About PVP gear

Hello guys. I am a new player and i was recently testing the pvp in this game. I dueled a monk 60 and back then i was 34 white mage and i destroyed him. So i was asking some people and they said that gear does not matter at all in pvp :mad: :mad:. And my question is why i must do dungeons raids and other things?? If gear does not matter in pvp why i should try to get better items?? Is this real?

Duels are only supposed to be played against the same role as you, since all healers overpower any other role in 1v1.

Also, the game is PvE focused, if you just want to PvP, have fun PvPing, you won't need gear or levels for that (30+).

so the pvp gear its just for looks?

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

so the pvp gear its just for looks?

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At this point, yes sadly.

no point then playing this game any more.... No excitment getting cool gear to rule pvp... No sense.... There is no point playing game which doesnt care about my tries for getting better... Getting better for what??!!!! Slaying monsters??? Such a shame.... I was so happy when i start playing this game and now my money went for nothing..

Gear mattered in the past for VERY tiny optimization (ie taking crit/det pieces on a SMN for an extra dps edge after being downscaled). It's been simplified a lot so anyone can jump in and enjoy it because in its' previous state it was well... desolate in many areas at many times to say the least. Now PvP gear is lvl 1 and purely for glamour. Obviously this hurts the hardcore aspect of the PvP community, but it's a hit they've taken for the greater good, as the casual far outnumber the hardcore, naturally.

Before 4.0 gear mattered, but everything was scaled down to what was considered "entry level" for endgame. This was so that players who reached max level could jump right in. . .

. . .The problem with that was you'd have people show up in gear lower than the item level sync and be a liability. Or players who focused on the wrong secondaries and weren't able to deal damage enough to get the job done. Or people who forgot and queued wearing vanity gear with low/no stats. Back in the beginning, gear DID matter and even materia was usable. All this did was create a disparity; anyone who got in early geared up and became too strong to take down. If you weren't geared, you didn't stand a chance.

I've got mixed feelings about the changes to gear (as I'd gone out of my way to have optimized sets for my jobs), but overall I like the foundation it's created. No longer do I have 8-9K HP healers or DPS (A melee LB could just kill someone at 8K or less), and no one can make claims that they win/lose for outgearing someone else. And unapologetically, let me just say if you were going to rely on gear to make you strong in PvP, you were in for a very bad time anyways.

As it is in PvE, so is it in PvP: Gear does not equal skill.

For being strong in pvp u must have skills and gear! Skills obtained through training between duels and gear from grinding. Thats the point doing dungeons and pvp. To get stronger and get the best skills and gear. Gear alone does not make you the strongest. I was a veteran player in AION. There you must be both skilled and geared to be able to rule the battlefields. If you have not skills and good gear you die but if you have both of them its the best. The reason someone goes to pvp dungeons and raids , and arenas is for 2 things in all games....

For the content and the story behind each dungeon or raid and to become stronger for pvp. There is NO reason doing arenas , dungeons, and raids if gear is only cosmetic. That means my efforts of complete a hard raid of a tough battleground go to waste... Do raid , arenas and other things for WHAT???? To kill monsters more easily?????? Thats funny and makes me feel stupid. In MMORPG you must have lore, good questing experience, dungeons , raids and pvp... Final fantasy has it all except for pvp...

It is a chain... You do this all to become stronger. No pvp gear matters???? So the only reason to play this game is for the dungeons and raids???!!!! Its better to play simple RPGS to have that. PVP is the thing that makes MMORPGS special. PVP makes you complete all this hard pve content... To become stronger... To enjoy fighting... That enjoyment is a past.... All people soon will be bored because only pve and pve pve pve its one element....

MMORPG must have PVP also if it wants to survive!!! If the pvp is brought back to the game, final fantasy will be a god among MMORPGS!!

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

For the content and the story behind each dungeon or raid and to become stronger for pvp. There is NO reason doing arenas , dungeons, and raids if gear is only cosmetic. That means my efforts of complete a hard raid of a tough battleground go to waste... Do raid , arenas and other things for WHAT???? To kill monsters more easily?????? Thats funny and makes me feel stupid. In MMORPG you must have lore, good questing experience, dungeons , raids and pvp... Final fantasy has it all except for pvp...

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Glamour is the true end game.

PvP was never popular. Now they made it so casuals could actually get into it. I think it will grow from there. They may bring gear with stats back once it gets balanced out. But for now, its to enjoy stabbing other people. It appeals to those that play PvP in other games that don't need gear as well. I.E. Overwatch for me.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

MMORPG must have PVP also if it wants to survive!!! If the pvp is brought back to the game, final fantasy will be a god among MMORPGS!!

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No it does not. It has been thriving on PvE since ARR came out. Not PvP.

