Tanks and healers.

I m seeing a lot of comments about healers and tanks not wanting to dps. BUT what if I as a healer and tank love to dps and stance dance. I love the thrill and reward coming out of it and the decision making. I get if you don't feel save doing that and you want to play safe. BUT if they Will keep making changes that classes will be easier and straightforward I Will loose the interest to be playing the game. That's what I feel happened to wow. Sometimes making game easier isn't the solution in my opinion. It's the problem with people being strict about the playstyle not the game. I m just hoping that stance dance will still be a thing for tanks which I don't think it will be after reading the notes for SB. Anyone agree disagree? Let me know what you think.

...Did you really have to open this can of worms with yet another thread?

I mean it's fine to say you want stance dancing to stay for tanks, but... you loaded this in the worst way possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...Did you really have to open this can of worms with yet another thread?

I mean it's fine to say you want stance dancing to stay for tanks, but... you loaded this in the worst way possible.

---

What do you mean I loaded this in a worst way? Am I being rude in my discussion :c ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

What do you mean I loaded this in a worst way? Am I being rude in my discussion :c ?

---

Healer DPS arguments always turn into 100+ page barely-not-flamewars. Tank DPS... there's not really real argument there, it's people trolling about the healer DPS stuff. If you're lucky it won't move over to this thread but... it's a dangerous thing to bring up, especially if you want your thread to stay on topic. Not rudeness so much as playing with nitroglycerin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Healer DPS arguments always turn into 100+ page barely-not-flamewars. Tank DPS... there's not really real argument there, it's people trolling about the healer DPS stuff. If you're lucky it won't move over to this thread but... it's a dangerous thing to bring up, especially if you want your thread to stay on topic. Not rudeness so much as playing with nitroglycerin.

---

Thanks for letting me know. After all I'm still new to the forum :3.

Here I'm praying SE reconsider war, we don't only lose ton of skill an utility but also a penalty for stance dancing.(the game punish you by using the stacks you need to use your skills)
I'm gonna give it a go but I just don't feel exited about the job anymore.
Been a war since 1.0 an never feel this way about it, not even in 2.0 xD.

Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahp. Please.

edit: Nothing bad against you OP, this is just a time bomb in waiting, unfortunately.

I don't know how about my tank brothers but if my tank job will be only about keeping agroo in dungeons. I will be admiring paladins as a dragoon behind the mobs ;3.. I love dark knight and warrior but if my only reason to throw in some dps is as off tank by clicking cleave 6 times in a row I might not come back to tanking. Being said that stormblood is not out yet and nothing is final I m just sharing my concerns about the info they provided. I still have to experience the content to be 100 % sure. I will give it a go but that's what I hate about abilities revamp in mmo. I was provided with the gameplay I like and admire and now it's being taken away from me. Sorry if my input is another thread of baby cry but at least I'll have the feeling I tried. Thank you for reading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahp. Please.

edit: Nothing bad against you OP, this is just a time bomb in waiting, unfortunately.

---

Tick tock tick tock tick tock xD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

Snip

---

Tank dps isnt really an issue. In fact if you check out the Tank section with any regularity it is most often filled with threads of tanks looking to increase their dps while doing their primary job. SE has never really been a fan of us tank stance dancing, ala SB changes, but give it some time and we will figure out ways to push it.

Healer dps is a classic emotion vs. logic debate. Good luck ever changing that one. It is so bad people here dont even want to mention it for fear it would bring toxicity to the forums. *shrugs* Until SE take an official stance on it and conform gameplay to that position - it will continue ad nauseam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Healer DPS arguments always turn into 100+ page barely-not-flamewars. Tank DPS... there's not really real argument there, it's people trolling about the healer DPS stuff. If you're lucky it won't move over to this thread but... it's a dangerous thing to bring up, especially if you want your thread to stay on topic. Not rudeness so much as playing with nitroglycerin.

---

and now recently locked :p

Yeah, you just opened a can of worms. Healer DPS threads tend to go 100+ pages long.

