutely nothing but pressing buttons and hoping for the best.
Every now and then you throw and eventual Cooldown, socked ammo in, trigger procs with them and wait until WF.
I was only raiding with my MCH in 4.0 and now I don't even feel good using it to walk around Rhalgr's because the changes really ruined the job for me, and I loved MCH since I first saw it when I started playing (in late HW), I am having more fun lvling my BRD now. :(
I won't say for PvP because I don't care for PvP, I don't care if MCH is still "so gud" in PvP because that's not what I play, I play PvE and only care about how it is in PvE and its NOT nice. (I do agree that mch in pvp IS cool though)
If MCH is a PvP job now, yeah, I suppose its not for me; In fact, I am changing my "Main Class" on the forums to BRD.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

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I agree. I never DPSed in PvP until SB. I used 8v8s to farm verity. In my runs roughly 60~70, I went from 0 kills to over 400. MCH was literally an insta gib god. Turn GB on, 2 hotshots 1heated split on box, get offense buff, load 3 ammo proceed to carry game. I am quite sure I wasn't the only one who thought MCH did too much damage in pvp. Literally took 6~7 secs to 100 to 0 a DPS.

Stormblood's MCH in PvP is still strong, but in Heavensward. . .

To the autor : When I saw how long was your text (I still am a good adventurer and was ready to read it all) I felt relieve to see you just doubled it by mistake x) So if you didn't realize, you should cut the half of this impressive text :3

To the others, I'm surprised no one said a word about this "overheat is always a dps loss"
Edit : I'm glad you have someone who helped you to correct it all, but it was long to write it on my side, so I let it as it is.
Edit 2 : As I saw you edited your post, please remove the doubled part^^"
Edit 3 : Erf I used a boost of 30 per ammunition instead of 25... values changed, but it ended to be another small dps gain because I mistyped something else at a moment, that's what happen when you write all night.

Tl;dr : I gained a total of 149potency after counting gain and loss with my way to play (so a lot more than the 7 and less that you found). And my way to use it is not even optimal as I tried to use a very easy setup. And I didn't count ally buffs and Hypercharge.

For the difference with or without overheat to wildfire, you forgot :
- the difference with Ricochet and Gauss Round. I'm not saying it's a lot but still, if you use Wildfire everytime it's up, you will have Ricochet and Gauss Round in it with your overheat.
- You also forgot Hot shot's bonus --> it's actually a multiplicative bonus, so it will make the difference wider, it's kinda what the machinist always was about, it's that part when you stack all bonus and oGCD to make an amazing short burst rotation.
- You also didn't take in count you can use hypercharge every other wildfire, which is still another multiplicative bonus of *1.05 (I didn't count it in my final dmg for now)
- On top of that, I just have like 4 gcd while my gauss barrel is coming back, not 5 as we don't have Rapid Fire anymore for this phase. Remember bonus dmg are applied if you start your animation with the buffs, you don't need to have it when it lands dmg, that means to have 5GCD in 10sec, you would need a GCD of less than 2sec and starting it at start of the timer. So yea, it's 4 GCD during those 10sec without Gauss barrel/overheat's bonus.
- You also forgot Reassemble for a 100% crit on the Clean Shot. It could have crit anyway, but it's still a viable way to be sure about that, being another multiplier upgrading the dmg. But I agree it's more complicated to calculate the difference to speak in a simple way.

Btw, I just never was sure about how to count the bonus from Gauss Barrel when overheating.
If :
A) it's a 5% becoming 10% (I don't think it's this one)
B) it's a 5% becoming 15% (why not, it's from the same skill after all)
C) it's a 5% with a separated multiplicative 10% (so dmg*1.05*1.1) (I believe it's this one but maybe I'm wrong).
D) Obiwan Kenobi

I tend to believe it's B or C (everyone would prefer the C but I don't know how it is currently, I will use C anyway).

I'm not saying it's optimal, but just by doing it this very simple way
When 95 Heat : Quick Reload + Combo 1
Hot shot to overheat + Rapid Fire / Reload / Wildfire
Combo 2 (255P -> ammo) + Reassemble
Combo 3 (295P[crit] -> ammo) + Ricochet (300P)
Cooldown (255P -> ammo)
Cooldown (230P) + Gauss Round (200P) (so the next Gauss Round will be when the Gauss Barrel will be up)
Cooldown (230P)

Total potency while overheating : (255+295[crit]+300+255+230+200+230)*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 1765*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 2752P

Same rotation without overheating (which is impossible as overheat allows you to spam Cooldown, but let's say for realism that you do the Combo 1 instead of the 1rst of my Cooldown so you will get a proc for Combo 2, making you lose just 40 potency if Combo 3 doesn't proc, and same total potency if it does) : 1725*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2445P
1765*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2502P

2752-2445 = 307P
2752-2502 = 250P

It's kinda far from the 157P you found. It's even almost twice as powerful.

Now, to get the difference, we are in a phase of 10sec without any boost. With only 4 GCD. The worst being 160*4 while you will be at worse at 190*4 +5%
160*4 = 640P.
190*4*1.05 = 798P.