WOW was the perfect mmorpg because it had it all.... All people get away because they did the same thing. Gear does not matter.... I aggree that pvp its not the ony thing that makes a game alive but pvp must have a place in mmorpg. Thats the element that make the game different from a simple rpg game. They must do something about pvp gear. Its ok to sync to let people pvp but make the sync to a determined lvl so the people with good pvp gear can make a difference... Make pvp arenas based on lvl. Look warhammer online... It had tooooooooons of players but the company got broke... The system of warhammer online was the best. Arenas based on lvl.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

WOW was the perfect mmorpg because it had it all.... All people get away because they did the same thing. Gear does not matter.... I aggree that pvp its not the ony thing that makes a game alive but pvp must have a place in mmorpg. Thats the element that make the game different from a simple rpg game. They must do something about pvp gear. Its ok to sync to let people pvp but make the sync to a determined lvl so the people with good pvp gear can make a difference... Make pvp arenas based on lvl. Look warhammer online... It had tooooooooons of players but the company got broke... The system of warhammer online was the best. Arenas based on lvl.

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WoW is anything but perfect. I understand you like PvP but a good chunk of the playerbase that plays FFXIV does not. Otherwise they wouldn't have had to go to these extremes to get people to play in general.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

MMORPG must have PVP also if it wants to survive!!! If the pvp is brought back to the game, final fantasy will be a god among MMORPGS!!

WOW was the perfect mmorpg because it had it all.... All people get away because they did the same thing. Gear does not matter.... I aggree that pvp its not the ony thing that makes a game alive but pvp must have a place in mmorpg. Thats the element that make the game different from a simple rpg game. They must do something about pvp gear. Its ok to sync to let people pvp but make the sync to a determined lvl so the people with good pvp gear can make a difference... Make pvp arenas based on lvl. Look warhammer online... It had tooooooooons of players but the company got broke... The system of warhammer online was the best. Arenas based on lvl.

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I need to explain to you why this is wrong, don't take it to the wrong way.


MMORPG PvP is really bad, to the point in a lot of MMOs even the PvPers would simply rather not have it as a dev focus. There was a point in BC when PvPers actually complained saying having a ranked ladder was the worst idea Blizzard could have ever come up wth. It wasn't that these players weren't good in controlled environments and were WPvP heroes, it was because it gave Blizzard some kind obligation to keep it balanced and clean and if you've ever kept up to date with the state of PvP in that game over the years; it is impossible. With so many variables/comps/conditions; they can't touch anything without breaking something else, even after the PvP/PvE stat split. Look at Demon Hunters, for almost a year they were in the most irritating position for Blizzard to fix. They were too strong in meta, but too weak out of it. Nerfing Meta would make them useless, buffing out of meta would make Meta too strong. And they still can't get it right. And if they left it how it was, you were better with an Enhancement Shaman. If they buff it, then they're too strong in DH TSG or any other melee cleave. They're fighting a losing battle. The end result? No longer part of the MLG or IEM circuits. To take Summoner for example, they had to be gutted in HW because they were too strong inside Dreadwyrm Trance (but they were useless outside of it), even after it got nerfed SMNs still relied on DWT to do anything other than peel. Buffing them out of DWT would either make DWT too strong to stay in or give them too much spread pressure. You get where I'm going with this, by now, I'd hope. If not - ask any RMP player why our comp was the hardest to balance.

PvP in other MMOs is negligible so ye, won't go indepth with GW2 and other games.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

WoW is anything but perfect. I understand you like PvP but a good chunk of the playerbase that plays FFXIV does not. Otherwise they wouldn't have had to go to these extremes to get people to play in general.

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WoW was horrible in my opinion. Especially since I played SWTOR (IMO way better PVP) & FF14 (Way better PVE) before it.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

No excitment getting cool gear to rule pvp...

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Which is precisely why gear shouldn't matter in PVP. If you want to rule, rule by skill and skill alone.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

I need to explain to you why this is wrong, don't take it to the wrong way.


MMORPG PvP is really bad, to the point in a lot of MMOs even the PvPers would simply rather not have it as a dev focus. There was a point in BC when PvPers actually complained saying having a ranked ladder was the worst idea Blizzard could have ever come up wth. It wasn't that these players weren't good in controlled environments and were WPvP heroes, it was because it gave Blizzard some kind obligation to keep it balanced and clean and if you've ever kept up to date with the state of PvP in that game over the years; it is impossible. With so many variables/comps/conditions; they can't touch anything without breaking something else, even after the PvP/PvE stat split. Look at Demon Hunters, for almost a year they were in the most irritating position for Blizzard to fix. They were too strong in meta, but too weak out of it. Nerfing Meta would make them useless, buffing out of meta would make Meta too strong. And they still can't get it right. And if they left it how it was, you were better with an Enhancement Shaman. If they buff it, then they're too strong in DH TSG or any other melee cleave. They're fighting a losing battle. The end result? No longer part of the MLG or IEM circuits. To take Summoner for example, they had to be gutted in HW because they were too strong inside Dreadwyrm Trance (but they were useless outside of it), even after it got nerfed SMNs still relied on DWT to do anything other than peel. Buffing them out of DWT would either make DWT too strong to stay in or give them too much spread pressure. You get where I'm going with this, by now, I'd hope. If not - ask any RMP player why our comp was the hardest to balance.

