Gathering gears needs Vitality.

The disparity in HP vs Monster Damage output has gotten to a point where you can be two shot by anything in the new zones. The pathetic HP pool of DoL jobs is getting sad.

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Originally Posted by Gaelborne

The disparity in HP vs Monster Damage output has gotten to a point where you can be two shot by anything in the new zones. The pathetic HP pool of DoL jobs is getting sad.

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yeah i notice the same problem my battle job has 23k HP lvl 60 while my lvl 70 BNT has only 2,9k i had a mob with hit me with a 4,5k crit oneshot me xD but once you can fly its become no matter anymore.

regards hobbit

i wouldn't mind more vitality; what i would really like is a trap skill that binds and DoTs the mob. there are plenty of times where you knife-edge the landing with a mob nearby being able to stealth in time, and i wouldn't mind a skill that would better enable us to gather in peace.

You use to be able to throw stones and stun mobs in 1.0 but they ditched it going into 2.0.

It wouldn't be a bad idea if, they let go stealth while mounted

Its literally so bad that I have to change jobs before traveling just to make sure I wont get 2 shotted by ranged attacking monsters like the ones that cast aero in the peaks. HP needs to scale much more higher.

I think their "answer" to this problem, which has existed in one form or another since launch, is the new ability to change jobs anywhere outside without penalty. That way you can approach an area flying as DoL then change to DoW/DoM before landing, change back to DoL do your stuff. If you need to kill beasties then you have no cooldowns to worry about like in the past.

That said, I think more vitality is essential too. The best way would be to increase it naturally as we level up or to use traits to increase the HP. Having Vit as a gear stat could throw things off as it hasn't been used before.

Having to change to a DoW/M class while gathering every time a monster respawns so you don't risk getting one or two shotted is a horribly clunky "solution". Just give us more base vitality, and get rid of the huge movement speed penalty on Stealth.

Plus it takes me a full minute or more to kill stuff at my level as AST right now, which is the only battle class I have leveled so far.

I have mixed thoughts on this. The only time I've actually died while gathering is when an ARR A rank spawned right next to me, and I got one-shotted. However, I have aggroed mobs on a handful of occasions, and got away. What I found annoying was not being able to quickly disengage from the node.

I do think we need something. Whether it is increased vitality, no movement penalty with stealth, or both. Something fun I was thinking of is we may not be able to combat, but that hatchet or pickaxe has still got to hurt right? Why not give us an ability only accessible while gathering that stuns the mob for a few seconds so we can escape?

The reason this is intentionally aggravating is the same reason that fishermen would regular get eaten by the Sea Horror in FFXI: Economic control. Gatherers are spawning items, and therefore money, out of thin air. SE is going to keep gathering dangerous even at level cap in the new areas.

I will say that it becomes considerably easier when you unlock flying in a zone, because then you can swoop in and stealth before anything eats you.

agree with op

Greetings,

We've relayed your concerns regarding the HP of Disciples of the Land classes to the dev. team, and they mentioned they will consider making adjustments.

Also, we tried to make it so enemies aren't too close to gathering nodes, but if you notice any nodes where you get attacked too often, please be sure to let us know the area and coordinates! We'll also look into making adjustments to these as well!

there's a mammoth that wanders every closely to the othard plum unspoiled nodes

That's what Stealth is for though, it's not going to kill you to land somewhere safe, pop stealth, then walk over to the node. Even Azlyia's Adamantite Ore had this issue with all the little mobs that could aggro around you. How do people get past this? They use Stealth.

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Greetings,

We've relayed your concerns regarding the HP of Disciples of the Land classes to the dev. team, and they mentioned they will consider making adjustments.

Also, we tried to make it so enemies aren't too close to gathering nodes, but if you notice any nodes where you get attacked too often, please be sure to let us know the area and coordinates! We'll also look into making adjustments to these as well!

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The Chaochus near the unspoiled node for Doman Yellow in Azim Steppes are regularly aggroed by people resetting their node and flying too low causing the mob to aoe when it gets close enough to them, which happens to be on the node. Also the bears crowding Beech Branch unspoiled nodes in Fringes are a problem for lower levels.

