Removal of Chat in Solo Feast Makes the Game Mode Not Fun

The fact that the development team thought removing the functionality to communicate in an online MMORPG seriously blows my mind. The inability to chat make calls and strategize with players in Solo/Practice feast now makes the game mode unbearable.

In addition - it makes teaching new players or under skilled players next to impossible. Seriously square - if trolls and rage personalities caused you to do this then you should just ban them rather than remove a critical tool in any team play - communication.

The new "chat" commands are clunky - don't work - don't convey the correct information half the time - and are down right garbage.

I'm so disgusted that any modern game development team would think removing communication from a competitive environment would be ok. What a massive disappointment.

Plz replace the "not fun" with "so silly" in title

Plz do not start a new thread when there are existing ones already.

On the contrary, continue to make threads.

They've seemingly ignored the one we started the day it was announced for 3 months, and then only to ask for suggestions (as if we hadn't been giving any all that time).

Keep this matter in their face. Don't let it continue to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

Plz do not start a new thread when there are existing ones already.

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As I previously said:

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Keep this matter in their face. Don't let it continue to be ignored.

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If nothing else, we want a legit "we've heard you and this is how we're going to handle it response." No more, "give us your feedback on the forums!" They have 4 months and 70+ pages of that in one thread alone. And if THAT won't get the point across, then we need to keep it in their face, so that it absolutely cannot be ignored.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

If nothing else, we want a legit "we've heard you and this is how we're going to handle it response."

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

Greetings, adventurers.

Thank you for all of the feedback you have provided in regards to the chat restrictions in The Feast. Please rest assured that we have been sharing your thoughts with the development team and will continue to do so.

At this time, the team is planning on making improvements to the quick chat feature to improve communication. If you have any suggestions for improvements to this feature, including additions of phrases such as "Please recover MP," be sure to let us know!

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They already did give exactly that response. The first bolded part is very clearly:"We heard you.", while the second bolded part states what they're going to do about it.

I mean, I get it, nobody likes the response, but that doesn't mean it wasn't given.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

They already did give exactly that response. The first bolded part is very clearly:"We heard you.", while the second bolded part states what they're going to do about it.

I mean, I get it, nobody likes the response, but that doesn't mean it wasn't given.

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Here's a suggestion - remove the crappy commands and put chat back in. If there are toxic players ban them - if people can't handle constructive criticism tell them to get over it, and if they abuse the support desk reporting issues constantly that aren't issues - ban them too. Don't remove a core mechanic and functionality to competitive play just because you don't want to moderate them. If that's the case - just remove arena PvP all together.

I wonder what JP community says about it.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

I wonder what JP community says about it.

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[良くやった!]
[良くやった!]
[良くやった!]
[良くやった!]

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Originally Posted by Arthur_Gwen

Plz replace the "not fun" with "so silly" in title

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https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/...6/61790976.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zojha

They already did give exactly that response. The first bolded part is very clearly:"We heard you.", while the second bolded part states what they're going to do about it.

I mean, I get it, nobody likes the response, but that doesn't mean it wasn't given.

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Please note, I said a legit response. Posting on page 40 of a thread largely expressing no desire for, and absolute dislike of quick chat and saying "If you have any suggestions for improvements to this feature. . ." implies that the first 39 pages were either ignored, not fully comprehended, or they really DIDN'T hear us after all those months. If you wanted a blue object and I gave you a red one you didn't want, then asked you for suggestions on how to improve your red object, is that a legit response to your complaint of receiving red when you never asked for red? No.

We didn't say we want an improved quick chat, especially before it was implemented (don't forget that thread predates the change). We didn't want it. At all. We never wanted it. And we said it would cause the problems it has. Now they want suggestions for improvement?

Simple: Get rid of it. It was a bad change. Undo it.