I'll say what I said in another thread. Tanking and healing is too easy in this game. And Yoshi thinks it's good that way.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/2a537123...h5n8o1_500.gif

Just to comment more generally, I agree with Yithar and the overall sentiment content is tuned too easy, thus incentivizing less mitigation. I wish the game would go in the opposite direction, but I doubt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YitharV2

I\\'ll say what I said in another thread. Tanking and healing is too easy in this game. And Yoshi thinks it\\'s good that way.

---

It\\'s a easy and boring way. With long que if people dont find tanks fun anymore.I can do casual dungeon without popping a single defence c.d.

Answering for what Mr Yoshi said that if people like tank they will play tank.
Mr. Yoshi I hope this expansion won\\'t become paladin meta. If so I won\\'t play class that will be underperforming with boring rotation because paladin isn\\'t my kind of bread. There is so many dps to choose now. Why would I? To show my friends that I can hold agroo and press few buttons once in a while. Im happy about paladin changes don\\'t get me wrong. I want to know how are others looking at it. Tank mains. I\\'m baby crying so hard right now xD Let me have some replies.

Btw sorry for opening that can

I should get in game title and achievement that will say the Pandora can opener. xD

Well I am happy they changing cleric stance.

I take this differently. I don't take it as "easing" all the jobs but rather making the game a bit more uniform and trying to get to a better platform to launch unique and engaging game play. You can't increase the complexity of the gameplay in a sudden rapid change, that turns people off of the game. I think with the uniformity that we have and the adjustments going forward, it gives us a better position to have people engage in content across the board or more "accessible" and we can start turning up the heat a bit more on gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lexia

Well I am happy they changing cleric stance.

---

I think most people are. Its just that SE, and Yoshi P as its proxy, seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to healer dps. Its not "mandatory", but we are going to make it even easier for you to do. The comments about how they expect high level raiders to take advantage of healer dps doesnt help either, as the community generally looks towards that as the "right/efficient" way to play. It's tough juggling the desire to reach broader more casual audiences and keep the hardcore minority pleased. I dont envy the team when it comes to decisions like these.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

I m seeing a lot of comments about healers and tanks not wanting to dps. BUT what if I as a healer and tank love to dps and stance dance. I love the thrill and reward coming out of it and the decision making. I get if you don't feel save doing that and you want to play safe. BUT if they Will keep making changes that classes will be easier and straightforward I Will loose the interest to be playing the game. That's what I feel happened to wow. Sometimes making game easier isn't the solution in my opinion. It's the problem with people being strict about the playstyle not the game. I m just hoping that stance dance will still be a thing for tanks which I don't think it will be after reading the notes for SB. Anyone agree disagree? Let me know what you think.

---

The moderators closed the other thread for a reason. Not sure why you felt the need to open your own.

Quote:

---

I Will loose the interest to be playing the game.

---

Bye.

Now I got some nice replies. Thank you guys. Zephanoa I will agree with you on that part. It also might be a change for new players but it's also a two edged sword. It hurts the players that are seeking a little bit more of a challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

Bye.

---

I m pressing the matter of tanks here more. I said I'm still a bit new to forums. English isn't my native language so I could ve expressed my self in a wrong way. If this thread becomes toxic I encourage them to lock it. Not hard feelings. Next time you could at least gimme a hug or some hi would be nice. I came here for general discussion. Sorry moderators I will have to pay more attention next time.

It was closed from some in the healers only heal crowd being insulting, making it hard to respond to without being insulting back. Feel free to report people that try to derail your thread, it may help. It is not your fault you want to talk about something relating to a subject people find it difficult to remain civil on.

Anyways idk about taking away the stance dance thing, I have to play he game to see if it feels too easy or not. The problem.. well a big problem with cleric has to do with the poor coding and poor response the game can have at times (thinking you clicked it off, casting a cure and still on) though they should fix the coding itself, not take cleric away. (since that effects everything)

I never felt too attached to anything in the game, I just see it as a tool, nothing else. If I feel I lost too many tools with nothing to do, ill be here in about a week commenting on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hamada

It was closed from some in the healers only heal crowed being insulting, making it hard to respond to without being insulting back. Feel free to report people that try to derail your thread, it may help. It is not your fault you want to talk about something relating to a subject people find it difficult to remain civil on.

