A list of abilities that healers get too late and needs changing.

redraw 45>30
spread 40 >30
royal road 35 > 30

There is no reason to give AST these cards without these abilities. You get draw at 30 but the reality is, using it is not effective and can be intimating to new players because they can't make something come out of it due to lacking critical abilities. Also, if people find the need to kick an AST out because these abilities are gained too late, let them be gained at an appropriate level.

Esuna 18> 15

it should be learned you can get rid of paralyze at sastasha at 15, no reason to make it 18, this is not throwing off any "balance" other then annoying people

exalted deterimenet 18> 15
see above

Leeches 40 >15

WHY is SCH 40????????? It is annoying a heck and there is no reason for it. Make it 15, stop having level roadblocks for no reason

With new combat system:
All healers
clearic stance, level 6
protect 8
stoneskin 34

also protect and stoneskin shouldn't be allowed to be cross classed to non healers (PLD is the exception) the base class concept is a 1.0 relic that lost importance in 2.0. It really should been addressed in 3.0 but since 4.0 it was said you are redoing the combat system, might as well make sure this is on the table.

SCH needs a stun, heavy, and pushback to use in PvP and PvE. How come DPS get these and not a healer? they should be more affinity to have such abilities to healer first. AST and WHM both have them, why is SCH left out with so much?

SCHs are ACNs for their first 29 levels, which gets them a pet knockback at level 4. The fact that they don't have it as an actual SCH is probably another inherent issue with their ACN heritage. I agree Leeches should definitely come earlier, though - perhaps they can shuffle things around so that the whole base healing kit is available as soon as you become a SCH at least. To be fair though, the fairy alone makes up for a lot of the other utility that SCHs are missing in their low-level days.

Once you get the fairy, Selene has an AOE esuna move called Fey Caress which is completely OP however you need to force her to use it while on obey. Most new schs aren't micro managing their pets so dont know to use it or that it exists. Its a level 20 ability.

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Originally Posted by seekified

SCHs are ACNs for their first 29 levels, which gets them a pet knockback at level 4. The fact that they don't have it as an actual SCH is probably another inherent issue with their ACN heritage. I agree Leeches should definitely come earlier, though - perhaps they can shuffle things around so that the whole base healing kit is available as soon as you become a SCH at least. To be fair though, the fairy alone makes up for a lot of the other utility that SCHs are missing in their low-level days.

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Not cleanse effect and not for PvP. In PvE.. yeah it does not matter that much, for PvE, it be nice but it is a huge pvp issue lacking them.

It does not matter what the outdated logic is, SCH NEEDS a push back and the pvp only ability is absolute ****

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Originally Posted by Auri

Once you get the fairy, Selene has an AOE esuna move called Fey Caress which is completely OP however you need to force her to use it while on obey. Most new schs aren't micro managing their pets so dont know to use it or that it exists. Its a level 20 ability.

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60 sec cooldown though and micro managing it is kinda out of the question with the game pace gives you.
They can make it higher level, but a basic clenase should be 15

I've always wondered why we get Leeches at lvl 40... (Yes I know it's a Job ability but it's still a bit stupid to get it so late)

They could always swap places between conjurers Medica(lvl10) and Esuna(lvl18) and then let Scholars use Esuna as a crossclass ability but with this late into the game, they probably don't care anymore.

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Originally Posted by Xaeth

I've always wondered why we get Leeches at lvl 40... (Yes I know it's a Job ability but it's still a bit stupid to get it so late)

They could always swap places between conjurers Medica(lvl10) and Esuna(lvl18) and then let Scholars use Esuna as a crossclass ability but with this late into the game, they probably don't care anymore.

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Leveling roulettes, I want it changed, it is annoying as heck

You forgot one: Shroud of Saints (WHM 38) The AST equivanelt Luminous something(forgot the name) is level 7.

The AST cards are fine. They're basically their job abilities like holy, regen, etc. You don't really need them at those low levels... but mana regen on whm... yes... yes... we need that thanks...

AST has all the necessary tools that a different healer would unlock at 50, at lv30 lol.. and more.

Going into Sastasha you already have your emergency heal/mini-Benediction(Essential Dignity), emergency MP and enmity down(that Aether skill), Lightspeed for fast healing, raise and cleanse. You can cross class Protect, Cleric Stance, Blizzard II, Stoneskin and Swiftcast.

Come lv34, you already have a regen and a stance to increase heals and spell speed, AND enmity, AND cards.

Lv38 you get your "Virus" and it doesn't have an immunity attached. Your enhanced Benific II is a guaranteed crit which makes it way more effective than WHMs.

Lv42 you get your "Medica II" that is Aspected Helios.

To top it off, at 50 you get "Divine Seal"(Synergy) but it's just better because you can also heal the tank without focusing him/her.

AST leveling is very off-balance with the others..

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Leveling roulettes, I want it changed, it is annoying as heck

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Speaking of Leveling roulettes, isn't it weird that when doing lowlevel (below lvl30) dungeons, we have access to less crossclass abilities than if we would be at that level due to being a job, but we have no access to our job abilities so it's 100% a loss (except for scholar who gets the fairy but that's a special case).

If I could have it my way, I would let us keep our crossclass-slots up till level 25 when playing as a Job and just don't get any more slots after 25.
That way, we have access to the same amount of crossclassabilities as the people at that level.

White Mage regen. it would be useful for lower level dungeons so I can do more damage and not have to worry about healing as much.

I'd love to see Gravity lowered to 45 or 46. It sucks that AST can't do aoe damage until 52.

Honestly leeches is the only really egregious one, particularly with Brayflox poisons. The others just don't really matter much IMO. Esuna is soon enough for when you need it... you don't need RR to use cards (RR just makes them more powerful, so it's fitting enough for level progression), etc.

Nevermind Brayflox, just consider Toto-Rak. The whole dungeon is practically built around poisons.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

60 sec cooldown though and micro managing it is kinda out of the question with the game pace gives you.

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wut

Good scholars are micromanaging their faerie.
It's completely viable.

I agree on Leeches. Having it be that high just didn't make sense.

The spells you said should be given across healers are all from Conjurer. What unique abilities would Conjurer get in exchange for losing three of their core abilities like that?

SCH already has a pushback in PVP. Its one of the pvp abilities.

Cutter's Cry is another one. If you get a 38-39 SCH healer, that worm second boss will wreck the whole party.

Changing the lvl you get skills would require swapping around skills rather than just giving them then otherwise anyone levelling the class would have chunks of 10-20 lvls where they got no new skills at all. More over, I don't think it is possible to add SCH skills below 30 since they would have to go under ARC and that would mean SMN would gain access to them, something I don't think they want to do. Switching Leech out with Adlo is something I could see though honestly Leech is a somewhat less glamourous skill.

So lets make every healer exactly the same is what Im getting from this, why have 3 healers then? we should only have 1 healer then and save resources for more dps....

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Originally Posted by bass9020

So lets make every healer exactly the same is what Im getting from this, why have 3 healers then? we should only have 1 healer then and save resources for more dps....

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I don't understand how unlocking useful abilities earlier is making them all the same... They are abilites they will have at 60 anyway >.>

PLD has the same problem, shield oath being unlocked at 40 is a stupid design choice and makes tanking a chore. Them getting that at lvl 30 mean it's instantly the same as a WAR? That is your logic afterall.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

I don't understand how unlocking useful abilities earlier is making them all the same... They are abilites they will have at 60 anyway >.>

PLD has the same problem, shield oath being unlocked at 40 is a stupid design choice and makes tanking a chore. Them getting that at lvl 30 mean it's instantly the same as a WAR? That is your logic afterall.

