Monk- lets add the best synergy with DK (Dragon Kick change)

Good day

Different classes in the game can raise the DPS of each other and almost always players built a raid party according to these synergies. DRagoon-> Bard or Mech, Bard-> any magic dd, Ninja-> Slash Res. for tanks OR WAr-> Slash Res for Ninja and another tank

But what about Monk? Monk can have only one such synergy- with another Monk. One Monk uses Dragon Kick and another uses Bootshine.

But it is possible to make one more synergy with Dark Knight. How? Dragon Kick has 2 bonuses- Lowering Blunt Res AND Lowering INT of the target by 10%. But lowering INT doesnt stack with the skill of the Dark Knight- Delirium, which lower target's INT also by 10%. It means, that in a party with DK, Monk's Dragon Kick half useless

So, we just need to remove the Lowering Blunt Res. bonus to another skill. It means, that in a party with DK Monk will NO LONGER NEED to use DRagon Kick, because DK will use DElirium, and Monk will be able to use Bootshine

Do you like the idea?

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Good day


So, we just need to remove the Lowering Blunt Res. bonus to another skill. It means, that in a party with DK Monk will NO LONGER NEED to use DRagon Kick, because DK will use DElirium, and Monk will be able to use Bootshine

Do you like the idea?

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I actually was toying with the idea of making PLD half Blunt half Slashing.
Like make shield Bash and the extra Sword Oath attack (could have a shield bash animation) also blunt. This way, there is actually a viable synergy between PLD and MNK without rekting the overall balance too badly. Hell, even make Shield Bash give a 15 sec blunt down is also viable.

I wonder if Mantra was not cross-classable if Monk usefulness would raise.

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Originally Posted by Crocel

I wonder if Mantra was not cross-classable if Monk usefulness would raise.

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I wish they would just allow Mantra to spread the current fist / stance effect to the raid. Adjust the CD as needed and/or remove the healing benefit.

Also make Fist of Wind not useless. <.<

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Originally Posted by AldricBranchais

I wish they would just allow Mantra to spread the current fist / stance effect to the raid. Adjust the CD as needed and/or remove the healing benefit.

Also make Fist of Wind not useless. <.<

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What? Fist of Wind is amazing! ...in town.

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Originally Posted by AldricBranchais

I wish they would just allow Mantra to spread the current fist / stance effect to the raid. Adjust the CD as needed and/or remove the healing benefit.

Also make Fist of Wind not useless. <.<

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Actually if fist of wind gives 10% attackspeed or something that would actually be interesting. And i agree their traited mantra should give a party wide buff based on the fist being used

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Originally Posted by Crocel

I wonder if Mantra was not cross-classable if Monk usefulness would raise.

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It's so weird how Monk's only real utility is crossclassable.
Wonder what SE is thinking sometimes. That's like making Battle Litany crossclassable.

They should've just made Machinist do blunt damage that would've fixed alot of issues with this expansion.
But no apparently machinsts use muskets with sniper bullets.
http://www.stiletto.uk.com/data/50mm.jpg
Because of reasons....

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Originally Posted by Atreides

They should've just made Machinist do blunt damage that would've fixed alot of issues with this expansion.
But no apparently machinsts use muskets with sniper bullets.
http://www.stiletto.uk.com/data/50mm.jpg
Because of reasons....

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I thought about that too. Why we dont have any class with the blunt attacks with Monk?..

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Originally Posted by Xyno

I thought about that too. Why we dont have any class with the blunt attacks with Monk?..

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I was thinking we'd get a blunt DPS for 4.0, but it almost seems like we're not even getting one then... RDM is definitely not blunt damage and Samurai is obviously not blunt.
Another expansion without any synergy....Should be fun.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I was thinking we'd get a blunt DPS for 4.0, but it almost seems like we're not even getting one then... RDM is definitely not blunt damage and Samurai is obviously not blunt.
Another expansion without any synergy....Should be fun.

