SE please stop putting ex primals in the raid finder and put them back in duty finder

So basically Im pretty frustrated with this I mean RF probably works for savage raids which I do intend to use to do savage. But its no need to put extreme primals in rf its much more of a niche than just simply using duty finder.

Nobody uses Rf for primals thus its forcing my hand to put something up in pf which I really dont want to do. Because for me pf doesn't seem like the place to be being as I dont see a single learning party for anything other than zurvan extreme which honestly at this point I dont even see that any longer. Its mostly just clear parties and have 260 plus gear. Now bismark and Ravana extreme where both in duty finder( and when I finished hw story I cleared them in df) like all the other primals so why is everything else in RF its stupid alot of people dont even know about the feature.

And it ruins things for players like me who simply want to play all content in the game whether its the hot thing to do or not. And plus Im a mentor and the last thing Id want is to maybe get on one day on rf open it up maybe clear by luck, and have it pop up again in the mentor roulette. I have cleared all primals through duty finder never once have I used pf other than a pony farm. Please fix this are some players will never get a chance to even do the hw primals its already bad enough with how things are with the Arr primals but at least if you have patience you can wait it out in duty finder raiders arent gona use rf for an extreme primal its not savage content. So this content has no business doing in raid finder please take it out for current players and for future players.

This topic has come up a few times and gotten very little support:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vs-duty-finder
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ing-a-solution
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Off-my-Chest

Edit:
On the other hand a lot of people are happy about being able to filter out players based on clears: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-ex-back-to-DF

Requests for multi-queuing with RF have gotten some support but no response from SE: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-at-a-time%29

Before RF I typically went for my Ex clears the patch after they released when they hit DF. In 3.4 I found myself waiting for hours to get into Nidhogg Ex and eventually bit the bullet and went to PF. The group I finally got my clear with took ages to fill but it got done eventually.

With cross server PF added in 3.5 I've seen learning groups filling a lot more quickly for older content (at least on Primal). I too would prefer to try my luck in DF since I'm shy about using PF but unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's coming back any time soon. Maybe they'll dump the Exes and Creator Savage into DF when Stormblood hits.

It's fine as is. Even as of last night I see a ton of learning and clear parties for Zurvan.

Okay, so you're telling me that people who are interested in doing this content dont do it because... they cant figure out how to queue for it? Sounds like a good reason to keep people who arent fit for the content out - sorry, being a bit sarcastic here, but if you fail at queuing up because you have to open a different window, I'm worried if you can manage to even get out of an AoE. Your assumption that people dont queue up for this content because they're to dumb to find the queue-window for it, doesnt really hold up. If someone wants to do this content, they'll figure out how to. Granted, they could "advertise" the RF better, but other than that its just a different menu...

I would argue that the reason most people arent doing the more complex/difficult/recent Ex-Primals through RF is the same it always has been: Getting paired up with seven random guys isnt the best way to tackle those fights, since they require coordination, communication and knowledge of the fight. So its prefered NOT to do them in RF/DF in the first place since it will lead to a lot frustation. You're just more sucessful when you can get a full team together, so thats what most people are doing.

RF has the nice addition that you can queue up with "no bonus", making farming through RF a LOT easier because you can make sure not to get paired up with new people each time - even with being a mentor, sometimes I prefer to just get my own stuff done and a Sophia-clear takes 10 minutes, not 45. So I actually like that feature very much (and we dont have it in DF).
I dont want to give up on this just because queuing up for it is a bit more of an inconvenience for the solo-player - and again I doubt that RF is the reason for that, I believe its more the nature of the content. Bismarck and Ravana are the easier primals, no surprise people are more willing to queue up for those with DF. It was the same in ARR - the easy primals like Ruda you were able to queue up for, the more difficult ones... not so much.

And: As long as those duties in RF they wont show up in your mentor roulette, so if they stay there, why worry about that? And if they can show up in your roulette, they've been moved to DF, so... there isnt a problem? Since you can just do them at that point then. Through DF. As you want.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

It's fine as is. Even as of last night I see a ton of learning and clear parties for Zurvan.

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I dont see any , hardly I see mostly bird farms and clear parties, and I mean zurvan is the latest primal so for now people are still doing him frequently. But Id rather not skip to zurvan before I clear sep, thordan , and sophia. It makes no sense at all for them to be in raid finder its not a raid and shouldnt be treated as such, duty finder even if abandoned its still more frequently used, I can get a que for ravana and bis for wt in under 20 mins. So I dont see what the issue would be putting them back in the duty finder, because again even when storm blood comes out their will still be other players filtering through and they will have a better chance in df than rf.