Maybe if the childish brats didn't get their fun in pvp from harassing other players, this wouldn't have been a thing. This whole arguement is reminiscent of a child crying about a punishment that they rightfully earned. There is really not much beyond retreat that needs to be said in feast. You don't NEED to talk shit to other players, you simply get off on trying to be an internet bully.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

Maybe if the childish brats didn't get their fun in pvp from harassing other players, this wouldn't have been a thing. This whole arguement is reminiscent of a child crying about a punishment that they rightfully earned. There is really not much beyond retreat that needs to be said in feast. You don't NEED to talk shit to other players, you simply get off on trying to be an internet bully.

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Except most of the people who are complaining didn't earn it. It's like if little Tommy stole milk, and then entire school got detention for Tommy stealing milk.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Except most of the people who are complaining didn't earn it. It's like if little Tommy stole milk, and then entire school got detention for Tommy stealing milk.

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More like little tommy bullied a bunch of kids into killing themselves so the school takes a no bully stance. Thats closer to the mark when it involves people quitting pvp or the game over a toxic environment.

The removal of the chat is bad, whats worse is the cheaters. I really hope SE bring back the chat for season 4 and do something about the cheaters, having to deal with both in a mid-season is disheartening.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

More like little tommy bullied a bunch of kids into killing themselves so the school takes a no bully stance. Thats closer to the mark when it involves people quitting pvp or the game over a toxic environment.

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Doesn't mean the kids who had nothing to do with it should be punished for Tommy's bullying. In fact, the kids who constantly told on Tommy (reported) are getting punished now. Amplifying the issue doesn't make the blanket punishment justifiable. I don't think anyone arguing for the removal of chat ban thinks that they should put back chat without a system to punish the heinous offenders. They have a system now though, the new macro system. If I was punished for x number of matches by not being able to communicate, I would think twice about being toxic to someone. Repeat offenders should just be banned too, if they are acting that way in PvP, then they are probably also acting the same way in PvE.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Please note, I said a legit response.

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I'm just going to quote myself here.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And that's why I made that mocking comment - I don't believe an answer that doesn't give that support is going to make the people against the chat-ban happy or quell the argument. In fact, people would feel even more ignored, because even though they were heard, their concerns are brushed off. And if they give that support but it amounts to nothing, people cry foul again because "false promises!". No way they can realistically win there.

That said, I'm fairly certain that "eventually", someone from SE will come and say a few words on the matter anyway, for the better or worse. Most likely regurgitating things that have been said already, only with official flavor this time. But considering how niché PvP is, I'd not expect a reply anytime soon. File it as yet another reason why increasing the regular playerbase is crucial.

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TL;DR: You do not want a legit response. The one and only response you want is that they go:"Sorry for implementing it, we'll take it back." Full stop. Anything else will be labeled "not legit". And I called that when people were asking for a response the first time around.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

More like little tommy bullied a bunch of kids into killing themselves so the school takes a no bully stance. Thats closer to the mark when it involves people quitting pvp or the game over a toxic environment.

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Let me be brutally realistic here. Let's not sugarcoat things and let's call it like it is.

People largely are uninterested in PvP in FFXIV. They believe it "doesn't belong" in the game, and generally treat it and its players with absolute disdain. There are people that feel similarly about raids and wrongfully label people who simply enjoy raiding as elitists because there are, in fact, a few raiders with nasty attitudes that look down on others.

But there's a lot that goes unseen.

People see a PvPer and assume they're "toxic". . . But they don't see the guy on his team afking at the starting point, jumping every 30 seconds so he doesn't get autokicked. They don't see the person telling him to shut up when he gives good advice based on his experience. They don't see him trying his best even when he knows he's unfortunately the only one on his team who knows what to do. They don't see his efforts to be civil being met with rude rebuffs or completely ignored. They don't see his efforts to carry himself well and be a good player being torn down by blanket statements about him simply because he plays PvP. Worst of all, because they don't see this, it's easy to simply subscribe to the idea that "PvPers are toxic" because so few really see, and fewer even know.

