Warriors losing bloodbath

So I'm a bit confused at the direction they are moving in with warrior. I always assumed that a warriors niche was high HP and self healing.

If warriors lose blood bath will we be gaining other means of self healing?

If we don't get new means of self healing will we instead get better damage mitigation overall?

If warriors lose said niche what then makes them different than the other tanks?

You may be getting a new healing skill. We don't know WARs full kit yet.

You will be getting at least one better mitigation skill in Bulwark. That said, WAR really isn't lacking much in mitigation as it is.

Niche? Fel Cleave? I seriously doubt WAR will lose its place as strongest dps output tank.

Self healing in general seems to be getting cut back a bit. An apparent lack of Bloodbath for all, Warriors losing access to Second Wind, I think Mercy Stroke was gone too, no Stoneskin for Paladins.
I would assume it'll probably end up with Paladin as the sturdiest tank, Warrior as the most damaging, and Dark Knight falling between

Is there an article or something that gives a general idea what tanks loses or gain? Haven't kept up with many news lately before expansion.

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Originally Posted by CoolCat

Is there an article or something that gives a general idea what tanks loses or gain? Haven't kept up with many news lately before expansion.

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No, because everyone that went to the media tours the past two weeks are basically under NDA to not reveal ANYTHING new until the NDA is lifted. Including the day the NDA will actually be lifted.

It's really, really dumb, and we're pretty much in the dark until that happens. Hopefully sometime this weekend.

I was wondering if with the new Dark Knight meter being called the blood gauage that perhaps the self healing would head more towards them, all the blood sort of consumption theme they didnt have as much before.. maybe?

Obviously in the end we just have to wait and see what happened. *rocks back and forth*

From what I have seen in the Live Letter (Ninja's Shadow Fang, gets a slash debuff added to it aswell) some skills will merged toghter, I would not be suprised to see Bloodbath merged with another skill.

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Originally Posted by CupDeNoodles

So I'm a bit confused at the direction they are moving in with warrior. I always assumed that a warriors niche was high HP and self healing.

If warriors lose blood bath will we be gaining other means of self healing?

If we don't get new means of self healing will we instead get better damage mitigation overall?

If warriors lose said niche what then makes them different than the other tanks?

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judging from yosi hot bar warriors lose foresight, bloodbath, fracture, the ability to smoothly change stances without losing anything, mercy stroke, ir, seems all jobs lost a few things what im thinkin is they picked the wrong skills as considered button bloat. And I wouldnt say tanks are losng self heals as clemecy on paly cost even less mp and is almost spamable its truely strange what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Niche? Fel Cleave? I seriously doubt WAR will lose its place as strongest dps output tank.

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While I like the thought of putting out good damage as a warrior I was more leaning towards the Defiance side of things. The ability to outlast other tanks in certain situations by being able to self heal through the use of blood bath, inner beast and the others to some extent. Or just self healing for the sake of freeing up the healer to DPS a bit.

I don't like the idea of losing my self healing for a possible boost in DPS. Honestly if that's to be the case I'm not sure I will continue to play warrior unless the gain to DPS out weighs the lack of self healing. I also absolutely despise the MP management that comes with paladin and dark knight so I won't switch to either of those.

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Originally Posted by CupDeNoodles

While I like the thought of putting out good damage as a warrior I was more leaning towards the Defiance side of things. The ability to outlast other tanks in certain situations by being able to self heal through the use of blood bath, inner beast and the others to some extent. Or just self healing for the sake of freeing up the healer to DPS a bit.

I don't like the idea of losing my self healing for a possible boost in DPS. Honestly if that's to be the case I'm not sure I will continue to play warrior unless the gain to DPS out weighs the lack of self healing. I also absolutely despise the MP management that comes with paladin and dark knight so I won't switch to either of those.

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Warriors will still have the highest health pools and the new inner beast bar probably means WARs will be able to save up enough inner beast bar to use two Inner Beasts in a row. They will have their solid mitigation and they are most likely still going to have their other self heal.