"Nobody uses RF for primals" is pushing it... and I really don't understand how this can ruin anything for anyone, it's pretty similar to DF, except here you can actually queue separately for learning parties and kill parties.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Okay, so you're telling me that people who are interested in doing this content dont do it because... they cant figure out how to queue for it? Sounds like a good reason to keep people who arent fit for the content out - sorry, being a bit sarcastic here, but if you fail at queuing up because you have to open a different window, I'm worried if you can manage to even get out of an AoE. Your assumption that people

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Ok well ramuh would be considered a harder extreme primal from arr it took time but after about 4 or 5 tries I cleared it without a party abandoning. Its more so of probability unlike other players I dont expect to go in and win every time for me its about learning the content seeing where I can improve and seeing where I can give tips to others.

I have been in parties where people have failed garuda extreme , and it doesn't bother me I knew what I was signing up for when I went in to a df. The success rate of clearing for me doesnt have to be extremely high, Ive had parties fail bis, and ravana but the fact that access is higher gives me a better chance than a niche feature like rf that from what Ive seen on primal nobody uses for anything other than Alexander. For people who dont want to do it the df way they clearly already have their option and thats pf some people enjoy this feature I do not, so all of the other primals were in df so its no reason to not have these in there as well even if they are harder. Its not about them being harder its about which feature is more used and df is clearly more used by the player base than rf.

Works fine on Japanese servers, people are using both RF and PF for EX Primals there.

Only thing I missed from DF is the ability to queue for multiple instances at the same time.

Just wish I wouldn't need 2 shortcuts for the UIs to queue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

Works fine on Japanese servers, people are using both RF and PF for EX Primals there.

Only thing I missed from DF is the ability to queue for multiple instances at the same time.

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^^^^^

This.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I dont see any , hardly I see mostly bird farms and clear parties, and I mean zurvan is the latest primal so for now people are still doing him frequently. But Id rather not skip to zurvan before I clear sep, thordan , and sophia. It makes no sense at all for them to be in raid finder its not a raid and shouldnt be treated as such, duty finder even if abandoned its still more frequently used, I can get a que for ravana and bis for wt in under 20 mins.

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Yes, you can do them through DF BECAUSE of WT - BECAUSE people are queueing up for them because they need them for that.
Excatly how is this content so different from the Alexander-raid? Its a huge boss with "complexe" mechanics that cant easly be facerolled and requires everyone to pay attention - it doesnt has a weekly lockout, but thats about it.

If you want to do them in the "correct" order, well thats on you and your "problem" - as in: your choice. If that makes it more difficult for you because other people dont share this... well...

And where excatly is the difference in queueing up in DF or RF? Like, techincally? You open a different menu - one that provides nice features! Instead of eliminating it, we should make sure its more commonly known.

Make your own learning PF.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

"Nobody uses RF for primals" is pushing it... and I really don't understand how this can ruin anything for anyone, it's pretty similar to DF, except here you can actually queue separately for learning parties and kill parties.

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Its just simply not the same like mosaicex said down below you cant even que for more than one at a time. Sometimes you just want to get in so when I was trying to que for sync arr primals I would que for all of them at once it didn't matter which one i was quing for as long as I got in. And on primal I have been quing for thordan extreme for a few weeks now with one or two friends and not even one extra person joins after over 30 mins. And sometimes its really not all about progression players like , this game is not just for those whom are at zurvan, or doing a9s -a12s. what about the level 45 warrior thats in nn right now.

Your essentially telling them we are on zurvan now thats the only one you can do and thats all. If someone is a paying customer they expect to have access to anything that everyone else has access to, so you shouldnt be punished for not being up to date with content I can understand skill level but thats why Im asking for df. Df most people know that chances are they may not succeed but in that process they learn and maybe that first or second try they fail but once they have a good grip on things they can do it again and succeed. Rf just simply doesnt work like this to me its to niche to work like df currently does, I personally do not care who ends up in my part as long as they try and are open to listening and I apply that to myself as well.

The lvl 45 warrior won't even be queuing for that kind of content regardless of their preference for DF or RF though? This example is entirely unrelated to this subject

Okay basically - we have DF, where we can queue for easy and mostly outdated content, and for more higher level/higher complexity play we have PF and RF, which people can use according to their own preferences. You're essentially suggesting RF should be removed because you prefer DF yourself, but why should this mean that RF should be removed?...

