With Warrior being so squishy..

Would it be a good idea to meld Det? It increases your gained healing and dps output and it also got buffed with SB... OR should i stay with crit and direct hit? Im really not sure... i do Main and offtanking so the melds should fit both.

Warrior isn't squishy. Our tank stance doesn't reduce damage the way Shield Oath and Grit does, but we have more HP than they do, and when healers heal us, they heal us for more. In the end, it's balanced out. You don't need to worry about becoming "more tanky" via materia.

If you're worried about how squishy you might be, don't tank in Deliverance all the time, use your cooldowns properly, and learn when to best apply Inner Beast.

Now if you want to meld Determination because of damage, I'm not really sure yet. I'm currently running full crit and it's kinda disappointing how low my crit rate is. But maybe I just feel that way because we don't have Internal Release anymore. Still don't know if it's worth going Direct Hit though. I don't think it's worth trying until Savage comes out tomorrow, since there might be changes.

Sorry. Squishy? Whaaaaaat? Your beast gauge isn't just for stacking fell cleaves, man. Are you managing cooldowns with inner beast? Are you respecting the fact that you aren't 70 item levels above current content? If you seriously feel squishy, then you need to make adjustments.

A "squishy" warrior isn't doing it right.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Would it be a good idea to meld Det? It increases your gained healing and dps output and it also got buffed with SB... OR should i stay with crit and direct hit? Im really not sure... i do Main and offtanking so the melds should fit both.

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Tenacity is much better that Det if you want passive mitigation.
But WAR isn't squishy at all... we have the best mitigation kit out of the 3 tanks (in tank stance due to access to IB and EQ), or at least the one that best suits the content.
WAR feels squishy because your HP fluctuates more than the tanks in tank stance.
Outside tank stance, PLD would be better because they still had access to their full kit.
But in 4.05, we'll have again the ability to quickly go into defiance, pop IB and switch back to deliverance.

Oh well i see opinions differ here. While Tanking as a Paladin it feels like im getting a lot less damage (no not only because of shield oath) and Healers can do way more dps. As a Warrior. I eat heavy hits even with Defensive CD's and since Tanks have shared gear, this doesnt seem to be the Problem.....

Also Tenacy is useless until we can stack it up into the thousands and thousands since how extremely low it scales. There is a Reason that most Tanks still go Crit or direct hit. There is also a Reason that People lock PLD and DRK in the Pf Tool so you cant join as a WAR. But i guess everyone knows better than everyone. (<--- Yes this is intended)

Pffff, that's because pallies hide (cower) behind their shields. They block magic and physical attacks, so their incoming damage is predictable and smooth. Warriors mitigate through higher health pools, so it seems to spike more because they ARE eating more unmitigated damage, but we spring back like it's nothing thanks to our healing bonuses. Our flesh is the thickest, yum-yum.

Sounds to me like you're just experiencing dissonance between the two playstyles. The solution is just to pick one job over the other.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Oh well i see opinions differ here. While Tanking as a Paladin it feels like im getting a lot less damage (no not only because of shield oath) and Healers can do way more dps. As a Warrior. I eat heavy hits even with Defensive CD's and since Tanks have shared gear, this doesnt seem to be the Problem.....

Also Tenacy is useless until we can stack it up into the thousands and thousands since how extremely low it scales. There is a Reason that most Tanks still go Crit or direct hit. There is also a Reason that People lock PLD and DRK in the Pf Tool so you cant join as a WAR. But i guess everyone knows better than everyone. (<--- Yes this is intended)

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180-220 tenacity= 1% damage increase and mitigation along with healing effect. 2000 tenacity is 10% damage increase and mitigation along with healing effectiveness.

DET doesnt make healers heal you more.
Same with TEN. (Its VERY poorly phrased like most of the vulnerability oGCDs)

TEN will raise the amount of healing YOU do to others, or yourself.
(A PLDs clemency, a WARs inner beast/storms path, a DRKs Soul Eater/Abyssal Drain)
(The only difference is DET wont raise WAR self healing, or Soul Eater healing, as they arent spells. Abyssal drain is a spell, so i think it works there, but it will raise their dmg, which adds to your heal.)

TEN will also lower the amount of dmg u take by a small %.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Sorry. Squishy? Whaaaaaat? Your beast gauge isn't just for stacking fell cleaves, man. Are you managing cooldowns with inner beast? Are you respecting the fact that you aren't 70 item levels above current content? If you seriously feel squishy, then you need to make adjustments.

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Wrong. And right all at the same time.
By is really for you internal release fell cleave decimate, upheaval and onslaught. We have more ear cds than the other two you just need to learn how to use them properly. As for ib, do your best to avoid using it. Its not bad if you need the mitigation but it's mostly for timed when you fuck up and need extra, don't ever put it into hour rotation.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Oh well i see opinions differ here. While Tanking as a Paladin it feels like im getting a lot less damage (no not only because of shield oath) and Healers can do way more dps. As a Warrior. I eat heavy hits even with Defensive CD's and since Tanks have shared gear, this doesnt seem to be the Problem.....

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If you are actually tanking in tank stance then that's why. Pld and drk do tank less damage that war in tank stance because shield/grit give 20% damage reduction while war gives 20% increased max health and 20% increased healing receives. So yes you will notice a difference because of it. But war does have 1 more cooldown, they have 4 we have 5 so it can be worked with.

I know what all the Stuff does, thanks. I tanked 80% of my FFXIV time until Stormblood. People just dont seem to get me. Warrior felt so much more Tanky in HW. Maybe its just me but it feels like im getting more damage since SB but well.... i think we can end this conversation, i only seeked some opinions about melds and all people write is complains about my post..

