Ninja

Didn't get a chance to watch live letter yet, How we looking in Stormblood?

Pretty good actually. Everyone looks good at the moment.

Ninja is looking AMAZING!!! There's a buff that allows us to cast 3 jutsus one right after the other with no cooldown. Also, we can summon a giant frog that spits fire! So excited for Stormblood.

Thanks guys for the responses, Can't wait to play my ninja when it releases!

Basically you become even more Naruto than before.
I predict mirror image for the next xpac. (That would actually be very cool, like 4-5 copy popping and attacking your target with a leap jump!)
Beside the frog, no new mudra which is a bit of a bummer imo.

There is also an ability that looks like that of leylines from what i gathered? No idea what it is

So for Job UI we get a pinwheel to show out Huton timer and a Ninja Scroll which seems to relate to a new mechanic built up from "auto attacks" that allow access to certain abilities most likey with their won cooldowns.

Toad seems to use 100, the Triple "jutsu" cast that isn't really triple but rather it lets you do sign 1-jutsu sign 2-jutsu sign 3-jutsu which is pretty neat and sound like it will flow nicely so to explain ti better it's like this.

You can Ten-Shuriken-Chi-Raiton-Jin-Suiton in that order or you could do Chi-Shurkien-Ten-Katon-Chi-Sution or you could do Ten-Jin-Chi aka Shuriken-Hyoton-Doton

so there is definitely interesting combos to be had based on the situation, the Shuriken will always be part of the combo then you can choose between Lightning/Ice/Fire + Earth/Wind/Water or Pure DMG/AOE DMG/ Bind+DMG and AOE DoT/Att speed up/Trick Attack activation.

It also looks like Mug has been redesigned to give you a big boost in charging the scroll. Another thing I noticed is we didn't see any Wasp/Viper activated so they may have removed those stances. However this is all based on the video, there are some inconsitencies like Shukuchi being used rather quickly after first one same with Huton into Raiton, since there was no sign that Kassatsu was used however, theory time.

Hide may have a new mechanic, "Gives you a free Shukuchi use + resets your ninjutsu timer" since they used hide, then Shukuchi and were able to ninjutsu again but only 4 seconds had passes and honestly, if they do make Hide a mechanic for in battle, that be pretty cool.

The shadow fang animation was used as the third hit of a full combo, so maybe it got combined with DE or AE.?

The NIN looked a bit lackluster in the video in comparison to the others but I think its because they had to showcase stuff at an eye catching speed (not what one is used to with the openers and all).

I am more concerned than happy about the chained Jutsus tho,
I do like it, it is a pretty badass concept, however I have 2 questions:

- Is the Jutsu ground the NIN's lay lines??
- Will we be unable to use anything but Jutsus while in the chain Jutsu ground??

One thing that gave me pause was that we lose both Internal Release and Blood for Blood from the Cross-Class system. Dragoon and Monk are only going to lose one which is kind of disappointing considering we're already behind both in personal DPS. I can only hope that we get a strong DPS cooldown in exchange for Goad becoming available to all DPS.

Based on video from the Live Letter it looks like Shadow Fang will be a 3rd tier combo finisher, but it will apply the Slashing Debuff. The consolidation is nice.

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Originally Posted by Nihlus_Tia

One thing that gave me pause was that we lose both Internal Release and Blood for Blood from the Cross-Class system. Dragoon and Monk are only going to lose one which is kind of disappointing considering we're already behind both in personal DPS. I can only hope that we get a strong DPS cooldown in exchange for Goad becoming available to all DPS.

Based on video from the Live Letter it looks like Shadow Fang will be a 3rd tier combo finisher, but it will apply the Slashing Debuff. The consolidation is nice.

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It will be nice that shadow fang applies the slashing debuff, But that makes us only have 1 Dot with mutilate. So we lose b4b,internal release, possible 1 dot, no kiss wasp/venom. Maybe they buffed all our skills or something but looks like they really took alot of DPS from us.

Unless there's a full list of all ninja skills with their effects I'm missing somewhere I think people are panicking over nothing

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Originally Posted by TheLastDream

It will be nice that shadow fang applies the slashing debuff, But that makes us only have 1 Dot with mutilate. So we lose b4b,internal release, possible 1 dot, no kiss wasp/venom. Maybe they buffed all our skills or something but looks like they really took alot of DPS from us.

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So far it looks like all non combo dots have been removed, ToD is gone from monks as is fracture from warrior. It's likely that mutilate will be gone as well and SF will remain as your maintance dot.

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Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Shadowfang now puts up the slashing debuff as well as the dot, so I assume that dancing edge has been redesigned or is gone all together. As long as you maintain your SF dot, youll have 100% uptime on slashing debuff

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Thanks I do like that it does both!