The same can be said of raiders - PvE players. I'll speak only for myself on this one, but I had members of an old FC once label me elitist, which was quite the insult. Yes, there were times I refused people who I knew were simply looking to be carried. I busted my ass to learn fights, gear up, and network with others outside an FC that largely did not do the same and was entirely not interested in raiding for a long time. It was, I imagine, easy for someone to look at me and say I was elitist to not blindly help or run anything with people who, in patch 3.0 still hadn't cleared or attempted to even learn content from 2.1. But they didn't see all the learning parties I'd spent hours trying to pull together for people. They didn't see how those learning parties produced zero results as no one was actually trying to learn it, they were just doing it "because everyone else was", and retained nothing. They DID however see when I stopped trying to teach, became distant, and barely spoke to them, though I was still friendly toward them despite all that. . . Thus suddenly, I'm an "elitist".

History lessons aside, let's be real for a moment: You come in here finger pointing and taking a "serves them right" stance, but the only thing you offer in support of that is the usual bad stereotype. People believe PvPers are so largely toxic players, but what if - just what if - we simply enjoy PvP, but DON'T like being labeled, especially by people who make little to no effort to understand or meet us halfway? I imagine that'd make a lot of people mad. And they'd be fully justified in that anger. One could argue that purely because it's existed longer and accounts for far more percent of the game than PvP does, PvE is effectively more toxic. But you don't see anyone here making blanket statements about PvE-only players, even when many of the cases I mentioned above were largely scenarios encountered when PvE players step into PvP, uncooperative, and unwilling to learn. And experience has given me quite the impression that those who "quit PvP over a toxic environment" either don't seriously try, lack competitive spirit, or have received karma for undue negativity. This isn't true for all cases, I'm sure, but most would likely fall under those categories.

Fact is, the "toxicity" people so largely accuse PvPers of, begins with that stereotype being accepted as the truth, and non-PvPers acting on it or approaching us with already-uncooperative attitudes. There are bad apples on both sides. If we allow them to speak for both sides as a whole, what would that say of either communities? Consider that before you go making blanket statements next time.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

TL;DR: You do not want a legit response.

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Alright, let me make this as clear as I can:

After 3 months and 39 pages of complaints before and after the change, concerns of potential issues, and SUGGESTIONS, a call for suggestions is not a legit response. The standing idea is "Please give us your feedback on the official forums!" We did that. For 3 months and 39 pages before they responded, and only to effectively say "please give us your feedback on the official forums!" Guess what was said on the last livestream, now 4 months and 70+ pages later? "Please give us your feedback on the official forums!"

We're past the point of suggestions. The community has very loudly spoken up about it. Many of us want something to be done on this, at the very least, we want to know something will be done.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Alright, let me make this as clear as I can:

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You do not need to because it's obvious and was obvious from the get-go: You and many other people didn't want it in the first place and now you want it gone ASAP.

That's not hard to understand. As such, "doing something about it" always means exactly one thing and only one thing: Re-instating full chat. Period, full stop. Any other "something" is unacceptable. That's the gist of almost the entire feedback and suggestions given on the forums and on the stream. The 70+ page thread is full of messages with nothing else and that's been the chorus from the start. For this camp, the rest is negotiable, as long as normal chat comes back.

And all that feedback is pointless because for SE, that point was and is non-negotiable. They know full well nobody wants to be muted, you do not need feedback to know nobody likes that. In spite of this, they deem in necessary. They do see your frustrations about not being able to communicate properly however and they are going to do something about it by improving quick chat. They have stated such quite clearly and that is their response to your feedback. And because that is their response, they have asked for suggestions on how to improve it. Something will be done.

But the issue here is clear as day: The something they do about it is not the something you want them to do about it. And thus, it's not a something at all.
That aside, we're not past the point of suggestions, because there has never been a point of suggestions in the first place. The "suggestion" people keep bringing is "Remove it." and SE says "No. We improve quick chat instead." In other words, the suggestion has been denied. Claiming you'd be past the point of suggestions just because your suggestion gets denied only means that you never suggested anything in the first place - you were making a demand, not a suggestion. And this has been the case from the start.

