This has been on my mind for awhile, and seeing someone's question in the Letter from the Producer regarding add-ons made me start thinking about it again.
Right now, it seems that SE's policy regarding parsers and overlays and similar software is "don't ask, don't tell". The idea is that you, personally, can use this tool to gauge your personal DPS as the game itself doesn't give you a reliable and realistic method to do this on its own. But don't use it to disparage others. At least, that's the impression I get.
But all too often, I see people with parsers instead using them to disrupt the gaming experience. Stuff like, "Haha look at this dumb tank doing 500 DPS lololol". I can understand their frustration, truly. It's maddening to have someone not be able to pull their weight. If they don't care, that's one thing. But did you ever think maybe they don't know?
The same goes for hunt tracking software. There are tools out there there that notify people in game where a hunt has spawned. If you can see it, you can get to it and kill it first. It's like the digital equivalent of spotlighting deer. You shouldn't do it, but people still do.
With the DPS part, the concern gets divided into two camps:
1) The people who complain and call out when someone does sub-par DPS (according to their parser) because the sub-par player's lack of skill or motivation is disrespectful and detrimental to the group and their playtime. It's understandable, but I think that tools like this give some players a superiority complex.
Mind you, not everyone who uses a parser does this and I don't want to lump them all into the same category. But even if you're not going for the world first server clear, it seems like every player is seriously scrutinized and has to have some kind of high and mighty FFlogs parse in order to be considered as one of the proud few who are "worthy" enough to try Savage or Extreme Primals.
It's like people forget this is a game.
2) Then you have the people (like me) who are on console and have to ask someone to record their DPS so they can see how they're doing, and really don't know where they stand in terms of how they are contributing to the overall raid in terms of damage/support. We're flying blind. We don't know how we're doing and it's frustrating. I have a thread right now in the DPS sub forum asking how to optimize my samurai rotation because I want to squeeze every drop of damage out of it.
The developers' fix to this was to introduce SSS, but it really doesn't take into account things like the mechanics of the fight nor the contribution of other players' buffs and such.
Ideally we'd have something like an Allagan control room where we can practice fights, or portions of fights, and see how well or poorly we did. Even if AI was used to apply buffs and such much like an actual team would, it would go a long way toward helping us see what we could improve on. It has even been suggested that at the end of a dungeon or boss fight, we get individual reports on our DPS/healing contribution as a whole, like what happens in PVP. I don't know why this wasn't added in PVE.
I just feel like these kinds of add ons are becoming more and more of a requirement in order to do things that should be do-able by default (or prohibited in the case of hunts) in game. Either let us each access the same kind of information on a one-on-one basis or disallow them all.
Can we talk about add-ons?
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07-06-2017, 02:25 AMStormfurCan we talk about add-ons?
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07-06-2017, 03:09 AMKatryn
Awwww, I thought this was about legit add ons but it's another parser thread. *laughs*
What I'd love if I could add an optional feature is something that would call out mechanic names for me since I have trouble seeing them. My bf does this when we play together, but it can leave me at a disadvantage when doing group content without him. Never gonna happen, but I figure there's no harm in saying it in a 'what if' setting. -
07-06-2017, 03:14 AMThandronen
Allagan Danger Room... YES PLEASE!!!
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07-06-2017, 03:16 AMRuinfeildThe only problem I have with this is that it would be like world of warcraft where it would be almost mandatory for most groups who don't want to learn the mechanics itself and might harass or kick people who don't have it on (like deadly boss mods for WoW). I would be fine with the mechanic if it was available only after the new content was unlocked after 2-3 weeks that way everyone has a chance to do the content blind for a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katryn
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07-06-2017, 03:22 AMNixxeBecause it's not terribly useful. If you want numbers with actual value, you need to use something with in depth information that can tell you not just how much damage you did, but with what abilities, to what targets, and when. The PVP scoreboard is basically nothing more than an opportunity to flex your epeen to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfur
Um... You're not going to go anywhere in Mythic if you think having DBM means you don't need to learn the mechanics. WoW doesn't have blind raids because they do PTR testing and all of the top tier guilds go clear the fights on the PTR and videos and guides exist before it ever goes live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
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07-06-2017, 03:24 AMRisvertasashiSadly in one of the more recent interviews, Yoshi said they dropped the goal of getting addons in the game completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katryn
If your BF or a friend is familiar with parsers, though, they can be setup to provide callouts. -
07-06-2017, 03:24 AMKeyboardFacerollname
I want an add-on like WoW's MogIt.
A changeroom UI that allows me to search through all types of gear(not just stuff I have on me or in my retainers, but every single item in the game) and create outfits, and then save them/add them to a wish list. Plus it tells you how to acquire said items, be it dungeons/trials, vendors, crafting, or events.
Oh, also ArkInventory. So I can set up my own inventory boxes and automatically sort items into each slot based on criteria of my choosing(so all of my crafting mats are in one box, all of my pots and food are in another, glam prisms in another, materia in another, etc. And at the click of a button, be able to sort any new loot I get into the appropriate boxes). -
07-06-2017, 03:30 AMMalzian
If someone uses a parser to disrupt the party and harass a player, then that is specifically against the TOS (and against their 'don't ask, don't tell' statement) and you are free to report them for it. This has always been the case.
For the hunt tracking... The argument of "it helps you kill them first" is a non-starter because if you see a hunt first without it... you can also kill it first. The tracker, even though it's against TOS (which I agree it is and is the real reason not to use it), only gives you a small advantage over everyone else and its less a spotlight than a motion detector. Still, I agree they shouldn't be used because they're against TOS, not because of the small advantage they may or may not give.
