Add an equivalent of Mage's Ballad to MCH.

Casters currently need a Brd in the party to do their's maximum dps. At least 1 another job needs to have an equivalent ability. Ex. Mch. Or remove it all together. So that casters aren't depending on other classes to do their maximum dps.

No.

Cause that's exactly the point of choosing a bard or a machinist depending of your raid composition.
Plus, with the changes in Stormblood, we don't know everything about the new ranged skills so...

hypercharge

By the way, it is true that machinist already have a "foe requiem" equivalent, but less strong cause you have to use the mana turret.
On single target it's useless.

Foes gives 10% magical reduction. Hypercharge gives phisical reduction dmg. That 10% is huge for casters.

Foes gives 10% magical reduction. Hypercharge gives phisical reduction dmg. That 10% is huge for casters. With out a brd it is almost pointless to have a caster.

If they keep with this formula. People will always prefer to have a mch and a brd. Because mch can buff the tanks, the melees, themselves and a brd. And the brd can buff the healers.

The aoe turrets hypervharge gives magic resistance down, the single target turret gives physical resistance down. Pls consider looking up what you're talking about next time.

It actually looks like they've already done this with Storm Blood. Role actions for ranged DPS: Tactician and Refresh. I don't know for sure that they will be role abilities similar to Paeon and Ballad but given their names it's a pretty straightforward assumption.

That and if you notice the Bard abilities from the job action trailer show the songs now being cast on the target, rather than on self. Leading me to believe that the songs will now have different effects than they currently have.

-edit
Wow, OK I'm a spaz I misread the OP.

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Originally Posted by KilluaBlackheaven

Casters currently need a Brd in the party to do their's maximum dps. At least 1 another job needs to have an equivalent ability. Ex. Mch. Or remove it all together. So that casters aren't depending on other classes to do their maximum dps.

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It has a "Ballad". It's the Bishop Auto-turret's Promotion ability.

It has a "Foe". It's the Bishop Auto-turret's Hypercharge ability.

It's just that in exchange for lower "Foe" uptime, it can instead use a physical "Foe".

Additionally, MCH is more affected by piercing resist down as less of its damage is allotted into DoTs.

Between the two, MCH tends to lend itself towards physical-heavy or all-physical comps, but that's a far cry from being without a magic resistance down or mana restore aura. It has both.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

The aoe turrets hypervharge gives magic resistance down, the single target turret gives physical resistance down. Pls consider looking up what you're talking about next time.

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I know that. But you think that the mch will prefer buff the caster, over himself the melees and the tanks?. And i talking about maximun caster dps. Im main smn, and with a brd in the party i do 2900dps on a12s. But with a mch i do 2500dps. I dont want to be dependent of the brd to maximise my dps. Thats why I want an equivalent something from mch that buffs equally to foes and that buff the party also. I want to be able to maximise my dps, no matter the composition.

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Originally Posted by Pence

So......you want to max your DPS not matter the comp? What do you propose with runs without a BRD or MCH? Gives Foes to NIN?

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As my previously proposal. Get rid of foes all together. And instead make the caster buff himself. And they have to balance that dps. And i thing they are going inthat direction. But the thing if they keep foes. Is that no matter how much dps i do with a mch. comp i know for a fact that i will be doing more with a brd. And ther i didnt really mean all comp. i was talking about the most common comp. 2 melees, 1 mch or brd. And 1 caster. And yh as you said a nin with a foes equivalent would help on that. The casters will have more to choice from. Now they are dependent of brd only

why are you even wasting time with posts like this when they havent even announced the bard changes that are coming in a few weeks. They are completely reworking the bard playstyle including songs. so all this talk of "best comp" means nothing at this point because bards will be changing significantly.

before doing another post like that, can we AT LEAST wait to see what BRD and MCH can do in 3 weeks?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It has a "Ballad". It's the Bishop Auto-turret's Promotion ability.

It has a "Foe". It's the Bishop Auto-turret's Hypercharge ability.

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Promotion is for TP/MP regeneration, TP with Rook Autoturret, and MP with Bishop Autoturret.
Hypercharge is for Physical/Magic debuff, Physical debuff with Rook Autoturret and Magic debuff with Bishop Autoturret.

How about asking for a way to bring BRD and MCH in line without giving them identical tools?