So then what you're saying, if I'm understanding it right, is that SE is willfully choosing to ignore all the problems it's caused for the one thing it didn't even manage to fix? I know it's not YOU saying it, I'm merely interpreting your interpretation here. I'd like to point out a large part of the frustration here was that SE was completely silent on the matter for the longest time, thus popping up and asking for suggestions was, yet again, further insult to the community. I'd like to also point out that others have actually suggested using quick chat as a light punishment for people that actually do break the rules. That too, was ignored.

However back to my main point. Are you saying that Square Enix feels Quick Chat should be improved, inflexibly overlooking the fact that:

-Players are still toxic, if not more so now because of the frustration at not being able to communicate properly
-Players are using Quick Chat TO be toxic
-The overall gameplay experience has taken a huge nosedive considering many don't know what to do, can't ask, nor can be told
-Deaf players have no effective means of communication at all, considering VoIPs are not an option for them
-Many of the new players attracted by the change now see the issues it's caused - the very same issues we said would happen
-People are starting to send/receive nasty tells to each other after/between matches - Another issue we said might happen
-Playstation 4 players, who are already at a loss for hotbar space are even further burdened by this, and the "improvements" (in the way of additional commands) will only compound the problem

Well? Are you saying SE is intent on pushing this after it's been so thoroughly proven that it's a bigger problem than a solution? Because if so, now we're dealing with a complete lack of understanding of the community, and a failure to listen to good ideas that could have prevented the situation we now have. Look at the forums. So many threads complaining about this (with only a few misguided ones applauding it). How could anyone at this point be foolish enough to continue trying to push and fix something they know was so bad? Yes we're making demands now. The suggestions and feedback went ignored for months. Then again, there was never much discussion to be had on the matter. Simply, "We're going to make this controversially terrible change to the Feast. The end."

Oh right, "Please give us your feedback on the official forums!" There's always that.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So then what you're saying, if I'm understanding it right, is that SE is willfully choosing to ignore all the problems it's caused for the one thing it didn't even manage to fix?

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Basically. Though I wouldn't say they are ignoring it, they simply think it's the lesser of two evils. What transpired to make them think that, I do not know. Why they keep thinking that, I do not know. I'm not an SE employee, I have no insight in their internal situation before nor after. All I know is that what little they have said and done on the matter can only mean this - They heard you, they know what you think, but they think differently and act accordingly. That's all.

As for the suggestions: I read them. In almost all cases, the format was X + Y, with X being "Keep Free Chat" and Y being anything from "Nothing" over "Automated Systems" to "Up your GM staff". The Y was negotiable and varied. The X was not. That's the opposite of SE's apparent position: Restricting Chat is not negotiable, but the rest is. I repeat: They didn't go and say that explicitly. But it's apparent from the fact that they never asked for feedback on that in the first place and their intent to not take it back, but rather improve on quick chat instead, even after hearing all your feedback.

That this results in similar issues as when a socialist and a capitalist argue is not really surprising. What I'm trying to get across is that the conflict in all likelihood is caused by disagreement, not communication issues. And I'm not precluding the possibility that their stance will change. But as of now, in my opinion, that is the status quo, the reasoning for this conclusion being stated above.

I think it needs to be said that if choosing the lesser of two evils when there's in fact, a good and better third choice, shows poor decision making/handling skills, and only further casts a poor light on the abilities of the PvP team to do the right thing. While that in and of itself would be a larger issue than what the community wants, it does pose a direct conflict with that, and can't be overlooked. Still, it's out of the community's hands to affect who's assigned to what within SE, but all we can do, and what we've been doing is voicing and showing our disapproval of the change. Purely from a business standpoint, SE and their PvP team need to wake up and start listening to the PvP community, lest they fully alienate them and kill the content.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

They already did give exactly that response. The first bolded part is very clearly:"We heard you.", while the second bolded part states what they're going to do about it.

