1.0 player says "Expert Roulette" is a brick wall

This was the last of my statements to Square-Enix of things I would like to see changed.

If this is changed or not changed, since it is the least of my things of interest, its unlikely to effectively weigh/influence my choice for staying or taking another break.

Any following responses were me, responding to people, as I thought it was opening a discussion, not an argument.

Thank you.

Original Post:

Sorry for a repost:

Here is a thread, I support with a similar mindset:
Has 133 likes..

Tired of tomes grind thread




I have come back to this game after a 2-3 month break, but because of the design of expert roulette and tomes, I doubt I will resubscribe.

Since 2013, when this game released I have been doing expert roulette.

This is the only solid method to obtaining tomes, and I have very low motivation to do it, which means i'm very unlikely to resubscribe.

Imagine, if every single dungeon in the entire game gave half the tome reward as the two "expert roulette" dungeons.

Sastasha level 15 dungeon gave 50 Poetics, 40 Lore, 25 Scipture
Sohm Al Hard level 60 gave 100 Poetics, 80 Lore, 50 Scripture


Imagine how "undead" all the "old" content would be.

People wouldnt mind doing old content. It would be rewarding and you could always accomplish 2 tasks at once, allowing players to do more content besides expert.

People with limited time could do things other than expert roulette
and
People with a lot of time would never have to do expert roulette.


Why in the world of Hydaelyn Earth Universe of Vana'diel Eos, Gaia is the only viable option to obtain tomes expert roulette, and all the other content driven to death by lack of reward?!

Makes zero sense tome... (i just typo'ed that instead of saying "to me" but I think it fits so i'm not going to fix it.)



Edit:

Not only would giving tomes to all dungeons mean people actually have options, content doesnt die,

but when story content is released youre not forced to do it day one to unlock expert roulette so you can start getting tomes again,

which allows you to do story content on your own time/leisure!

Youc an actually get tomes in various ways now. Roulette is just a daily bonus method. Examples; raids, treasury maps, normal dungeon selection, beast man quest, if your job is capped any extra xp gets converted to tomes.

I haven't done expert roulette in months and I cap tomes every week.
Tomes are not hard to come by. Put yourself forward to other goals in the game, it has a lot to offer.

A very quick way to get Tomes of Scripture right now is do go Frontline Shatter, you can get like 50 Lore + 20 Scripture every 20 min

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Youc an actually get tomes in various ways now. Roulette is just a daily bonus method. Examples; raids, treasury maps, normal dungeon selection, beast man quest, if your job is capped any extra xp gets converted to tomes.

---

I have been playing quite a bit this past month, and I only capped tomes 1 week out of 3 so far. The week I capped I spammed the Alexander story fights, and 4-5 expert roulette duneons to get some gear/cap scripture. (Expert roulette like 1-2 times that week, but had to do the dungeons on top of the roulette to unlock roulette in the first place.)

This week so far I have done expert roulette twice and already halfway passed my required 3.0 dungeons for the Machinist relic, and not even halfway to capping scripture.

Aside from scripture I have only been able to buy 4-5 pieces of lore gear from all the dungeons i have done.

Personally I feel if you play the game, doing dungeons in a level synced party you should never "have" to do expert. Personally I feel expert roulette should be for people on limited time, and should only have to do it 2-3 times a week.

5 times a week to cap tomes, and get a handful of other tomes in way over the top, especially when only 2-3 dungeons compile the list for the roulette.

Not only is this repetitive, but also kills "old" content. Again..

Imagine, if every single dungeon in the entire game gave half the tome reward as the two "expert roulette" dungeons.

Sastasha level 15 dungeon gave 50 Poetics, 40 Lore, 25 Scipture
Sohm Al Hard level 60 gave 100 Poetics, 80 Lore, 50 Scripture


Imagine how "undead" all the "old" content would be.

Again my response is to mix it up. There's no need to only do expert roulette when so many other options give you tomestones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

Again my response is to mix it up. There's no need to only do expert roulette when so many other options give you tomestones.

