I'm sticking it out until 4.05 for now because I really do enjoy the difficulty and uniqueness of MCH, but I'm scared that they'll just go "overheat damage buff from 10% to 20%" and that's it. I really want to play this class despite the fact that right now BRD is better in every conceivable way.
Please make sure you get it right with the 4.05 balance changes SE, I don't want to have to switch to BRD or another class, but if MCH doesn't get some reasonable buffs I think I'll have to.
Furthermore if SE fails to give this class the help it needs it will really only confirm my suspicions that they have no interest in machinist being good. The only time MCH was ever good was really not intended by SE it was simply because they failed to have the foresight to see how well wildfire and % buffs scaled late into HW with higher ilvls.
As a MCH player, please don't let me down SE.
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07-11-2017, 02:16 PMOxmodialAs a MCH player, please don't let me down SE.
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07-11-2017, 02:39 PMEdwinLi
I honestly think SE developers that work on the Jobs never bother to test out the Job at all.
It seems the design choices were more made through theory crafting about what may happen instead what is actually happening.
4.0 update put a lot of issue on majority of the Jobs mostly design wise. -
07-11-2017, 02:44 PMAmetrine
I certainly hope MCH get's love. And SCH. And WAR. And BLM. And SMN.
Yeah there are a ton of balancing issues right now. -
07-11-2017, 02:55 PMZeonsilt
MCH main here for far too long.
Atm, Bard is better in EVERYTHING. Damage, Party buffs/utility, easier rotation and much less punishing to play (unlike MCH triggering overheat at wrong times).
I hope they will balance classes right with 4.05. Otherwise, i will be playing PLD (or not playing at all, which is also possible). -
07-11-2017, 05:38 PMKleeya
Brd doesn't have badass gunblades, so they are not better in EVERYTHING over mch.
Keeping seeing the "mch is too punitive if you overheat without wanting it" argument kinda make me want to facepalm when i think back of all the "FF14 is becoming more and more casual, you will be able to finish everything by rolling your head on the keyboard" comments i did see on some community sites when the coming big job changes were announced a while ago. So, you want jobs hard to play or not ?
Even if SE dont do some needed changes like tweaking some skills stats or making the flame thrower usable while moving i will anyway keep playing mch despite the bad stuff, the biggest reason being that it is much more fun than the old gunmage one. Excepting a quick try of my samourai being now lvl 52, since SB i didn't even bother to lvl another job because i dont feel the need to do so. -
07-11-2017, 06:05 PMZojhaHard and punishing are two different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleeya
Difficulty relates to how hard/easy it is to mess something up. Punishment relates to how badly you're affected if you do mess up. Avoiding the accidental overheat isn't overly hard, it is just very punishing if you do mess it up - a bit like old enochian, really. -
07-11-2017, 06:26 PMEnlaThis, just one look at FFlogs also shows that in spite of the punishing difficulty that no matter how perfectly a MCH executes their optimal rotations that an equally optimal BRD will always out perform them by leaps and bounds. Likewise because the MCH rotation is so unforgiving there are very few who are even capable of reaching that pinnacle at all which even furthers the current gap between the classes. I'll admit that MCH is much more fun to play now and I enjoy it immensely. Yet that doesn't change the fact that it's optimal rotation is far too intense for what little pay-off you're able to scrounge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
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07-11-2017, 07:17 PMSylve
-Replace Overdrive with an actually useful damaging skill in the core rotation. Im partial to having it turn the turret into the minigun the final boss of Doma Castle has.
-Change the +5% Damage bonus on Hot Shot to an effect similar to Huton. Spending a lot of time just waiting for globals since we only have 1 oGCD on a short cooldown. Making Cooldown off the global with a 2~ second recast would work.
-Flamethrower needs help too, Twitching ever so slightly kills it, It can't seem to crit and i cannot see damage numbers in my regular floating text to see if its even hitting my targets. Either make it a targeted AoE whereby the skill reads "hits the target and all targets within 8y" or give us an actual channeling cast bar for it.
