It's pointless to have both Malefic I and Malefic II. It would be a lot better to just scale Malefic with your level/stats. It's also rather annoying to switch when Malefic II gets level synced out of content.
Remove Malefic II [Ast]
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03-19-2017, 06:44 PMDamianFataleRemove Malefic II [Ast]
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03-19-2017, 06:51 PMRirita
I wonder if black mage senpai will share their new Thunder system with other jobs. I don't like Broil either.
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03-19-2017, 07:08 PMErryK
Can we wait until we see the Stormblood changes before making suggestions?
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03-19-2017, 07:31 PMDamianFataleThat would be the worst timing. By then the changes would already be set in stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
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03-19-2017, 07:49 PMSaccharinQuote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
A trait at the specific level would work for those spells and similar ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
They have probably already been decided months ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
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03-19-2017, 07:55 PMRufalus
the easy way to scale would basically be replacing malefic II with a trait. at that level, malefic becomes higher potency. at lower level, it's the normal potency because the trait isn't active.
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03-19-2017, 08:02 PMJamesrufusthunder 1 used to be a cross class skill. They took it away when they made Blizzard 2 a CC skillQuote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
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03-19-2017, 08:16 PMKallistra
I am certain that the Stones, Malefics/Stella, and Ruins/Broil were one of the first things they looked into when they talked about skill bloat and the adjustments they are planning to make in Stormblood to keep the number of actions roughly the same between 60 and 70.
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03-19-2017, 08:42 PMCeasaria
Ruin II should replace Ruin I, but Broil should stay the same.
Ruin II is an instant spell from Arcanist, and Broil is a casting spell from Scholar.
It's not the same thing at all (even with the animation).
Regarding the situation, if you have already put Bio and Miasma and if you have nothing else to instant cast, then Ruin II is the only thing left. -
03-19-2017, 08:55 PMAveraxRuin 2 costs much more MP than ruin 1, and applies blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
These two should remain separate, since you should not be spamming ruin 2 if you don't have to, because you'll be causing diminishing returns on blind. -
03-19-2017, 09:16 PMLunarEmerald
Ruin 1 and 2 should not remain separate. It's pretty dumb to have both when the only reason not to use Ruin 2 over 1 is the MP cost.
Letting us use Ruin 2 with the MP cost of Ruin 1 is not going to break the game or anything.
Also, blind is pretty much useless outside PVP. Bosses are immune to it. -
03-19-2017, 09:31 PMExiled_TonberryI don't get people who say this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
Wait until the expansion that's supposed to change everything drops to suggest things? You do know by then, no matter what your suggestions are, there's no changing it for possibly the next 2 years right? -
03-19-2017, 09:34 PMNaesakiAshwellIn the same vein right now we are only assuming this and that based on the trickle of information we are being given and YoshiP not being very clear. We won't know the true extent of it all until we see the Stormblood patch notes, so in reality you're both kind of right with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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03-19-2017, 09:37 PMErryK"Set in stone"Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
https://i.gyazo.com/1df1be1adc83a0ea...09dc1886c8.gif
You were saying?
By the point the expansion is out, the system exists. Also, they can outright remove and add skills, ie. Stoneskin II in 2.4x.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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03-19-2017, 09:37 PMxLuciaI'm personally all for this idea. But not only for ASTs. They'd have to do it with every class that uses a I, II and III version of a certain skill. And make it sync/scale depending on your level (or synced level if you do a lower dungeon)Quote:
Originally Posted by DamianFatale
Edit: I dont know how this would work with healing skills though. Those should probably remain the same. -
03-19-2017, 09:38 PMAltena
Any suggestion regarding job adjustments etc will likely be completely ignored this late into the game.
Ask that question towards the start of HW? Sure..
3 months from the expac that is meant to combat skill bloat? Yeah no.. If it's going to happen - it would have already been decided 6-12 months ago.
Which mind you is a high possibility.. Considering their whole reason for the combat overhaul is to reduce skill bloat. -
03-19-2017, 10:38 PMDamianFatale
They said they weren't 100% sure about the adjustments to the classss. I don't think it's quite too late.
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03-19-2017, 10:43 PMMoonlite
Can't find the exact quote. But they said we will have the same amount of skills at 70 as we do at 60. Which means some old ones will have to go. Easiest way to do that is combine some of the skills. I wouldn't be surprised if that hasn't already been planned for ast.
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03-19-2017, 11:36 PMFaliandra
So...are we gonna open a new thread for every possible job skill to be removed/modified?
Pretty sure that, if theyre going to remove some Thunder versions of BLM, they will try and apply similar changes to other classes as well.
Since...y'know, every class will need to make room for new skills. This thread is pointless. -
03-20-2017, 12:34 AMCeasariaThunder III cost more MP than Thunder II which cost more than Thunder I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
Strangely, SE want to keep Thunder III.