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You know, when the teaser video of Stormblood appeared and the rumors about the Dancer too, I thought ""yay!! it will be a "blunt" hero, my Monk will get a good synergy", but we dont get a Dancer I think and Im sad(

Given that almost every weapon type actually uses a mixture of blunt, slashing, and piercing, I don't think there was ever an intention of realism — they simply wanted arbitrary, categorical synergies that might slightly adjust gameplay based on composition. I mean, have you seen the blades on those Monk patas? How is that not piercing during a True Strike? How is Riot Blade not? Heck, Chaos Thrust was originally considered 2 hits slashing, 1 hit piercing in 1.x, when the strikes were separately calculated.

Give pld mace, give warrior hammer, problem solve

So, Red mage will have piercing and magic attacks- one more class for synergy for DRagoon and Bard. Samurai- slashing, one more for Ninja. That is all. Second addon- NO CLASS with blunt attack

i like the idea of mantra spreading your current stance effect to nearby party members, that would make monk much more sought after. however, that would make them even more OP in pvp unless mantra wouldn't buff party members in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Llus

i like the idea of mantra spreading your current stance effect to nearby party members, that would make monk much more sought after. however, that would make them even more OP in pvp unless mantra wouldn't buff party members in pvp.

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Yes, maybe the idea is good, but does it mean, that 15% heal bonus will be removed? Anyway, CD of Mantra must be lowered till 1 min, because 5% bonus damage every 2 mins- it is a joke, you know) It is nothing. Also, such effect will be a weak copy of the TRick attack and it is not good and SE will not make such a copy. So, if Mantra must get another DPS effect, it must differ

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Yes, maybe the idea is good, but does it mean, that 15% heal bonus will be removed? Anyway, CD of Mantra must be lowered till 1 min, because 5% bonus damage every 2 mins- it is a joke, you know) It is nothing. Also, such effect will be a weak copy of the TRick attack and it is not good and SE will not make such a copy. So, if Mantra must get another DPS effect, it must differ

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No, they shouldn't remove the 15% heal bonus, that would just cripple monk for raids even further. As for stances, there's also 10% damage reduction on FoE - I can see that being very useful during periods of high raid-wide damage. As for the 5% damage up buff on FoF vs trick attack vuln up; yea that would still lend more favor to ninja for damage up. I do think if they modified FoW to give a boost to skill speed, that would be awesome; but I think it would make MNK even more OP from a personal DPS (and PvP) POV since GL3 already gives them a 30% boost to global CD and 15% to auto-attack.

Change the action of forbidden chakra or tornado kick or mantra to spend all stacks of GL to give those bonuses to everyone else +30% damage up, +30% faster GCD, +15% faster auto attack - have the duration the same as duration of GL (14s) - can't build GL for duration of the effect and CD for the action should be around 120-180s.

I think, that we have found the CORE- the GS effect must spread to the party by Mantra. Monk will lose all stack of GS

So let's just hope they get rid of the "Piercing", "Blunt", "Slash" garbage and just give melees a "Physical" debuff... They did say there will be a battle system overhaul.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

Give pld mace, give warrior hammer, problem solve

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The funny thing is an axe is not even a cutting weapon it is a splitting/separating and bludgeoning weapon which is different in function lol. If you have ever used an axe before you would know what I am talking about lol. An axe is just a sharpened wedge and hammer combined into one tool. So with that being said, the fact that war has a slashing resist down move is just the dumbest thing lol. It makes no sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

So let's just hope they get rid of the "Piercing", "Blunt", "Slash" garbage and just give melees a "Physical" debuff... They did say there will be a battle system overhaul.

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Or make them each a raid-benefiting debuff, each in a different way, that support all weapon types, but allow us to still have some eventual inherent differences between said types, rather than purely nominal distinctions.

Ever try taking dragon kick out of your rotation? It's hard. I try to do it if there's another monk in the party and DK is already up. Can't do it. I press DK every time. Just the habit of my rotation. If something like this got implemented, I would have to have my keyboard give me an electrical shock every time I pressed dragon kick.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Ever try taking dragon kick out of your rotation? It's hard. I try to do it if there's another monk in the party and DK is already up. Can't do it. I press DK every time. Just the habit of my rotation. If something like this got implemented, I would have to have my keyboard give me an electrical shock every time I pressed dragon kick.