-Make Heat Level improve damage, attack speed or Direct/Critical hit rate depending on how high it is. Rewards Machinists who can consistently ride the overheat line.
-Make Wildfire more consistent by changing it to XX number of charges on the target, each damaging shot that triggers WF now consumes a charge to store damage. The stored damage would be listed above/below/near the Ammunition counter.
Could potentially also set WF up for a 'remote detonation' effect, Whereby you activate to put the charges on the target and when the charges are consumed, you press WF again to detonate it. Would be unique in that it is less affected by phase changes compared to other jobs cooldowns.
As a final note, I think the only reason that Overheating has a damage bonus on it is to make Gauss Barrels heat function do something useful prior to getting Cooldown and Heated Shots. (GB is 52, Heat doesn't do anything until Cooldown at 62)
Personally, I don't believe we were ever intended to overheat the Barrel regularly, Considering how the Reloads work. 5% more damage for 10 seconds does not make up for the lost potencies from Heated Shots, the straight damage loss from not having Gauss Barrel for 10 seconds and then the nightmare of getting back to 50 Heat if Stabilizer is on Cooldown.
It definitely has a place in short "burst" phases and trash AoE, where the tiny boost might make a difference, But for regular stuff? I feel like the losses outweigh the gains in boss fights.
Once we get Cooldown and Heated Shots, Losing GB and being under 50 heat is severely punishing and all our skills seem to point to staying AWAY from Overheating as much as possible.
There are tweaks they can and should make to our core skills, But boosting Overheat damage percentages is the last thing i would expect them to do. -
07-11-2017, 08:42 PMKazrah
I'm still of the mind that after three weeks, no one--neither player nor dev--knows what to do with MCH. Lot of players still didn't know how it worked even back in 3.x, let alone how it works now, and I'm not sure devs know what direction they should take it. It all kinda smells of BRD 3.x, where such a drastic change made the job feel like it was having an identity crisis.
I also think this should call into question the finer details as to how jobs are tested. All that has been mentioned on the matter is that they're tested on basic performance (most likely a target dummy) and raid performance, probably to see how well it is in terms of being able to handle the most typical raid mechanics. There has yet to be any mention in regards to comparison of job performances within a given role (i.e. BRD v. MCH, SMN v. RDM, etc.), which could provide a possible explanation for specific lacks of job balance, MCH being far and away the best example for this. -
07-11-2017, 10:03 PMTankHunter678I kinda wish MCH was built around specialist weapons (the flamethrower is an ok start) and specialist ammunition. Even if some of those specialist weapons would need to be mounted in turrets, and having more turret fired skills. It would be nice to have a turret that we can order to fire FF7 style Matra Magic missile barrages at the target mob and the ones around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
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07-11-2017, 10:35 PMJonnycbadQuote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
BLM and SMN are excellent dps, what are you talking about. The bottom dps jobs now are MCH and DRG, and by a big %, whereas BLM and SMN are only behind SAM, NIN, BRD, MNK, RDM by 5-10% at most. -
07-11-2017, 10:55 PMMomoOGFor me the actually knocked the mechanics of the current MCH out of the park. Rotation is great fun. Just the dps is severely lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
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07-11-2017, 11:06 PMKalinOrthosOh~! I love some of these changes! Especially your ideas for Wildfire and Heat level, and having Cooldown off the GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
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07-11-2017, 11:49 PMRichardButteI think most are alright except for some glaring exceptions, mainly WAR, SCH, and MCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
Other classes have varying issues, but I think those three are by far the most "dumpster tier" right now. -
07-12-2017, 01:14 AMAmetrineSMN is as punishing, if not moreso, than MCH, and potencies are down from before SB. The balance was supposed to be Bahamut-egi being so bursty, but any mistake during the long climb ruins overall DPS if you lose the stacks to get to Bahamut. That and the maintained DPS is so low that Bahamut isn't covering the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
BLM is a little underpowered now, and no longer feels like our traditional glass cannon. It more than BLM players feel like it's less fun to play.
