Plenary Indulgence issues and how to fix them

Here are just some problems I personally have with the WHM skill Plenary Indulgence after playing it in the level 70 dungeons a couple times.
Let me first explain how the skill works and then the issue I have with it. Your Cure and Cure 2 each have a 20% chance to grant one stack of Confession to party members. At most you can have 3 stacks and with each stack rises the healing potency of Plenary Indulgence (1 stack 400 potency, 2 stacks 500 potency, 3 stacks 600 potency). Confession lasts for 30 seconds.
Now I noticed that it is quite hard to find good use for this skill. Occasionally a Confession is triggered when focusing on the tank and rarely enough healing is required to somehow manage to get 2 stacks of Confession, let alone have multiple stacks on multiple party members at the same time - that would require an immense amount of overhealing, MP and luck. At the moment I am using Plenary Indulgence whenever I happen to get one Confession stack since I gave up hope on getting a second or even thrid one when it matters. The timer would run out before it or the fight would end.

The only use I see for this skill currently is to have a bit of extra healing when a lot of heavy single target damage is happening over a longer period of time (a12s the General Might and General Time adds for example) and even then it needs a lot of luck to get more than 1 stack at a time since the chance to trigger them is so low.

Now here is a suggestion as to what could be changed:
First of all I would give either Cure or Cure 2 a 100% chance to grant a Confession stack and I would do the same with Medica and Medica 2. Although only for the first stack. The second stack of Confession would have a lower percentage chance to be granted by those skills and the third an even lower one (I reckon it would be too overpowered otherwise, getting a 600 potency instant heal that easily). What exactly the lower percentages are I leave up for discussion, though I suggest maybe 50% and 30% or something along those lines.

(On a side note Devine Benison's shield should be scaled of the amount of lilies you have >.>)

Sorry for the long text, but as a WHM main this was something I thought deserves a fix. Keep in mind that this is purely my opnion and I think I was very polite about it We also don't know how it plays in raids yet, but this at least are the problems I noticed when running dungeons :P

What do you guys think? Should SquareEnix change the Plenary Indulgence skill or is it fine as it is?
Share your thoughts

You can bypass the character limit by editing your post.

I did not know, thank you \o/

If they would make the cure and cure 2 have a much higher, like 75%, and the aoe heals cure 3, medica and medica 2 have the 20%, then I would be happy.

But since it is a single target heal to the person with the stacks and the AoE part is to trigger anyone with a stack that is within 30y of you, that I am finding it only possible to have the tank get the heals from this.

I definitely think it needs adjusted, AND I DON'T PLAY WHM. I play sch and ast, but even I see that this needs some work. I don't mind the lilly stuff, but this thing was just kinda silly. At least extend the duration of confession stacks. Otherwise you feel like you have to pump out cure1/2 to make use of it, which.... may not be the best course of action due to aggro and mp consumption.

If was me, I would have it so the confession stacks were on myself. I heal a party member with cure/cure II say a 50% chance. I can then use those stacks as a free medica.

SE really dropped the ball with WHM. Not sure what's going on but the 60-70 skills are a joke. The lily system sucks, the traits suck, Stone 4 sucks, Plenary Indulgence sucks, the mechanics suck... and don't even get me started on Divine Benison, that sorry excuse for a skill. It's like they have never even played WHM before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

SE really dropped the ball with WHM. Not sure what's going on but the 60-70 skills are a joke. The lily system sucks, the traits suck, Stone 4 sucks, Plenary Indulgence sucks, the mechanics suck... and don't even get me started on Divine Benison, that sorry excuse for a skill. It's like they have never even played WHM before.

---

WHM is actually pretty good Plenary Indulgence aside we basically have unlimited MP now and Divine Benison is great not sure what your talking about and Thin Air is OP, Stone 4 is basically the same upgrade we got from stone 2-3 and lily system is not that bad.

All of WHM's issues could be solved by providing Lilies and Confessions at 10% and 20% chance respectively for each Regen tick.

Stone potency:
140 > 200 > 210 > 250
A whole 10 potency for t3.
Another stone upgrade was pointless, should have just changed the T3.

Divine Benison is TRASH. Don't even try to sugarcoat it. It drains all lilies for no additional effect, only lasts 15 sec, 30 sec cd, no visual so it's boring to use, a waste of what should be a "cool new skill" since it's in-essence just a reskin of a level 34 ability with more restrictions on a job that is already lacking abilities. At least Stoneskin looked cool and could be cast on random people.

Plenary Indulgence: RNG based heal, what every MMO healer wants.
Also let's implement an underwhelming job mechanic that you wont even see until lv52, then create an unnecessary, convoluted heal that completely dissembled their design aim for making it easier to manage and visualize things like stacks.

