Why was pvp chat disabled?

PvP is a team game no? After making a thread about sucking at it, I figured out what the general flowchart of execution is for each match.....except I can't ****ing tell anyone that's clearly as confused as I was.

It's also impossible to make simple suggestions like "get the adrenaline crate" or whatever.

I'm surprised nobody else cried about earlier..unless I missed it.

There has been a lot of negative feedback about this change. The topics were buried by discussion of the Stormblood changes though.

Here's one of the main threads: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...n-in-The-Feast

Thanks. I will go bump that thread cause wtf

.....does SE have a history of listening to players btw? Aside from the time where they almost sank the game with 1.0 lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lynart

Thanks. I will go bump that thread cause wtf

.....does SE have a history of listening to players btw? Aside from the time where they almost sank the game with 1.0 lol

---

I mean, that thread kind of answers your question doesn't it? =P

According the data that the devs have, it was pretty much only insults thrown left and right rather than strategic talk between party members.

Now someone will probably try to contradict this. Go right ahead. Give me your best shot.

I rather take the devs own words than some random player in these forums.

The hatred & unbelievably vile things that were said in chat got to the stage that almost every PVP game resulted in a report to the GM team. It was easier to ban chatting than dealing with the tens of thousands of complaints.

Well! Yoshi-P actually wanted to make a post on that before the release of Stormblood, according to an interview. It seems he conveniently forgot about that, though (Which I totally called >_>).

The only statement we have is a fan translation of an older interview, in which it was said there was more harassment/flame than strategy being discussed in the chat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lynart

.....does SE have a history of listening to players btw? Aside from the time where they almost sank the game with 1.0 lol

---

Well we've asked them to take GC restrictions out of frontlines for the longest time and it took them like 2-3 years to actually do it.
Then there's also all the requests and ideas for DRK buffs pre 4.0 to help it become viable and they went and buffed it in a way that didn't fix a damn thing. So it's really a big roll of dice whether they listen or not.

I'd love to have chat back. I'd also like to not have healing involve an endless parade of people telling me I ought to kill myself because they LoS my heals better than the enemy nukes.

tldr: it was becoming league of legends

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

The only statement we have is a fan translation of an older interview, in which it was said there was more harassment/flame than strategy being discussed in the chat.

---

That's because people don't send in reports about people discussing strategy. In my experience, there was far more constructive speaking and macros than general toxicity.

Yoshi, and SE in general, have no idea what they're talking about regarding PvP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KusoWat

That's because people don't send in reports about people discussing strategy. In my experience, there was far more constructive speaking and macros than general toxicity.

Yoshi, and SE in general, have no idea what they're talking about regarding PvP.

---

Even with chat gone, toxicity still exists with people who constantly spam "Nice job!" or "Good match!" whenever just one person (or even themself) dies.

Correction: they never lifted GC restriction because players were asking for it, but because they knew Garo event would be undoable if they kept it. And sometimes, I think the same reason along with toxicity apply to chat restriction: you know what happen when you stand between an average FF XIV player and his mount.

[Edit] And yeah, you don't send reports when people are actually discussing strategy for flaming. By experience, I've seen less toxicity in higher ranked match (plat/diamond) than in lowest rank. And in my personnal case, I'm far from being a good pvper but I've never been insulted/flamed, at best a few salty comments once or twice when I messed up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shut

By experience, I've seen less toxicity in higher ranked match (plat/diamond) than in lowest rank.

---

By my own experience, I haven't seen any noteworthy toxicity outside of ranked at all. The worst "Toxicity" I had in 8vs8 was some guy wishing they could give negative commendations to a guy who switched from being the sole healer in the team to a DPS like the rest. I haven't heard of toxicity from the older players who did Wolves Den at the time either - worst was wintrading for PvP rank farming. Frontlines happen to still have the chat, which doesn't surprise me - I haven't seen more than immature dick picture macros there either.

To me, it seems very clear the actual issue is Ranked and that's what should've been removed, not the chat. But that's beating a dead horse at this point - it's not gonna happen, especially with those lolzworthy E-Sports ambitions. And thus, neither is the chat restriction going to be lifted. It's quite the joke and the people who still take Ranked seriously the punchline. Personally, I just stick to frontlines - It's mindless chaos, there's bots, AFKlers... but at least I can crack a joke or two about them, rather than going:"Nice Job!"

