Random healers in shatter, how often does this happen?

I seen it like once a while ago? when I was still working on the frontline mount, was not getting help because of this but it seems to be happening more and more often to my friend. First off she hates playing double whm and enters asdps, so when she sees a single whm, she gets very reluctant to change due to the issues with double WHM in PvP. She only does it when it can effect a win or loss and change mid match or so.

There been a few times we seen healers, most often whm in particular (I wonder why this is) who only cast dps spells on the ice as in that is ALL they do. My friend seen matches here and there and was the only one losing hp in the party while the whm cast dps spells on the ice. Depending if it was me or her at the time, we both explain to .. what i am guessing new players, that you really do no damage and we do more damage collectively if you keep dps healed.

Well today she had a single whm who seemed not around and she was dying way more often then normal. At one point she checked the map for the healer during downtime when everyone but one tank is supposed to be at the A. the healer was sitting at camp. So she made a remark along the lines of "So our only healer is sitting at base??????" after that she got no reply but the healer moved. She thought that would be enough to fix the issue since the reason of pointing that out in the first place was due to lack of healing. A big ice pops and everyone goes to it. While she was the only one hurting, the healer cast dps spells on the ice only. she died and remarked you are supposed to be healing, not casting dps spells on the ice.

Next big ice pops, the final, again that healer was casting dps spells, and she died. Just before the game over she said "We lost because you would not heal, healers need to heal here" then someone else said "quit your whining"

By chance she looked both names up on loadstone so see something, sure enough same server, same GC, she concluded they queued together.

So once again, just like PvE the same type of toxicity can happen such as this, though action more then words. (Also the healer never said anything the whole match, along getting silence when asking people if someone can change to a healer at the 2 min start time thing) If the game continued, there most likely been more headed words exchanged since "quit whining" was said as the score board went up. Time and time again I am shown it is not the experience people that are toxic, but the less experience and expect you deal with it. I know this paragraph is a bit off my main point and topic, but I feel the need to repeat myself since the chat banning only shows SE is not getting it.

Anyways do people see this often thanks to the event? people just half passing because they do not care? You ever see DPS only healers?

Great rewording example of the same complaint over and over. You want heals go heals. The healer wants to dps they should have just went dps and not healed. But common told to be quiet is complaining about heals. If you aren't healing its a be quiet situation, or vote kick.

Luckily the person in this example used vote kick when healer had differing play style. They then proceeded to heal the party and did not complain or post on the forums "wahh I need chat because everything else is bad too."

I was not in this game. But enough people tell people to not whine about heals.

Sounds like a case of someone completely new to PVP trying to grasp the idea of running around like a chicken in Frontline, while trying to keep people alive. Be more patient, if you see the one person solo-healing your party is having trouble, change to healer too.

Also, the reason for the DPS spells can be that everyone says "focus the ice" when a big one appears, so they did it too. Or maybe just a PVE thing that carried over since they were new to PVP.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Great rewording example of the same complaint over and over. You want heals go heals. The healer wants to dps they should have just went dps and not healed. But common told to be quiet is complaining about heals. If you aren't healing its a be quiet situation, or vote kick.

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"Heal yourself" is not a solution.

The person shouldn't be PvPing. If you are a healer, you need to be in the FRONTLINES healing your team mates. Especially if you are the only one on your team. Not sitting around at the base doing nothing, watching your team die.

I see so often in Shatter. Healers either sitting at base or running around gathering small crystals while everyone is getting killed.


Now... If I had a healer to help my team myself, I would go heal too. Then try to kick the other healer if they continue to camp.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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Yes it happens. Yes some people are morons. And yes I'd vote kick.

welcome to frontlines xD

I can't tell you how many times I feel I'm not getting heals at all in frontlines then I look at the scoreboard at the end and our healer(s) only has like 50k hp or less~ recovered total meanwhile the other healers are doing something like 300k+ up. At the current moment you can either, premade with healer(s), be the healer, play feast instead(where healers actually heal), or be forced to play in a way where you are not expecting to be healed at all even if the healer is 10y away. If you want some PvP and not PvP in your PvE I'd recommend just playing feast.