I really don't see why RF should be removed because you want to queue for more than one thing at the same time and because you're uncomfortable with PF. RF is working and has helped many people (myself included), and while I do agree that it could use some changes and fine tuning, lumping everything in DF is just not ideal

If people aren't using Raid Finder to queue up for ex primals, they aren't going to use Duty Finder either.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Your essentially telling them we are on zurvan now thats the only one you can do and thats all. If someone is a paying customer they expect to have access to anything that everyone else has access to

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And they HAVE access to this content - they can queue up for it, its open for them. If no one else wants to do said content at that moment - well to bad, buts thats not on SE. Thordan is among the harder fights of the game - lots of mechanics, lots of stuff happening at once. Clearing that in DF/RF isnt to likely anyways, people know that, so they dont queue for it.

You're confusing "having access to content" and "being able to do content at any time you want" - I doubt EX-primals in DF would increase the population of people being interested in doing them through DF.

And honestly, your best bet is to make connections and friends within the game anyways if you want to tackle the more difficult content, not counting on PF, RF and DF so much - if you want to lone-wolf everything, you have to accept the downside to it, which is: Waiting for a group to fill.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Yes, you can do them through DF BECAUSE of WT - BECAUSE people are queueing up for them because they need them for that.
Excatly how is this content so different from the Alexander-raid? Its a huge boss with "complexe" mechanics that cant easly be facerolled and requires everyone to pay attention - it doesnt has a weekly lockout, but

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Your translation basically is just saying well Im sorry that you didnt do the content when it was current, you need to catch up to everyone else and come do the lastest content. Nobody is paying money to do one primal, like I said earlier their are just as many people not at endgame those whom are at end game so why ignore them.

I just dont follow this community sometimes, even when I did the 24 mans for the first time even tho Im a mentor getting comments like noob and stuff like that. Do people not realize its a collective thing its a colletive effort that we all pay money to keep this game alive, so if someone is doing something or wanting to do something for the first time then maybe not all but for all those that did die in the content their first round should just shut up. Duty finder even if you get kicked you can still learn from the content and the next time you que do better, Its been my approach on every piece of content in the game. Like me doing a 12 normal the other tank talked trash , but it was my first run every single run after I get commendations and have never failed at any mechanics granted its easy but still. Its simply about access and you have more access to anything df wise compared to rf there is really no way around it.

@ Vidu Im not a lone wolf I have two or three friends that are open to doing any content in the game with me. The problem is , is that I just have a casual friend base they are much more on the crafting in social aspect of the game than wanting to do the challenging parts of the game. Same with my fc someone ask to unsync the last two Arr dungeons unsync we get it together, or titan normal, or hakku manor , or leveling roulette most people are up for this. But if I ask to do thordan or sep extreme I mostly get silence, I personally have had good experiences with df. The thing is just simply more access equals more likely to get a que and thats all Im asking for, not nerfs are changing content but put it in the pool of things that most of the people in the game use.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

The lvl 45 warrior won't even be queuing for that kind of content regardless of their preference for DF or RF though? This example is entirely unrelated to this subject

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This is simply not true my very post just says stop putting the extreme primals in rf only put them in df like all of the other ones. Thordan, sophia, sep, nidhogg, and now zurvan are no way like 1000s of times harder than the arr primals that are currently in duty finder. According to the forums zurvan and sophia extreme are some of the easiest primals in the game so says the people of the forums so why put them in rf. I never said remove raid finder, Im just saying put raids in raid finder like alex, and put the primals back where they belong in duty finder like all the rest of them.

I know what the TS wants

-I said NO BONUS! Who has the bonus?
Silence

thats it. TS just want with bonus to jump into the NO BONUS groups

I think it really depends on the server. Like I tried to queue for a Zurvan learning raid party a couple days after it was released and got 30+ minute raid times. In PF it was able to fill in minutes.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This is simply not true my very post just says stop putting the extreme primals in rf only put them in df like all of the other ones. Thordan, sophia, sep, nidhogg, and now zurvan are no way like 1000s of times harder than the arr primals that are currently in duty finder. According to the forums zurvan and sophia extreme are some of the easiest primals in the game so says the people of the forums so why put them in rf. I never said remove raid finder, Im just saying put raids in raid finder like alex, and put the primals back where they belong in duty finder like all the rest of them.