Frankly WARs are in HW are rather unbalanced. They have little in the way of weaknesses and a lot of strengths over the other two tanks. One way or another, unless they aren't going to balance the tanks, either the other tanks are going to be pulled up to be on par or WAR is going to be brought down. Bloodbath isn't a real loss against the other tanks since both other tanks could get it anyway, though in a weakened form. The WAR cant be the best at almost everything.

Is it definite that WAR is losing Bloodbath? I know that it's not included in the list of Tank Role Skills, but couldn't that just mean it's now exclusive to WAR?

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

Is it definite that WAR is losing Bloodbath? I know that it's not included in the list of Tank Role Skills, but couldn't that just mean it's now exclusive to WAR?

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This could easily just be the case and it's been renamed to something else. Along with any other skills that were "lost"/changed.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Frankly WARs are in HW are rather unbalanced. They have little in the way of weaknesses and a lot of strengths over the other two tanks. One way or another, unless they aren't going to balance the tanks, either the other tanks are going to be pulled up to be on par or WAR is going to be brought down. Bloodbath isn't a real loss against the other tanks since both other tanks could get it anyway, though in a weakened form. The WAR cant be the best at almost everything.

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I have to agree here, WAR has been pretty OP for a good long time. Ever since they buffed the class back in 2.0 it's been increasingly more powerful, granted that buff was needed, given how awful the class was. Now it's gotten to the point where if it continued to grow, it would just continue to cause balance issues throughout every aspect of the game.

Melee dps will be able slot blood bath now, as a drg its something that I did anyways but my pld is sad now.

Side note: if drk identity becomes the sustain tank then war has to be the dps tank I think most war would sometimes rather have rampart>bloodbath, it's just bloodbath feels cooler during a fight.

WAR niche is high DPS dude

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Originally Posted by Greven

WAR niche is high DPS dude

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Not really, at the highest level of play drk and war do similar dps, assuming your group optimizes for total raid dps instead of personal padding (or something stupid like fixed MT OT roles). In a9s drk usually does more than war thanks to their ogcd aoes. In a10s, a11s and a12s drk and war do really similar dps (by similar I mean something like 1-5% difference). The only fight where war clearly has better dps is faust z, since that fight lasts like 40-50s with a good group, so the dps spikes using berserk are more pronounced (even using the same group, the difference in personal dps between good crit roll and bad crit roll can be 10-20%).

In case anyone wondering, there aren't as many samples with pld, since they aren't preferable for speedkills, and some speed thresholds can't be surpassed without the perfect composition (killing refurbisher before faust without echo, for example) so it's hard to make a fair comparison. At similar kill speed usually pld does like 10% below war/drk.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

WARs will be able to save up enough inner beast bar to use two Inner Beasts in a row.

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*3 IBs in a row

You could always do 2 (IB -> Infuriate -> IB).

Also WAR losing Bloodbath sucks, it had tons of synergy with our job and now that we've lost both that and Second Wind we have no sustain in Deliverance. That puts us on level ground with PLD/DRK in terms of self healing, but behind DRK in AOE tanking.

I suspect they want to cut back on self healing. Currently, Warrior has an abundance of ways where it's own healing capabilities means the actual healer doesn't even need to touch them. A couple examples in A12S. After the first Punishing Heat and again during the add phase. If done properly, you'll need maybe a single regen. I doubt the devs like that we do that.

Simply WAR was OP. However we don't know the potency on fell cleave and if they added a new self healing move or more mitigation

dont worry , there are some pure healers to compensate ...

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Originally Posted by Greven

WAR niche is high DPS dude

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Couldn't disagree more. For me it's always been...

WAR-high HP, Self healing, good DPS

PLD-Great mitigation, decent DPS (Probably needs more love in the form of better DPS utility.)

DRK- Good mitigation(some in the form of evasion buffs and blind debuffs if I'm not mistaken), some self healing, good DPS

Though to each their own I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I suspect they want to cut back on self healing. Currently, Warrior has an abundance of ways where it's own healing capabilities means the actual healer doesn't even need to touch them. A couple examples in A12S. After the first Punishing Heat and again during the add phase. If done properly, you'll need maybe a single regen. I doubt the devs like that we do that.