---

this basically. an example routine i have is that (tuesday) i start it off by doing weekly savage loot/page runs, then vath beast tribes, a few hunts here and there, some potd, help friends with their relic aether farm (a1s spam), HW ex trial mount farm runs, and only 1 expert and i'm done for the week's scripture cap by wednesday or thursday :)

The game throws tomestones at you in bunches no matter which content you do nowadays. The last time I even ran expert roulette a single time during the entirety of the patch was back in 3.3, and even back then it was like..once a week at most.

I do 24-man raids for the lore upgrade items, clear some old ex primals for Khloe, farm a bit of PvP for Garo event and by that time have already hit cap (usually Wednesday to Thursday) so I don't even get any more tomes for bird farming, raiding, mentor roulette, light farm, PotD for materia, daily beasttribes for dances and whatever else I come up with the rest of the week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

Again my response is to mix it up. There's no need to only do expert roulette when so many other options give you tomestones.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astyrah

this basically. an example routine i have is that (tuesday) i start it off by doing weekly savage loot/page runs, then vath beast tribes, a few hunts here and there, some potd, help friends with their relic aether farm (a1s spam), HW ex trial mount farm runs, and only 1 expert and i'm done for the week's scripture cap by wednesday or thursday :)

---

The problem is i'm trying to *avoid* a routine, and my attempts to "mix it up" are not rewarding the amount of tomes worthy of the time invested.

I want to play a video game to enjoy it, I dont want a second job.

The reason being, is when "new" content is added "old" content suffers a hit to rewards, yet do not reflect amount of time completed in relation to tomes rewarded, which in turns to said content's "death."

This is the point of the thread.

Renew old content by granting tomes in relation to time invested.



Example:

Just ran level 57 the Vault dungeon

Took as long if not longer than Sohm al (Hard)

Rewards:

0 Scripture
0 Lore
0 Poetics
0 Experience (already level 60 every job)
1,000 gil (not enough to repair a piece of gear (right? I dont know, I use dark matter.)
1-2 pieces gear worth like 400 or so Grand Company seals

Same as what someone said above; it's ridiculously easy to cap tomes. When I'm very active, I cap by Wednesday. When I take it easy, I cap by Friday or Saturday. I rarely do EX roulette - typically only do it with FC mates when they ask.

If you're a returning player, there is a ton of content for you to do. All three 24 man raids, Frontlines if you want any Garo gear/rewards, Alexander Creator, pick up some dragonskin maps and try out Aquapolis, pick up Wondrous Tails from Khloe and get rewards in addition to doing a mix of content, Palace of the Dead, and if you haven't cleared all the extreme primals, try working through those from easiest (Bismarck) to most recent (Zurvan).

Some weeks I capped off one EX, a Dun Scaith or Weeping City, and running Alexander Creator trying to get a drop, all in 24 hours or so. Getting those Creator drops is tough.

If it's just a game and you only want to enjoy yourself.....relax and play it how you want, don't get caught up in forcing yourself to cap scripture. Do the things you want and use the scripture as it comes.

Old content is in leveling roulette, 50 roulette, 60 roulette and so on.
Old trials are in Khloe. Old raids give the best time to light ratio. Old 24-man gives relic items. Literally no old content is dead and needs to be "brought back to life" by putting the highest endgame currency in it.

I can clear Sastasha in 2-3 min (already do that for Khloe anyways). You say you want to avoid a routine, but all that would do is get everyone to just farm Sastasha instead because it will only take half an hour to cap tomes that way.

I'm sorry but all you are saying just sounds incredibly missinformed. You just came back, how about you try actually doing things first (you know, other things, not expert roulette) before you complain about the lack of options, when there's a nearly unlimited number of options out there.

And that's not even counting that there IS NO REASON TO HAVE LORE GEAR AT ALL if you are not actually doing content that requires it. If you ONLY do below 60 dungeons, you don't have any need for ilvl 260/270 gear, so just don't bother getting it at all. If you do lvl 60 content, pretty much everything DOES give you the currency, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with the system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

The problem is i'm trying to *avoid* a routine, and my attempts to "mix it up" are not rewarding the amount of tomes worthy of the time invested.