Dmg and utility compared to other healers seems lacking, especially when nobody needs healing and all you can do is throw rocks and hot air.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

"feedback"

---

play it at 70 then give feedback. that is exactly what yoshida stated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

Stone potency:
140 > 200 > 210 > 250

Divine Benison is TRASH. Don't even try to sugarcoat it. It drains all lilies for no additional effect, only lasts 15 sec, 30 sec cd, no visual so it's boring to use, a waste of what should be a "cool new skill" since it's in-essence just a reskin of a level 34 ability with more restrictions on a job that is already lacking abilities. At least Stoneskin looked cool and could be cast on random people.



Dmg and utility compared to other healers seems lacking, especially when nobody needs healing and all you can do is throw rocks and hot air.

---

Stone II was 170 potency before SB so it was 140>170>210>250

white mage damage has always been the highest between the healers and now that we have no mp issues and can use Assize way more frequently we are going to be the best DPS healer, Divine Benison is OGCD which makes in much better then Stoneskin ever was

Honestly, just keep things as is and make confession stack remain until you exit combat. This would allow you more in the way of strategy as to when you use the stacks, and have more impact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

SE really dropped the ball with WHM. Not sure what's going on but the 60-70 skills are a joke. The lily system sucks, the traits suck, Stone 4 sucks, Plenary Indulgence sucks, the mechanics suck... and don't even get me started on Divine Benison, that sorry excuse for a skill. It's like they have never even played WHM before.

---

Everything you are complaining about I like. Only Confession stacks need some work imo. The skill Plenary Indulgence itself s fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raim

All of WHM's issues could be solved by providing Lilies and Confessions at 10% and 20% chance respectively for each Regen tick.

---

Lilies are easy to generate.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

Divine Benison is TRASH. Don't even try to sugarcoat it. It drains all lilies for no additional effect, only lasts 15 sec, 30 sec cd, no visual so it's boring to use, a waste of what should be a "cool new skill" since it's in-essence just a reskin of a level 34 ability with more restrictions on a job that is already lacking abilities. At least Stoneskin looked cool and could be cast on random people.

---

And thats why you use it when you ONLY have ONE lily. I agree it should get stronger with more lilies but for now,theres no problem with simply only using it when you have 1 lily.

Quick buff up for your tank? Cure II > Regen > Divine Benison. its instant, its oGCD. I actually use it a lot. Stoneskin I never really used inside battles (maybe if someone had the weakness debuff in a11s and needed a shield to survive the next AoEs...or to shield the OT during G-100....). So its not really garbage.



Other than that I agree that 20% proc chance on plenary indulgence is way too low.
As a vivid DPS healer I would love the idea of easily generating those confession stacks so I can dps and just "pull the trigger" for a nice back-up heal while I keep on dpsing...but even if I spam a few Cure IIs (I kinda did it for a while to test how likely the proc is to happen) I may at best get 1 stack if im lucky. And oh boy,it does drain my MP. Not worth it.

Aside from the very obvious need for it's proc rate and way to proc needing to be changed (you need more control with something like this, I'm regularly popping indulgence on full health tanks).

It needs to not have a duration to it. It needs to have a static buff.

And one Confession should work as an AOE heal targetted around the player who has it.

For example, the tank has confessions. Using plenary on him should heal everyone around him for a certain amount.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Aside from the very obvious need for it's proc rate and way to proc needing to be changed (you need more control with something like this, I'm regularly popping indulgence on full health tanks).

It needs to not have a duration to it. It needs to have a static buff.

And one Confession should work as an AOE heal targetted around the player who has it.

For example, the tank has confessions. Using plenary on him should heal everyone around him for a certain amount.

---

That would be a massive buff to the skill. Removing its duration so Confession stacks don't fall off would be more than enough.

I would remove the rng completely tbh.

Ast bomb heal only need to wait 10s to explode at 720 potency.

Just increase Plenary Indulgnce CD to 30s.
Make confession proc at 100% when using Cure and Medica.
Remove the duration on confession stack.
Lower the healing potency.

Anyway, balance this skill and get rid of the RNG and it will be better.
Grantings "heal stack" is an awesome idea. But not with chance to proc it.

If I had my way, PI would be a damage skill in part. Like a super Assize or something. WHM really didn't need yet another blippin pure heal in their kit, much less one that's based on low proc chances from more potent heals. By the time I have a stack, the person's usually healed enough that I don't need to heal them again outside of Regen. The only exception so far has been big pulls by tanks who don't use defensive CDs (y u do dis to me) and Susano'o EX/Shinryu when the other healer is dead or not paying attention. The stacks fall off before I can use them in a meaningful way too, so I find myself just pushing the button because I can so I don't feel like I wasted a proc.