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The "rest of them" were already in DF before RF was implemented... I feel it's important to point this out :P the new ones are in RF, allowing people to freely choose to queue for a (hopefully) quick kill or a learning party, if they haven't clered yet. What exactly do you gain from lumping everything in DF, besides being able to queue for multiple instances?

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

The "rest of them" were already in DF before RF was implemented... I feel it's important to point this out :P the new ones are in RF, allowing people to freely choose to queue for a (hopefully) quick kill or a learning party, if they haven't clered yet. What exactly do you gain from lumping everything in DF, besides being able to queue for multiple instances?

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I have had zero success getting even one person to join in on rf, I have had every que pop from garuda extreme utp until ravana extreme in duty finder. And yess quing for multiple things at once is a big deal, it helps out alot instead of being stuck in one single que. I dont understand why youd want it to be gated, like I said I never mention gettin rid of rf which I plan to use it for what it was actually meant for a raid. Raids are niche content primals are not more people are open to doing primals than raids so why lump it together with stuff that only 10 percent of the player base does.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Your translation basically is just saying well Im sorry that you didnt do the content when it was current, you need to catch up to everyone else and come do the lastest content. Nobody is paying money to do one primal, like I said earlier their are just as many people not at endgame those whom are at end game so why ignore them.

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What I'm saying is: Sorry that you werent around when more people were doing this content so that it was easier to get in - and sorry that you're placing restrictions on yourself on how to access this content. Sorry that you dont bother with forming a party of friends to tackle this content. I'm sorry that you have this one very specific way to do this content and that you're locking yourself out because of it. I'm sorry you're late to the party and the cake is gone - and now they're only crumbs left, unless you go and bake yourself another cake.

I am however not sorry about this very nice no-bonus-feature that RF is providing us with - again: it makes farming in RF actually possible. I like that and I'd like to keep it. I have farmed Ruda EX and Ramuh EX when it was current content in DF, my friends were worried I'd go mad over all the shit groups I got. I also farmed Sophia a bit through RF, with the no-bonus option ofc. Easy peasy - not because Sophia is THIS much easier, but because I was able to keep out the people who hadnt seen the fight at all before.

Ravana and Bismarck are extremly outgeared by now, ignoring most of the mechanics - that isnt the case with Thordan, Seph, Nidhogg, Sophia or Zurvan - at least not that badly.

And I honestly dont get this mentalty of "I'm fine with getting a party that will wipe for an hour on phase 1, when I get to see the content at least!" - what is that doing for you?
Listen, I get that you'd like to do this content, and they've made it a lot, lot easier to try it by now - like how you can queue up alone for the most recent EX-primal instead of having to go in with a full group. They're giving us the little finger and you're asking for the whole hand here. And again: the no-bonus feature is just great!
Some people want to farm this content, some people might want to just do/clear it - if there arent enough of the later, thats sad, but not down to the menu that gives you access...

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I dont understand why youd want it to be gated, like I said I never mention gettin rid of rf which I plan to use it for what it was actually meant for a raid.

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So, you're saying that
1) opening a slightly different menu from your normal one - its directly next to the DF-window - is "gating" content?
2) the whole menu just needs a different name when it wants to include more than just the raids? Because its name is bothering you?

Simple reason I want it in RF: No-bonus option when queueing for this content in a group that isnt full or alone. Simple as that. In DF I have no choice but to swallow the bitter pill of risking to run into a tank without provoke or someone who doesnt know the fight when I dont want to LEARN this content right now but clear/farm it for my freaking birds. Its a pretty sweet addition that we have that option now. Sorry, but I dont feel like helping newbies through content ALL the time - once in a while I'd like to focus on my own progress too - and not waste time because people dont get what "Stack on A" means.

... why not just request a multi-queue RF then?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

So, you're saying that
1) opening a slightly different menu from your normal one - its directly next to the DF-window - is "gating" content?

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And when do you actually help newbies the thing is if your not doing this in anything other than harder content your not helping newbies nobody needs help with running ifrit normal they may want help but its not needed because it is simply that easy, all this is doing is creating bad players and a we are current and you are not group. Yea I help new players with basic content but a dungeon will be ran over and over into the ground dungeons are not even close to the same type of challenge as any extreme primal.