Warrior isn't squishy. With rampart added they have almost constant access to good damage mitigation when rotating cooldowns. Vengeance is beast, and raw intuition is amazing for phys bosses and trash when coupled with awareness.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

Hummm, Defiance also reduces damage by 20%... always has.
From the official job guide:
"Increases maximum HP by 25%, while reducing damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity. Increases own HP recovery via healing magic by 20%."

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So uh, not sure if you're joking, but... that 20% reduced damage dealt applies to the Warrior, and not to the damage we're receiving. If Defiance made Warriors take 20% less damage AND gave us 25% more HP, we would be BROKEN AS FUUUUUU LOL just imagining it is making me laugh.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

As for ib, do your best to avoid using it. Its not bad if you need the mitigation but it's mostly for timed when you fuck up and need extra, don't ever put it into hour rotation.

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What else are you going to use it for while in Defiance? I sure hope your answer is not about to be something like "don't tank in Defiance", because if is, then let's just say players like you are perhaps the exact reason why Square-Enix introduced penalties to tank swaps. :p

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

Hummm, Defiance also reduces damage by 20%... always has.
From the official job guide:
"Increases maximum HP by 25%, while reducing damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity. Increases own HP recovery via healing magic by 20%."
Only reason for WAR to do more damage in tank stance is unchained (which is now a no no), Upheaval and IB ignoring the damage penalty.

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I'm assuming you read him wrong: Shield Oath makes the paladin take 20% less damage, while also dealing out 15% less damage. Defiance gives the warrior +25% hp and +25% healing received, while also dealing out 20% less damage: it doesn't reduce his damage taken at all, it gives him more hp/healing instead.

Or whatever the exact % are, I'm not at my home computer to check right now.

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Originally Posted by Keldon

I'm assuming you read him wrong: Shield Oath makes the paladin take 20% less damage, while also dealing out 15% less damage. Defiance gives the warrior +25% hp and +25% healing received, while also dealing out 20% less damage: it doesn't reduce his damage taken at all, it gives him more hp/healing instead.

Or whatever the exact % are, I'm not at my home computer to check right now.

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Haha, I read the post wrong... I though he meant outgoing damage penalty. Just confused with all the other tank dps related thread...
My bad.

I definitely feel fragile in the 61-70 dungeons when rounding up large mobs, but that might just be me biting off more than I should.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

This has always been a false notion that misinforms new players.

WAR's HP does not bounce down more than the other tanks if played correctly as their CD suite is often times as effective when used and used more frequently. It bounces upwards because of their burst heals through Inner Beast, Equilibrium and previously Bloodbathed Fell Cleaves.

I believe that the notion of it bouncing up and down is through the misinterpreted idea that they take more damage and receive more healing in Defiance thus their HP moves up and down more. This is not the case as WARs HP is larger than the other two and when taking a similar hit, percentage wise, it goes down all the same.

i.e

War 12 500 HP (100%)
PLD/DRK 10 000 HP (100%)

They take a hit that would deal 10 000 damage.

PLD and Drk reduce this down to 8000, War takes the full brunt.

WAR: 2500/12500 (20%)
PLD/DRK: 2000/10000 (20%)

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Reposted from another thread.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I definitely feel fragile in the 61-70 dungeons when rounding up large mobs, but that might just be me biting off more than I should.

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You should be using CD sets in large pulls, my rotation atm is Rampart + Thrill + Conva (mitigation and increased healing) -> Vengeance + Awareness + RI (big boy mitigation). If you're taking Anticipation that's also free every pull, though make sure not to stack it with RI. For bosses you can pretty freely use Rampart and RI, I use Vengeance in my zerk window if it's up as well or Thrill for my Upheavel if Vengeance isn't up.

This isn't even accounting IB usage, but I'm in Deliverance for 90% of the dungeon anyway (my stacks always end up in nightmare territory but thankfully that'll be gone by tomorrow).

e: Should note that there's a buttload of caveats and I usually adjust on the fly. Sometimes it's better to stagger CDs especially if the pull is going to last awhile, sometimes it's worth delaying CDs (WHM Holy stun, Vengeance procs go to waste and you're not taking any damage), sometimes it's better to chill in Defiance, etc. etc. Main point was that WAR's CD kit is insane and adaptable, no real reason you should be squishy.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

I know what all the Stuff does, thanks. I tanked 80% of my FFXIV time until Stormblood. People just dont seem to get me. Warrior felt so much more Tanky in HW. Maybe its just me but it feels like im getting more damage since SB but well.... i think we can end this conversation, i only seeked some opinions about melds and all people write is complains about my post..

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You could sustain yourself through pulls (and some bosses) without a pinch of healer intervention in HW due to Bloodbath. That's not the case anymore.


That said, the fact that tanks are slightly more healer-depedent in SB doesn't make WAR squishy at all. If anything, by healing through countless dungeons on WHM and SCH I'd say the squishiest tanks for pulls are DRKs, at least pre-70, but it's also probably a case of players not understanding their toolkits or being grossly undergeared.

As for melds, if what you're looking for is feeling less squishy, go for full Tenacity, I guess, since it's the only stat that reduces damage taken.

Maybe is because of the lost of bloodbath, doing 2 pack pulls needs 2cds active, that's the only way I can see an feel better mitigation, also remember war is not doing as much dmg it suppose to so once we can decimate x6 we probably will see better results since the pull will die faster an we could save some CDs.

It is possible to decimate x6 but is to risky since you need 2 combos to get back to 100 rage.