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Unless there's a full list of all ninja skills with their effects I'm missing somewhere I think people are panicking over nothing

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You're stating the obvious. I haven't seen anyone in here panicking. OP merely asked for commentary on the changes presented to date, which is what people have been doing.

Rewatching the twitch video where we see the NIN apply Shadow Fang (and the Slashing debuff) they also use Duality + Armor Crush
I noticed that 3 numbers came up:

a 5K critical hit
a 3.4k normal hit
and a 1k normal hit

I am supposing the 1k one is an auto-attack, and the 5k and 3.4k are from Duality. This may mean that either they changed Duality so the first strike can Crit, or they removed the "Can't Crit with Duality" part.
http://i.imgur.com/gzSc9wI.jpg
Snapshot at 1:45:44

Edit: NVM, not a guaranteed crit
http://i.imgur.com/HHFYQ1n.jpg
With Duality AE at 1:38:27

But it seems like they CAN crit

Edit 2: There is another one
http://i.imgur.com/qiHLRbP.jpg
Another Duality AE at 1:43:03

This one was wrongly done, an AE without properly comboing, so it does a 1.2k normal hit, a 1.5k crit auto attack and a 2k crit.
So thats 2 incidences of Crits on Duality.

Sadly the samples are too far apart to tell if there is any change in the CD timing.



I just hope its just a coincidence that Dancing Edge hadn't made an appearance so far...

Ok I have to know...

What exactly do you guys do during the AoE pulls... I have never been able to figure it out. I only know that when I have a good Ninja in party, the mobs will drop much faster. And I have no idea of where your damage comes from.

It does not appear in the Battle Log chat... but SOMETHING you guys do is incredibly effective in an AoE multiple mob pulls.

I have looked over your abilities and can find nothing to explain it. Closest I came was Poisoned Earth or whatever its called. I do see it when you lay it down. What else do you guys use in that situation?

Also... what is the power you use that makes that "Cha-chink" sound?

Well, not really much to figure out,
It's basically a spam of Death Blossom.
Katon and Kassatsu Doton where needed and another Katon by the end of most of them.
Add the use of a B4B and IR to the window and you do a bit more.

Other than that there really isn't much else

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Well, not really much to figure out,
It's basically a spam of Death Blossom.
Katon and Kassatsu Doton where needed and another Katon by the end of most of them.
Add the use of a B4B and IR to the window and you do a bit more.

Other than that there really isn't much else

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Pretty much this.... especially since death blossom got its to cost reduced and it's damage buffed.... drop doton on the ground, kassatsu > katon, death blossom spam.... I'll pick off single targets here and there using the combo ending with armor crush to keep Huton up...

On mobile so can't edit.... I prefer katon over doton most of the time since it can crit....

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Well, not really much to figure out,
It's basically a spam of Death Blossom.
Katon and Kassatsu Doton where needed and another Katon by the end of most of them.
Add the use of a B4B and IR to the window and you do a bit more.

Other than that there really isn't much else

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The reason I ask is, I remember once in Baelsar's Wall in the ending run to the Ilberd Fight... The tank pulled the first group and was dragging them to the end. But the ninja did something. And as I was running alongside the mob pack, I was watching them constantly tick for 800 damage, and I kept hearing this "cha-chink... cha-chink... cha chink" sound as it was going on.

We were on the move the whole time pulling them to the end.

But I always wondered what that was.

Reduced complexity, greater burst it looks like.

Nothing exciting, but at least apart from Shadow Fang and Dancing Edge merged, gameplay doesn't seem to have been squished.

Gotta say, I was definitely hoping for more.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

The reason I ask is, I remember once in Baelsar's Wall in the ending run to the Ilberd Fight... The tank pulled the first group and was dragging them to the end. But the ninja did something. And as I was running alongside the mob pack, I was watching them constantly tick for 800 damage, and I kept hearing this "cha-chink... cha-chink... cha chink" sound as it was going on.

We were on the move the whole time pulling them to the end.

But I always wondered what that was.

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Death Blossom. It's their version of Ring of Thorns/Unleash, a self-centered AoE. No other AoEs are spamable or (if you consider periodic effects as "spamable") mobile.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

I was watching them constantly tick for 800 damage, and I kept hearing this "cha-chink... cha-chink... cha chink" sound as it was going on.

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Most likely that was Death Blossom. There is no real reason for a NIN to wait for the Tank to stop running to begin their assault. If they steal agro from you while doing this, they can Shadewalker you so they get back to you. It is also viable to throw a Katon while on the move if they are doing this.