PvP in other MMOs is negligible so ye, won't go indepth with GW2 and other games.

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These types of concerns are irrelevant to most players except when the imbalance is egregious, same as in raiding. I played many non-meta teams in 2s and 3s to the 2k or 2.2k and I'm not even good at PVP in WoW or any other game. The sort of sensitivity balancing changes have at the very top is not typically replicated towards the bottom, where people are losing because they make poor use of focus macros, tunnel vision, don't know how to burst, or whatever other deficiencies they have.

really only matter if you're a pvp focus player or a Pve focus player, WoW is heading to this direction as well.

Anyone who thinks having pvp gear is necessary is not a real pvper. PvP is about skill, and having gear gaps exist is the furthest thing from skill. Only people who want pvp gear just want to be able to one shot newbies in pvp. FFXIV is one of the few MMO's that have gotten in right in that aspect.

Ok then. I respect all your opinions but i did not tell that only gear matters. I mean that i want a balance between gear and skill. Not only skill and not only gear. If gear does not matter at all, give me a reason doing the hard raids and dungeons of final fantasy again and again.... Give me a reason to try hard to beat the hard bosses the pve has. Just give me a reason.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

Ok then. I respect all your opinions but i did not tell that only gear matters. I mean that i want a balance between gear and skill. Not only skill and not only gear. If gear does not matter at all, give me a reason doing the hard raids and dungeons of final fantasy again and again.... Give me a reason to try hard to beat the hard bosses the pve has. Just give me a reason.

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Uh...the reason is because progression is still a thing in pve.

Xaxaxaxaxaxaxa!!! :p:p You are saying that i must be good for killing monster more easily?? Ok but raids and dungeons are going to be completed someday. Then??? If i want to have progress in a game in killing monster more easily i can play witcher , skyrim, dragon age and etc. Thats RPGS and this game is MMORPG. That means grinding dundeons and raids for getting gear for pvp and having fun with people. Socialise, making team and proggress the rankings into a game. Anyway i hope someday square enix will balance the thing gear-skill for pvp. I just want a balance.... Not only only skill for pvp and not only gear for pvp. I hope for a balance... I mean a player must have both of them to be good...

I've cut down on a lot of my harsh posting but again, I feel like this must be made clearer to you. This is not a game to be taken seriously for PvP to some extent. It is deliberately designed to be as simple, as easy to get into whilst being as fun as possible for the average, few hours a week player who doesn't want to learn which stat goes where, which gear is the best, what rotation should I use etc. The majority of the PvP community wants it this way which is more or less going to be denied by the ranked community, but the ranked community likewise know we are the minority, and further to this - whatever the JP community says in this game is practically gospel; and they are not entirely in disagreement with the changes (in case people are wondering what they are posting about - it's class balance). This is the direction Square Enix wants. Do not commit to this game and waste your time if you are expecting even the slightest complex kind of PvP progression that you find in other games because even levelling up PvP "ranks" now doesn't really do anything except grant titles, because people coming into PvP were at a heavy disadvantage and even if you gave them 50 points, they'd be lost to know what goes where for the most part.

I'm mainly bothering to tell you this because you're new, and I don't want you to waste any money in anticipation of something unlikely to happen. FFXIV is a game you play for the story first, glamour and gpose second (ex dee!), raiding third, hunts exploration crafts and whatever else goes here fourth, and somewhere at the back is PvP.

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

Xaxaxaxaxaxaxa!!! :p:p You are saying that i must be good for killing monster more easily?? Ok but raids and dungeons are going to be completed someday. Then??? If i want to have progress in a game in killing monster more easily i can play witcher , skyrim, dragon age and etc. Thats RPGS and this game is MMORPG. That means grinding dundeons and raids for getting gear for pvp and having fun with people. Socialise, making team and proggress the rankings into a game. Anyway i hope someday square enix will balance the thing gear-skill for pvp. I just want a balance.... Not only only skill for pvp and not only gear for pvp. I hope for a balance... I mean a player must have both of them to be good...

