Warrior is in a bit of a troubled spot right now, most notably because of their flow of game play being affected by switching stances halving your Beast Gauge now as well as just some abilities being just flat out useless such as Shake It Off and Onslaught (Only used in very extreme situations, otherwise it's just not good). On top of the job just feeling clunky now, it lost much of what made warrior really good before. I do agree with Storm's Path not applying a damage-down debuff anymore, cause it was, frankly, too strong, but warrior didn't get enough in return, and they actually got more taken away from them on top of that it feels. At the very least: Can switching stances not half your Beast Gauge? It just doesn't feel fun to play around such a clunky-feeling mechanic.
Warrior: What Can We Do to Fix This?
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06-25-2017, 06:55 AMFurrytractorWarrior: What Can We Do to Fix This?
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06-25-2017, 07:05 AMLannybaby
The no-hassle stance dancing in HW was pretty OP. It allowed warriors to fel cleave away when the opportunity presented itself, without any drawback, or inner beast when a buster was coming, without repercussion. There was no consideration to think of, no consequence like PLD and DRK using up mana to stance dance, and it was on global for them unlike WAR. Now there's a price. It's still off-global, but now there's an understandable toll.
What you're feeling now is a loss of what one of the things that made WAR too good. WARs honestly just need to get used to it. -
06-25-2017, 07:07 AMXenosan
If they insist that WAR must suffer a penalty on stance swap, the penalty should not reduce gauge below 50. So if you're at 45 gauge and swap, you lose none, @60 gauge you will drop to 50, but @100 gauge you'll lose a full 50 (half). Putting a hard gate on the maximum penalty like so seems to me the obvious solution, other than just removing the penalty entirely of course.
Shake It Off should be utility/sustain imo. WAR and nearby allies get increased HP/MP/TP auto-regen for a few server ticks (specifically: the in-combat penalty of auto-regens is removed or reduced for like 6-12 seconds). -
06-25-2017, 07:13 AMRagologyQuote:
Originally Posted by Lannybaby
WAR stance switch was off global because their tank stance didn't apply until they had some health restored. If PLD or DRK had an HP boost instead of a defense boost in their tank stances, they'd be off-global too. -
06-25-2017, 07:20 AMLannybabyOh, no, I completely understand that. ShO and grit are viable defensive cds and should be on global, that's not an issue. The problem is the lack of resource cost. Drk, who already had enough mana issues, still had to tangle with another one through the cost of reapplying grit. Wars only had a 10 second cd between each stance AND didn't lose their wrath/abandon stacks (they would just be transferred over).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragology
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06-25-2017, 07:56 AMKothos
Penality for switching instance us not the sokutions. Guess what's happening? War are tanking the whole fight in deliverence.
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06-25-2017, 08:14 AMLannybaby
Then, I will say good luck to that war's team.
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06-25-2017, 08:49 AMArgyle_DarkheartThe consequence was being stuck in the opposite stance for 10 seconds. It's also worth noting that, when compared to the other tanks, far more of WAR's kit is gated behind their stances--thus the want, if not the need, for seamless (or near seamless) stance switching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannybaby
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06-25-2017, 08:59 AMCommanderNarwhal
Heres an idea, scrap the non functional 100 beast gauge and go back to 5 stacks with an indicator like monk's chakras or summoner's aetherflow. Make onslaught build 1 but have a 30 second cooldown, upheaval cost 1, fell cleave/innerbeast and their AOE equivalents cost 5, rework inner release completely or make it reduce the cost to 2 stacks for the 5 spenders, and put the damage down back on storms path while making it build only 1 again.
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06-25-2017, 10:19 AMVexSunkillerI can't agree with this. The beast gauge works its the limitions around that make it work for stand dancing only. That's the only mechanic it doesnt work with. It has done wonders for Defience and is used for more methodical spending of the beast. Because you think it doeant work shows that you havent or will not adapt to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderNarwhal
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06-25-2017, 11:22 AMCommanderNarwhalTo me it raises issues with making fell cleave too spammy and less well setup and forces longer build phases that make it difficult to line up with things like trick attackQuote:
Originally Posted by VexSunkiller
plus the gauge is ugly as hell -
06-25-2017, 11:39 AMChloeGrace
Wait 2 years, like paladin did. Enjoy your status as a "viable" tank.