For those that watched the latest live stream, at approximately 53 minutes into the video we get a glimpse of the Bard hotbar alongside the role actions for ranged DPS. Foe Requiem is nowhere to be seen. It's possible that a different action will result in a similar effect, but I would consider that to be the less likely scenario.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Promotion is for TP/MP regeneration, TP with Rook Autoturret, and MP with Bishop Autoturret.
Hypercharge is for Physical/Magic debuff, Physical debuff with Rook Autoturret and Magic debuff with Bishop Autoturret.

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Yea, the OP has me scratching my head too. MCH literally has everything a BRD does plus some.

A good MCH will buff according to his party composition, not just for himself. If I'm in a group with a MNK, SMN, BLM, and MCH then I'm going to do magic debuff simply because it would be a better benefit. On the other hand if it's a MNK, DRG, MCH, and SMN sorry but melee wins two to one.

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Originally Posted by Shunye

why are you even wasting time with posts like this when they havent even announced the bard changes that are coming in a few weeks. They are completely reworking the bard playstyle including songs. so all this talk of "best comp" means nothing at this point because bards will be changing significantly.

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I know that, I did this post in hopes that square could acknowledge my worries. And do something before Stormblood comes out.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

before doing another post like that, can we AT LEAST wait to see what BRD and MCH can do in 3 weeks?

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Thats the point. I want square to see this post. Before Stormblood comes out.

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Originally Posted by KilluaBlackheaven

Thats the point. I want square to see this post. Before Stormblood comes out.

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Do you really expect them to do such a drastic change, like adding a new skill or effect, 3 weeks before release?
At this point they're at best tweaking numbers.
And I don't understand why you're really asking that, you have a MP regeneration mechanic as a promoted turret.

Even if SE would see the post and magically feel like "u know what, let's grant that fellla his wish", it's already done.
You have it.

A) I still have no idea what you want. Both BRD and MCH can debuff Magic resistance. I'm sorry you sometimes don't get paired with MCH who understand your dps is greater than theirs but SE provided the tools. MCH has literally everything you asked for.

B) We don't know if RDM or SAM have a magic debuff attack similar to NIN's melee debuff.

C) At the end of the day you can only worry about you. You're the only one who can maximize your DPS, everything else is a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I'm sorry you sometimes don't get paired with MCH who understand your dps is greater than theirs

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And often it isn't.

Well we are not going to see any changes before Stormblood and even then, these type of abilities aren't added right after an expansion launch. All you can do now is hope it works out in SB.

But there's a lot of misinformation floating here. I'm surprised how many don't realize MCH has a magic debuff. The title is misleading since this thread is about Foe's Requiem rather than Bard.

Also, MCH/BRD can only rely on DRG for piercing, just how it is. It only happens that DRG is favored in the meta, but SE didn't decide that. Overall, I like comp synergy where some prefer to be matched with others. You won't always do your optimal dps but it usually balances out for the party overall.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

But there's a lot of misinformation floating here. I'm surprised how many don't realize MCH doesn't have a magic debuff. The title is misleading since this thread is about Foe's Requiem rather than Bard.

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Bishop Auto turrent: Deploys an area of effect battle turret which will deliver auto-attacks with a potency of 60 to all nearby enemies.
Hypercharge Potency: 120
Hypercharge Effect: Increases target's magic damage taken by 10% Duration: 10s.
Shares a recast timer with Rook Autoturret

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Originally Posted by Pence

Bishop Auto turrent: Deploys an area of effect battle turret which will deliver auto-attacks with a potency of 60 to all nearby enemies.
Hypercharge Potency: 120
Hypercharge Effect: Increases target's magic damage taken by 10% Duration: 10s.
Shares a recast timer with Rook Autoturret

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Sorry, that double negative was a typo, I just fixed it. Many in the first page act like MCH can only buff physical. The only thing MCH doesn't have an equivalent for is battle voiced Foe's.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Sorry, that double negative was a typo, I just fixed it. Many in the first page act like MCH can only buff physical. The only thing MCH doesn't have an equivalent for is battle voiced Foe's.

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At the same time BRD doesn't have a +%physical damage buff or a -% physical/magic damage dealt debuff.

End of the day: BRD and MCH are probably the most balanced role in the game. You can pretty much switch between the two and see little difference at the end of the fight. Both have strengths, and weaknesses. They successfully fill the same role, in different ways. Something Tanks / Heals / DPS struggle with.

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Originally Posted by Pence

At the same time BRD doesn't have a +%physical damage buff or a -% physical/magic damage dealt debuff.