To be less intrusive it is also possible to spam Mutilate on every possible target until the tank stops.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

On mobile so can't edit.... I prefer katon over doton most of the time since it can crit....

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On Kassatsu every tick of Doton is a crit. Personally I use Katon > Kassatsu Katon if the target doesn't look like it'll live long anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

The NIN looked a bit lackluster in the video in comparison to the others but I think its because they had to showcase stuff at an eye catching speed (not what one is used to with the openers and all).

I am more concerned than happy about the chained Jutsus tho,
I do like it, it is a pretty badass concept, however I have 2 questions:

- Is the Jutsu ground the NIN's lay lines??
- Will we be unable to use anything but Jutsus while in the chain Jutsu ground??

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Assuming your tank doesn't move mobs out of ground aoes and current values stay, you just gained another single target 900+ Potency 3 combo rotation which previously could only be done with Duality and Ninjas AoE just went up a lot without costing TP since you can now chain Katon into Daton, which is 570 AoE potency over 2 actions which is 285 aoe potency for the last 2 madras and 190 aoe potency per marda sign over the course of all three of them, since the first one has to be the shuriken.

TLDR: New chain ninjitsu just helped Ninjas aoe greatly and gave them another single target 900+ potency rotation.

Not too sure why that's a concern.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Not too sure why that's a concern.

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Yea I do realize the gain of this new NIN mechanic.

My concerns are even in your quote tho:
- Is the Jutsu Ground the NIN ley lines??

In other words: once it is placed down, we must not move out of it in order to execute the 3 mudras and it'll be an AoE magnet?

and:
- Will we be unable to use anything but Jutsus while in the chain Jutsu Ground??

As to say: We want to use Shuriken > Katon > Doton. But what if we want to use GCDs also? Will the use of Spinning Edge after a Shuriken result in the rabbit instead of Katon and Doton later on? Once the ground is down are we FORCED to do nothing but Jutsus?


Both of these concerns will only have an answer once the expansion is live... or at the very least, on June 13.


And now a new one: What if we want to use Raiton but dont wanna renew Huton and we already used TA/SA?? Can't we use Shuriken > Raiton > Raiton?? or on the opposite, if its possible, does that mean we can rather go Raiton > Raiton > Raiton??

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Rewatching the twitch video where we see the NIN apply Shadow Fang (and the Slashing debuff) they also use Duality + Armor Crush
I noticed that 3 numbers came up:

a 5K critical hit
a 3.4k normal hit
and a 1k normal hit

I am supposing the 1k one is an auto-attack, and the 5k and 3.4k are from Duality. This may mean that either they changed Duality so the first strike can Crit, or they removed the "Can\\\\'t Crit with Duality" part.
http://i.imgur.com/gzSc9wI.jpg
Snapshot at 1:45:44

Edit: NVM, not a guaranteed crit
http://i.imgur.com/HHFYQ1n.jpg
With Duality AE at 1:38:27

But it seems like they CAN crit

Edit 2: There is another one
http://i.imgur.com/qiHLRbP.jpg
Another Duality AE at 1:43:03

.SNIP

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Or is that from the new stat direct hit which is a mini crit. The reason I said that was because of the exclamation point on the crit number. I think they showed that when they were talking about direct hit.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Yea I do realize the gain of this new NIN mechanic.

My concerns are even in your quote tho:
- Is the Jutsu Ground the NIN ley lines??

In other words: once it is placed down, we must not move out of it in order to execute the 3 mudras and it'll be an AoE magnet?

and:
- Will we be unable to use anything but Jutsus while in the chain Jutsu Ground??

As to say: We want to use Shuriken > Katon > Doton. But what if we want to use GCDs also? Will the use of Spinning Edge after a Shuriken result in the rabbit instead of Katon and Doton later on? Once the ground is down are we FORCED to do nothing but Jutsus?


Both of these concerns will only have an answer once the expansion is live... or at the very least, on June 13.

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Not sure why any of those are a concern as you can't weave Weapon skills between Mudras now, so basically it changes nothing, and if you can weave in between during that period, it's a additonal bonus. . The only worry is if stepping out of bounds would kill the effect, which still in the end can easily be worked around in most situations currently and probably up coming fights.

Once more. Not sure why this is a concern.

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Originally Posted by RukiaFae

Or is that from the new stat direct hit which is a mini crit.

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Hrm... I don't think thats the one, after all in the 3 pictures we see a set of 3 numbers, 2 of them coming from Duality, and another is an auto-attack.
I don't really think a direct hit will crit for 5k meanwhile Duality does a strike of 3k and another of 1k.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Once more. Not sure why this is a concern.

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Well, nothing more to say then. It IS a personal concern.