I want to play a video game to enjoy it, I dont want a second job.

The reason being, is when "new" content is added "old" content suffers a hit to rewards, yet do not reflect amount of time completed in relation to tomes rewarded, which in turns to said content's "death."

This is the point of the thread.

Renew old content by granting tomes in relation to time invested.

---

while i did say routine in my post, it isn't really a routine and it's more of a string random nothings and what i happened to feel like doing at the time. well the weekly savage is the only routine in my "routine" and that doesnt take more than a few hours (less than 1.5 hours if queues are good in RF) depending on queue times - and that's for the whole week.

as for renewing old content, i think they're fine as is and even if you give them rewards and incentives for 60/max level jobs/class you wouldn't be spamming sastasha level sync'd (and let's face it they wont let you have the tomes if you unsync it) that would really be boring and we already have leveling and mentor roulette to help the queues for 1-59 dungeons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

I have been playing quite a bit this past month, and I only capped tomes 1 week out of 3 so far. The week I capped I spammed the Alexander story fights, and 4-5 expert roulette duneons to get some gear/cap scripture. (Expert roulette like 1-2 times that week, but had to do the dungeons on top of the roulette to unlock roulette in the first place.)


This week so far I have done expert roulette twice and already halfway passed my required 3.0 dungeons for the Machinist relic, and not even halfway to capping scripture.

Aside from scripture I have only been able to buy 4-5 pieces of lore gear from all the dungeons i have done.

Personally I feel if you play the game, doing dungeons in a level synced party you should never "have" to do expert. Personally I feel expert roulette should be for people on limited time, and should only have to do it 2-3 times a week.

5 times a week to cap tomes, and get a handful of other tomes in way over the top, especially when only 2-3 dungeons compile the list for the roulette.

Not only is this repetitive, but also kills "old" content. Again..

Imagine, if every single dungeon in the entire game gave half the tome reward as the two "expert roulette" dungeons.

Sastasha level 15 dungeon gave 50 Poetics, 40 Lore, 25 Scipture
Sohm Al Hard level 60 gave 100 Poetics, 80 Lore, 50 Scripture


Imagine how "undead" all the "old" content would be.

---

Yopshi did mention that in fan fare and goal is to speed things up by making dungeons range between 15-20 minutes. You have weekly tails book now that gives tomes and POD if you want less than 15 min and do kianna weapons. Sounds tome you play on occasion. If you don't have enough time on your hands I can understand your situation. I work, go to school, have a relationship, and make time for my self. Each gamer has their own way and on a bad day I play maybe 2hours tops. It's all about how you spend your time. Hopefully you have a good FC or friends to help. I usually solo being it makes it a bit more challenging to me. SE has done a great job making this game friendly for all types, unfortunately it's not for everyone. Give it a chance by doing at least min the main story line. It's easy , fun, and if you have expansion you can get min. a level 60 just by doing main story and quest if you don't want to grind. Old content maybe slowing down, it's getting nerfed, Zodiac relics for example, I raids as well maybe a bit slower but now are do able with right group from an FC. To be fair it's way easier than it was before. An example is people asking to Nerf the Zodiac wep. quest line. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...08#post4027808 it's been nerfed sooo much it and people still complain. But hey no disrespect everyone has their own play style and progress. But in this case I blame the player not the product.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Why are the people responding to this thread completely against this idea?

---

actually im not against it at all, but i don't think it's needed and i wouldn't care if it came to be :)

we're all just telling you that capping scriptures isn't going to require a schedule or a routine - you can just do it casually.

for example... say for tonight/today/afternoon do aquapolis with friends who happen to be online at the same time, feeling like helping a newbie? queue mentor roulette, feel like killing a primal? trial roulette, after duty you spawn back in azys lla (or wherever) and just then and there you stumble upon hunt shouts freshly discovered so you head over there and ask for party invite all of these are just examples and they all reward tomestones. the only routine from that is thinking what you should be doing for that day/night

I think the point we're trying to make, and you're failing to listen, is that it's raining scripture and you're asking for a hurricane.