Been oneshoted flying in Azim Steppe. I was flying a bit low but I do not think I should need to fly 10 miles in the air to avoid aggro. Basically I was just over the monster height going to a node, thought I was fine and got oneshoted. I do not like having GP being reset over something like that.

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Originally Posted by Airget

That's what Stealth is for though

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Then the design itself wouldn't have been to place mobs a relatively safe distance away from all the gathering nodes. If stealth was ever supposed to be used extensively, mobs should have easily spawned on top of nodes and patrol past node groups. But they don't.

I don't mind if gathering gains a stealthing gameplay element by letting mobs wander frequently into node locations, but it would need to be a lot more engaging than just stealth, as stealth alone (in its current implementation) would feel like simply a flat movement speed nerf, making gathering extremely frustrating.

To make use of stealth extensively, some kind of speed increase would be needed. Perhaps make it so that if a stealthed player is within aggro range of a mob, the player gains an "Cautious" debuff that slows down movement speed to the current stealth speed. When the player isn't within aggro range of any mob, then we move at the regular run speed. Then implement some kind of diversion skill (e.g. throwing a stone) on a short cooldown with a small GP cost that would temporarily cause all mobs within a distance to move over towards the designated direction for some time, giving the player back the normal run speed to move to the next node.

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Originally Posted by Airget

That's what Stealth is for though, it's not going to kill you to land somewhere safe, pop stealth, then walk over to the node. Even Azlyia's Adamantite Ore had this issue with all the little mobs that could aggro around you. How do people get past this? They use Stealth.

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While I agree stealth has a place, it feels pretty crummy to fly too low, or for a mob to wander closer than you thought/if you just somehow missed it. Sometimes it's people being reckless or whatever, for any reason, but I just think it's aggravating to not have enough HP to reasonably be able to escape with your life. In ARR there wasn't too huge a risk of death if you got aggro'd if you just booked it. In HW risk for death was a bit higher, but not like it is in SB. Aggro in SB is often just a death sentence.

Bring back rock throw - that stuns the mob for 5 seconds (instead of increasing VIT).

Add some gameplay to it. I personally enjoy the scary near-death experiences I have had while gathering..
Those green ghost/blob things in the Lochs actually destroyed me one day - because they are ranged.
Was mounted and flying up to de-aggro him, but 2-shotted by their ranged Aero.

I like the dangers of DoL with such low VIT. It's a fresh change to feel as though I am in danger in the open world, while running around as a DoL.
Just give us the old Rock Throw with a 5 second stun to add to the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

The reason this is intentionally aggravating is the same reason that fishermen would regular get eaten by the Sea Horror in FFXI: Economic control. Gatherers are spawning items, and therefore money, out of thin air. SE is going to keep gathering dangerous even at level cap in the new areas.

I will say that it becomes considerably easier when you unlock flying in a zone, because then you can swoop in and stealth before anything eats you.

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I missed that sea horror. Used to fish off that boat for hours.

I remember I'd fly through those stationary AoE fields while gathering in the Diadem and get killed fairly often if I forgot to bring max potions with me. Like it wasn't even an enemy and I pretty far off the ground but I still got killed because even the mildest of 60 DoTs is enough to kill a gatherer with the tiny amount of HP we have.

Hp for gatherers is just another thing bots have one up on us. Everything we have that slows down bots just hampers real players and has little to no effect on bots.
We have stealth that slows us down vs they just teleport all over
We have low hp and mobs near nodes vs botters just warp in and out.
We have low gp regeneration yet due to them hitting nodes faster they get gp back faster.

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Originally Posted by Aniond

I missed that sea horror. Used to fish off that boat for hours.

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Hey you were fine on the stairs!

It was kind of hilarious, actually; the boat could be under full-scale pirate attack with skeletons littering the deck and a Sea Horror running amok in the hold slaughtering the cowering newbies - and there you are, calmly fishing on the staircase, perfectly safe from it all.