I haven't heard anyone talking DRG. I was not aware. I guess it's that bad off. Eek. -
07-12-2017, 03:19 AMHiveerI main DRG and no matter how good I play, how thick and slack-free my rotation is, or how much I buff, I cannot ever be on the top of the dps output list in endgame content. When I play VERY well I can do about 3k, but the average is usually 2.5-2.6.... Which is sad when you see a samurai do 3.5k even after dying four times. You unavoidably end up being the worst or second worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
I feel like the party utility we bring is hardly worth it, when sometimes all a party is looking for is pure dps coming from YOU. It would be nice if they could either give DRG more party buffs and flat out make us supports, or just buff the damage a little bit.
I feel bad for MCH if this is what it is like for them as well. -
07-12-2017, 03:25 AMTankHunter678DRK is in a worse place then WAR, where basically one skill is holding the class together.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
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07-12-2017, 04:41 AMZeonsiltPretty much the same story, however, MCH don't have strong party buffs like +Crit Rate (DRG) or +Direct Hit (BRD).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiveer
We only have that TP/MP regen party buffs, which is a "Role action" stuff, not MCH buffs. (Bard can use it too) -
07-12-2017, 07:17 AMKazrahKinda agree with this, but feel more like it could be built around indirect damage via turrets and bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by TankHunter678
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07-12-2017, 09:15 AMAmetrineIt would be a bit jack up if MCH was a better pet job DPS than SMN, as that's basically Puppeteer, but with turrets instead of Automatons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
Do it SE. -
07-12-2017, 09:23 AMkokorro
I'd like to see the MCH become more of a Debuff job vs its counter part BRD who is a Buff job. but Puppeteer with Automatons sounds way cool to!
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07-12-2017, 10:03 AMCoatlAt least DRK has one skill holding it together. War meanwhile..Quote:
Originally Posted by TankHunter678
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07-12-2017, 10:07 AMTankHunter678WAR meanwhile has better DPS then DRK, better mitigation then DRK, and not much lower utility. With their major problem being the stance dance penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coatl
Were it not for that one skill holding DRK together it would not even be a consideration compared to WAR. -
07-12-2017, 09:48 PMZeonsilt
Kinda a sidenote, but important one.
I've seen today some party's in "Party Finder" that exclude MCH from a list of a DPS jobs, i.e. zero MCH allowed to join (can't blame them for this discrimination, tho). I hope you know what you are doing, Square Enix.
See you at July, 18.
p.s. Leveling my low-lvl Bard just in case to be safe(and because i only have Dex gear atm), but still, i want to play my favourite DPS job aka MCH. /sadface -
07-12-2017, 11:45 PMThe_NPC
Even if nothing happens to MCH... even if it stays nerfed to the floor I'll still be using it to shoot ppl in the face as my only "Ranged" DPS class, when I'm not using PLD (which will happen cause sometimes I feal like not Tanking, or wanna use MCH for my 1st run of 8-24man stuff to whatch other tanks do stuff right & learn)
Can't say were it is "Numbers" wise thou as I used it for all of the solo 4.0 MSQ (PLD for the dungeons & stuff) but the Overheat part of the heat gauge does seam... tacked on for nessesity (can't have a heat gauge if it can't do that sorta thing)... still haven't got the new burst for Wildfire down yet, so used to getting 2 full combo's in for 3.0 I forget the timers shorter a lot -
07-13-2017, 12:43 AMCelefFind a FC or a static and play your MCH if you want to play it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Oxmodial
People really need to calm down remember that in a game only fun matters, big numbers are a bonus ^^ (plus, once they rushed everything they come whinning they are bored, just take not OP job and go back kicking some ass) -
07-13-2017, 12:50 AMThirdChild_ZKI
Ideally, it'd be all about the fun. But it's not. And if you're that job that's fallen out of favor with everyone, you're not allowed to even have "fun".
But, we'll see how this goes. If they apply a lazy fix, then I'll just sit this raid tier out. -
07-13-2017, 01:38 AMCelefWhich is why I advise to find a FC or a static, of coure in PU he will be kicked but if he is with friends they will remember that fun comes first ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI