What's with all the hate toward mentors?

Not to complain, but I've seen a few posts hating on mentors pretty badly. What's the deal? What's the opinion of the general public? I think people are expecting too much from mentors. Every mentor is different.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

I think people are expecting too much from mentors.

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People want it to mean a lot more than what it actually means.

It means you had enough time in two years to level 3 classes to 60 haha

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Originally Posted by Freerider

Not to complain, but I've seen a few posts hating on mentors pretty badly. What's the deal? What's the opinion of the general public? I think people are expecting too much from mentors. Every mentor is different.

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cuz salty people gotta hate

True true. Ha

It's because many mentors are actively being discouraging & negative towards new players; the very people that the mentor designation was intended to help. It's not a campaign against mentors, just bad ones.

The hate toward mentors is geared toward the few don't use their "status" for its purpose, use novice network to bicker and argue with each other, and generally give the mentors that wish to actually fulfill that role a bad name.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

It means you had enough time in two years to level 3 classes to 60 haha

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To be more serious: Mentoring, ideally, means you are willing to help new players and have a very minimal baseline of experience to do that.

It does not mean:
You are a pro raider
You are a pro at all roles (or any role)
You have every nuance of theorycrafting memorized
You have infinite patience and will never use vote dismiss
You have deep knowledge of <insert game topic here>
You never mess up mechanics or forget how something works
etc

Ideally you have enough knowledge to help someone on their way from the boat/cart to max level, and/or are willing to help them clear some instances, or something. And you're willing.

A lot of the hate towards mentors is because the are a few mentors that are just farming rewards rather then mentoring new users

They're jealous of our glorious crowns obviously:p

A noticeable enough amount of mentors don't do their part and are below the average baseline of what should be acceptable in the game.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

They're jealous of our glorious crowns obviously:p

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with that attitude you are part of the problem and not the solution

I am sure it not hate toward them, but people that are wearing the title but don't do their job. There is also unrealistic expectations being thrown at them. Some people do it for the crown/mount, others to help.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

with that attitude you are part of the problem and not the solution

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Pretty sure it's sarcasm.

If you do not want to mentor, remove the crown. No one will expect anything if you wear no crown. If you do wear a crown, I expect you to be willing to mentor. Players should be able to give mentors a thumbs up/down. Too many down compared to up, and you lose the mentor status and need to get X amount of new recommendations in order to regain mentor status.

People tend to forget that Mentor is your average player who is willing to give advice. He is not some FFXIV Pro.
Also, there are many good Mentors out there but you won't see anyone mentioning them on the forums.

Most of the hate mentors get are generated by themselves.

If all these people who spend countless paragraphs throwing salt at the system would actually sign up to be a mentor and be the change they seek the system would vastly improve.

Instead all we get is excuses.

The common forum argument to not become a mentor is that they don't meet the requirements, but then they spend hours on the forums saying the bar to become a mentor is too low and SE should raise it (???)

Another common argument is that they don't want to be part of the same system as those "bad mentors", does that mean they're more interested in having a special status that "baddies" can't reach than in helping new players? Isn't that contradictory?

If the system is bad is because you, the self proclaimed good players, abandoned the system and left it at the mercy of those who just want the crown and the mount, and if you're truly interested in providing new players a good experience you would sign up instead of throwing shade at the system here, because SE seems to have no intentions to change it.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

Not to complain, but I've seen a few posts hating on mentors pretty badly. What's the deal? What's the opinion of the general public? I think people are expecting too much from mentors. Every mentor is different.

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It boils down to mentors can do nothing right.

Help a player that may be struggling or failing, and if the advise is unwelcomed, they are immediately reprimanded.
Other times, there are genuinely "bad" mentors (can substitute bad for simply impatient in many cases) that expect players to perform to a certain threshold. This can be as little (or as much, depending on your viewpoint) as healers not DPSing, small pulls and not speedrunning. They'll remove players simply because they actually don't conform to their ideals or style of play and anything below that is garbage.
Then there are mentors that will do or say nothing unless they are personally asked questions whose answers may be found on Google.

Like everything in life, the bad travels far faster, and louder, than the good. So even if bad mentors are few and far in between, they will be the thing you'll probably only ever hear about, especially on forums.

EDIT:
Also, the system heavily relies on people actually being good people. Considering people aren't ostracized for being assholes in the gaming community, you'll always run into this kind of an issue [in NA; unsure about EU]. IE: If a player is a jerk, but is a really good player, they are often "tolerated."

This is a great read for a bit of an understanding.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

I am sure it not hate toward them, but people that are wearing the title but don't do their job. There is also unrealistic expectations being thrown at them. Some people do it for the crown/mount, others to help.



Pretty sure it's sarcasm.

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Sticking out tongue wasn't enough the post should of been in italics :P

I think the majority of "hate" towards mentors is rather misdirected. I feel it's more to do with SE than the actual mentors personally. People can't express their frustration directly with SE (other than in-game suggestion box) about the lack of standards/requirements with becoming and maintaining the Mentor. Regardless, SE suggests posting suggestions/feedback on the forums in their auto-reply to in-game feedback, so here people are.

Personally, I have only seen the "hate" here, not in game. People aren't as likely to go out of their way to post on the forums every time a mentor they encountered actually lived up to their crown rather than brought shame upon it.

^That.
I can find no basis whatsoever that suggests it is actually "a lot of mentors" (like others in this thread said) that are doing horribly.
It's always "this one mentor did something bad, omg the mentor system is horrible and should only include those 10 people that have purple numbers on FF****",
completely ignoring the hundreds of times the mentors in their other duties were just normally doing their job or even going out of their way to help.
Because why would you go to the forums to say "today I had 3 nice mentors in my Dun Scaith run, today a mentor explained to me how the mechanics of Sophia work, today...etc."?

It's a mixture of unfair expectations (many people think mentors are some kind of uber players that should be better than the average player, but they don't know that mentoring is SPECIFICALLY linked to the newbie system, and a mentor needs to be good enough to help a newbie and answer newbie questions, NOT give an endgame static advice on how to be even better, or be able to single-handedly carry a lvl 60 party through content - because that is. not. their. job).

And yeah sure, there is the occasional bad egg, but that's ALSO something most people don't realize - they can report bad mentor behaviour and the mentor will get their mentor status removed (or, if the behaviour goes against the general ToS, will get a ban for going against the rules that are in place for ALL players).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

...completely ignoring the hundreds of times the mentors in their other duties were just normally doing their job or even going out of their way to help.
Because why would you go to the forums to say "today I had 3 nice mentors in my Dun Scaith run, today a mentor explained to me how the mechanics of Sophia work, today...etc."?

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Ayup, because it's human nature to focus on and remember the bad things while forgetting the good. It's why the vast majority of news stories are about what's gone wrong in the world as opposed to what's gone right. If everything is as it should be then no one has cause to comment, it's only when things go wrong do people speak up and because of that the only things you hear are about the bad mentors doing the bad things.

Edit: On a side note to this, I've been working on a website dedicated to helping mentors and new players connect easily along with providing a forum for role and job/class guides. I'm hoping it will be a place for this kind of positive feedback and discussion to become the prominent form of discussion... but it's still a work in progress. ^.^;;



Building a community of mentors to help sproutlings across all worlds! Please feel free to visit the website and help grow a mentoring community that we all can be proud of! https://malzianxiv.wixsite.com/xiv-mage

The sum of all hunt arguments over early pullers: http://goo.gl/IFT9IE

1.0 was terrible. It died because it was terrible. It should stay dead... BECAUSE IT WAS TERRIBLE.

But its ok to forget about all the new players or the players who arent mentors that attack most of the veteran players. If we even slightly try to help or help them adjust there playstyles, we are met with hate most of the time!

So I understand why sometimes mentors dont want to act like a real mentor, but im just a crafting/gathering mentor so I dont have to deal with this type of issue.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

But its ok to forget about all the new players or the players who arent mentors that attack most of the veteran players. If we even slightly try to help or help them adjust there playstyles, we are met with hate most of the time!

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As a former teacher I advise the following idiom: "You cannot teach those that are unwilling to learn."

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Ayup, because it's human nature to focus on and remember the bad things while forgetting the good.

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At least until nostalgia sets in and you end up rationalizing the bad things away to remember the good.

Memory bias is a funny thing, really.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

At least until nostalgia sets in and you end up rationalizing the bad things away to remember the good.