Point still stands. Endgame currency is for people who do content that require endgame gear. If you only want to do Sastasha and Dusk Vigil, you don't need lvl 60 gear. Lvl 60 content throws tons of endgame currency at you. Can't believe you are actually asking to get the highest gear in the game from the lowest content available and do not see what is wrong with that...

To conclude...

I was trying to play "catch up" for my main, so that i could get back into doing extreme primals pre 4.0 possibly.

But the main drive I have to play the game is to get the 3.0 relics on the 3.0 jobs. As my final goal for this game is to have all 99's and all relics respective to their expansions release.

Its quite difficult to do both of those at once, even with the extra free time someone like me has. (I only have to work 25 hours a week at most.)

but...

There are things that deter me from resubscribing, and I have noted those in my other posts and threads.

Atoli gave me yet another reason to not re-subscribe. So thank you.



A genuine thanks to anyone trying to offer tips who were being genuine, and at least trying to comprehend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

The reason being, is when "new" content is added "old" content suffers a hit to rewards, yet do not reflect amount of time completed in relation to tomes rewarded, which in turns to said content's "death."

---

But the level 60 dungeons in the roulette keep the exact same rewards. New dungeons cone out with higher rewards. Expert keeps the sane rewards. Nothing is being taken away and if anything, when new content comes out its easier than ever to cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

the exact same rewards.

---

Youre off topic, and while you make a point, its a tiny one in respect to the topic.

Sure since 2.0 back when expert roulette didnt even exist, the cap was like 350, 375 or 400 or whatever, and we were running Amdapor Keep or Wanderer's palace over and over to cap each week, its gotten a good amount better, its still not at a point that makes sense.

Especially because not only do tomes no longer give you max level gear, not only do you have to do either raid to get max level gear (24 man or 8 man raids only) but there are more jobs, and more things to do now.

This means, we are spending only a tiny bit less time doing the same things we've been doing since day one for the "exact same rewards" as you put it, which is still restricting us from doing content that was "dead on arrival."

I'm not saying the tome system is the cause of this content being dead, i'm saying for me its a big contributor. As well as a killer for the entire game for a lot of people.

See:
This thread


So, I ask you now, why is this such a bad idea?

(Honestly Square-Enix is extremely unlikely to read this, which is why i'm not upset if they do or dont anyway cause i'm not even subscribed right now. I got 14 days free, but i'd like to think I will come back to a better game when I do decide to come back. Most likely which will be in small spurts between each expansion. (pending its improvement, dependent on how long i stay each time (not patch, each expansion) as I have been.)

The game is fun, and all of that jazz, but if you play regularly and cant see that people have left the game in droves, nor willing to entertain simple ideas that could enhance the gameplay, i dont know what else to say. I pretty much have beaten this do death by now.

I am just a bit disappointed 14 days was a long as I could bear to stay this time. The breaks are getting longer, and the time online is getting shorter.

I run potd for tomes. if not for it, I would unsub.

I only have a limited time every week to play the game and mostly play on the weekends and I cap my scripture every week. Getting tombs is easy enough and what you're proposing would only cause ppl to cap their weekly scripture tombs in just a few hrs if that.

I understand it being frustrating that older content dies and becomes hard to do due to a lack of people. Something does need to get done to cause ppl to want to do the old content again, wonderous tails is a start but more is needed.

I would say to help liven up the older content would be to either put in a quest line where you can upgrade selected old gear like raid gear or artifact gear to a more current ilvl. Another idea would be to add bonus stats to older gear that would increase specific skills and abilities if that piece of gear is equipped when you equip it, basically bring in the old gear swap system us FF XI players are used to and seems a lot of us do miss.

And what sense does it make if the old content gives new content rewards? Whats next, 250+ Gear in WoD? I honestly see no reason to give out new stuff in old content and its not that old content doesn't get played anymore.

For capping the tomes you don't have to go in expert a single time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

And what sense does it make if the old content gives new content rewards?

---

Leveling roulette gives 5 scripture. Should they take it out then?

