Suggestion for future WHM skills

1. I would love for WHM to get their hands on "Haste" skill in Stormblood. Its their original spell to help their party to speed up. It should have same timer (and less cd?) as DRG "Battle Littany". Ik AST alrdy got Arrow. But ugh haste skill fits better for whm imo. And the tik tok sound n spell animation.

2. Also i want WHM to have a second tier for their "raise" such "full-life" to revive a partymember with FULL health. Ofc it will have a CD. Only unique skill to WHM. ( ik it may sound dull but havent u experience someone dies after raise And bcuse if u target the person who got raise instant and cure him it end up curing urself?)

3. Rename "Fluid Aura" to "Water" and add a new skill "Water II". Should work like fluid aura but this time it hits all enemies around and give them heavy.

I dunno feel free to share some thoughts and idea. All i want is WHM to come back and shine.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

bop

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1. Haste fits the "time mage" type more than the "druid" type, imo. Especially with all the clock imagery in Astro spells.

2. Even if White Mage had a full-revive without Weakness on a 300 second cooldown, I doubt it'd be taken over the current meta healers.

3. We need Flood first. D: Also, CC such as Heavy is completely useless in the majority of situations. So... yeah.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

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its so simple to categorize something relateable "child" into "parent". If that make any sense. . Even if Ast the only "time" caster we got in this game.. it doesnt mean it should only have "time Magic". The name "Haste" is very known for a supportive skill for whm thru decades.
I could easily say that "foe requiem" fits more to the caster bcuse its "magic" and bard is no mage. And that skill doesnt boost their dmg. Only casters. BUT it is their supportive skill so why cant whm have haste as their supportive skill for their party.

As whm second main i dont see a problem with that long cd. I dont raise often but there are times when u need a full party member to assamble in right time. Its only a improved raise for whm only.

I was debating my self with "heavy". It was either knock back all enemies nearby or heavy. If a whm goes on cleric stance for water ii and knockback all sourndings i have a feeling the tank would be mad at us xD either that water ii might be a bad idea.

Nothing inherently wrong with WHM having Haste, but I agree with Rennies that time manipulation appears to be more of an AST theme. Aside from the card mechanic, it's one of their only Job-specific themes thus far. So no ticking clocks, gears, etc. for WHM, please. It would need to be along the lines of Presence of Mind, which doesn't offer a timey-wimey explanation. Magic just makes everything better, no details necessary.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

I was debating my self with "heavy". It was either knock back all enemies nearby or heavy. If a whm goes on cleric stance for water ii and knockback all sourndings i have a feeling the tank would be mad at us xD either that water ii might be a bad idea.

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Everyone would be mad at you, not just the tank. A Slow effect would be useful, though (Heavy not so much), as long as it were actually impactful, unlike Shadowflare's pathetic 5%.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Nothing inherently wrong with WHM having Haste, but I agree with Rennies that time manipulation appears to be more of an AST theme. Aside from the card mechanic, it's one of their only Job-specific themes thus far. So no ticking clocks, gears, etc. for WHM, please. It would need to be along the lines of Presence of Mind, which doesn't offer a timey-wimey explanation. Magic just makes everything better, no details necessary.

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there it is again. You guys are thinking inside of the box.
I will say it again. Haste is one of the whm known supportive skill. Ast is new and has arrow. Which you have to draw to get it.
Whm lack utility and i dont care about "themes". Haste doent entirely manipulate time. It just speed up ur movements. Not ticking.

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

there it is again. You guys are thinking inside of the box.
I will say it again. Haste is one of the whm known supportive skill. Ast is new and has arrow. Which you have to draw to get it.
Whm lack utility and i dont care about "themes". Haste doent entirely manipulate time. It just speed up ur movements. Not ticking.

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I don't think you read what you quoted from me. Read again and tell me if I said WHM shouldn't get Haste.

Cull the skill bloat first before you add new spells. Like, are multiple ranks of Stone or Aero really necessary? Make them scale up properly. Cleric Stance could use an overhaul as well.

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Originally Posted by kazeandi

Like, are multiple ranks of Stone or Aero really necessary? Cleric Stance could use an overhaul as well.

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@Stone: Yes. At least Stone is different than Stone II/III. It inflicts heavy while the other two do not. Stone II is redundant at this point though.

@Aero: Yes, most definitely. Aero, Aero II, and Aero III are all very different spells. Besides them all being DoTs and named Aero there is little making them similar. Aero us instant, Aero II is like a regular spell w/DoT, and Aero III is an aoe. Not to mention they all stack together.

@Cleric Stance: What sort of overhaul would you suggest?

IMO, WHM should identify as the progression healer, and SE should make it the best healer in mistake-prone environment.