Let me touch upon some important facts. (I agree with your friend that the healers should heal primarily)

Healers should always prioritize keeping themselves and their party alive. It's their main function. You do no damage to ice or other players if you're dead.
Healers cannot use Cleric Stance in any PvP mode. While this does not mean they can't dps or cc enemies (they definitely should cc enemies), the mp isn't being used all that effectively if attacking.
A change was made some time ago so that Icebound Tomeliths have 50% increased Magic Resistance. So even Casters deal less damage to ice.
If the party has an ice uncontested (only your team is attacking it), take that time to shield/heal, THEN dps if need be.

I don't even bother putting DPS on the ice anymore. If nobody's getting hit I just Stoneskin myself, my party, or other alliance members instead. Screw around with my card draws, or just putter around and regain MP. There's pretty much no viable reason to attack ice as a healer given a.) no Cleric Stance, and b.) reduced magic damage on ice anyway.

Weirdly enough though, in a freelance match I was in there was this Adders WHM who stood around DPSing ice near my team and just got obliterated. Even as we were pelting them with damage, they were casting Aero II on the ice over and over again. I almost reported it as a bot, it was so weird.

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Originally Posted by sykez

I can't tell you how many times I feel I'm not getting heals at all in frontlines then I look at the scoreboard at the end and our healer(s) only has like 50k hp or less~

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To be fair, that number is complete BS. Spamming medica 2 the entire match will net you over 2m heals (counts overheals, disregards shields and other forms of mitigation). The scoreboard doesnt mean much past a certain point and that's especially true with healers

50k is absurd, but I hope thats hyperbole

it's an insanely bad amount of healing but it's totally in the realm of believability. i wouldn't know but frontlines healing, especially in our new era of 72-man pops, is probably insanely hard, depending on how many melee dps/tanks you have in your party.

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Originally Posted by DWARF_INTENSIFIES

it's an insanely bad amount of healing but it's totally in the realm of believability. i wouldn't know but frontlines healing, especially in our new era of 72-man pops, is probably insanely hard, depending on how many melee dps/tanks you have in your party.

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If there is 2 average per party, like 3 in one, 1 in the other, if they cross heal everything will be fine, but it makes me uneasy because people still tunnel vision and i both had help and had none being that solo healer in one party. If there is less then 2, like every pt has 1 healer, have a fit till people change, that is auto loss. How hard it is just depends what goes on, i even solo heal in 8 pt during feast, it just risky. If people rush you, sleep you, etc as a solo healer, you are not going to have a fun time, if the other team is clueless with the other side having a solo healer, it is likely it wouldn't matter. Of course not having chat in feast might of helped me a few times, kinda like that one time we won easy because 3 people attacked me without coordination, giving my team easy kills. The smallest amount of healers that I won with was 5, 4 or less tends to have very low scores compared to the other 2 teams.

One time a salty war and his buddy was chewing me out for asking them to change because we had 4 wars and 1 healer. Even after pointing out most of our party is dying because of it, one war said "I have not died yet and you need to learn pvp" they tried to kick me twice and they ended up getting a report for being rude and the kick abuse attempt. Lights are so important you will rather lose a match while being rude and trying to kick your solo healer? Why is light gain allowed in frontline? clearly that makes players more toxic then letting have chat in feast.

If you equip the field commander set and casting accessories you can actually do solid damage at the cost of a load of secondary stats and healing potency. It can be fun to play as a "support" though as long as you have people doing the bulk of the healing.

That said, get used to not having a proper "group" in pvp. You will get matches with all tanks or all dps who stubbornly won't switch. It's just part of the game and a side effect of having no party comp requirement for queueing. Just get through it and hope for better luck next time.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

If you equip the field commander set and casting accessories you can actually do solid damage at the cost of a load of secondary stats and healing potency. It can be fun to play as a "support" though as long as you have people doing the bulk of the healing.