So from what I hear from the communtiy I will help you with this easy stuff but this hard stuff over here your own your own. And then those same people come here and make post about people not knowing their rotations and sucking at the new primals and failing at mechanics and stay out of my raid teir, if you dont seriously think that in the long run when we have player after player skipping every piece of challenging content because your not open to being in a primal for 20 mins but youll run copper bell mines for 30 mins then the community will forever suck. And I refuse to suck I went out of my way to clear the old extreme primals when everyone wanted to cake walk me through them unsync and I wasnt about that.

So yes I will get in on content that my first run or so I may piss people off but frankly Im sorry nobody is gona tell me that I cant do content because Im doing it three months later and that I cant fail just like that same person talkin trash probably failed at it three months prier. The people in this game have amnesia or something because in reality things should never really be easy in an mmo simply because you have players that come to the game at different times. Every time I log in to the game I see 200 plus new players in the nn , Im not gona say f them when Im playing a social game and just because Im ahead of them I will give them the same respect that Id want for myself. This is a major issue in this game and its really bad people thats been playing for 2 and 3 years I guess only want to play an mmo with players thats been playing just as long as them well Im sorry your not and I doubt that SE would want new players to stop signing up just because obviously their community wants it this way.

So your issue is actually that you want to play a certain way - play older content and clear it with the same level of difficulty as it was when it was released - , and if you have to make 7 other players stay in a dead end instance for your own enjoyment, then so be it?

... yeah no, please make a PF for a learning experience

You're in your right to want to enjoy an instance to its max difficulty, but do not for a moment think people who have already cleared it months before are obligated to stay in there with you until you feel you've learnt it adequately/until you clear. Some people have cleared it when it came out and want clean and quick runs, and they're as much in their right in wanting that as you are in wanting to do it your way - just don't expect everyone else to cater to that.

As for the last part of your content - it's quite different helping people getting into a game and helping them around the basics, I'm more than willing to do that. Ex primals though? That's end-game content, you've had time to ask, research and learn the basics of your class and even mechanics to older primals, so yes, I would say expections to both these scenarios are and SHOULD be quite different. I'm not going to queue up for sophia ex and help someone learning their core rotation, please choose a better time and place for this kind of thing...

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So from what I hear from the communtiy I will help you with this easy stuff but this hard stuff over here your own your own. And then those same people come here and make post about people not knowing their rotations and sucking at the new primals and failing at mechanics and stay out of my raid teir, if you dont seriously think that in the long run when we have player after player skipping every piece of challenging content because your not open to being in a primal for 20 mins but youll run copper bell mines for 30 mins then the community will forever suck.

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What I said was: I'm not ALWAYS up to help people with their EX-primals. I've been queuing up for them to help people get their clears ever since I felt confident enough to do so. I hop into "help me clear this"-PFs. But once in a while I prefer to have some nice, smooth runs with everyone knowing what they're doing. Am I really to blame for that? Or am I only playing this game to get every new player through EX-Primals myself?

And what is this talk about people not knowing their rotations when it comes to clearing ex-primals? Hell yeah, people will complain about someone at level 60 not knowing their rotation! They had plenty of time to learn about it - ex-primal-fights are certainly not the time nor place to discover which buttons to press in which order. You want endgame-content back in DF and your arguments are "think of the poor level 45 warrior" and "people not wanting to teach someone new to highlevel content their rotation are hurting the community" - how is that related?

Actually, with a little twist you should be benefitting from the RF-system yourself! If the different phases were to be removed and you can either queue up for "cleared it and want to farm" or "learning", you would avoid all those people who sigh and leave instantly when they see someone with bonus or kick the new person because they want their 10-minute-farm-kill.
You see, you want a certain thing: Queuing up for those primals and clearing them the way they were supposed to clear. At the same time I want a certain thing: Getting my Sophia bird. I might have cleared this fight 60 times by now, so I'd like to run it with people that are more or less at the same skilllevel that I am when it comes to this fight, to make achieving my goal easier. DF forces me to put up with people being new to the fight (and again: I do NOT mind teaching and helping, but I cant be asked to sacrifice my own progress enterily and spend more time in those duties in order to teach and watch people learn). Now yes, PF is an option, thats also widely used - but it is also an option for you. And thanks to the RF we got BOTH options with being able to queue up for them!

People who want to learn/clear it dont have to put up with jerks who want their fast clears and get annoyed at wipes in phase 1 anymore - and people who want to farm dont have to teach the fight over and over again, taking twice as long for the clear (or not getting it at all) than need be. Sounds like win-win to me!