Anyways idk about taking away the stance dance thing, I have to play he game to see if it feels too easy or not. The problem.. well a big problem with cleric has to do with the poor coding and poor response the game can have at times (thinking you clicked it off, casting a cure and still on) though they should fix the coding itself, not take cleric away. (since that effects everything)

I never felt too attached to anything in the game, I just see it as a tool, nothing else. If I feel I lost too many tools with nothing to do, ill be here in about a week commenting on that.

---

Thank you very much for nice input. :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chronons

I think most people are. Its just that SE, and Yoshi P as its proxy, seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to healer dps. Its not "mandatory", but we are going to make it even easier for you to do. The comments about how they expect high level raiders to take advantage of healer dps doesnt help either, as the community generally looks towards that as the "right/efficient" way to play. It's tough juggling the desire to reach broader more casual audiences and keep the hardcore minority pleased. I dont envy the team when it comes to decisions like these.

---

I think there is a difference in what he personally sees the healer's role as and the direction development went. They have to listen to the community to some extent. Removing healer dps entirely in Duties would have gone over very badly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

Btw sorry for opening that can

---

The thing is, you didn't. They did. Your OP was clearly about wanting Cleric Stance to remain to swap MND and INT values because you feel it is more engaging that way. That has NOTHING to do with if healers should DPS or not. We can argue that indirectly it does, but my impression of your thread is it is intended for healers who already stance dance.

Anywho, on to topic. I also was disappointed when I found out Cleric stance would change because I enjoyed the swapping and didn't have many problems with it barring latency issues, but this feeling was temporary due to those latency issues, and also realizing the benefit it brings to abilities like Lustrate, Indom, Assize, Tetra, Energy Drain and other applicable ogcd heals and DMG spells. I loved stance dancing when hard casting spells, but for the instant abilities I outright hated it, and it is part of what made Benediction soooo good.

Over all, I think it is a good thing that it's going away. We will adapt, and most likely not even miss it once we do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

I m seeing a lot of comments about healers and tanks not wanting to dps. BUT what if I as a healer and tank love to dps and stance dance. I love the thrill and reward coming out of it and the decision making. I get if you don't feel save doing that and you want to play safe. BUT if they Will keep making changes that classes will be easier and straightforward I Will loose the interest to be playing the game. That's what I feel happened to wow. Sometimes making game easier isn't the solution in my opinion. It's the problem with people being strict about the playstyle not the game. I m just hoping that stance dance will still be a thing for tanks which I don't think it will be after reading the notes for SB. Anyone agree disagree? Let me know what you think.

---

They have to weigh who is happy with the status quo vs who will be happy if it changes. In this case they decided more people would be happy with the lack of stance dancing. It doesn't matter to me either way. I don't think pushing a button on/off to dps/heal is thrilling, and the only risk I truly found it to be was is my mouse going to wonk out and double tap it or not tap it at all.

Not going to discuss this now but there is few reasons why tank forums never have the ''dps moar'' In fact many tanks wants to increase dps and contribute to the group. This was never a thing a while back but people started getting used to it, which I think is healthy. I think like what OP said, it's silly to ''nerf'' everything, eventually it will be almost like autoplay. I think it's healthy for the game to have classes built on rewards for high skilled players, while the not very skilled players get punished. I think the gap was indeed big in heavensward but not as big as people said it was.

I love the people who cry for this thread to stop. Meanwhile bumping it with their tears.

https://i.imgur.com/Ab89U58.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coatl

https://i.imgur.com/Ab89U58.png

---

http://i.imgur.com/a73FFAF.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

Here I'm praying SE reconsider war, we don't only lose ton of skill an utility but also a penalty for stance dancing.(the game punish you by using the stacks you need to use your skills)
I'm gonna give it a go but I just don't feel exited about the job anymore.
Been a war since 1.0 an never feel this way about it, not even in 2.0 xD.