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It was more about the scholar getting cc things whm has. I should have been more clear but I'm tired and lazy.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

It was more about the scholar getting cc things whm has. I should have been more clear but I'm tired and lazy.

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Oh yah stuff like that shouldn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Xaeth

Speaking of Leveling roulettes, isn't it weird that when doing lowlevel (below lvl30) dungeons, we have access to less crossclass abilities than if we would be at that level due to being a job, but we have no access to our job abilities so it's 100% a loss (except for scholar who gets the fairy but that's a special case).

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Oh it cheeses me off so bad that *I* can't Stoneskin because I'm synced down to a level before I get it but *other* people can Stoneskin through cross-class even though they also are under the level before it would be accessible. Cross-class skills really need to take original level of acquisition into account.

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Originally Posted by Xaeth

Speaking of Leveling roulettes, isn't it weird that when doing lowlevel (below lvl30) dungeons, we have access to less crossclass abilities than if we would be at that level due to being a job, but we have no access to our job abilities so it's 100% a loss (except for scholar who gets the fairy but that's a special case).

If I could have it my way, I would let us keep our crossclass-slots up till level 25 when playing as a Job and just don't get any more slots after 25.
That way, we have access to the same amount of crossclassabilities as the people at that level.

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Jobs and classes have the same amount of cross-class skill slots at the same level.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

SCH needs a stun, heavy, and pushback to use in PvP

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lets leave the most of the stuff u have said "wrong" and focus on this ( SCH do have a push back skill )

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Originally Posted by Felis

Jobs and classes have the same amount of cross-class skill slots at the same level.

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No they do not. Classes can access 10 cross-class skills: the first one at lv. 1, and then an extra 1 at every level divisible by 5 until level 50.
Jobs can access 5 cross-class skills: the first one at lv. 10 and then an extra 1 at every level divisible by 10 until level 50. This is to compensate their 5 jobs abilities between lv 30 and lv 50.

So, in Sastasha and Tam-Tara: a job will have one cross-class skill while a class will have 3.

leeches is annoying but i've found the fairy more than makes up for it. The only part that is a little sketchy with a scholar is the green dragon in brayflox but still totally manageable.
now that your fairy has a cleanse probably very easy, just cleanse the poison at a few stacks and the damage drops back to easy again. Keeping them on obey is np too they still auto-cure and everything else is just one button when you want the effect. No targeting or anything required

Cards aren't a problem either, the way it's set up your slowly adding complexity to the system becoming used to it bit by bit so manipulating cards develops naturally. I will say though gravity and malefic 2 are far too high. Astro soloing and AoE are beyond pathetic without them

WHM mp can be a bit sketchy before shroud but their passives are designed around mp conservation. It may be a bit of a harsh lesson for some but learning how to conserve mp is important for WHM and if you do it right you shouldn't have any problems in the earlier dungeons. The amount of times i've been paired with a white mage that exclusively uses cure II then complains about mp is far too many

shield oath should probably be 30, pld is really awkward during the part it doesn't have that

outside of that the only one that bothers me is DRG should get both the fang and claw skills together. Getting the second one currently feels like a downgrade

AST doesn't need every card related skill right at 30. People just starting the job already have trouble figuring out what each card does. Imagine teaching them about saving a card, royal roading one to buff another, and rerolling for specific card types RIGHT out of it.

It'd overwhelm the player to start off, and second of all, you'd have to take other skills and make them be obtained by quests instead.

SE wanted the player to learn the cards at a slower pace, not put everything in your face at once.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Oh it cheeses me off so bad that *I* can't Stoneskin because I'm synced down to a level before I get it but *other* people can Stoneskin through cross-class even though they also are under the level before it would be accessible. Cross-class skills really need to take original level of acquisition into account.

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While I care more about giving classes/jobs access to things they need, I agree that it's a bit odd.

Then again, if we had to consider the level we have access to certain abilities when choosing which order we should sort our crossclassskills, it would create more problems than it is worth.