On the topic of discussion, though, yeah, a bit more survivability on gatherers would be most welcome. Flight may be a thing, but when you slip up and get the attention of a ranged attacker, it's just irritating how quickly you die.

If SE can't increase our HP because bots perhaps an FC action that makes all enemies neutral as long your class is a DoL.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I like the dangers of DoL with such low VIT. It's a fresh change to feel as though I am in danger in the open world, while running around as a DoL.

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You must never have gathered in diadem to call the dangers "fresh".

God forbid the world monsters EVER feel dangerous. Sad to see this change. Guess gathering is just a license to print money now.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

God forbid the world monsters EVER feel dangerous. Sad to see this change. Guess gathering is just a license to print money now.

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We're not asking for the same level of health needed to tank a dungeon. You would still have to stealth with 7,000 hp (versus the current like 2,500) in an area with level 70 mobs. When you have no combat abilities and a limited dash you are still dead if you hesitate to run or you aggro 2 mobs. Most people would just like to be able to survive more than one hit from a range attack they flew away from which forces them to either reset and probably miss their node or yell for a res and hope someone is in the area and able to help you in a timely manner.

The real challenge of gathering was always knowing how to play the market and what to hit when to make the best profit with the amount of time you are personally willing to commit to things. Not Solid Snake-ing the secret mats out of the caterpillar base.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I think their "answer" to this problem, which has existed in one form or another since launch, is the new ability to change jobs anywhere outside without penalty. That way you can approach an area flying as DoL then change to DoW/DoM before landing, change back to DoL do your stuff. If you need to kill beasties then you have no cooldowns to worry about like in the past.

That said, I think more vitality is essential too. The best way would be to increase it naturally as we level up or to use traits to increase the HP. Having Vit as a gear stat could throw things off as it hasn't been used before.

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That's more for DF. Even if it had been for gatherers it's such a clunky "fix". This really boils down to this one question:

Would it really be that gamebreaking to give gatherers 10k hp? Even 20k hp, what exactly could they do with that that would be abusive in any way?

I would have to second the ridiculous numbers of mobs in the Fringes.

And to you people saying "USE STEALTH!" ... uh, I don't find walking for 5 minutes... or shall I say, crawling... from node-to-node all that fun.

Back before Heavensward when nodes were grouped near each other, Stealth wasn't such a bad thing.

But ever since Heavensward, they decided they should put 200+ malms between pairs of nodes, then it becomes a problem, especially before you unlock flying. And wouldn't you know it, the very first zone to do Botany in, Fringes, has a TON of not only aggressive mobs, but SOUND aggressive mobs. All of those Saprias and Leshys are very annoying because you can't sneak past them without Stealth, at all. And they can and very much will two-shot you.

IMO, DoL should have at least 15k HP so that you can at least run away from the stupid thing, or allow Stealth to be usable in combat, and also to break combat.

I'm not sure what you guys are doing to get the mobs attention that require you to need more hp, so far i've managed to get all 3 gathering jobs to 66 and only died once. I've also farmed mining / botanist materials in the lochs and have yet to get the monsters attention, though I have seen a few people begging for res but i've put that down to them being lazy and not wanting to move from their location.

Maeka, you're using stealth wrong if you are walking from node to node.... you have a flying mount that helps with travel time and so far i've only seen one location that requires you to use stealth to walk between two nodes. The rest of the time running and using the mount is all that is needed.

Well, considering this thread was made in the very early days of SB, most people didn't have flying yet. While that certainly made it a lot better, it's still worth considering gatherers who don't yet have flying unlocked.

There are also several nodes where it's very very easy to aggro monsters as you are flying, mostly in Azim Steppe but also in Peaks. There are also a lot of nodes where mobs can wander close by and you can aggro them landing at the wrong time or just a tad too close.

I think the issue people are having is less that they can die while gathering, and more that in ARR and even HW, you at least stood a minor chance of getting away if something did aggro on you. Now you have no chance at all. I haven't died while gathering since getting flying either, but there's literally no negative repercussions of a change like this.

In HW I found you generated low to no enmity and had to go out of your way to aggro mobs. Lowered enmity in the gathering gear should be a thing but it's good to know ahead of time I'm supposed to play run away, run away in SB.