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or even those moments in a four man dungeon where the healer bites it on some random mechanic with the boss at 30% and I manage to keep myself alive long enough for the DPS to finish the fight. That's what warriors do.

But that's what draws so many towards the job. Why not continue to buff the other tanking jobs rather than nerfing warrior by taking blood bath away?

I really hope I'm blowing this out of proportion but I can't see it not being a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

From what I have seen in the Live Letter (Ninja's Shadow Fang, gets a slash debuff added to it aswell) some skills will merged toghter, I would not be suprised to see Bloodbath merged with another skill.

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I REALLY hope you're right.

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Originally Posted by CupDeNoodles

Couldn't disagree more. For me it's always been...

WAR-high HP, Self healing, good DPS

PLD-Great mitigation, decent DPS (Probably needs more love in the form of better DPS utility.)

DRK- Good mitigation(some in the form of evasion buffs and blind debuffs if I'm not mistaken), some self healing, good DPS

Though to each their own I suppose.

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WAR has always had solid mitigation. Infact in some ways its stronger since Inner beast triggers of a built resource rather than a CD and WARs could maintain a 10% damage reduction on targets. Infact its only real edge in self healing came from Inner Beast heals and the CD it got in HW. Both other tanks could get Bloodbath, PLD has clemency and DRK has a health leech as part of its rotation. In magic situations WAR was perhaps even superior in a lot of scenarios to PLD in mitigating. PLD has had jack all to mitigate magic damage with.

Warrior just got to "gud", which is a funny idea with the "git gud" mentality of game developers.

It just seems though the target on their back was to big. For Warriors going forward.....

https://www.memecreator.org/static/i...es/2493197.jpg

I wouldn't worry about WAR. From what we're given, WAR is already looking to be top tank again, both MT and OT. PLD gets a Shield that stops all their actions and a very paltry MT DPS buff in the form of Requiescat as of now. WAR gets Rampart on top of the strongest mitigation toolkit in the game. Reprisal basically replaces WAR's Storm's Path, and since it's oGCD, it will be even easier to use when needed.

PLD looks like it will be a much stronger OT than before at least. Unless they make changes to its casting, it will making the most use of Requiescat, Holy Spirit, and Clemency as OT. Outside of phase transition damage which sometimes doesn't even have a direction, Passage of Arms also makes more sense for an OT to use, to prevent possible cleave damage on the party.

PLD OT since the SwO changes have put them very close, if not on par with WAR and DRK, maybe slightly behind but not much. PLD's big DPS problems was when they were MTing. That's where they were miles behind a DRK MT and WAR MT DPS, because both can stance dance or had powerful DPS cooldowns. The only cooldown PLD had for dmg was FoF and Spirits Within.

pali is the self healing tank now potency got cut in half

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

PLD OT since the SwO changes have put them very close, if not on par with WAR and DRK, maybe slightly behind but not much. PLD's big DPS problems was when they were MTing. That's where they were miles behind a DRK MT and WAR MT DPS, because both can stance dance or had powerful DPS cooldowns. The only cooldown PLD had for dmg was FoF and Spirits Within.

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Eh, no. Drk has way bigger issues with aggro while main tanking compared to pld, since pld at least has savage blade in their dps rotation. Stance dancing is a nonfactor in current raid tier, neither pld nor drk are expected to even turn their tank stance on during an optimized run.

The only reason pld is bad is due to their dps compared to drk and war, and in a12s' case their magic mitigation is way weaker than the other two tanks. Meanwhile in a9s-a11s, even with the amount of physical damage on the tanks, pld still isn't optimal since their extra physical mitigation doesn't afford the healers as much dps as the dps loss from bringing pld instead of drk.

Dps cooldowns alone, fof (30% dmg up, 30s duration, 90s cd) is nearly as powerful as berserk (50% dmg up, 20s duration, 90s cd, 5s pacification), though that's not the only factor that determines a tank's dps. War has maim (20% dmg up, near full uptime), drk has darkside (15% dmg up, full uptime), and other stuffs that buff their dps (dark arts, blood weapon, deliverance/abandon crit buffs).