Parry replaced by tenacity (Gear only)

Tenacity: increase damage done and reduce damage taken.

Thank god (Yoshida and his team) for this.

Note: Parry chance still exist, but it's no longer in your gear.

And accuracy is gone from gear to be replaced just by level-based hit rates! Hallelujah!

Darn you beat me to it lmao I just made a thread, but yes thank god these changes are MUCH needed for tanks.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Tenacity: increase damage done and reduce damage taken.

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I like this a good bit.

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

And accuracy is gone from gear to be replaced just by level-based hit rates! Hallelujah!

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This not so much. Much like the str/vit thing from 2.0, it's just more interesting when you have something to consider. It's like why even bother to put stats in the game if you can't do anything with them?

Going back to Str only influencing damage, but tanks will be locked to Vit accessories and Str accessories will be locked to DpS that use that stat.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Going back to Str only influencing damage, but tanks will be locked to Vit accessories and Str accessories will be locked to DpS that use that stat.

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Yeah it's the same that we have now they're just emphasizing that tanks need to put STR in their accessories while wearing VIT accessories since some of the playerbase never caught on.

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Originally Posted by Awful

Yeah it's the same that we have now they're just emphasizing that tanks need to put STR in their accessories while wearing VIT accessories since some of the playerbase never caught on.

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Still a serious nerf in tank damage. An i270 tank is going to lose about 10% of their dps in Vit accessories. On the other hand, no ability to swap to strength accessories for a 25% increase in dps.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Still a serious nerf in tank damage. An i270 tank is going to lose about 10% of their dps in Vit accessories. On the other hand, no ability to swap to strength accessories for a 25% increase in dps.

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Keep in mind that Tenacity will increase damage too, so we'll have to see what kind of stat weight it'll have as a secondary stat. Even when we have zero Parry on our gear right now, I think we still have around 300-400 Parry, so transform that into Tenacity and let's see how much it contributes in the end. The Str change might have been a measure to not let tank damage increase to pre-3.2 levels while also giving us a useful sub-stat.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Keep in mind that Tenacity will increase damage too, so we'll have to see what kind of stat weight it'll have as a secondary stat. Even when we have zero Parry on our gear right now, I think we still have around 300-400 Parry, so transform that into Tenacity and let's see how much it contributes in the end. The Str change might have been a measure to not let tank damage increase to pre-3.2 levels while also giving us a useful sub-stat.

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Doubt that Tenacity will have more dps weight than Crit, Skill Speed or Determination. My main point was that tank damage will be dropping even if the secondary stat based difference is shrinking.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Tenacity: increase damage done and reduce damage taken.

Thank god (Yoshida and his team) for this.

Note: Parry chance still exist, but it's no longer in your gear.

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Not sure what the "parry chance" means. So is it tied to skills now that provide parry, Dark Dance, Raw Intuition, Bulwark? or something else? So glad for this change though. I wonder how it stacks up with DET, assuming it stays unchanged in 4.0 but its possible it might not. Sounds like a trade off to me. I just hope they don't mess up TENC and make the gains tier based like what they did with parry.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Not sure what the "parry chance" means. So is it tied to skills now that provide parry, Dark Dance, Raw Intuition, Bulwark? or something else? So glad for this change though. I wonder how it stacks up with DET, assuming it stays unchanged in 4.0 but its possible it might not. Sounds like a trade off to me. I just hope they don't mess up TENC and make the gains tier based like what they did with parry.

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Parry works as it does now, there just isn't a stat for it anymore.

Also Bulwark doesn't provide parry.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Not sure what the "parry chance" means. So is it tied to skills now that provide parry, Dark Dance, Raw Intuition, Bulwark? or something else? So glad for this change though. I wonder how it stacks up with DET, assuming it stays unchanged in 4.0 but its possible it might not. Sounds like a trade off to me. I just hope they don't mess up TENC and make the gains tier based like what they did with parry.

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Parry wasn't tier based it just had such a small growth rate per point that it was very difficult to see the difference when testing.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Doubt that Tenacity will have more dps weight than Crit, Skill Speed or Determination. My main point was that tank damage will be dropping even if the secondary stat based difference is shrinking.

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It's not about it having more dps weight, it's the fact that what we have as Parry right now, which is a substat that gives us zero DPS returns, will in turn become a stat that will give us DPS increases. We're literally gaining a DPS increse where there was none before, and in quite a significant burst too. Look at how much Parry you have right now, which can't be lower than 300 even if you have no Parry at all in your gear: this will stop being dead weight and will become a source of DPS come Stormblood.

I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Still a serious nerf in tank damage. An i270 tank is going to lose about 10% of their dps in Vit accessories. On the other hand, no ability to swap to strength accessories for a 25% increase in dps.

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Nothing stopping you from melding STR onto VIT accessories

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

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I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

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it's not necessarily an OVERALL dps increase; since already most CORE tank wear BiS that don't have much (if any) parry stats on them. However it can still turn out to be an overall DPS increase; we'll have to see the numbers. Currently tank Attack Power is weighted at .45*STR + .45*VIT so if we go bk to a weight of 1*STR there will be a net lost in AP even with STR melds; however Tenacity may cover that gap AND PROVIDE additional DEFENSE!!