(...unless ofc you're counting on experienced and overgeared people to carry you through the content and are worried that those will rather choose the "farm"-option so you're missing out on them)

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What I said was: I'm not ALWAYS up to help people with their

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Im a tank so no I actually dont plan for people to carry me anywhere, ha did you not see my post on the reward system in the game I believe you commented on it so know I actually want to learn to play the game. But I also want people to understand that if you see bonus like you say are that in the beginning of something I say Im new, then I am new to the content I dont need you ragging me. Are I wouldn't rag anyone else either df is for long term implications just like nobody will be doing primals sync once storm blood comes the only option is gona be duty finder if these things arent current, in a rf setting the feature that was made for raiders then it will turn extreme primals into binding coil and what will become of Alexander a ghost town.

Its one thing to have this happen to the raids but the primals shouldn't ever be like raid content because the level of difficulty isnt the same. Rf is for raiders, duty finder is for anyone, and if you are a raider then more than likely you have a static are friends that you do content with on the regular duty finder is for anyone of any circumstances so its a significant difference here. When i waited on my longest Arr primal ques it would be new players that waited for an hour or so to me thats dedication Im not gona tell someone they shouldnt have access to it but when you put the content in a feature made for raiders then you are limiting its access. So to keep the content to at least be able to do it the normal way it has to be in df , because the raiders mindset is current content, so next expansion none of the old stuff would every pop in rf sync, but it would in duty finder because its more used. And again the issue Im saying is less people use rf at least on my server on duty finder the data center search would go deeper into finding other players than it would in rf. I would rather have the chance to access the content more with failed groups and some winning ones to where I can just simply que and get in the content than rf where I may get in but it takes longer to get in df has never taking as long for me as rf.

Somewhere you missed my point and somewhere I lost yours aswell - you're "complaining" now about experienend people in endgame-content being unhappy with seeing a newbie and "ragging" them. You're saying "thats something you should expect when you go in with DF!" - and while that is true to an extend (as in: there is a line about what to expect and what isnt - a level 60 player not knowing their basic rotation clearly isnt okay), the main point of RF is excatly that: To make it easier what to expect. And to seperate the obviously different expectations people are having from the queue.
As I said: Win-Win - people who expect a fast clear or a farm can queue for excatly that by choosing to keep newbies out, and that is totally legit. And people who are looking to learn and clear can queue up for that - keeping those two seperate should actually help both sides, instead of forcing them to put up with each other.

Now about the difficulty... I'm sorry, but you stated that you havent done savage or any of the current EX-primals - you dont seem like the ideal person to judge their difficulty... I've cleared all ex-primals except Zurvan so far aswell as A9S, A10S and got A11S to last phase. A9S for example is from a mechanic-point of view a lot easier than Thordan. Both raids and ex-primals require a certain level of communication and both are complexe, difficult fights. Just because one is called "raid" and the other is called "trial" doesnt mean one is much harder than the other one - the biggest difference is basically the weekly lockout on loot, dont focus so much on the name here...

RF is limiting the pool of people queuing up for content by taking all those who want to farm it out of the "looking to clear"-queue - not by hiding the queue-window... seriously, if you managed to figure out where the dutyfinder-window was when you first wanted to queue for content, you can figure out where the raidfinder-window is. And if you cant do that... I'm not sure if you care that much about doing ex-primals at all.

You expect people who have cleared this content long ago to go back to square one with you, for your sake, while a lot of people have simply moved on and are focussing on more current content now. Does this suck for you? Ofc it does. Are those people to blame? No, they're not, they have every right to put their interest and progress infront of yours - just like you're doing it yourself.
Is a different menue from the usual one to blame for less people queueing up? I doubt it - if you want to access this conent, you'll be able to figure out how. And if you dont to access it, you wont queue up for it anyways.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Somewhere you missed my point and somewhere I lost yours aswell - you're "complaining" now about experienend people in endgame-content being unhappy with seeing a newbie and "ragging" .

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You seem to totally be missing my point, rf sure is fine for now while people are farming the content etc for their birds and want their quick clears etc. But note I have said over and over that I used df to do the Arr primals, and it was other first time players in my groups which means they also used df. If Thordan extreme , Levitation etc where in raid finder then I would have never gotten a sync clear because the time that had passed nobody would be farming it for anything the weapons are old maybe people had the ponies whatever it may be. My only option would have been the bs feature called unsync which I dont even wana get on right now not what this thread is about.