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This. I wouldn't advocate kicking the whm unless they were doing -nothing-. Would you have kicked them if they were on a DPS class (thus not healing...?) What if WHM was their only class, and they were trying to go for kill titles. WHM in the commander set can do really good damage if used right, even outdamaging the rest of the team. Would you kick a tank if they were not using tank LB/stunning? Would you kick a DPS if you saw them doing no damag-- oh, wait, this one is not allowed because people would get upset.

If your healer is not healing to your desires, change to healer or ask someone else to heal in addition to it.

uhhh... two white mages are better than one white mage and no other healer... seems like your friend is making excuses.

two sacred prisms, 1 after the other.... 100% uptime on DS Medica II.... the list goes on...

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

One time a salty war and his buddy was chewing me out for asking them to change because we had 4 wars and 1 healer. Even after pointing out most of our party is dying because of it, one war said "I have not died yet and you need to learn pvp" they tried to kick me twice and they ended up getting a report for being rude and the kick abuse attempt. Lights are so important you will rather lose a match while being rude and trying to kick your solo healer? Why is light gain allowed in frontline? clearly that makes players more toxic then letting have chat in feast.

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How much PvP do you actually have 4 warriors are fine. They have multiple heals, aoe heals, damage mitigation skills, and very decent burst. Were the warriors bad maybe. But warriors don't have to change if they have 8 of them. You can get rolled by an all war team. Does it take more skill, yes. But this myth ahh to many tanks please change.

They should not have been rude to you. They should have decided difference of play style and kicked you to the curb. Or you could have done the same. It is clearly allowed and covers a wide range. Good thing VOTE KICK is a viable option, unlike the dumpster fire you keep trying to defend. This coming from someone who says you should have chat and punishment should be severe and last the rest of their days in 14.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

If you equip the field commander set and casting accessories you can actually do solid damage at the cost of a load of secondary stats and healing potency. It can be fun to play as a "support" though as long as you have people doing the bulk of the healing.

That said, get used to not having a proper "group" in pvp. You will get matches with all tanks or all dps who stubbornly won't switch. It's just part of the game and a side effect of having no party comp requirement for queueing. Just get through it and hope for better luck next time.

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How can I get the Field Commander set?

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

How can I get the Field Commander set?

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It is obtained from achieving a certain number of wins in Seal Rock (Seize). To get the entire set, you need 100 wins, which is kind of difficult to acquire now since the playerbase is primarily queuing for Fields of Glory (Shatter).

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

If you equip the field commander set and casting accessories you can actually do solid damage

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No, you can't. Not to anything and especially not to Ice.

I just see both healers afking in one Party, i don't wine again bad healers or something, but when i see both healer stay on mount, not doing any buff, no stoneskin , no healing, no dpsing XD.
happily it don't happen often. it's realy weird to me to get in a game and do nothing.
I don't get why players wine about too much tank also, ok too much tank mean less damage. but have 2 pld and 2 war in a team can be a pain for the enemy.
We have to mention How much dps feed the tank all the day because of the stun lock by pld or bursted by the war ? believe it or not tank is a pain in frontline.
Not easy to kill, but tank make easy kill happen.
Offcourse its right to have some dps for killing, big crystals, but i think you need tanks, 4 tanks in a group happen ? it don't mean you loose.

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

I don't get why players wine about too much tank also, ok too much tank mean less damage. but have 2 pld and 2 war in a team can be a pain for the enemy.
We have to mention How much dps feed the tank all the day because of the stun lock by pld or bursted by the war ? believe it or not tank is a pain in frontline.
Not easy to kill, but tank make easy kill happen.
Offcourse its right to have some dps for killing, big crystals, but i think you need tanks, 4 tanks in a group happen ? it don't mean you loose.

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In general party distribution in 72-mans is weird as all get-out and I wish it would be looked at. Yes, people can job-change at any time, but WHY put 4 tanks and 4 DPS in a party and then 3 healers in another party? Unless all 3 healers actually queue together in the same party, there's no reason one of them couldn't be matched for the tank/DPS party. Whatever the algorithm is for this, it seems lazy as heck.

there no party distribution at all, it would be good to have one.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

I see so often in Shatter. Healers either sitting at base or running around gathering small crystals while everyone is getting killed.