Leveling in a synced party in sastasha level 15 dungeon gives a level 51 player experience points. Should they take it out then?



The "sense" is to enhance gameplay, by allowing you to accomplish more than 1 task at a time. Especially one so boring and repetitive as to capping tomes.

Tomes are literally the same as experience points after you are done leveling. Literally the exact same thing. There is even a thing called a "item level" that you "level up" once you hit the temporary "max level."

(this is actually funny to me, because people were *so* against the leveling fatigue in 1.0, but here backing up the tome weekly cap.

Personally I would like the opposite. I'd like to be restricted to how much I can level, but unrestricted in how many classes I can gear up.
Better yet, 1.19 version of neither being restricted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

Whats next, 250+ Gear in WoD? I honestly see no reason to give out new stuff in old content

---

This is completely different, although I wouldnt be against it. Because honestly, if you get a new player who is less experienced, would you rather them be less experience and undergeared, or just less experienced? Experience only comes with time, but tomes could come from everything!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

and its not that old content doesn't get played anymore.

---

Try not playing during peak times, or telling all the people who cant find parties or friends this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

For capping the tomes you don't have to go in expert a single time.

---

to my understanding, the fastest quickest way to cap tomes is a daily expert roulette.

If i'm wrong please correct me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmalonStar

[...]and what you're proposing would only cause ppl to cap their weekly scripture tombs in just a few hrs if that.

---

If you wanted, you can currently speedrun an expert dungeon 9 times in a row for 50 tomes each and cap in around 3 hours. It's already quite possible to cap in just a few hours - thus, the only thing the OPs suggestion would change is to create more diversity in that process.

I call big whoop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

If you wanted, you can currently speedrun an expert dungeon 9 times in a row for 50 tomes each and cap in around 3 hours. It's already quite possible to cap in just a few hours - thus, the only thing the OPs suggestion would change is to create more diversity in that process.

I call big whoop.

---

Hey you get it!

You dont agree maybe, but you get it!

Thanks, even if someone doesnt agree, I can at least appreciate not having to re-explain it over and over and over to everyone. Its like doing expert roulette! LOL.

(by the way, I liked the persons quote you quoted because they too understood. Dont agree, but understood.

The best responses are ones that understand that expert roulette is repetitive, and offered a suggestion to Squre-Enix to add variety, or offered me a suggestion to capping tomes in another way. You didnt offer either, but at least you got it.

To cap your tomes you would have to go 4-5 times expert, yes but only if you get the expert bonus, what means it takes 4-5 days. If you do the other stuff like 24 man raid, alex normal, pvp and maybe some primal farm for mounts and/or weapons you cap them also without entering expert a single time, depending on the time you play of course. What means that you don't have to do the whole 2 dungeon all the time shit and these 2 dungeons are not getting boring that fast.

And no the tomes can stay in the leveling roulette since it is to keep players in low level dungeons that lowis get faster ques. There is no reason to put them into the dungeons themselfs.

What use would it have if someone gets the lategame gear in a lower dungeon? They couldn't wear it and have enough ways to get gear when they reach 60 anyway.

If you are not playing between 11 am and 12 am, you will probably not get entry anyway. Between these hours you'll get usualy entry for almost everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

The best responses are ones that understand that expert roulette is repetitive

---

It's not that no one else considers expert roulette repetitive.
It's just that we keep telling you that SE already added so much variety in how you can obtain tomestones that there is no need to do expert roulette at all anymore if you don't like it.
Pretty much any lvl 60 content gives you tomestones, both lore and scripture, or at least a lot of lore.

What is not okay about your suggestion is that you want endgame currency for not doing endgame content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

If you wanted, you can currently speedrun an expert dungeon 9 times in a row for 50 tomes each and cap in around 3 hours. It's already quite possible to cap in just a few hours - thus, the only thing the OPs suggestion would change is to create more diversity in that process.

---

Yea I do know it is already quite possible to cap scrips in a few hrs.

As for the gear thing I'm not saying to make new gear that drops from old content. What I'm saying is take a drop from say WoD an ilvl 120 piece and have a quest where you need that piece of gear and X number of this item and X number of that item and so on to upgrade it to say a lv 60 ilvl 230 piece with upgraded stats.