I remember there was so much talk about toxic this and toxic that that I decided I wanted to start a "Salt Album" in Season 3 to screenshot and put in all of the toxic or salt or funny things that happen in chat. Out of the 150 or so games I played before the chat was removed, and I play a healer mind you, I only had two screenshots to show for it. And both those screenshots were just some salt directed at the enemy team and I had nothing mean directed towards myself or other teammates. I asked my friends to give me their screenshots so I could fill the album and though they did have actual salt in their screenshots, it was still only a very very small percentage of the games they played. That was when I realised that it really wasn't as common as people make it out to be. They just remember the games where people are mean more and somehow exaggerate it that it happens every game. Or they really do just need to improve, though people being toxic is still not excusable. (but you can still easily just report them and they'll be gone in a few seconds because chat harassment reports are the only reports gms respond to)

I based my thought on what I saw in feast 4v4 before chat was removed only, so I can't really compare with 8v8 back then cause it was almost impossible to pop before garo event. However, you're right that ranked can turn peoples into assholes (especially with that poor matchmaking), but it's up to SE to bring tools for moderation (some have been already proposed in other threads) instead of just muting everyone.
And tbh, we have yet to see GM taking actions when it comes to punish cheaters/afkers/wintraders, and some were well known by both pve community and SE team, and that's only a mistake from SE. It only comfort into the thinking that SE has no clue how pvp works, and the new pvp changes don't help either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ailis

tldr: it was becoming league of legends

---

You do not play any MOBA if you think XIV has been anywhere near a MOBA in terms of toxicity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OskarXCI

According the data that the devs have, it was pretty much only insults thrown left and right rather than strategic talk between party members.

Now someone will probably try to contradict this. Go right ahead. Give me your best shot.

I rather take the devs own words than some random player in these forums.

---

Challenge Accepted.

As someone who played Feast pretty heavily, I can say by and large - at least by my own experience - that insults and toxicity weren't nearly as bad as people have been led to believe. Think about it: In a community so small as the PvP community, what do you possibly gain tearing down others and making a name for yourself as a toxic player, especially when you may VERY likely be on that same guy's team next match? Personally speaking, I want to communicate and win more than I want to insult or put down someone on my team.

Sure, there were some bad apples. Some. Hardly the majority, so don't believe the hype. But the same is true within the PvE side of the community, thus I ask why banning chat has never been a tabled solution there? Truthfully, the verdict is still out on the matter, and Yoshi P has yet to speak on it like he said he would. The community spoke out - 88 pages or so - of disapproval for the idea, and it was pushed anyways, despite the bigger problems it would cause. It hasn't solved any toxicity issues. It in fact, made it worse. Especially because the larger majority of decent, helpful players - myself included - are forced into silence now too. The many were punished for the actions of a few, and it was not necessary.

So then, with that said, please share with us what words you have from the devs that somehow holds more credibility than my own firsthand experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Challenge Accepted.

So then, with that said, please share with us what words you have from the devs that somehow holds more credibility than my own firsthand experience.

---

That's good and all but those that want have strategic talk are the minority.

Check Live Letter 33.

gamerescape made a summary

"- Chat disabled during battles"
"- Due to the majority of chat containing harassment and not actual strategy."

Can you say the "majority" isn't a skewed result based on reports? You know, because who reports their team discussing strategies, or actually having legit, non-toxic conversations?

It's easy to look at what's wrong and make rash decisions (a la chat restrictions) and completely overlook all that's actually good in the process. Which is what they did. No harrassment, but no strategy either. And no instructions for all the new players they brought in after that. Also again, I raise you the notable double standard in that toxicity happens in PvE content too, and as it's been far more popular, one could say "the majority of [PvE] chat. . .", so why hasn't a chat ban been considered for that then?

If I had chat back half my matches would probably be me yelling unflattering things at the party so I can kind of understand why they took it away?

People have started to spam macros instead which is super annoying but hey, at least it's not people telling each other to kill themselves.

Lv 30+ tanks going 20+ matches sitting at full mp, spamming incomplete combos, taking offense/defense kit, wolf heart, etc. while seemlessly somehow avoiding every medal stack.

Lv 30+ tanks going 100+ matches 7+ stacking every game, dodging heals but tanking fire ivs.

Having literally 0 tools to tell them even the basics of their role. It's been obvious for quite a long time that SE has no idea wtf to do with PvP.

PvP will never be anything but the side of a side attraction for FFxiv. It'll only ever be decent when the devs begin to care, which they never have or will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Can you say the "majority" isn't a skewed result based on reports? You know, because who reports their team discussing strategies, or actually having legit, non-toxic conversations?

---

What makes you think SE only have access to the chat when someone files a report? They see the chat all the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

It's easy to look at what's wrong and make rash decisions (a la chat restrictions) and completely overlook all that's actually good in the process. Which is what they did. No harrassment, but no strategy either. And no instructions for all the new players they brought in after that. Also again, I raise you the notable double standard in that toxicity happens in PvE content too, and as it's been far more popular, one could say "the majority of [PvE] chat. . .", so why hasn't a chat ban been considered for that then?

---

Why isn't the chat disabled in PvE as well? Maybe because PvE consists of more than 2 instances.

Anyone saying they didn't experience toxicity or minimum toxicity in Feast is lucky.

It was a constant stream of healer hate for the longest time. It was so bad lots of healers I know just stopped queuing up as healers.

Although slightly annoying when it was gone, because it does make legitimate coordination harder, many rejoiced in the bliss that was a silent non-verbal assault when pants on head retarded dps rushed to their deaths and started screaming for heals and how bad you were for not keeping them alive.