End of the day: BRD and MCH are probably the most balanced role in the game. You can pretty much switch between the two and see little difference at the end of the fight. Both have strengths, and weaknesses. They successfully fill the same role, in different ways. Something Tanks / Heals / DPS struggle with.

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Yea, I mean the whole premise of this thread is flawed since MCH does have an equivalent. The thing is, if Bards had a physical debuff equivalent then they would use that more often than not in 8-mans as well. It's just mostly the case when double melee is meta so you're buffing 5 (2 tanks, 2 melee and yourself) over 3 (one caster and 2 healers). Also the bishop does less damage than the rook single target but it's not a significant loss.

MCH would be the meta pick (right now) if they weren't so rare, but I agree they are fairly well balanced. I actually think all the jobs are pretty well balanced, even though PLD, MNK, WHM abd sometimes BLM are put in the non-meta category. Because those classes aren't bad, they're nothing like MCH and AST at the start of HW, SMN at the end of ARR or WAR at 2.0 (or just 2.0 in general, which was a hot mess). We've come a long way.

Maybe RDM will bring a magic debuff and that will allow an alternative to BRD. If MNK's debuff doesn't stack with MCH's then they could sub each other or alternate. All we can do is wait to see the changes.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Maybe RDM will bring a magic debuff and that will allow an alternative to BRD. If MNK's debuff doesn't stack with MCH's then they could sub each other or alternate. All we can do is wait to see the changes.

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Agreed with everything you said. Another point of interest: RDM uses a rapier a piercing weapon. Does DRG debuff effect it? DRG/RDM/BRD could be a thing.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Agreed with everything you said. Another point of interest: RDM uses a rapier a piercing weapon. Does DRG debuff effect it? DRG/RDM/BRD could be a thing.

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They seem to use primarily for slashing here, though, so it may not be a given that it's being used like an Estoc, etc., as a purely piercing weapon.

That said, I could equip two-foot spikes to either gauntlet and my thrusting those through the enemy would still count as blunt damage so... XIV categories.

Just saying that unless they see there as being a specific need to shift RDM in particular to a DRG-based synergy (which will still only affect a small portion of their predominantly magical damage), it will probably stick with the default category for all swords, Slashing.

I think the issue here is that the OP wants a buff to his own personal dps and believes that the machinist only cares about his own personal dps and therefore uses the physical resist down rather than magic resistance down. The primary issue isn't the mch being greedy but that a majority of comps have at max 1 caster and 1/2 healers that can do magic based dps while you typically have 2 melee a bard or even another mch in the group along with 2 tanks one of which is heavily physical based. If the group meta moved to a more magic based % of overall raid dps then I think the mch would move to using his magical debuffs instead but as this game is more physical damage heavy, MCH will always pick to use physical resist down. Bards only use for req because they have no other choice for raid dps songs. If they had a physical foe req equiv, they would likely favor it as well.

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Originally Posted by KilluaBlackheaven

I know that. But you think that the mch will prefer buff the caster, over himself the melees and the tanks?. And i talking about maximun caster dps. Im main smn, and with a brd in the party i do 2900dps on a12s. But with a mch i do 2500dps. I dont want to be dependent of the brd to maximise my dps. Thats why I want an equivalent something from mch that buffs equally to foes and that buff the party also. I want to be able to maximise my dps, no matter the composition.

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Why would he boost 3 magic damage users over 5 physical damage users? The party's total dps is more important than your individual dps.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Why would he boost 3 magic damage users over 5 physical damage users? The party's total dps is more important than your individual dps.

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Again, the op seems to be more concerned about his personal dps than the group dps.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Why would he boost 3 magic damage users over 5 physical damage users? The party's total dps is more important than your individual dps.

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Again, the op seems to be more concerned about his personal dps than the group dps.

I am sorry but i cannot agree AT ALL with the comment without Bard it is pointless to have a caster. Myself and other fellow casters do great damage wise, just having a Bard around is nice is all.
As for machinist it does in fact have the support toolkit similar to that of Bard. Can we wait until Stormblood to see how things are?
SE even if the slight chance someone does see this post (very doubtful) it is not like they will make changes from what they have already been working on for sometime.

they already have, back in 3.O! and 4.0 they getting Refresh as a cross role.

people complain about bards not playing songs, 90% of MCH don't know they meant to fill the same role as bard yet no bats a eye...