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I play by Monk since 3rd close beta, so, I can change my rotation easily and have no problems with changing DK on Bootshine. Also, I have cleared 9-12 Savage with another Monk in a party, he used DK, I- Bootshine)

Seconding the fact that mch being blunt would have made more sense and what i hoped for pre 3.0 i main monk and progged through creator on it and then when my drg was geared swapped over to that for speedkills. Our comp is war drk nin mnk mch sch ast smn. It was a huge difference in raid dps when i swapped to drg.

My problem wasnt changing to drg since i like to play the job and it benefitted the group for speedkills. But the worst part by far is just seeing how shit monk is compared to drg in an optimal comp. You can check my fflogs im generally around 98-99% on mnk and 94-95% on drg. The kill times from having drg over a monk are stupidly faster and bring such a higher contribution than monk.

Monk's main trait is usually having high crit rate so i've got no idea why giving a aoe crit buff to drg made any sense on top of the fact that disembowel buffs a mch by about 300dps when played well. Drg is only about 50-100 dps behind monk on a dummy parse (and drg got shit on with gear this patch without relic lol) AoE crit buff on mnk would have made drg and monk more equal in terms of raid utility and at least closed the gap between them both.


Tldr. Monk's lack of utility (lol mantra), lack of enmity control and personal dps doesnt the utility of the other melee and needs fixing in 4.0.

In 4.0 I think mnk needs:
Chi blast: ranged attack to match piercing talon and throwing daggers, and no, shoulder tackle is not good enough.
Formless strikes: allows the user to exploit all physical resistances, long CD, 10 second duration. Allowing monk to benefit from dragoon, ninja and warrior's resistance reductions for a short time increasing its synergy with other physical dps somewhat.
Fists of wind: add decreases enmity, making it a stance monks can use when they are getting too close to the tank in enmity for some much needed enmity control.
Mantra: add increases max hp of the entire party making it combo with divine veil, stoneskin, adloquium and nocturnal sect for even larger shielding.

This gives monk a little more synergy, allows it to pull mobs rather than taking on entire packs (palace of the dead) and makes fists of wind more viable as a stance.

Monk right now is the child that doesn't play well with others and doesn't want to share its toys, which makes it hard to find it a place in the group. While at the same time being the job that needs the group the most, a dps that relies heavily on positionals. It needs adjustment badly.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

In 4.0 I think mnk needs:
Chi blast: ranged attack to match piercing talon and throwing daggers, and no, shoulder tackle is not good enough.
Formless strikes: allows the user to exploit all physical resistances, long CD, 10 second duration. Allowing monk to benefit from dragoon, ninja and warrior's resistance reductions for a short time increasing its synergy with other physical dps somewhat.
Fists of wind: add decreases enmity, making it a stance monks can use when they are getting too close to the tank in enmity for some much needed enmity control.
Mantra: add increases max hp of the entire party making it combo with divine veil, stoneskin, adloquium and nocturnal sect for even larger shielding.

This gives monk a little more synergy, allows it to pull mobs rather than taking on entire packs (palace of the dead) and makes fists of wind more viable as a stance.

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Formless Strikes wouldn't increase it's party synergy nor make it more desirable at all. What you described is just a flat damage buff for monk. And that fists of wind change would need to be a cool down instead of a stance, otherwise it wouldn't see use by anyone other than the players that don't care about their damage. The main reason monk is excluded is because of the piercing debuff. So to fix the issue in 4.0 they'd either need to remove the piercing debuff or give physical ranged jobs the option to apply it themselves with little to no cost to damage. This is the only change that I can see making a real difference. The only other option is completely overhaul how jobs handle resistances

Dragon Kick -> reduces blunt and piercing damage by 10%. Overrides Disembowled.

Am I doing it right?