Add abilities to old gear like 'boosts Wanderers Minet effect by X' then you just make a macro to swap that piece of gear in when you use WM on brd and then swap it back to the higher lv piece hence gear swapping. Also doing things like this would liven up older content.

I have another char on another data center to play with friends there that I have a similar issue with, now I haven't played that char in a while due to having a limited time to play. I don't have expert roulette on that char anymore and have about 6-7dungeons to unlock to get it, not to mention raising my ilvl high enough to do it. I also don't have my lv 60 roulette anymore and need like 4-5 dungeons to get that again. So the number of tombs I can get right now is limited not having the daily bonus from those 2 roulettes.

The lv 60 and even the lv 50 roulettes shôuld be unlock able after unlocking 2-3 dungeons for those roulettes.

It's like talking to a brick wall.
You don't need to touch a roulette ever, i capped through farming Zurvan alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

It's like talking to a brick wall.
You don't need to touch a roulette ever, i capped through farming Zurvan alone.

---

The OP ran and necro'd an almost year old thread in General Discussion to try and make his argument in. I don't think anyone is going to be able to change his (or those that agree with him) mind on the topic regardless of the things presented to him/them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Youre off topic, and while you make a point, its a tiny one in respect to the topic.

Sure since 2.0 back when expert roulette didnt even exist, the cap was like 350, 375 or 400 or whatever, and we were running Amdapor Keep or Wanderer's palace over and over to cap each week, its gotten a good amount better, its still not at a point that makes sense.

---

No, this topic is complaining about the roulette. The roulette has a reward that doesn't change, however it does have dungeons that are updated as new content rolls in, which was complained about. These new dungeons also offer tomestones, at an increasing amount. So every new content update we get an easier time reaching the tomestone cap than harder. You're earning more and more tomestones each time with new content than you were before, at least until they roll out a new type of tomestone.

As I've said, I don't even do expert roulette anymore. I haven't the need for it, I have capped tomestones every week. But here you are complaining that there's lots to do (gearing up more jobs) and only one way to feasibly do it (expert roulette) while shooting down alternative ideas of earning tomestones, and even outright complaining that you have other fun content to do (raiding) to get better gear. If you don't want tomestone gear, don't get it. If you want it, find a better way of earning it if monotonously running expert roulette isn't for you. Open your mind to the vast offers this game has for you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDaemon

The OP ran and necro'd an almost year old thread in General Discussion to try and make his argument in.

---

Regardless of things and an old thread being necro'd it is true there are other ways to cap the weekly tombs. The thing is that ppl that have taken a break from the game and have come back to playing it things will have changed and they are not going to know how to go about things, that is one reason why they introduced the returners status for the NN.

The point I'm getting at here is that there are players that are new to the game or are returning after a long absence that need to get gear. For a new player this is going to be harder than a returning player depending on how long they had been gone. New players and returning players would be looking at a wall of dungeons and msq's to get the lv 60 and expert roulettes unlocked to get those bonus tombs.

I don't mind capping tomes although I think the 450 cap is stupid. The cap should be 825 so you can purchase one piece of any gear. Waiting a whole month to get legs and body is stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Regardless of things and an old thread being necro'd it is true there are other ways to cap the weekly tombs. The thing is that ppl that have taken a break from the game and have come back to playing it things will have changed and they are not going to know how to go about things, that is one reason why they introduced the returners status for the NN.

The point I'm getting at here is that there are players that are new to the game or are returning after a long absence that need to get gear. For a new player this is going to be harder than a returning player depending on how long they had been gone. New players and returning players would be looking at a wall of dungeons and msq's to get the lv 60 and expert roulettes unlocked to get those bonus tombs.

---

I wasn't agree with the OP in the slightest....

The game throws so many tome stones at you for just playing the game you don't really have to do much for them at all. I find I am capped on the first or second day of the week without even trying to cap them. Frontlines for Garo, doing primal fights for birds ect gets you capped so fast.