798-640 = 158P
You gained 158 potency thanks to those 10sec with overheat I don't have, while I will have gained 307P compared to you (or 250P according to your luck, while mine is constant).
307 - 158 = 149P.

So I would have won a bit more than 149P (as the crit has not be taken in count, but having the +10% would make the difference a bit bigger again). It seems still small, but we can again make that difference bigger when allies will also buff the party. And if we time it right to burst a target, it can be even more worse if the boss jumps for a part of when we are not able to get Gauss barrel on.

The thing is I believe the machinist to be made to :
1 - fill the role of the range support : aka mainly giving TP/MP back for long fights (sad role)
2 - unlike Bard, Machinist is made to burst when it's needed to be less likely to have a team failing dps check. This is his way to help the team --> filling that support TP/MP role slot + making dps check phase easier (and wipe = loss of time too). So in a way, it's normal Bard has an overall bigger dps, actually, to still not be a real burden in those dps check phases he still have to be able to go through.

But I guess the problem is it means bards will always be designed to be enough for those dps check phases, so yea, what is the point in having a character just make it easier but less efficient overall, I guess. Well, there is the theorycraft and reality. With random people, better being the one carrying his team as a machinist will be more able to do than a bard would as you might be with too unskilled people to be good enough for those dps check phases.

Yuh I added the math people posted to me on reddit. As I said someone would come correct me. I was like this napkin math can't be right but I'm too lazy. I appreciate the work and effort.

What reddit post? x)

I just did it all by myself xD
Btw, the potency gain is bigger on mine. I'm wondering what was wrong on your side. Especially that I did a very easy setup, not optimized.

While you're here, can you eddit your current post? I think you don't get it. You just wrote twice your text in a row.
There is 2 "First, Quick Reload blablabla" and 2 "In conclusion, blablabla".

Edit : Thank you ^^

Yea I saw. I was like wait this is not the same stuff. Yea i know im gettin to it. ;-;

Lol I didn't expect you just link what I've done xD
Thank you I guess ^^

It's not my work? Why would I claim it. :o

Edit in my previous post : Erf I used a boost of 30 per ammunition instead of 25... values changed, but it ended to be another small dps gain because I mistyped something else at a moment, that's what happen when you write all night.
So 144P gain became 149P. Still smaller than our 1rst combo hit x)

I think that this expansion and patch really show that the balance team doesn't actually play all of the jobs.

MCH is in such a weird and bad place that there is no way they have someone who plays it regularly on the team.

I would rather have them not have touched it than these "fixes"

Oh well, time to level something else while waiting on 4.1 lmao

Would any of you pleased with the MCH changes, please post a video of you parsing on an omega sav dummy? I really need to know if I am screwing up bad because while I see no difference on my parse than what it was, I am NOT enjoying this "new" proc rotation, some of you seem really engaged in making MCH work and apparently you are, do you mind recording a video with parse on it?
I need to see how you math PROs are doing with it; While this thread in particular is about "DPS" and not "fun" , I wonder if you are at least having fun or just trying to make Fun Per Second of MCHs work?
I sincerely want to see your numbers and why you prefer 4.05 mch, I am not a math player so I can't figure out how much DPS is a 144P~ gain on 2500P or whatever.

Well, I don't have high equipments for now, so I can't compare to others easily as my ilvl sucks. I'm not really into getting tons of equipments for now ^^" My mind is somewhere else in game those days, but I like training a lot, just that my equipment won't help to compare to anyone.

It may look stupid, but first of all, I play a character for his/her style/background and I decide to main it or not (in vs Fighting games, I am able to select a stage or a character just for his/her music theme or his/her story background), I don't mind being not the optimized tool people expect as they forget to have fun because their head is stuck in the hole of "what others do better" (which is also a problem if you behave this way IRL). I know I also have fun as long as people say my class sucks and is unplayable to prove they're wrong, and of course, if I win my way too. If I lose, it's pointless.

I'll give respect where it is due Aiurily Ari is an if not the best mch I know (With a youtube channel). Here is her 4.05 rotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUmppCNpXY

I love mch but im not going to hurt parties and myself because developers don't understand more utility should mean less dps than less utility more dps.

As I said in a past post, I think at this point players will have to choose between two types of different gameplay styles involving MCH.

1) Maintain a balance between 50 to 99 Heat gameplay that focus on sustaining Overheat 123 skill.

or

2) Build up to near Overheat then Overheat for Burst damage at a specific moment.

Damage balance for a future update will be in high demand. However, I don't believe boosting Overheat to 20% damage boost alone will be enough because that would only favor those who choose to play MCH using Gameplay 2 Option. The adjustment will need to provided a damage boost for both sustaining between 50 to 99 heat and Overheat gameplay style to prevent any large DPS loss because a player miss a time for Overheat or accidently Overheat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

I'll give respect where it is due Aiurily Ari is an if not the best mch I know (With a youtube channel). Here is her 4.05 rotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUmppCNpXY

I love mch but im not going to hurt parties and myself because developers don't understand more utility should mean less dps than less utility more dps.

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Thank you very much!
Funny though, Ari said herself (or himself) that BRD is way better on that video (comments section) lol.