Memory bias is a funny thing, really.

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Yeah, hence the 1.0 bit I added to my signature the other day.... >.>

Most of the mentor hate I've seen has been on the forum. I've never had a problem with other players calling me out simply for being a mentor. However, I've done my best to be an exemplary mentor (by generally acceptable standards) so that probably helps.

I, like a lot of mentors, had to leave my server's Novice Network because it was spammy doom from people who wanted to use it as a chat channel.

I've only seen bad behavior from one or two mentors, one of which I reported for bad behavior/abusive language.

I've actually seen more examples of GOOD mentors in game than bad ones. I play a lot. I do a mentor roulette every day, sometimes more than one. Helping parties clear synced extreme primals is very satisfying. Some of the best runs have been with other mentors who joined in progress, offered tips, knew all the strats, and were patient with the sprouts and returners.

While this may sound a bit harsh there are a lot of good mentors that are misunderstood. Yes there are some that really don't help but most I think get the bad rep for being honest and blunt about what is going on. Some people may not agree, lets face it some of this new generation is the Cup Cake generation. If your not sure what that is here is a simple over view. Some players are spoiled and want everything handed to them. I've had a few runs were trough tooth and nail players refuse to communicate and go afk on their own, they complain of over pulls. Note this is not as in groups but as in one group that links. I am a very patient person and even in raids were people rage quit I ask other members of my FC, LS's, to help for new people. Seriously players need to start putting some effort. While society wants to give everyone a trophy for participating, at least I'm glad games stay honest and fair. Party gets a wipe? guess what that means you lost. Completed duty? congratulations you won. People need to stop blaming Mentors for their short comings. If your one of those ASK FOR ADVICE. It's ok Mentors are willing to help just please for the love of the twelve put some effort into it.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

completely ignoring the hundreds of times the mentors in their other duties were just normally doing their job or even going out of their way to help.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I've actually seen more examples of GOOD mentors in game than bad ones. I play a lot. I do a mentor roulette every day

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Yeah I agree, honestly on Primal DC most mentors I see are either neutral because the run is going smooth and nothing needs to be said or they are helpful with whatever they can offer.

I also do the same when I do mentor roulette. Sometimes I get content I don't remember how to do unfortunately but I try my best to remember things to help others with or try to explain what I think I remember. Some EX Primals are hard since I totally don't remember them step by step or the best way to do them based on the role that is new or having issues with the content, but I still try my best and of course do the best on the role I am in there on to assist.

Everyone has different expectations on what a mentor should be doing so you only sometimes actually meet someone's personal expectations.

Like I remember posting a story in Tales of DF thread about a tank that wouldn't stop running and let me type anything to them in Dzmael Darkhold. They weren't standing in the crystal and they were using Sword Oath and not Shield Oath so I was tanking all the mobs as WHM.

I tried until first boss to get them to stop and listen for a minute but they just kept going and I was doing the healing role and tanking role both. So I ended up leaving the group. Some people actually think I shouldn't have left because I was a mentor and I understand we all have different opinions, but honestly I would think a line would be drawn at a mentor being responsible to tank on a healer role. Healers may have the toolkit to main heal and side dps but we don't have the toolkit to tank. So I only had two options either I vote kick the tank or I leave myself and since I don't like kicking people I choose to leave on my own.

So personally I think some people's expectations are just set too high. When you set your expectations that high you are always going to be disappointed and then there comes the hate. It's a video game first of all so it is a hobby for entertainment; you can't expect miracles from a volunteer player help guide. Mentor or normal player we all have limits and we all have the right to leave content when we wish due to IRL problems or because we can't teach those who don't want to be taught. There is only so much a mentor can do and I think some players just do not realize that.

Some mentors do not exemplify the simple base of what a mentor should be and I understand that but in my experience it has been the minority of them. There seems to be way more decent or good ones than bad.