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

Dragon Kick -> INCREASING blunt and piercing damage by 10%. Overrides Disembowled.

Am I doing it right?

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I have corrected you

But...but...books do blunt damage ! Staves do blunt damage !
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Ok...I'm out :p

Sorry but I have an off topic question and this thread seems like it's getting decent traffic! ;P
As a MNK, should I be levellin'g my marauder for Mercy Stroke? I'm almost 60 and seemed to have done ok without it but it seems like a really great cross-skill to have. Do people even use it anymore, especially for endgame stuff? I know there are a variety of solid MNK skills so I'm wondering where Mercy Stroke falls in terms of priority.

Any info is appreciated!

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But...but...books do blunt damage ! Staves do blunt damage !
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Ok...I'm out :p

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Fracture bashes. Half the Lancer abilities include some form of slash. Some half of all fist weapons have sharp blades. How would you describe an unsharpened weapon that nonetheless penetrates into enemy armor before prying it open?

...Why do we categorize entire weapons, again?

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Originally Posted by JinRoSul

Sorry but I have an off topic question and this thread seems like it's getting decent traffic! ;P
As a MNK, should I be levellin'g my marauder for Mercy Stroke? I'm almost 60 and seemed to have done ok without it but it seems like a really great cross-skill to have. Do people even use it anymore, especially for endgame stuff? I know there are a variety of solid MNK skills so I'm wondering where Mercy Stroke falls in terms of priority.

Any info is appreciated!

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You're competing with 1 + n (engaged player count) of attackers in order to get that last blow with a mere 200 pre-modified potency. It's not exactly a reliable heal, and adds very little damage over time (133 ppm). Nonetheless it's one of your better cross-classes, as defensive options (Foresight, Keen Flurry) tend to have even less reliability and/or effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by JinRoSul

Sorry but I have an off topic question and this thread seems like it's getting decent traffic! ;P
As a MNK, should I be levellin'g my marauder for Mercy Stroke? I'm almost 60 and seemed to have done ok without it but it seems like a really great cross-skill to have. Do people even use it anymore, especially for endgame stuff? I know there are a variety of solid MNK skills so I'm wondering where Mercy Stroke falls in terms of priority.

Any info is appreciated!

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Additional DPS is always good, so, take this skill. It costs 0 TP and it is not GCD

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Originally Posted by JinRoSul

Sorry but I have an off topic question and this thread seems like it's getting decent traffic! ;P
As a MNK, should I be levellin'g my marauder for Mercy Stroke? I'm almost 60 and seemed to have done ok without it but it seems like a really great cross-skill to have. Do people even use it anymore, especially for endgame stuff? I know there are a variety of solid MNK skills so I'm wondering where Mercy Stroke falls in terms of priority.

Any info is appreciated!

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If you've got B4B and invigorate everything else you take is flexible, that said Mercy Stroke is free damage for no TP cost so it's good in that regard.

Just give monk slashing/blunt or piercing depending on weapon :P

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Just give monk slashing/blunt and piercing depending on weapon :P

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Seriously, you can't tell me some of those claw weapons are blunt. Neither can you tell me most of the halberds are piercing.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Seriously, you can't tell me some of those claw weapons are blunt. Neither can you tell me most of the halberds are piercing.

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This is why I hate the whole 1 weapon type tied to a class. They should of all been given a job crystal from the start and connected it to that or had different job crystals unlocking different skills/traits. Even some of the Axes for War look dodgy and could call them blunt ( Anima weapon that toothpick isn't slashing anyone lmao).

So make DK lower mob physical resistance 10% rather than mob blunt resistance.

FoF/FoW/FoE - Change these to be similar to BRD's Ballads in that they increase group damage/movement speed/resistances while up
Forbidden Chakra - Should remove positional requirements after its usage for X seconds.
Mantra - Increase Fist bonus for group by X%

Some new skills for 4.0 I'd like to see.
Chi Blast - A ranged ability like DRG and NIN have
Disarm - A physical damage debuff
Deflect - Enmity reducer

Anything else would be a bonus
Just my thoughts