On another note: taking it from the Job Skills showcase video. While the ground chain Jutsu is active, auto-attacks will not stop, but they will not charge ninki until the ground thingy is out.

It's a massive concern because look at how much you would be clipping your GCDs in order to cast three mudra in a row...

It's the entire reason fuma is better most of the time over raiton.

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Originally Posted by Dezwaan

It's the entire reason fuma is better most of the time over raiton.

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Only if over ~180 ping (decreasing at higher SS rates) or if the half- to two-thirds-seconds would otherwise cost you a buffed reapplication.

Note also, this would only take as about long as two Raiton to cast Fuma, Raiton, and Suiton sequentially. 3 mudra + 3 Ninjutsu. At under 80 ms ping, mudra cast times and Ninjutsu cast times are identical. At over 80, Ninjutsu are only faintly longer.

That said, I agree with the concern that if the tri-Jutsu skill needs to be cast sequentially, with no weaponskills permitted between Ninjutsu cast, it would increase the dps gap between high and low ping players further—not tremendously, but noticeably, especially in terms of SS plateaus.

If weavable, these would all just be double-weaves; with the client-side checks to Mudras, that wouldn't much disadvantage the typical player. But if not, it'd be a 6x-weave, where the checking times on those Ninjutsu are going to accumulate, possibly taking a 200 ms ping player almost 2 seconds longer than a sub-80 ms player to cast all three.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

The reason I ask is, I remember once in Baelsar's Wall in the ending run to the Ilberd Fight... The tank pulled the first group and was dragging them to the end. But the ninja did something. And as I was running alongside the mob pack, I was watching them constantly tick for 800 damage, and I kept hearing this "cha-chink... cha-chink... cha chink" sound as it was going on.

We were on the move the whole time pulling them to the end.

But I always wondered what that was.

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Ninja's only AoE weaponskill is called Death Blossom. It's that ka-chink sound that you heard, and it can be spammed on the move. It's a 110 potency attack with no damage scaling for more targets, and has no cast time. So that was probably it.

I hope the toad doesn't need a target to use, cause I want to barf on random people in the next Idyllshire.

Im absolutely not hyped about the NIN in SB.

Others jobs hyped me way mroe than the naruto-style unfortunately...

Sad but true. More Naruto stuff is a huge turn-off for those of us who want a silent deadly assassin and not another flashy shounen hero.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Sad but true. More Naruto stuff is a huge turn-off for those of us who want a silent deadly assassin and not another flashy shounen hero.

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I dunno. I like to think the "flashy" part was foreshadowed right from when we first went into Middle La Noscea and used Spinning Edge on our first Wharf Rat, spinning like a record and drawing bright lines in the air in the process.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I dunno. I like to think the "flashy" part was foreshadowed right from when we first went into Middle La Noscea and used Spinning Edge on our first Wharf Rat, spinning like a record and drawing bright lines in the air in the process.

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Im with Maho for this one, i always loved and played stealth classes like rogues/assassins in my MMOS and the direction that NIN is taking ain't interesting for me anymore (just a personal choice).

Im glad they will release RDm cause i was always wondering if i should be a melee or caster, i can be both now :P

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Im with Maho for this one, i always loved and played stealth classes like rogues/assassins in my MMOS and the direction that NIN is taking ain't interesting for me anymore (just a personal choice).

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We all got our preferences! That's all fine.

I'm merely pointing out that this direction IMO isn't something new or surprising and I'm a bit surprised that there are people who hoped that would change. Our style has been super flashy and impractical from the start (Reverse grip? Really?... nevermind, you're not even stabbing), stealth has never been more than a gimmick for class quests. At level 35, we already threw fireballs and lightning around, the 50s quest was a veritable display of fireworks and then we went as far as to make a point out of being noisy and flashy with Raiton to draw attention towards us. Our limit break are shiny moonlight blades.

I simply don't quite understand where the notion that ninja was ever stealthy comes from. To me, Stormblood just keeps going down the same road we've been on all this time in that regard. To me, the real question is: Why do we keep getting these black stealth suits for AF gear? A gaudy Geisha outfit would be more fitting (and probably more historically correct, considering ninjas typically wore civilian clothes or disguises)!

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Our limit break are shiny moonlight blades.

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Have you seen the character animation for LB3 from up close?
We look like a power-ranger doing their finisher.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Have you seen the character animation for LB3 from up close?
We look like a power-ranger doing their finisher.

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Equip the Garo set for extra power-ranger-i-ness!

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Equip the Garo set for extra power-ranger-i-ness!

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If we could change gear (or glamour) mid fight, I would totally do it, with a macro and all.
"GO GO FRIENDSHIP POWER OF UNICORN RAINBOW GLITTERY FARTS!!!"