I've gotten hate as a mentor from players who do not want to be helped. I offer advice but then get swore at for example and insulted over it no matter how nicely I offer it. It happens way too often too :/

From players who like the assistance though I've got nothing but nice comments and commendations for assisting them so it helps knowing I was able to help them even with the players who insult me for trying to help being so prevalent :x

You guys have been very helpful in answering the question. I guess I just didn't understand the complaining. I tend to see myself as a "good" mentor, so the fact that people were saying such rough stuff against mentors kind of bothered me.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I've gotten hate as a mentor from players who do not want to be helped. I offer advice but then get swore at for example and insulted over it no matter how nicely I offer it. It happens way too often too :/

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I get this a lot, too, especially when I'm playing a different role from the person playing. When I'm on my BRD advising a Tank (I main PLD), I get a lot of, "You're a DPS, what do you know about tanking?" (People oblivious to the requirements of a mentor, probably.) My response generally is, "Check my search info." Typically upon seeing my full cadre of 60s they tend to stop and listen... ^.^;;

Most mentors tend to showcase a very low skill level and also have very low patience level. Mentor's should have a decent aptitude on the topics they're trying to teach as well as have patience to assist new or under performing players in reaching new levels of skill.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Many mentors tend to showcase a very low skill level and also have very low patience level. Mentor's should have a decent aptitude on the topics they're trying to teach as well as have patience to assist new or under performing players in reaching new levels of skill.

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Fixed that for you.... I highly doubt it's most, but I won't argue that there are a lot.

Cause when you have a mentor acting like a d***, rushing everything and refusing to explain a strat to a new player....well, it tends to generate negativity over all of them, even if it's not fair for the good ones.
I've actually seen more non mentor helping newbies than actual mentors xD (some of them even stating "I just want the mount" ^^")

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Fixed that for you.... I highly doubt it's most, but I won't argue that there are a lot.

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Perhaps so, it's hard to say as we don't have any hard statistics. My own experience is anecdotal at best but from that experience I've far more mentors than I thought would be possible either be toxic or asinine or just outright under perform on a laughable level. It's a pretty depressing thought given I myself wear the crown with the intent to help people if requested or just in general to give out a few pointers here or there if there are some blatant signs of lack-of-game-knowledge.

Because there's a noticeable trend among people wearing the mentor crown that they act in very non-mentor ways. They won't help new or struggling players or even complain about their performance. They are suppose to be examples of good player etiquette (as that box we all tick indicates) but there are many who are far from it. Now, a lot of this is SE's fault. They give too many rewards for being a mentor, so people who just want the mount abuse Mentor Roulette. They need a specific mentor feedback system for mentors so bad mentors who don't uphold good player etiquette can be reported and have their status removed.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Because there's a noticeable trend among people wearing the mentor crown that they act in very non-mentor ways. They won't help new or struggling players or even complain about their performance. They are suppose to be examples of good player etiquette (as that box we all tick indicates) but there are many who are far from it. Now, a lot of this is SE's fault. They give too many rewards for being a mentor, so people who just want the mount abuse Mentor Roulette. They need a specific mentor feedback system for mentors so bad mentors who don't uphold good player etiquette can be reported and have their status removed.

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There is also the flip side...

Mentor: You know you're not really geared enough to pull all of that. I don't think I can heal you through it all.
Player: Shut up! I'm the tank and I'll pull want I want!
*Pulls whole room and promptly dies.*
Player: WTF!? Why didn't you heal me?? You suck as a healer, especially for a Mentor!
Mentor: .... /facepalm

As above, there is the other side that doesn't get mentioned as much in the forums.

I landed in ramuh ex the other day. I explained the first few mechs, but no-one really grasped them and we wiped a fair few times. Just before abandon I was told I was going to be reported for not healing the people marked for chaos (or w/e the buff is called, the one where you walk slowly towards the boss and get one shot), despite explaining how this couldn't be healed through and that if the marked people weren't released, they die.

some people expect you to be able to one-man carry the whole team through every fight if you're a mentor. How dare you not heal the unhealable mechs...

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

I landed in ramuh ex the other day. I explained the first few mechs, but no-one really grasped them and we wiped a fair few times. Just before abandon I was told I was going to be reported for not healing the people marked for chaos (or w/e the buff is called, the one where you walk slowly towards the boss and get one shot), despite explaining how this couldn't be healed through and that if the marked people weren't released, they die.

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Y'know somehow I've never died to that even when I didn't get released. Even at 50-cap it was never enough damage to kill me. It hurt for sure, but it never killed me.