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I have also seen this alot recently and yesterday i had rather hilarious moment when there was enemy WHM and BRD and i was alone against them, that poor bard didnt get single heal nor regen because that WHM was too busy spamming stone III. I bet that BRD cursed that healer to deepest hell as he literally died next to that him >_<

This is what you get when the healer meta in pve is that you're a terrible if you're not dpsing.

As a pug WHM healer in Shatter, ultimately I would remain with my party, but in 95% of the time the party gets scattered to the four winds, so I just end up going where most of the fight is, most often around the central area and those big ice thingies.

And then I mostly use various heal/buff, and cast heavy and sleep spells for most of the time.

As for weird player behaviour, it's not just healers.

For once last day I was in game, in the center close to the entrance of the path that leads to our base and my party members nearby. The game was just a few minutes in. I got stunned and an enemy party rushed to me, I used all my cooldown including attunement and meanwhile my party member just near me did nothing, they were not even fighting, they were just like "oh we don't care " the whole time. Afterward that did not put me in a good mood for healing them (and I was the only healer for the party).
But I'm not like that, so I just forgot it and did my usual.

The very next game after that, I got a bit too isolated on the front while my alliance was retreating, so that is usually not a good thing to do as a healer :p. And then again I got rushed by an enemy group, and again did all I could to survive as long as possible, but this time there was another party from my alliance a little away and they rushed to me and I managed to survive thanks to them.

So really it's all random about the kind of player you end up with regardless of class.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

This is what you get when the healer meta in pve is that you're a terrible if you're not dpsing.

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I dislike the healer DPS meta in PVE as much as the next guy, but even I think this is reaching a bit. Unless you're deliberately being facetious, in which case I apologize for not getting the joke.

I think a lot of what people are seeing is a lack of inter-alliance cross-healing, so to speak. The cases that people are listing, where players are dying left and right and a WHM is just DPSing ice...I'd imagine a good portion of the dying people aren't in their party, and since the general lackadaisical attitude towards alliance content is "I take care of my own party and everyone else can bugger off", players in PVP aren't getting cross-alliance healed like they should be. (I'm always cross-alliance healing unless I'm super tapped out on resources or my own team is being pushed too hard for me to spare a second.)

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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I do cross-alliance healing as much as I can as healer. It's harder however because aoe like healing spell don't work, so you have to use the alliance tab to select them or manually click on them directly if you can manage that in the mess xD

One thing that happens many times, is i'm always saving people left and right, so swiftcast, benediction or tetragrammation are often on cooldown, that means for the rest I have to use regular healing skill without moving once casting, and many players when low HP just simply go out of range before the spell finish and then die. So if you're low HP and want some heal, stop rushing forward away from your healers :p

Tbh all alliance members should count as party member because it sucks that i cant use support skills like Cover, Testudo, Thrill of War etc for them.

I hate it when the party splits off into two, and I heal one group, and I hope that the other healer is healing the other group, but when I look I see them casting dps spells while the party members are dropping like flies :< We lose pts when people die.

A few times I've queued in and been solo heal. I always say pls stay together obv I can only heal if people are in range... then everyone just scatters off in all directions anyway, and quickly die with no heals

seems like everyone wants to be that hero that went off on their own and brought down a big ice solo because the 71 other people werent rdy

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I hate it when the party splits off into two.....

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I'm already "happy" if half the party remains together, because that's not common enough :p

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

... then everyone just scatters off in all directions anyway, and quickly die with no heals.....

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I really don't enjoy that as a healer, I look at the minimap and see all my party members all spread around the map like little confettis. When that happens if I notice another alliance party that seems to act as group, I will just follow and support them instead. If all is completely disorganized, I usually get bored and remain around the central area and base waiting for any random regroupment or buffing the respawning players passing by :|

But I don't think it's because most want to play hero, it's just that if there is no leadership, the group have natural tendancy to get splitted as there is no direction to follow. In the good cases people will care about breaking the ice thingies and regroup at these points and not just roam chaotically hunting players.