So not only are ques in rf bad now as Ive tried with two healers and a tank being me and got zero people to join with over 30 mins passing. They would be nonexistent in the future when everyone is doing storm blood content, but the thing is unless other players stop signing up for the game then there will be others that want to do this content regardless and they will have a much higher rate of getting in the instance through duty finder than they would in raid finder. I dont only think of myself here I never do I have time and time again said that people want to do content as was but the community tells them this is how its done so they just go with the program. So why allow these primals to be put in a position of no mans zone even when they have new content, it shouldn't be but in rf it would be because again that is for raids, the primals need to be open to as many people as possible that play the game and that is not in rf.

And I watch videos on every piece of content I do follow xeynos for warrior and tanking info, mr happy on content , and mtq, their guides havent failed me on any other content so I doubt it would in any of the stuff that you mention. I plan to do A1s - As12 just because its in the game , but I expect it to be in rf because it is a raid. NO primal is on the level of a raid and like I said they didnt multiple the difficultly of hw primals to be 2000 times harder than their arr predecessors and guides and practice allowed me to clear those. So I dont really see your point in mentioning I havent cleared the new stuff, the only reason I didnt is because I hadn't even done them yet and thats why Im here asking to do them to go back into df where they belong. And let raiders play with their statics, and use pf, if they dont want to be bothered by anyone approach the content when its new because its new to them if they have never done it.

Okay, yep, you're not getting what I'm saying - I'm sorry, but if a different menu is to difficult to find for people... phew... it is nothing but a different system (with a nice filter feature). Its a system everyone has access to. If people cant be bothered to use it... geez... you're really saying people are to stupid to use a different menu to queue up for content?

RF is not bad, period. If people cant find it, they obviously dont care enough about doing that content at all - IT IS A FREAKING DIFFERENT MENU! Right below DF - dont make it sound as if it would be some crazy loophole to jump through to queue up for that content so that people dont bother with it anymore. Why cant you give the RF a chance, just as you're asking us to give new players a chance? People will get used to it eventually - specially those who are actually doing ex-primals.

Listen, I get that you want to do this content a certain way - but if not enough people share this wish, there is nothing that can be done about it.
The PF argument goes both ways - I can tell you to make a PF to learn just as legit as you can tell me to make a PF to farm. No one of us is more entitled to their prefered experience in DF. However RF allows both of us to queue up for excatly what we want, if we get enough people who share our interest isnt excatly up to the system.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Okay, yep, you're not getting what I'm saying - I'm sorry, but if a different menu is to difficult to find for people... phew... it is nothing but a different system (with a nice filter feature). Its a system everyone has access to. If people cant be bothered to use it... geez... you're really saying people are to stupid to use a different menu to queue up for content?
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The second poster on this thread showed where it is an issue for multiple people and that some of this stuff use to be in duty finder instead of raid finder if anything it should be in both. Yes people know of the feature but up until recently I just thought it was for the raids only. But I guess I will have to resort to pf its just a bit annoying when I could of done it in df like all the other ones, I really think its a disservice to the majority of players that just simply want to play the game.

I agree. I've actually had many people ask me where the raid finder was...or where ex primals were only to be met with confusion when I say raid finder.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I dont see any , hardly I see mostly bird farms and clear parties, and I mean zurvan is the latest primal so for now people are still doing him frequently. But Id rather not skip to zurvan before I clear sep, thordan , and sophia. It makes no sense at all for them to be in raid finder its not a raid and shouldnt be treated as such, duty finder even if abandoned its still more frequently used, I can get a que for ravana and bis for wt in under 20 mins. So I dont see what the issue would be putting them back in the duty finder, because again even when storm blood comes out their will still be other players filtering through and they will have a better chance in df than rf.

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They were put in the raid finder for the same reason raid finder exists in the first place. to filter out players. because doing extreme primals and savages in duty finder was impossible to get clears.. raid finder was added so players could queue up those fights and get matched only with people who had clears thus have at least a decent chance of actually getting more clears...