I like the OP's suggestion of messing around with Raise mechanics. Maybe a trait that allows WHM to raise ppl at high HP/MP percentages, maybe they raise already protected, maybe they raise w/o weakness. After all, WHM arguably has the worst drawbacks of all healers when rezzing, maybe it should get a little more to show for it.

I think it would also be neat if Esune could remove weakness.

^ I think the above would make WHM more useful. A well organized farm group would still pull better runs with AST, but WHM would have a solid place.

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Originally Posted by winsock

IMO, WHM should identify as the progression healer, and SE should make it the best healer in mistake-prone environment.

I like the OP's suggestion of messing around with Raise mechanics. Maybe a trait that allows WHM to raise ppl at high HP/MP percentages, maybe they raise already protected, maybe they raise w/o weakness. After all, WHM arguably has the worst drawbacks of all healers when rezzing, maybe it should get a little more to show for it.

I think it would also be neat if Esune could remove weakness.

^ I think the above would make WHM more useful. A well organized farm group would still pull better runs with AST, but WHM would have a solid place.

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The problem I see with an identity of progression healer is that no one really wants the crutch Job after progression phase is over. I prefer it when a Job's niche isn't "babysitter," or "especially useful if your party sucks, but less desirable once they have their shit together."

I actually do support WHM having a superior Raise ability, but I still want them to end up being competitive with AST, SCH, and future healing Jobs when it comes to high end performance. Since all healing jobs have more or less the same essential tools for keeping parties alive, I'm leaning towards ideas like giving WHM a desirable and exclusive buff of their own and/or further enhancing their supporting DPS function with reduced MP hemorrhaging and continued focus on their burst potential.

While I'm not a fan of continuing to shape their identity around raw healing power since that just translates to more overheal in the current environment, I wouldn't mind seeing WHM get more unique ways to manage party HP such as life-balancing spells and auto-healing wards. This would fit with the theme of WHM rewarding skillful application of abilities with a healthy MP pool and DPS uptime while punishing wasteful healing choices with an MP deficit and a scramble to catch up.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if WHM got Haste but AST and SCH both already have abilities like it (Arrow and Selene's Fey Wind), so it's not really helping differentiate the jobs.
You're idea for a Water II spell is good but please no knockback effect, it would be unbearable. >x>
One change I would like to see is with Stoneskin II. I would suggest turning it into a oGCD ability, instant cast, and have it useable during battle with either a 60 or 90 second cooldown. This will give it mitigation and some utility.

I think one of the main problems with coming up with ideas for unique skills is that WHMs in past FFs have always been the straight-forward healing job, even in games that present additional healers. Even in games were they have buff and debuff spells, the spells are generally pretty straight-forward, increasing or decrease main or secondary stats or mitigating damage, both things AST and SCH already do in this game. They also had status effect spells but almost all of their usual status effects are already in the game as boss mechanics.
For me, I think looking into upping WHM's damage, giving them more ways to heal while in Cleric-Stance, and fixing their MP issues while DPSing is they way to go.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

@Cleric Stance: What sort of overhaul would you suggest?

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Just make it baseline. healer's damage spells scale of MND instead of INT. Cleric stance is a very shitty stance dancing imo, I wouldn't miss it if it were gone

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Originally Posted by Doriann

Just make it baseline. healer's damage spells scale of MND instead of INT. Cleric stance is a very shitty stance dancing imo, I wouldn't miss it if it were gone

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I'd be okay with this if they increased healer attack magic potency commensurately. Simply removing Cleric Stance would be a nerf.

As others have pointed out, this also wouldn't work unless INT and MND were a combined into a single magic stat or unless ACN spells were coded to scale off of the higher of the caster's INT and MND stats.

Not only would it be weird from a balance perspective, as Cynfael pointed out, but I personally ally 5hink it would make playing a healer even easier if they were to remove Cleric Stance and make MND an all-in-one stat for healers.

Not only that but I have not seen a solid reason as to why they should do this outside "Cleric Stance sucks".

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Originally Posted by Doriann

Just make it baseline. healer's damage spells scale of MND instead of INT. Cleric stance is a very shitty stance dancing imo, I wouldn't miss it if it were gone

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In your opinion, but your opinion is just that.

If you can come up with no actually reasons as to why damage scaling off MND and removing CS would be a good thing other than "CS is shitty" then this is a moot discussion as it would be a straight up damage nerf and make the healer role easier than it already is.

Why not give WHM the option to temporarily trade some of that healing power for additional, personal, effects. This allows other classes to keep their hold on their Support but also gives White Mage more utility within itself, and adaptability.

So let's say each "Stance" (Maybe not a "Stance" because those are perpetual) lasts for a full minute with a Cooldown of 3 minutes. (I don't know skills but just some groundwork)

Wind "Stance," reducing overall heal output, but decreasing cast and cooldown times ("Stances" excluded).