I mean, I get it, nobody likes the response, but that doesn't mean it wasn't given.

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One response like that on an issue like this is not enough. Also that was AFTER the change, we where completely ignored when talking about it for 3 months? We are owed more detailed response then that

Further, the longer this is in discussion and the more vocal the PvP community is about it the harder it becomes to ignore. As a minority of players are committed to PvP, it generally does take SE a long time to respond. However; the squeaky wheel gets the grease and outcry on a closed forum may become noteworthy and newsworthy across the entire gaming community. SE Doesn't want bad press for their upcoming expansion; so perhaps it's time to move to a more public forum http://gamerescape.com/? http://www.pcgamer.com/? http://www.mmorpg.com/?

Llus, you are absolutely correct, and I thank you for that.

The answer isn't simply rolling over and accepting things as is. The squeaky wheel gets the grease; you said it perfectly.
Making it more public is good too. I made a post in General Discussion a while back, even noting that I knew it was in the wrong place, but did so for exposure. . . only to have it shuffled into the PvP section that's apparently so easily ignored. I like your idea VERY much.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

You don't NEED to talk shit to other players, you simply get off on trying to be an internet bully.

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No, no-one needs to talk shit. But, being able to tell somebody how the game works would be really freaking nice. Feast is full of people who have no idea what they're doing right now, and there's no way to help them figure it out. I scoured the internet for info when the Garo event started so I could learn. I'm an extreme minority. It's like being unable to explain a boss mechanic that keeps wiping you.

Removing the chat mode in the feast is hard cause it makes a lot of miscommunication. Then people end up blaming each other for not being on target or attacking the players that the healer tried to sleep. There are so much lost communication in the feast right now. I don't think see good thing of removing the chat to stop bully or toxic in pvp. I think right now it is more toxic because people would just send /tell to another player calling them trash, scrub or name after the match. Instead of resolving it, people are now accusing each other for win trade cause tank accidently picked up 7 stacks cause nobody want to pick up or healer called fall back due to mp and melee didn't see it and not fall back. The community becomes even worst cause people are now taking it really personal because they are sending tell or screaming out in public and call name.

My favorite is when I die as a healer and my Paladin spams "Nice Job!".

My Paladin that has full MP....

My Paladin that hasn't used cover or tetsudo........

Or Clemency. Don't forget the literal heal they could give you. . .

Keep it coming people. We need at least 37 more pages before we get a response, apparently.

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Originally Posted by yumeyume

Removing the chat mode in the feast is hard cause it makes a lot of miscommunication. There are so much lost communication in the feast right now. I don't think see good thing of removing the chat to stop bully or toxic in pvp. I think right now it is more toxic because people would just send /tell to another player calling them trash, scrub or name after the match.

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Not sure if the chat banned causes more toxicity in the feast, it is definitely more frustrating. At the start of the chat banned, I saw my healer saying "hello" in the middle of the fight, playing as a pld at the time I didn't know what that mean, I was doing everything I could to support my team. I saw the healer say it again "hello". It wasn't until our dps didn't get heal that I realized our healer was out of mp but didn't have a way to communicate that. Lots of players still don't know what these alternative meaning of the chat macro means.

Healer MP macros used to work perfectly for that.

Now? They don't even get an option other than "Hello".

. . . Cause THAT works. . .

At the beginning of the fight:

Tank: Attacking Healer
Healer: Stopping healer.
DPS - now I am confused.

Usually for healer from my pov:

First hello: You are out of sight
Second Hello: No MP
Third Hello: Are you guys stupid or what?
Nice Job: I quit.

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Originally Posted by yumeyume

At the beginning of the fight:

Tank: Attacking Healer
Healer: Stopping healer.
DPS - now I am confused.

Usually for healer from my pov:

First hello: You are out of sight
Second Hello: No MP
Third Hello: Are you guys stupid or what?
Nice Job: I quit.

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Lol, so that's what nice job means. Dammit, and at the time I thought my teammates was complimented me.