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06-25-2017, 01:17 PMkonpachizarakithat's a good idea, while we're at it why not unsub from the game so SE will lose money and they will make our wish happen sooner?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChloeGrace
oh and yeah they did suffer before paladin did, it's called patch 2.0 -
06-25-2017, 01:27 PMYagrushSnarky post aside, Warrior already went through a really rough patch before Paladin 3.0 did. It's called "2.0".Quote:
Originally Posted by ChloeGrace
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06-25-2017, 04:59 PMVexSunkillerOn the look of the gauge is a matter of opinion. However it is a longer setup per say for the fact of its 10 stacks not 5 and fell cleave isnt spammy cause of the gauge its cause of inner release or do you not like that skill either. And I think it sets up well enough but in a pre tense matter. I usually build it right before a boss battle and then hit the boss as hard as I can in a burst and then keeping upheaval on cool down. Defiance warriors can do some serious damage now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderNarwhal
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06-25-2017, 05:10 PMReynhartAgreed. Personally, I'd also remove the Enhanced Infuriate (reduced CD for using beast skill...) trait but make Infuriate still gives you a full gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenosan
Which was also a consequence for PLD back when stance dancing interrupted combos, and still a consequence because if you switch back and forth too often you'll lose lots of damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart
Yes, but it was fixed in 2.1. On one side, I hope WAR is "fixed" in 4.1 but on the other side, it will raise questions if WAR gets fixed in 3 months both times, where PLD had to wait 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yagrush
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06-25-2017, 05:32 PMAtreidesI don't think that it will raise any questions I mean Yoshida did say that they will be looking on balancing the current tanks more as for the reason why they didn't release a new one this expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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06-25-2017, 06:24 PMReynhartTechnically, they were looking on balancing current tanks. Not that I was eager to see a 4th, but we didn' have a new tank because they were busy creating the current situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreides
Not a sounding success... :p
It still doesn't explain why they ignores PLD's problem in 3.x. It would have been easy to fix without waiting for a new expansion.
For example, allowing block to work on magic and applying PLD's own mitigation to Covered damage would have been nice steps. -
06-25-2017, 06:35 PMQuorAlready happened. We called it "2.0 prior to the IB change." Which, to be fair, only lasted about 6 months. But also to be fair, PLD was preferred over DRK until the more magic-heavy fights near the last third of HW. For 3.0-3.3 at least PLD was doing just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChloeGrace
Also, take this tank DnC and shove it. There's nary a hardcore tank on this forum that doesn't have at least 2 of 3 tanks leveled to 60. -
06-26-2017, 06:10 AMCommanderNarwhalYou're disregarding raid content wherein you cannot pre-build the gauge and I personally hate inner release. It feels like an unimaginative cheesy ability that tries to justify making fell cleave spam a thing and forces awkward setups with berserk that can lead to storm's eye falling off. Granted the storm's eye falloff can be avoided.Quote:
Originally Posted by VexSunkiller
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06-26-2017, 06:21 AMTakamorisan
4 changes IMO.
Remove stance dance penalty, reduce inner release cd to 60 seconds, separate Inner release from Unchained and raise butcher's block rage generation to 20. -
06-26-2017, 06:33 AMVexSunkillerI disregarded raid content for now because we dont have a raid yet and to be honest there is still some build up in some tier of the raid not all but some. I too dont like inner release but it cause IMO I dont like the deliverance tool kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderNarwhal
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06-26-2017, 01:40 PMShinkyo
The stance swap penalty is definitely too high for WAR given we are much more gauge savy than the other tanks for both mitigation and DPS.
Also, because we build and use gauge at 10 increments, we are even more penalized since we can't do anything with the gauge between 0-10.
i.e. Going from 50 to 25 from a switch is effectively losing 30 gauge we can never convert the 5 into anything...
And we be damn if an AOE forces us to pull away from the boss for a sec and make us miss the last FC and end up again at 25 gauge...
Really, SE should change the penalty for WAR to a flat 20 gauge and that would solve a lot of the issues. That and remove the shared CD between unchained and IR and WAR will be in a much better spot compare to the other tanks. -
06-26-2017, 01:48 PMJohidenWolf
I would say not have nearly ALL of Warrior move beast gauge dependent. Removing or lowering the costs of some skills would help.
Also give the WAR something that can do 360 degree pull. Steel Cyclone is alright for this but during an initial pull it feels like a waste, just for a group setup. Overpower is good but you must select a target for it to work, and it's only frontal.