Also the concept of "early pulls" isn't really valid, either, since the person that first finds a hunt had EVERY RIGHT to pull and kill it at any point as anyone else. Calling the hunt and waiting (any length of time) is a courtesy. It is a social norm that is more a matter of manners than of actual obligation or requirement. No matter when you pull and kill a hunt it will always be too early for someone. You will always get someone yelling that it was pulled to soon since it can take a while for the call to filter through the dozens upon dozens of hunt LSes for that last person to get it and show up "just as it was called" even if you've been standing there for 10 minutes. -
07-06-2017, 03:32 AMNixxeMogIt is the single most important addon in the history of WoW. Game is unplayable without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardFacerollname
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07-06-2017, 03:51 AMRuinfeildNow I don't know if FF has a PTR (I assume they do) but I never actually see guides out before the fights are released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
What I am trying to get at is in FF you don't really get the names or callings of what moves are being done by enemies unless you either watch their cast bar or the mechanics show themselves. The problem I would have is with DBM you don't learn what mechanics do what because the add-on tells you straight up to run away, get close and what not where as in FF you need to remember what the visual ques are.
Though now I feel like I am trying to explain my mind set all wrong. . . -
07-06-2017, 03:57 AMMalzianThey do not. All testing is done internally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
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07-06-2017, 04:05 AMNixxeThere is no public testing of any kind for FFXIV. No friends and family alpha. No closed beta. No open beta. No PTR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
You are grossly overestimating how much a boss mod will hold your hand. If you don't know the fight yourself without the boss mod, the boss mod isn't going to save you on anything even remotely difficult. You will fail. You will get benched. You will get replaced. At least if your guild is even half decent. The way you think of boss mods is very common, but it is also very wrong. Their primary usage is timers to help plan cooldowns, as WoW doesn't build in nearly as many telegraphs as FFXIV does on critical abilities, and to simply make a noise when you are affected by a mechanic, which you should know how to respond to based on where you are in the fight without even looking to see what the mechanic is. -
07-06-2017, 11:05 PMStormfur
Regarding the PVP damage screen going into PVE -- I agree it needs a LOT more than just basic information. I'd like to know how the support that myself or other party members contributed to overall DPS, and things like that. Basically just a personal screen at the end of a dungeon or boss that tells you how you did. Maybe even rewards you for showing improvement between the last fight and this one (like if you're doing an extreme primal trial) -- but rewards could lead to a whole other can of worms, like somebody purposefully doing awful and then playing normal next round just to get the token or whatever. There's a lot to take into consideration, but it would help so much to have something like this where you can practice. Maybe even make such a room tended to by Faust from Alexander :)
Also, I didn't know that any other add-ons exist besides parsers, so I learned something new today. Despite my character's name, I've never played WoW.
I also get what you're saying about the hunts. But I really think they should boost the HP of the ARR and HW hunts because no sooner is one called than it dies. -
07-06-2017, 11:14 PMBigRed5392please.......... you can't do any content in WoW w/o people cussing you out for not having add-on. I've seen them, i've tried to use them it just tools that hold your hand nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
also prts don;t work, WoWs ptr barely has the 10% of the community, and overwatch's ptr barely sees 1%
most ppl use it for a peek at content.
off quote
yes yoshida gave up on add-ons because of the "i want a parser" community. The guys is a hardcore mmo player and knows how bad communities get when stuff like this is enforced by addon use. his big time mmo was dark ages of Camelot which i read was pretty hardcore, and had a decent pvp. -
07-07-2017, 12:23 AMKosmos992k
Pretty sure you just want to talk about parsers, damage meters and the like. That poor horse has been so thoroughly flogged to death that even it's hooves have been ground to dust by now.
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::blinks::Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
Help me understand something, please. Why does anyone play a game where knowing in advance how something works is mandatory, and you are in effect discouraged - actively - from learning content by doing it? I have loved SB so far because we are all having to learn as we go, an it makes it so much more fun to tank dungeons when I don't know exactly what is coming an d have to respond, and figure out what is going on.
Well, I will be happy if SE and Yoshi stick to no add-ons and enforcement of the ToS whenever someone steps out of line in a way that is reportable. -
07-07-2017, 01:02 AMZarabeth
SE's policy is that people are not supposed to be using parsers. So if someone gives you a hard time about your dps on their parser, report them and have a nice day.
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07-07-2017, 01:34 AMKatrynYes, I 100 percent agree with you. We do not need any form of outside add ons in this game as they can make things confusing and give undue advantage to certain players; especially since this game is on console and PC. I was suggesting what I said in more of a 'what if' or 'if the developers wanted to add more tools' way. Also, I was listing it as a QoL tool for people with visual impairment--not trying to nerf content. You would still need to know what the moves actually do to make it worth anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
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07-07-2017, 02:00 AMAnnah
parser = no. Our community is too toxic for that.
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07-07-2017, 02:17 AMAvatre
The only outside add-on I would want is one that shows you if a dye able version of certain armours is available, particularly the dungeon exclusive ones(the DRG jacket whose name escapes me right now from Pharos HM for example). So many times I want something, but want a different colour...NOPE no chance of that.
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07-07-2017, 02:48 AMSerilda
Add ons would make console players even more of a hated underclass than they already are. I don't want them. I do, however, want more built-in accessibility configurations (which they're definitely working on constantly) as well as a proper, built-in solution for glamour. A decent glamour log could easily work a bit like a library to aid collectors, like a fancy version of the Orchestrion log.