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

It's not about it having more dps weight, it's the fact that what we have as Parry right now, which is a substat that gives us zero DPS returns, will in turn become a stat that will give us DPS increases. We're literally gaining a DPS increse where there was none before, and in quite a significant burst too. Look at how much Parry you have right now, which can't be lower than 300 even if you have no Parry at all in your gear: this will stop being dead weight and will become a source of DPS come Stormblood.

I think the reversal to Str-based damage was done to compensate for this additional source of DPS modifiers.

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Considering that BiS is maxing out Crit and Det right now unless Tenacity is better than Det or Crit for weight only minimum dps will increase not max.

The reverting back to Str only and then locking tanks to only Vit accessories will only decrease the max dps tanks can output.

The two changes are not linked. Parry is being changed to Tenacity to make the stat worthwhile while going back to Strength only for damage and locking tanks to Vit accessories is to make tank stances necessary in order to hold enmity.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Nothing stopping you from melding STR onto VIT accessories

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Was already factoring that in.

Was going from current .45 Str+ .45 Vit weights to 1 Str weights with the same i270 gear with Str melded into Vit.

You're missing my point entirely...

Forget about BiS builds right now. Even with a BiS build that has absolutely no Parry on it, you natively have quite a bit of Parry.

That amount is gonna be converted into Tenacity, which will in turn affect DPS. By how much, we cannot know, only SB's release will tell.

You're effectively gaining a DPS source where there was none before, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you are wearing, cause even without any gear, you'll have a base amount of Parry (0 DPS) that will transform into Tenacity (additional DPS).

I'm not saying the change was made ONLY for this reason, but it's folly to think these changes aren't balanced around each other. My theory is that tank damage output is gonna be more of less the same, or at the very least it won't decrease nearly as much as people think it will.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

You're missing my point entirely...

Forget about BiS builds right now. Even with a BiS build that has absolutely no Parry on it, you natively have quite a bit of Parry.

That amount is gonna be converted into Tenacity, which will in turn affect DPS. By how much, we cannot know, only SB's release will tell.

You're effectively gaining a DPS source where there was none before, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the gear you are wearing, cause even without any gear, you'll have a base amount of Parry (0 DPS) that will transform into Tenacity (additional DPS).

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You are completely missing the point. The extra damage from Tencacity isn't going to be doing much. Sure we are getting 354 points of it at 60 but that isn't going to make up for the loss of main stat damage in comparison to what the DpS are getting from accessories (remember they will also have no dead stats) at 70. The current Tank dps vs SB Tank dps at 60 will roughly be the same come Stormblood but the gap between Tanks and DpS will grow.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Doubt that Tenacity will have more dps weight than Crit, Skill Speed or Determination.

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If it did, there'd only be one viable secondary stat. I'm already forward to not having to obligatorily meld strength to my every accessory, if the rumors pan out that main stat maxes will be shared on accessories. I'd rather see the remaining three stats become better balanced (e.g. via TP reform and faint down-tuning of Crit), or all stats have a defensive side-effect, than a new, largely defensive stat, overtake all three offensive stats in that regard as well.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You are completely missing the point. The extra damage from Tencacity isn't going to be doing much. Sure we are getting 354 points of it at 60 but that isn't going to make up for the loss of main stat damage in comparison to what the DpS are getting from accessories (remember they will also have no dead stats) at 70. The current Tank dps vs SB Tank dps at 60 will roughly be the same come Stormblood but the gap between Tanks and DpS will grow.

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I already addressed both y'all points.. lol

We cant know how tenacity will affect our dps until SB. But go up post #15.

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Originally Posted by javid

I already addressed both y'all points.. lol

We cant know how tenacity will affect our dps until SB. But go up post #15.

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The defense bonus will be nice, but it won't change that this will likely be the end of DpS stance MTing. Lower tank damage with greater DpS damage (from the new Direct Hit stat) will likely make it harder to hold hate outside of Tank stance.

I'm curious to how the new parry will be calculated since they stated it's no longer based on target from the front. It sounds like there may be 3 % of parrying/blocking, Front, Back and Side, since logically speaking if we are thinking about a fight, it is possible to block/parry attacks coming from behind if you see them coming.

So I see them doing something like Parry Rate is 40% in the front, 20% at the sides and 5% from behind.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The defense bonus will be nice, but it won't change that this will likely be the end of DpS stance MTing. Lower tank damage with greater DpS damage (from the new Direct Hit stat) will likely make it harder to hold hate outside of Tank stance.

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I can pretty confidently say they didn't want us to be in dps stance for a whole fight... the meta just progress into that given optimization. But moving forward with this gauge system and maintenance of resources going on I doubt we'll miss 3.x MT meta. And our dps as tanks is TBA we just don't know

That seems like too much work... just make it flat rate... although I want to know how raw intuition will be reworked? (Wrong forum).