Why can't we have the same thing with Ruin ? (with Blind implement on Ruin II) -
03-20-2017, 01:20 AMNixxeMana is basically meaningless to BLMs during Umbral Ice when they'd be casting Thunder anything and Thunder II and III are only casted with the use of Thundercloud anyway, which makes them cost nothing. Ruin II's mana cost is obviously to discourage unnecessary use of it, as well as it having a different effect. Cries to start pruning anything that's "close enough," when in fact it's quite different will just end up like WoW, where you have like 10 abilities that have any purpose in life and a lot of useful abilities end up on the chopping block because everyone insists the entire game is a hassle they can't be bothered to deal with. Merging things like Stone II and III or Malefic I and II by turning the latter into a trait that enhances the former is a fine and sensible way to reduce redundant binds and abilities, but we should not get overzealous and start trying to merge every ability just because they're kind of similar or have similar names, even if they're actually quite different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
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03-20-2017, 01:29 AMRiritaWhat this has to do with unifying spells into a single button?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrufus
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03-20-2017, 03:57 AMEloah
While they may not remove it Malefic II is a part of the skills that might see a change, either to a trait or reconfiguring.
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03-20-2017, 04:39 AMCeasariaSorry, but mana for Arcanist, Scholar (I speak for this job, really) and Summoner is very easy to manage. So this excuse is not admissible for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
I don't see the problem at all. In fact, it's been a long time I have removed Ruin from my hotbar. -
03-20-2017, 04:51 AMAlistaireYou're right. Not "set in stone" but certainly better to make suggestions earlier rather than later. Or is that too much common sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
It was responding to a comment that was trying to derail the thread by someone asking for thunder to become crossclass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
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03-20-2017, 05:14 AMExiled_TonberryThe point is, it's better to say it now then when the game's already out and they're busy with something else entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
Also, those were all minor changes. Balance changes, TP adjustments, potency adjustments, casting time adjustments. We never had anything as big as removing spells and merging them into one. For all we know it could be something that isn't worth doing mid expansion and we'd have wait until 5.0, just because we decided to wait until the expansion actually released instead of having the idea in their heads while Stormblood development was still a fresh topic. -
03-20-2017, 05:19 AMViolyre
I have a macro for several abilities that get replaced later. The way I set them up is that the highest level skill will go off first, and if you don't have the higher one, it automatically goes to the next in line. It won't cast the lower abilities because you're using a spell already, they all trigger at the same time.
/macroicon "Malefic"
/ac "Malefic II <t>
/ac "Malefic" <t> -
03-20-2017, 06:08 AMAlistaireAs a side-note, making macros like this no longer bad in 4.0 by making them work like normal actions would also be a good step toward reducing button bloat, then people can save a variety of buttons that not everyone would want/need to and use these macros without losing dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violyre
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03-20-2017, 06:08 AMBigRed5392ok then why do holy spam since it has diminishing stuns?Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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03-20-2017, 07:01 AMLlusBecause blind does something useful....Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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03-20-2017, 07:07 AMRiritaThe point of Ruin II is to weave in oGCDs such as Fester. I still don't think its worth keeping, the last thing that I want from a caster is that button mash melee gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Averax
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03-20-2017, 07:22 AMSeelieSidheWas there a BLM announcement I missed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ririta
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03-20-2017, 07:28 AMNixxeBeing easy to manage is really beside the point. BLM mana management is extremely easy, but that doesn't invalidate the function of mana costs for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
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03-20-2017, 07:31 AMdragonkyn20Because Holy does more damage and hits multiple targets?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed5392
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03-20-2017, 07:36 AMRiritaThunder II and III will be removed, regular Thunder will scale with your level.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeelieSidhe
http://www.siliconera.com/2017/03/06...ing-expansion/
Quote:
Thunder II and III are being removed, and Thunder’s potency will become stronger with levels.
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03-20-2017, 10:55 AMErryKIf they already stated they are reducing button bloat, and we have a general idea (ie. Thunder II and III being merged into Thunder I), we can safely assume most classes are being treated the same way due to the nature of how these spells work (ie. Stone II being literally useless at Lv60 regardless of the situation, while Stone I gives heavy (useful in PvP) and Stone III is highest potency thus most damaging. The main point I'm trying to make is SE must know what they are doing if they know skill bloat is a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Making suggestions that are already common sense is not making suggestions, it's just bloating the forums. We already know that AST should have Malefic I and Malefic II combined, just like how WHM should have Stone I-III combined and scale with level, just like how BLM should have Thunder I-III combined and scale with level. SE clearly know what they're doing if they know skill bloat is an issue that's brought up, it's been brought up since 3.0 days, and that was nearly 2 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
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03-20-2017, 12:42 PMKDSilverThis isn't a excuse...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceasaria
Ruin II is different from Ruin. Blind, MP Cost and Instant Cast - can be used while moving.
3 reasons that in won't be a trait for Ruin. Besides, Ruin is indeed useless for Scholar at lvl60, but not for Summoner who use it when he can't spam Ruin III anymore, mana management thing.
If you don't know what you're talking about, please say nothing :3 -
03-20-2017, 01:04 PMLunarEmerald
Ruin is only useful for summoner because it costs less MP than Ruin II. If they were the same, nobody would ever use ruin again except when instances sync you down and you no longer have Ruin II.
It's this kind of redundancy that creates skill bloat.