---

You guys had your damn limelight for 2 years. Take a breather.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...Did you really have to open this can of worms with yet another thread?

I mean it's fine to say you want stance dancing to stay for tanks, but... you loaded this in the worst way possible.

---

Until healing has more uptime/less time for DPSing I don't think these threads will ever stop.

Im going to guess once SB hits we'll see even more threads on the subject. Because while DPSing as a healer will be easier than ever, there will be more pressure than ever to DPS. Anti DPSers will be up in arms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

You guys had your damn limelight for 2 years. Take a breather.

---

Because it makes sense to make one tank OP per expansion and cripple the other two instead of y'know, balancing all three?

I'm happy that you enjoy stance dancing. I do not. I've played a healer since the game released (on and off, I take breaks here and there) and the thing that turns me off the most is stance dancing. It's not because I don't want to dps, I have no problem throwing out some damage as I like to contribute the most I can. My problem is that toggling CS just feels clunky and awkward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...Did you really have to open this can of worms with yet another thread?

I mean it's fine to say you want stance dancing to stay for tanks, but... you loaded this in the worst way possible.

---

Me totally as whm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maliki_Ozari

I have no problem throwing out some damage as I like to contribute the most I can. My problem is that toggling CS just feels clunky and awkward.

---

I feel the same. I don't dps a whole lot as healer because the CS toggle is very awkward and I can't always trust it to work properly. At least as AST I have the cards to play with in my downtime.

My whole point is that I'm fine you don't want to stance dance but don't take away that possibility from me. I feel that you can play however you like but forcing some set playstyle isn't something that I like. Pretty much I get less options on how to approach the game. Stance dance isn't maybe something that great for healers since its only 1 button and not much change at all but tanks lost a lot at this point.

If I wanted to play DPS I would play DPS.

I prefer if it content is designed to give me a suitable challenge within the roles I have chosen. Which happens to be both tank (on this cat) and healer (on an au'ra).

I'm not so happy that DPS are so poor at their jobs that I am expected to cover their slack, nor that content is easy enough that I have the slack, or at higher content than I reached am expected to still have that slack, to be able to do this while they watch Netflix or whatever it is that keeps them from being capable...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

My whole point is that I'm fine you don't want to stance dance but don't take away that possibility from me. I feel that you can play however you like but forcing some set playstyle isn't something that I like. Pretty much I get less options on how to approach the game. Stance dance isn't maybe something that great for healers since its only 1 button and not much change at all but tanks lost a lot at this point.

---

I think people are just blaming cleric stance, and not he bad coding itself is why you are getting this result. Cleric stance is not the only thing that fails when you click on something, all abilities are like that because the coding is bad. However click misfires leading to wipe tends to be cleric stance more often then not, so people point fingers on the surface issue.

Personally I dislike the idea of changing an ability because of bad coding, how come everything else does not get that treatment? I also view having a consistent concept, like tanks use tank stance they take less damage, deal less damage, so if you want to deal damage as healer, you heal less in that stance. Basically I fear too much a DPS loss changing cleric stance but we will not know for sure till we can play it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Makeda

If I wanted to play DPS I would play DPS.

I prefer if it content is designed to give me a suitable challenge within the roles I have chosen. Which happens to be both tank (on this cat) and healer (on an au'ra).

I'm not so happy that DPS are so poor at their jobs that I am expected to cover their slack, nor that content is easy enough that I have the slack, or at higher content than I reached am expected to still have that slack, to be able to do this while they watch Netflix or whatever it is that keeps them from being capable...

---

Game is too complex, you be shocked on the DPS difference on the same job just because of slight differences of what order do things in, when to use abilities, and so on.

For the expecting you dps because of bad dps, I do not get why that is said. Healers should dps in this game because there is nothing else to do, it is just expecting the try and same effort. Healer will dps with 2.8k DPS-dps? or DPS with 1.2K DPS (plz brig 'DD' back, saying DPS -DPS is a mess, are tanks DMS? healer HPS?)