Earth "Stance," again, reducing overall heal output, but reduces MP cost of all spells.

Water "Stance," same reduction, yadayada, but gives spells a smash "splash effect" so they get a small AoE around the original target.

Also, I'd think these spells would also effect Damage skills, but since uh- they wouldn't hurt damage, I'd make it so you couldn't cancel them out.

Disclaimer: I'm not a WHM I'm just an AST that can't log in right now. >>''

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

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I wouldn't go for stance as we already have more than enough stances in this game.
However I thought of the whole Elemental enhancing idea for a while.

Here is what I've been thinking.


New trait: Elemental gathering
Every 45sec, you gather one random elemental spirit for a maximum of three different spirit. If you gather an element while 3 are already held, the newest replace the oldest.
Elemental spirit can be consumed to enhance / allow some spells.
Wisp of the appropriate texture and color representing the element float around the WHM a bit like the BLM. By gathering I mean you simply acquire one elemental "charge" every 45sec

new skill
Elemental attunement: Enhance your next spell with the appropriate spirit and consume it in the process. 15sec CD

Earth spirit enhanced / allowed spells
StoneIII : Transform StoneIII into StoneIV for 15sec: 300 potency, apply slow from StoneI
StoneSkinII: Instant, allow the cast of StoneSkinII in fight for free
Stone Veil: Requires one Earth spirit to be cast. All excess heals done by you will shield the target for up to 50% of their maximum Health for 10sec. Last 15sec.


Wind Enhanced spirit / allowed spells
AeroIII : Transforms AeroIII into AeroIV being a combination of AeroI II III
Assize: Engulf player with wind increasing their movement speed by 25% for 15sec.
Ascendant Wind: Requires a wind spirit Every spell cast increase the potency of your next spell by 5%. Last 20sec

Water Enhanced spirit / allowed spells
Holy: For 15sec, Turns Fluid Aura into Waterga which is a ranged AoE spell like gravity. Animation is taken from the water aoe explosion casted by the wizard from in the library.
Asylum: [Can only be activated when Asylum is up] the barrier explodes healing anyone within it for 500 potency
Water spirit: Requires a water spirit. Call forth a water spirit which heal your allies or attack enemies if you are under cleric stance. Last 20sec.

Elemental Surge: Call forth a spirit of nature allowing you to enhance one spell of any element. Last 15sec 120sec CD.

Since every spirit is drawn randomly, you have an average 135sec cooldown on one of these effect at any given time.
You can't fish for an element as the drawing is random. I thought of preventing the player from having access to more than one of the same but I'm sure this would lead to player only consuming one element to always get the desired one every 45sec.
By making the gathering random, you only incite the player to consume at least one spirit every 45sec before a gathering.
Please, not only give your feedback but if you like the core idea, what new spell would like to see using this mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

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http://i.imgur.com/FkjBOq7.gif

I like that, its just different enough from AST to make it viable while also giving WHM a resource management mechanic (it also doesn't add new skills). The only thing that I don't like is the initial trait, and I feel like getting a random element every 45 seconds removes the player interaction (and forces the WHM to use it for efficiency).

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

(it also doesn't add new skills). The only thing that I don't like is the initial trait, and I feel like getting a random element every 45 seconds removes the player interaction (and forces the WHM to use it for efficiency).

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Well It does add some skill.
1 to activate the next empowered spell and I putted Stone Veil. Ascendant Wind, Water Spirit and Elemental Surge as a Joker. Obviously many things could be reworked to remove some skill or merge them etc.
But in fact you get more effective spell since you empower them.

So about the random element, at first I thought "you can only have 1 of each type at any given time".
But this would lead to one thing, let say globally speaking, you would like to have Ascendant Wind as much as possible. Then the ideal solution would be to only consume to wind element. Since you can't have more than 1 of the same, you'd always end up "drawing" the wind element every 45sec. Which is not something I'd wish as a designer.
Then I thought "oh perhaps we could put every element gathering on its own independant cooldown, like every 120sec you get one of every element with each element having its own cooldown." problem is, you'd end up in a situation where you'd force the player to spend its 3 element at least every 120sec which might be counter productive depending on the fight.

This is why I thought, every X sec (I found 30 to be too short, 60 to be too long, 45 seems a good number, but at this point it's purely personal and would require extensive testing obviously)
you get one random element. This way, not only can't you force an element since they're random, but your player get a steady flow of charge making it something usable throughout the course of the fight instead of adding even more spell to the list of "120-180sec"cooldown the WHM has. On the other hand, there is an element of randomness. This is why I added at least effective "healing" boost and "dps" to every element. So that if the fight doesn't require heal and you want to dps, no matter which element is currently available, you can. Some might be better than others, but there wouldn't be a moment where you think "We need more dps but... I only got 3 water spirit... so no dps boost" and vice verca