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Greetings,

We've relayed your concerns regarding the HP of Disciples of the Land classes to the dev. team, and they mentioned they will consider making adjustments.

Also, we tried to make it so enemies aren't too close to gathering nodes, but if you notice any nodes where you get attacked too often, please be sure to let us know the area and coordinates! We'll also look into making adjustments to these as well!

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Wouldn't it be much less work to just give gatherers some HP than trying to nail down individual nodes with enemies too close? We don't have a problem getting agro, we have a problem getting agro and dying from ranged attacks before being able to lose the agro.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I would have to second the ridiculous numbers of mobs in the Fringes.

And to you people saying "USE STEALTH!" ... uh, I don't find walking for 5minutes... or shall I say, crawling... from node-to-node all that fun.

Back before Heavensward when nodes were grouped near each other, Stealth wasn't such a bad thing.

But ever since Heavensward, they decided they should put 200+ malms between pairs of nodes, then it becomes a problem, especially before you unlock flying. And wouldn't you know it, the very first zone to do Botany in, Fringes, has a TON of not only aggressive mobs, but SOUND aggressive mobs. All of those Saprias and Leshys are very annoying because you can't sneak past them without Stealth, at all. And they can and very much will two-shot you.

IMO, DoL should have at least 15k HP so that you can at least run away from the stupid thing, or allow Stealth to be usable in combat, and also to break combat.

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If you are trying to gather in Fringes to level, there is a group of BTN/MIN nodes that you can rotate off of that not only has pretty much no aggro, but reasonable walking distance. You have to keep changing and gathering between BTN and MIN to stay in that little area though to make the nodes trigger to appear again. It was a little trick I used while in that 2 day long purgatory.

When you have flying it is pretty much a non-issue for Fringes. My personal issues is with steppes and peaks where stuff can kill you while mounted because of rage attacks that 1 shot or 2 shot you.

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Originally Posted by AxelDH

Maybe we could allow gatherers to equip the Vit accessories that drop from raids? (The Tanks dont seem to want them anyway!)

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I actually did that in the Diadem since dying would just deplete are your gp anyway. It was insane how much health it gave you.

LESHY ;,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;

And if you manage to dodge the Leshy mobs then there are the damned gazelle hawks off the path. Without a flying mount in the Fringes it's a gamble on whether you can even get to the nodes down by the river. I hated having to go in when doing collectibles during the 2 day MSQ hiatus because I knew I would have to run the leshy/gazelle hawk gauntlet back down to the river. The mob density there is a bit nuts.

Yeah, lack of VIT on gathering gear winds up turning gathering into a bit of a survival horror game...

Torreya Log in the Lochs. There's a mob that looks like a treeman. He is too close to it and killing me in 2 hits.

Finally made it to Stormblood and yep, Gathering either mining or botany is a dead art. We are scouts for retainers. I was 65 in all three gathering when I hit SB and the mobs 2 shot me no trouble. You need to turtle around in stealth full time. Unlike HW the mobs don't aggro on line of sight, it's 360 and enmity to aggro is boss level AoE range. They either need to massively reduce our enmity, return to line of sight or give stealth movement a massive buff, like 500%. As it is all gathering will be done by retainers and bots. ATK is too time consuming and mindless.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Finally made it to Stormblood and yep, Gathering either mining or botany is a dead art. We are scouts for retainers. I was 65 in all three gathering when I hit SB and the mobs 2 shot me no trouble. You need to turtle around in stealth full time. Unlike HW the mobs don't aggro on line of sight, it's 360 and enmity to aggro is boss level AoE range. They either need to massively reduce our enmity, return to line of sight or give stealth movement a massive buff, like 500%. As it is all gathering will be done by retainers and bots. ATK is too time consuming and mindless.

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Aggro type is dependent on mob. I'm guessing a saphia killed you? Mobs without eyes aggro on sound and not sight - you can actually walk past them. Once you unlock flight, gathering becomes much easier. Extra VIT would be nice to give more of a chance at survival when accidentally spotted, though..