The idea behind it is nice: a free heal when you proc it, giving you some opportunities to conserve mana (HA HA), save a different OGCD like Tetra, or DPS a little more. But the proc rate is so low and the actual times I get to use it and feel good are few and far between. And it's the last skill we learn- usually they're the best one that ties our whole kit together. Very disappointing. I understand that SE wants WHM to be the best "HP goes up" healer, but PI is really really bad in how it works.

I will settle for lilies, since they're not offensively bad even if they're incredibly boring. But if you're not going to give WHM fun things to make up for what was taken in 4.0, at least make PI useful and worthy of being our level 70 skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

SE really dropped the ball with WHM. Not sure what's going on but the 60-70 skills are a joke. The lily system sucks, the traits suck, Stone 4 sucks, Plenary Indulgence sucks, the mechanics suck... and don't even get me started on Divine Benison, that sorry excuse for a skill. It's like they have never even played WHM before.

---

And you suck too right?
Stone IV sucks, lol... thin air ? Divine benision is better than stoneskin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunari4

Stone potency:
140 > 200 > 210 > 250
A whole 10 potency for t3.
Another stone upgrade was pointless, should have just changed the T3.

---

Remember Aero? I wonder if those changes had anything to do with the stone potency.

Quote:

---

Divine Benison is TRASH. Don't even try to sugarcoat it. It drains all lilies for no additional effect, only lasts 15 sec, 30 sec cd, no visual so it's boring to use, a waste of what should be a "cool new skill" since it's in-essence just a reskin of a level 34 ability with more restrictions on a job that is already lacking abilities. At least Stoneskin looked cool and could be cast on random people.

---

DB is great and way better than stoneskin. Stoneskin was a dead skill the majority of the time and just not worth casting. DB is nice for every engagement. Dont "need" the shield? Then: cure II > Regen > DB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

And you suck too right?
Stone IV sucks, lol... thin air ? Divine benision is better than stoneskin.

---

What I'm saying is they should have just made stone 3 stronger instead of giving us a t4 version. With the combining of skill tiers, they removed the slow from stone 1 and now we have to waste a role slot just to take a slow instead of it being in our kit for free. They also took a little damage by removing one of our aero stacks (I hear they did that with other healers too) and then more or less gave that damage back with the addition of stone 4. That's not so bad in itself, I didn't like having to throw 3 dots all the time that were all GCDs but I still would have rather gotten an entirely new ability instead of stone 4. Thin Air is probably the best ability we gained in the update and tbh the only uses I can get out of it is holy spam or free rez, which I've got no problem with. It just feels like they rushed whm changes tho.

I still think DB should only use 1 lily and have 3 charges which each take 20 seconds to recover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Lilies are easy to generate.....

---

They're not easy to generate if you're playing right. People have gone back and recorded their dungeon and even A12S runs in order to check how many times they use Cure and Cure II and its usually single digit. The vast majority of WHM healing is done through abilities on cooldown and through Regen. Regen has to have an effect on Lilies to make this work.

I think 20% is probably too low a rate for Plenary Indulgence, but what I would like to see is a much longer duration on the confession stacks. I've rarely gotten more than two at once, and generally kind of waste them because no good opportunity comes up within 30 seconds anyway. At a 20% proc rate, trying to extend the duration is usually a waste, too. If we could save them for when they're actually needed, they might have some value. Maybe every Cure or Cure II could refresh the duration, even if it doesn't grant another stack? Or just make the duration unlimited.

Also, I wanted to note that lilies do have their usual effect on the recast for Divine Benison. It's not particularly necessary since the cooldown is so short, but they don't actually go to waste. And 95% of my Divine Benisons come immediately following a Cure II with no lilies in reserve, I've found them very useful and easy to use.

1. Divine Benison should only take one lily away with a shorter CD so it can be used more frequently.
2. Confession stacks should be on yourself, and without a timer, allowing more versatility for Plenary Indulgence.

That's all I'd really change right now. Rest is fine.

I think what you've suggested is a wonderful trade off. First you get the 100% proc and the others will have a lower %. So you still get the move, but you aren't making it 100% on everything, at the same time you're raising that % by adding in other heals besides Cure / Cure II to the mix.

I think we will see an update to the WHM system soon, I am already geared up and trying to take it to 70 along with SCH, I have no gripes about it yet I just notice the very thin line of when a Lily will proc, and regen / medicas are just as much on our skill set as Cure / Cure II.

I also agree with the DB, make it scale to the lilies you have or let it only use one. That's one move that won't be a huge benefit to the % reduction. Though I guess if you're able to generate more lilies the 6 second reduction could easily add up. I think one feeds the other. Can't wait to get some time over the holiday to really run with my healers. Been having too much fun tanking.