Has anyone ever had any trouble healing with any healer class <50?(!)
I can heal those just fine with Physick on BLM!

I would put my two cents in, but then I realized that everything is changing for Stormblood and those fixes have already been planned months ago.

Problems solved. You're welcome.

I actually like the variation. I sometimes even like having to Adloquiem the target of an incoming debuff to stop in from afflicting the target in the first place. It's often the missing parts of toolkits during leveling that make the rest feel more distinct.

And there's a perfectly good reason for getting Draw without Redraw, Shuffle, and Spread. Each is supposed to add something to the way you plan your card usage, individually, in steps. It's a less a matter of learning curve as simply having multiple takes on the experience over the levels. The original form of Draw asks only "who can use this most, now?" or "would it be better to Royal Road this for my next card?"

Let's just give healers all of their skills at level 1..

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Originally Posted by Altena

Let's just give healers all of their skills at level 1..

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You say that as a joke, but the game would be more fun for me personally if everyone had all of their abilities everywhere (and was balanced for it). "Oh, I'm synced below Shield Oath. That sucks." "Oh, I'm synced below Doom Spike. Guess I'm not AoE'ing this dungeon." "Oh, I can't even use cards (my class gimmick) because we're below level 30..."

Everyone has their full toolkit at max level, but that means that when you sync down you are losing critical parts of your class's toolkit! It's why syncing down in this game is just really not fun.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Everyone has their full toolkit at max level, but that means that when you sync down you are losing critical parts of your class's toolkit! It's why syncing down in this game is just really not fun.

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"Oh noes, I actually have to know my way around a job better because my ezmode buttons are gone."

That's honestly how I read that.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

I would put my two cents in, but then I realized that everything is changing for Stormblood and those fixes have already been planned months ago.

Problems solved. You're welcome.

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Except SE is infamous for not ever seeing the actual problem expect all of this to still be relevant.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

"Oh noes, I actually have to know my way around a job better because my ezmode buttons are gone."

That's honestly how I read that.

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If anything, the early rotations are braindead simple. In fact, that's the problem. Spamming impulse drive is more "ez mode" than anything else, yet also incredibly dull.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

"Oh noes, I actually have to know my way around a job better because my ezmode buttons are gone."

That's honestly how I read that.

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Ah, yes. The game is far harder to play when I have 5 buttons than when I have 30. Really, man?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Except SE is infamous for not ever seeing the actual problem expect all of this to still be relevant.

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More like they make a fix and then break something else in the process. BRD is a pretty good example of that; when a lot of BRD players on the forums wanted more damage for Heavensward, they fixed that and then broke the mobility that traditionally brings players into playing physical ranged classes.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

If anything, the early rotations are braindead simple. In fact, that's the problem. Spamming impulse drive is more "ez mode" than anything else, yet also incredibly dull.

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First off, if you're in the lowest of dungeons as DRG/LNC, you have Heavy Thrust as well, so the only reason why it'd be seen as nothing "spamming impulse drive" is just laziness, not to mention that's just for four dungeons out of all the ones you could get in leveling roulette (you'd have Full Thrust for the fifth with the cap in there).

Secondly, that was in reference to those complaints of "I don't have Shield Oath", "I don't have aoe", etc. No Shield Oath? Flash a few times, tab-target, and watch threat. No AoE? Either focus on one if you're melee or dot one mob up, move to the next and dot that, and so on if you're on a SMN or dps'ing on a healer (BLM/THM and physical ranged dps have aoe even in Sastasha). No cards on AST? Well you still have damage tools and a better pre-50 healing kit earlier on compared to WHM and SCH.

Becoming complacent with later, more convenient tools and rotations: that's what makes it "ezmode", because the difficulty for lower dungeons when synced down is in how well you can adapt to not having the buttons that make life easier, which at least to me seems no more different than players demanding something that requires the slightest bit of raid competency like Ozma to be nerfed.