I get quite a few groups in raid finder for various extremes. and often I tend to prefer the raid finder cos it means I can jump in do 1 or 2 runs and jump out. where pf groups tend to expect you do stick around for a much longer time than just a couple of runs.. plus a growing trend on party finders is ridiculous ilevel requirements. zurv ex farm 265+ ilevel requirements.... so raid finder it is. and it works.. i'd say 80% of my sophic weapons and totems came from raid finder in 3.4... and currently almost all my zurvan things are from raid finder groups. because of the ridiculous ilevels on party finders. (no weapons won but 22 totems)..

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Originally Posted by Vidu

RF has the nice addition that you can queue up with "no bonus", making farming through RF a LOT easier because you can make sure not to get paired up with new people each time - even with being a mentor, sometimes I prefer to just get my own stuff done and a Sophia-clear takes 10 minutes, not 45. So I actually like that feature very much (and we dont have it in DF)..

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This is true but I feel it needs more restrictions as well. because queing > incomplete > completion when it's your first time or you haven't it made it past the adds shouldn't be possible... the only option you should be allowed to use is "practice" until you've got the boss down to single digits or see nthe enrage or something...

in both zurvan and soph I got to a point pretty fast where I was getting to 3-5% several times and every group I got after that couldn't even make it to or past the adds. just people ticking completion hoping for a carry when they should have queud practice and not wasted everyones time....

Also these restrictions need to work in pf groups as well. cos theres a topic here where people are saying people with bonus are sneaking into farm parties.... if someone has bonus it shouldn't let the leader queue "Complete > completion" cos someone doesn't meet requirements....... yet it seems it does.. which again seems to be contrary to the reason the raid finder was implemented in the first place

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Originally Posted by Dzian

They were put in the raid finder

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So basically ur saying screw the people that's still working on their heavens ward story or arr story. What I hear is this is my content cause I made it here first that's just horrible and unwelcoming. I really wonder at what point someone is suppose to learn hard content. It's unsync the old bis and ravana are to easy so supposbly that's not enough to have access to anything else sense it's all locked in rf. I feel like the community must want bad players are something.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

I agree. I've actually had many people ask me where the raid finder was...or where ex primals were only to be met with confusion when I say raid finder.

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So... they asked someone, got an answer and now they know and can use and access the content thats in raidfinder? Because they were able to inform themself about it? That sounds like a pretty good solution to me, actually! Better than just flat out removing a feature that, when its working correctly, is benefitting everyone (except ofc those people who dont really want to learn the fights and are just hoping that seven random people will carry them)

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So basically ur saying screw the people that's still working on their heavens ward story or arr story. What I hear is this is my content cause I made it here first that's just horrible and unwelcoming. I really wonder at what point someone is suppose to learn hard content. It's unsync the old bis and ravana are to easy so supposbly that's not enough to have access to anything else sense it's all locked in rf. I feel like the community must want bad players are something.

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Okay, how do you actually think the majority of people did this content? We're not denying anyone access to this content when we're saying that we also like the addition of being able to run this content without teaching it once in a while. It is not "locked" in raidfinder - infact content is getting less and less gated by the game itself - its just a different menu. We're not claiming this content for us, we're just saying: Now there is less interest in said content, because people want to do the new stuff - thats why you see 20 Zurvan groups but only 5 for other ex-primals.
You're more than welcome to approach this content and I can only advice you to build a network for content like this - yes, yes, you only got a few casual friends and an FC thats not interested in EX-primals. But guess what - so did I. And when I wanted to do this content the proper way, I started to build a linkshell, picking up every person from ex-primal-groups that were formed through PF who seemed nice, skilled and interested in trying further content together. I must have collected about 60 people now and if we wish we can do content without even touching DF/RF (or well, without randoms).

You feel as if you're being left out when you insist on doing this content a very specific way, that simply doesnt seem to be shared by enough others - that is a shame ofc, but why should I suffer for that?

The problem is few people bother to use RF. There are even some people who don't know where it is. As for the groups. Did you even think that when you don't see any groups currently on PF you can actually make your own? Why everyone always waiting for someone else to create groups?

What exactly is the difference between RF and DF? I've never used the former. Is it more like PF or DF? It seems to me like it's just DF that enables greater selectivity, but I could be wrong, having never used it.

that's pretty much right. Raid Finder allows for queuing for party formation where you have either cleared it or have not. of the options for not having cleared it before - you can choose practice and which part of the fight you are trying to get down - right now there's just choices for beginning or final phase. Or you can choose to go for duty completion (i.e. a kill/clear party). all these options group ppl into like minded categories to better pair ppl up with like minded goals. Duty Finder just throws everyone together regardless of fight status.