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Are you new to MMOs or something? What MMO's have you been playing that makes you grind pve for pvp gear? I cant recall any in recent history. Most MMO's that have pvp gear have a separate progression to earn pvp gear. That said, most modern MMO's are moving away from having gear in pvp. FFXIV is just one in the latest of MMO's to remove gear stats from pvp which is 100% a good thing. PvP is for being competitive and gear progression has no place in pvp ever. This fact is proven by MMO's moving away from it.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Are you new to MMOs or something? What MMO's have you been playing that makes you grind pve for pvp gear? I cant recall any in recent history. Most MMO's that have pvp gear have a separate progression to earn pvp gear. That said, most modern MMO's are moving away from having gear in pvp. FFXIV is just one in the latest of MMO's to remove gear stats from pvp which is 100% a good thing. PvP is for being competitive and gear progression has no place in pvp ever. This fact is proven by MMO's moving away from it.

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Technically WoW did a really long time ago (4.0.1 era) because several items of PvP gear ie vial of shadows, cunning, legendary weapons etc were better than their PvP counterparts. But seriously recent, none come to mind.

Go to the Wolves' Den, and take a look at the i70 and i90 gearsets under the (ARR) categories.

Back when they first added PvP, you had to attain certain ranks to wear the new gear, and once you had it, it provided such a strong buff to players that anyone without it didn't have much of a chance, especially if it was melded with materia. Simply put, you had to be good to get it, but once you got it, you didn't have to be good. This is why, ultimately an item level sync was implemented and materia bonuses were ignored. Understanding how the sync affected stats allowed players to build PvP gearsets - largely out of older pieces with the secondary stats they wanted as well as PvP gear which was generally lower item level than PvE gear of each generation (205 PvP gear when 240 was the highest PvE, 235 PvP when 270 PvE), but this was not common knowledge nor explained anywhere for the casual player, so many who started in 3.5 found themselves again crushed, even if wearing full sets of the new Garo gear.

This again proves that gear didn't make up for their lack of skill. But rather than properly explain and teach it, SE decided to simplify and make PvP more accessible through standardized stats, skill/ability kits, and no gear bonuses whatsoever. It's not a change I agree with, but it's an improvement over the frequent misunderstandings of gear and gearing for PvP.

I totally think people are missing your point - but what you've been saying is correct. The "End Game" in FFXIV is to fight strong monsters, to get gear from them to fight stronger monsters. There is no sense of taking what there to compete or compare against anything or anyone. It's just a continuous grind cycle with no potential to be distinguished from any human players. For FFXIV if you don't enjoy Raiding / Dungeoning for the sake of performing the act alone you might as well not play.

You are doing way too much whining. If you want to pvp, then do it. If you aren't happy, play another part of the game. Pvp is a very small percentage to the people who play this game . Everyone has different opinions and is entitled to it. Please quit whining. If you want changes made do it in a mature fashion . Yeeeeeesh

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Originally Posted by Demonizer91

Ok then. I respect all your opinions but i did not tell that only gear matters. I mean that i want a balance between gear and skill. Not only skill and not only gear. If gear does not matter at all, give me a reason doing the hard raids and dungeons of final fantasy again and again.... Give me a reason to try hard to beat the hard bosses the pve has. Just give me a reason.

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You could always do it for fun? Video games are simple, if you're having fun, play it, if you're not, stop.

If you can't find a reason to play, then don't. If enough people think the same as you then something will change or the game will fail.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Glamour is the true end game.
PvP was never popular. Now they made it so casuals could actually get into it. I think it will grow from there. They may bring gear with stats back once it gets balanced out. But for now, its to enjoy stabbing other people. It appeals to those that play PvP in other games that don't need gear as well. I.E. Overwatch for me.

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That's the point. Overwatch is a E-Sports game from the ground. A MMORPG is not about E-Sports at all. Even though I love E-Sports it does not fit into a MMORPG. I want an open world. Fighting monsters, getting stronger, getting rewarded for getting stronger, getting better gear and experience to use my skills perfectly. All this for one goal: Become stronger than the guy that smashed my face last time I joined PvP. This is all lost with the changes. I've played so many MMORPGs and I'm also new to FFXIV and I'm about to buy the full version. But sadly Demonizer91 is just right. With this step FFXIV is about to become just as casually boring as all the other MMORPGs out there. End game is just boring without a good PvP.
I was about to buy this game in a few days. But actually now I think I will not. Because I don't see the point in putting time and efford into that... :(

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Are you new to MMOs or something? What MMO's have you been playing that makes you grind pve for pvp gear? I cant recall any in recent history. Most MMO's that have pvp gear have a separate progression to earn pvp gear. That said, most modern MMO's are moving away from having gear in pvp. FFXIV is just one in the latest of MMO's to remove gear stats from pvp which is 100% a good thing. PvP is for being competitive and gear progression has no place in pvp ever. This fact is proven by MMO's moving away from it.

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I'd say mmos where PvP is open world. Aion has a pvp arena, but it's just for the sake of having an arena. Gear is not balanced nor are classes. So while NPCs will sell you basic gear, you'd best get on with tireless grinding and farming to stand up to seal clubbers at max level waiting to gank your pretty head on the field.